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PC 1: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg1099718.html#msg1099718Or he could use his "Massive Weapons", which includes a stormbolter (bolters being essentially automatic rocket-propelled grenade launchers, that shouldn't even need a maneuver for most things).
Would need to use grenades that he may or may not carry, and would be significantly disadvantaged by the need to do so.
PC 2: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22358.msg978054.html#msg978054Well, yeah. But he's a got a stunt specifically for it, as you note. Shouldn't be that much of a problem, surely?
Would need something big enough to squish the whole swarm, and would take a penalty to hit when using it.
PC 3: http://silverinsanity.com/~wyvern/johann/Or just turn into an elephant and fall over onto the swarm. A thought. Or, hey, turn into a swarm yourself. As a GM, I'd say that would give him enough of an "area" to attack the majority of the swarm at once. Swarm-to-swarm combat!
Would need to invent a new form on the spot with area-attack capabilities.
So far, these guys haven't used Catches much. They've just hammered through the stress and armour granted by Toughness.Without meaning to be rude, that strikes me more as a problem for them than for this power.
The armour values of toughness powers don't need to stack with this power at all (just apply the powers in the proper order: armour then swarm), but I see little reason not to allow the expanded stress track to apply.Ah, sorry; what I meant was that the Armour from Toughness wouldn't apply if you got your attack past Swarm Body's Catch. Armour is already useless if this power applies to an attack, but I'm considering making it useless (or less powerful) even if this power doesn't apply to an attack (i.e. no bugs with Armour 2 against area attacks).
And I like the penalty-based wording on Amorphous better than the original. It just needs a little bit of adjustment in case someone is grappling you without Might.Reworded.
But I'm still not convinced about the balance of Swarm Body. It might be roughly balanced against ordinary attacks, but it's clearly superior to Toughness against very large attacks. And for those who play above Submerged, that might mean all attacks.Yeah, but... the thing about very large attacks is that they're quite often, well, very large. It's simple enough to describe any evocation as being large enough to zap something that's non-Hulking Size, and even on those swarms large enough to be of Hulking Size, it's two extra shifts to blast the whole zone and render this power moot. Mortals should have a fairly simple time negating it, given the all the Fate points they get (and how well-versed they need to be in Maneuvers; in fact, screw the evocation attack, the wizard should be trapping the target in a Ring Of Fire to keep them condensed enough for a strike).
(For context, I am currently GMing an 18 refresh game. One of my 5 PCs would be pretty well shut down offensively by this power, and two would have semi-serious trouble with it. Supernatural Toughness would be easier for them to deal with by a fair bit.)What is the first PC, and what are the second two?
ie. If you have Multiple Bodies, your primary body can gain up to 4 refresh of other powers for free.Ah, that is true... But then you're effectively not getting a discount on Multiple Bodies, and (when using that power) have to split those 4 "free" points. To be honest, I'm not sure how to remove this as an issue, beyond reminding GMs that supernatural powers should be appropriate to High Concepts, not just slapped on because you have the refresh available.
hmmm...might also want an upgrade that would allow all resulting clones to be 'equals' with the original, such that there effectively is no original, clones being able to produce more clones so long as the total number did not surpass the shared limit, 'points' lost to clone death being reclaimed to a common 'pool' at the appropriate time, rather than to the originalI'll get around to that, I guess.
Hive Mind would seem to interact problematically with the Cashing Out clause of Cloning Blues, causing you to suffer a consequence but denying you the normal resulting FP.Sorry, the Hive Mind thing was written in a rather confusing fashion, so I don't think we're working on the same page. I've reworded it now. How does that look?
Further, I am hesitant of that clause in its own right, as exemplified by a hypothetical area attack hitting yourself and your clone at the same time then taking you out far more easily than it otherwise would. And god forbid you have more than one clone with you.
(just think of what would happen if you had 3 clones with you and get hit by an area attack that would force you and them to each take a mere mild consequence: either you're taken out the next time you get hit, or you're losing clones)
I'd recommend instead giving each clone a default of only one mild consequence (+ those from high skills) of its own, and having upgrades grant more consequences, but then not have those consequences count against those available to you.
No idea whether it's balanced or not, though. Too much rests on how much control you have over the clones.Yeah, that's been a problem throughout. I hate having to go with gut-feeling.
Plus, there's a real lack of things to compare this to. So it's hard to evaluate.
-Given how expensive making one clone is, I think making more than one clone might be too cheap.Being able to have two bodies is an awesome advantage over having just one. You can do research while your copy hits the streets, or the two of you can work together on something, or you can produce a perfect alibi, or you can "skip scenes" while actually remaining in play, etc. Having three is even better (obviously)... but it's not an overwhelming upgrade. Most applications of this power would only really require one additional body, and you don't start producing an overwhelming combat advantage until you've got 4 or more of you running around, at which point you need to be at 12 refresh (i.e. Submerged + two Major Milestones) with no other powers to still be a PC. Of course, you could get a discount through Split Skills and Split Power; but splitting your Skills or Powers (assuming you have refresh to blow on the latter) across 4+ people likely won't result in anything threatening.
-Right now there is no mechanical reason not to take Distant Recall if you have Hive Mind. I suggest that you reduce the cost of Hive Mind to 1 and make Distant Recall a prereq to avoid false choices.The problem here is that they should be separate choices (not every hivemind is going to be pulling a Ganger on us), but that there's no real reason to take Distant Recall if you have Hive Mind. Or at least, no reason that's worth -1 refresh. Therefore, I've switched the discount to Distant Recall, to make the "you can take this for free" thing a bit more clear.
-Maybe the ability to absorb memories should be an optional extra. I don't think that every clone-maker can do that.Mmmmaybe. I can't think of anywhere that I'd rule that to be the case, though.
-I'm pretty sure that Split Powers needs some editing. It currently gives 4 refresh for nothing if you have no other powers.No, it doesn't.
-Right now, it looks as though you could take Split Skills and Split Powers and so reduce the cost of the power below 0. That's not good.Good catch! Fixed with one final addition to Split Power, I believe.
Incidentally, the Shen example is pretty excellent. Thumbs up.Thanks! It only struck me that the power could be used for them after I'd more-or-less finished writing it; I was thinking of "big guy budding off lots of little guys" and the Shen (initially, at least) seemed to have that backwards.
But on the other hand, this power does leave some stuff out. For example, grappling a swarm is pretty easy if this is all they've got to represent swarm-ness.I feel like that should be a separate power, to be honest, to allow greater flexibility as to what this power represents. A vine-demon could have Swarm Body on the basis that each feeler destroyed is just an insignificant fraction of its form, and you need to hit all of them to do serious damage; but it wouldn't be automatically better at creeping under doorways.
Also, I consider Physical Immunity to be drastically undercosted. Balancing against it is probably unwise.I originally costed this on gut-feeling, then compared it to Supernatural Toughness (on the one hand, outperforms in terms of raw damage reduction at hits of 4+ stress. on the other hand, does not increase stress track. on the third hand, has a really simple Catch), and then to Physical Immunity. I think it's alright where it is, to be honest. Each time I consider raising it to [-4] I wince over the Catch.
PS: There's a thread on the Resources Board for custom powers.Oh? I thought that was for archived stuff?
This would work pretty well for a custom big bad.I'm glad you think so!
I'd be a bit afraid of players complaining about how their Inhuman Strength and big honking sword is worthless, but that's just the way these things go.That's kind of what the power's for, though; the scene where the monster turns into a swarm of rats, and all the heavily-armed goodies can do is stomp their feet and hope to crush enough of him to take him down.
Also, I would be very careful about allowing this power to fall into the hands of PC's - bad guys are outnumbered by the players far more often than the other way around.Well, as with any supernatural power, they'd need a good reason to have it. And if it seems they are abusing it, a solid breath-weapon or invocation (or hell, a riot-hose) should put a crimp on their day. No reason for the baddies to be stupid, after all.
I had the same reaction originally, but it's actually a +7 point power with a -4 point catch folded into it.Precisely. It's a version of Physical Immunity that can be ground through over time, and has a blindingly obvious and very easy-to-access Catch.