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Messages - Kordeth

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16
DFRPG / Re: Question about Aspects placed using maneuvers.
« on: July 14, 2010, 11:17:06 PM »
If a maneuver is used to create an aspect it only impacts on play if a fate point is spent (beyond the initial tag) correct? So to use an example from the book if I take cover I am actually no harder to hit unless unless I spend a fate point?

As luminos said, there are other factors to consider, but bear in mind that to a large extent this is by design. FATE is designed to encourage fast-paced action full of cool stunts and neat tricks, not using the same single tactic over and over and over. That's why you get to tag the aspect for free the first time, to encourage you to pull action-movie-like stunts like running from cover to cover or following up the old "throw dirt in his eyes" with a "pull the rug out from under him."

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I Like the fate system but this seems a bit odd and I can see some really odd situations developing, like blinded characters fighting normally until someone spends a fate point.

Correction: When fighting a blinded guy, you only get a distinct advantage against him when you decide his blindness is narratively important (i.e. when you spend a Fate point). When it comes time for him to actually fight, the GM can and should compel that "Blinded" aspect liberally. Think Han Solo at the beginning of Return of the Jedi to see what a "Blinded" character looks like in a FATE fight scene.

17
DFRPG / Re: -Refresh for skills?
« on: July 14, 2010, 08:18:39 PM »
You could also take a variant on True Shapeshifting and describe it as "accessing muscle memory" for your physical skills. You know, something like "400 years ago I served with a Swiss mercenary troupe, and I still know a thing or two about pike-fighting," and suddenly you bump Weapons up at the cost of some other skill. I'd maybe kock a -1 off the Refresh since you aren't also getting the ability to actually change shape.

18
DFRPG / Re: The Future of the Line
« on: July 14, 2010, 08:11:43 PM »
I'm assuming you mean the Nevernever when you say that.

Pretty sure he meant Nevermore, the sample setting of Baltimore in the back of Your Story.

19
DFRPG / Re: Taking Social Consequences as Backlash?
« on: July 13, 2010, 06:53:31 PM »
I guess the question currently at hand is how much an attacker can dictate the actions of the target.  The way I read the rules, the attacker can dictate WHAT the target does, within a pretty wide margin of reason, but not HOW.

Correct, with the additional caveat that you cannot dictate restrictions on the target's actions outside the venue of the conflict. If you take someone out mentally, you can't say "and he can't try to persuade anyone else to listen to him" because persuading people to listen is a social action. If you take someone out socially you can't say "and he can't try to figure out the riddle," because figuring out the riddle is a social action. And if you take someone out socially, you can't say "and he doesn't punch me in the face," because that's a physical action.

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In general I would ask the winner what he wants the target to do, then ask the loser if there were any possible reason he would do that.  If there is any possibility of the loser of a conflict doing what the winner dictates, the loser does that.  Only in cases where it would be totally out of character for the loser to perform that action would I ask for the winner to moderate or change the requested declaration.  The loser still gets to choose the specific way the outcome happens, of course.

That's how I think being Taken Out works.  Essentially, if the winner of a conflict wants the loser to not escalate into a physical conflict, the loser complies unless that is an absolute impossibility in his mind.

No, that's not how being taken out works at all. The winner dictates what happens, not what doesn't happen, and the loser dictates how. The winner can say "you embarrass yourself and leave the room," and the loser gets to decide how that happens. Maybe the loser runs out sobbing, or maybe he just stands up stiffly and stalks out. The loser is absolutely, totally, 100% free to then come back into the room later and open fire on you, or punch you in the face, or whatever. "You don't attack me" is not a valid "taken out" result.

20
DFRPG / Re: Taking Social Consequences as Backlash?
« on: July 13, 2010, 05:59:35 PM »
Very true, though what about other methods of attack besides Intimidation.  I mean we also have Presence, Rapport, Deceit, and possibly even Empathy, though that's probably more useful for assessing Aspects to tag.

Also, what if the outcomes you're aiming for are things like YOU LIKE ME, GRUDGING RESPECT, YOU WANT TO HELP ME, I REMIND YOU OF YOU, or any other version of gaining reputation points?

Can still end with something like "Hell, kid, I like you. Shame I gotta put you in the ground so you don't interfere with my business. We coulda made a helluva team, you and me."

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Even with Intimidation, I can see an outcome of YOU THINK I'M PLUCKY AND FUNNY.  I remember some scenes form movies where the hero ends up drinking buddies with someone even after throwing a few punches.

I can see that outcome too. I can also think of plenty of people who are plucky and funny who I still want to punch in the face, and I'm not a ruthless mob boss/vampire/Sidhe Lord/other assorted types of bad guys that are often the antagonists in a Dresden Files story. Sure, they might decide they like you enough to not throw a punch, but it's ultimately their decision whether or not to escalate to physical violence. The most you could do to stop it would be to try to initiate a compel on that YOU LIKE ME aspect to prevent them from escalating, but they can buy that off.

21
DFRPG / Re: (Rules Questions) Negative Refresh: Roleplay & Mechanics
« on: July 10, 2010, 06:25:12 PM »
I'm sorry, I was skimming my previous post and referenced the wrong page. My bad.



I meant YS p. 351. Specifically:

"...as truly monstrous opponents will often start the game with no fate points due to negative refresh and require “on-camera” compels before receiving them."

Though looking at it again, I guess that's less definitive than I was remembering it as. Maybe you're right...

It's rather more explicit on p. 333, in the sidebar "What's the Base?"

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Assume that any main NPC is going to have a base refresh equal to a PC (accounting for milestones and the like). If you spend over that, they have no fate points when they start play.

No fate points. Not negative fate points.

22
DFRPG / Re: Taking Social Consequences as Backlash?
« on: July 10, 2010, 06:15:46 PM »
Oh yes, I see you're correct.  Still, getting Taken Out socially or even Conceding does give a decisive advantage to the winner of the conflict.  If the Social attacker Takes Out his opponent, he gets to decide what the opponent does, and that may include not continuing to fight.

Well... no, it can't, really. See YS203:

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Generally speaking, getting taken out applies only to the venue of the attack in question. For instance, getting taken out socially means a character has lost his cool and is totally flustered, but he may still be able to punch someone or run away. Getting taken out physically might mean the character is physically incapacitated, but he may still interact socially in some way (though unconsciousness and death do tend to put a small crimp in such things).

So yeah, if you take someone out in a social conflict you can define that as "he flees the scene," but nothing prevents him from walking out the front door and then hurling a trash can through the window as the start of a physical conflict.

23
DFRPG / Re: Multiple catches
« on: July 08, 2010, 07:57:26 PM »
(Does aliminium count as cold iron btw?).

No. Aluminum is a completely different element.

24
DFRPG / Re: Two Questions: Thaumaturgy Time and Workspaces
« on: June 26, 2010, 12:05:13 AM »
1) Is there any guidance anywhere on how long Thaumaturgical rituals should take? Is it just arbitrarily determined by the GM? Also, is it possible to make up Complexity gaps by taking extra time (as per the sidebar on pg. 316)?

"A minute or more," according to YS261. It seems, though, like that's the minimum time for the general ritual and prep work--once you get down to summoning up the energy and channeling it into the spell, each step of the process is one exchange if you're measuring in combat time.

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2) It seems like making Workspace rating equal to Resources minus two makes them next to useless unless you have Resources 2 or higher. Declarations have a base difficulty of Mediocre, after all.

That's the default level for a general-purpose workspace that you're assumed to have accumulated without even trying. It's not terribly hard to afford a better one with a Resources roll plus a few invoked/tagged Aspects if you're willing to put a little work into it, and you can have a slightly better workspace by limiting its focus.

25
DFRPG / Re: Damage vs. Bypass: Expanding the Catch
« on: June 24, 2010, 05:34:18 PM »
Sorry, I'm not really following that.  A red court vampire chucked into a sunny court yard doesn't have the option to pay a fate point to avoid bursting into flame, it bursts into flame. 

It can pay a Fate point to, say, quickly skitter under a nearby parked car before it takes more than a light scorching or crash through a wall on the opposite side of the Courtyard to find some shade, though.

26
DFRPG / Re: Damage vs. Bypass: Expanding the Catch
« on: June 24, 2010, 05:25:31 PM »
Nah, taking physical damage from normal contact with otherwise-innocuous substances is already covered as a compel on the critter's high concept. No need to adjust catch costs.

27
DFRPG / Re: Tech
« on: June 24, 2010, 05:24:03 PM »
Thanks Kordeth, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed most of the books, but it's been a while and I don't have the photographic memory stunt unfortunately. Still, it's a little odd that it works that way, I wonder what the limits are seeing as particles of dirt and so forth obviously don't break it. In game terms I guess it just breaks when something manoeuvre worthy happens to it.

Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying. :)

And don't worry, I don't have the photographic memory stunt either, I just finished rereading the series last week.

28
DFRPG / Re: Compels on consequence generated aspects.
« on: June 24, 2010, 05:19:18 PM »
Compels should be used for a lot of stuff representing how the aspect is holding them back, but a certain degree of it should be done without compels just be following basic story logic.  If your character has a broken arm, he can't use it to shoot a gun compel or not.  It would be nice for the GM to give you a fate point when this significantly hampers you, but just because he doesn't, doesn't mean your broken arm is suddenly functional enough to have a full range of uses.

In fact, trying to shoot a gun with your broken arm (and failing, thus losing an action) should be considered a self-compel and the GM should be reminded to give you a Fate point for it. Ditto shooting with your off-hand, if it comes with a penalty.

29
DFRPG / Re: Tech
« on: June 24, 2010, 05:12:06 PM »
Out of curiosity, where is everyone getting the rules for magic circles? Or is it purely speculation based on the books? If we treat a magical circle as a threshold (and bear in mind Bob say's we should worry about magic circles at all YS230) then it only affects supernatural power. If the circle itself is damaged (the chalk is rubbed out, the salt line is broken etc) then the circle doesn't exist any more sure, but a metal circle would need to be damaged for it to break surely? And I don't think a spider or a mosquito would be able to break the average circle at all.

A physical object or being crossing the boundary of a magic circle breaks it, even if the circle itself isn't marred. See for example Harry and the film cannister in Storm Front.

30
DFRPG / Re: Magic Circles for fun and profit
« on: June 24, 2010, 12:54:40 AM »
Demons don't have 'free will' in quite the sense mortals do, but anything with a name or sense of individual identity has more than enough individual agency to break a Circle.

I don't think that's accurate; Harry uses a magic circle to trap Toot-toot in Storm Front, after all--and in that case it's pretty explicitly a magic circle, not a ward. The language used to describe what Harry does is basically identical to the language every other time Harry creates a circle. Later in the same book, when he breaks the Shadowman's circle, he explicitly points out that it was because it was an act of "human will" or something similar.

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And no, there's no evidence getting out of a Circle would do anything of the kind. Now, if he was surrounded by a circle once freed from the wards...that might drop his Ectoplasm and shunt him back to the Nevernever, but only if they were being maintained externally. I wouldn't bet against Chauncy having some internal energy reserves against such an eventuality.

I was referring to stepping into a circle, assuming such a feat could be accomplished without breaking it.

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