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Messages - Moriden

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16
DFRPG / Re: Sponcered Magic ideas.
« on: March 05, 2011, 08:19:58 PM »
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Where is the 'standard package' detailed? I've looked in the supernatural powers and spellcasting section, but I can't find it. I'm wondering if this is something added after the pre-order version?
Your story pg 287-292


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EDIT: And another question... If a character already has evocation and accepts Seelie magic, the cost for Seelie Magic is then [-3]? [-1] for tacking on the power source to Evocation and an additional [-2] for the Seelie 'ritual' component?

Base cost for sealie magic is 4, you get a discount of one for already having evocation bringing it to -3.

17
DFRPG / Re: Sponcered Magic ideas.
« on: March 05, 2011, 08:04:02 PM »
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I was using just Channeling as a zero-level to determine the actual cost of sponsored magic itself, which is apparently

    * ?

You get what you pay for, minimum one.

18
I think your looking at two different levels. what i will refer to as mutations and permanent alterations.

Mutations, are an instantaneous affect that through damage alters a part of the persons body these should be fairly simple, relatively permanent on a human, and are in the grey area. Examples would include

Fatter  curse the person in such a way that they dont absorb nutrients properly, thus they grow fatter.       
Complexity ~6 to beat there defense roll, +x to cause a consequence which will be the spells duration.
Skinnier  As above           

New face   This will *not* be pretty. you'd be looking at things along the lines of breaking there nose, useing blunt trauma to reshape the skull ect., you'll need an extreme consequence.                   
 
New fingerprints  Easiest to simply remove them entirely via fire.               
 
New hair You could probably cause it to grow more or less, or make it white, anything more is verry probably a law violation.                     

Permanent Alterations
12 complexity to go from the standard thaumaturgical starting point of a day to a mortal lifetime. So thats your minimum. You will need another 30 to ensure it works, as all of these require extensive reworking of a persons body and thus invoke the section in your world that says that altering another person is the same thing as killing and remaking them.


19
DFRPG / Re: How could I build this?
« on: March 04, 2011, 11:56:08 PM »
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What sort of payment would be legitimate?  And would the spirit sponsor be like an evocation broker that would go out and find the appropriate element spirit?

Simply removing the debt mechanic entirely is a fairly balanced decision. you loose about as much as you gain. and then you dont have to justify it as coming from some sentient source.

20
DFRPG / Re: How could I build this?
« on: March 04, 2011, 11:51:51 PM »
I would agree with bitterpill, mechanically the easiest way is to just use sponsored magic for it. the themes of it is "whatevers in the circle"

21
DFRPG / Re: Ritual complexity
« on: March 04, 2011, 11:04:20 PM »
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You don't ever get thaumaturgy JUST at evocation's speeds.  You get it with evocation's speed AND METHODS.  Meaning that you're then casting it as you would any other evocation.

I am aware of that. A concise definition of what that means however is not in the book. it was also only one of the several questions i posed.

Though on this point what exactly do you think that means.

Duration = one exchange per shift, or using the thaumaturgical time chart?
Wards or blocks?
Stress hit or not?
Control roll once or multiple rounds until you reach the complexity cap?

Several of those are obvious a few aren't.

22
DFRPG / Re: Ritual complexity
« on: March 04, 2011, 10:41:08 PM »
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fastest of spells taking a
minute or more..."

How long is an exchange in combat? 3 seconds, a minute, ive seen systems that span that range.

What if you have thaum at evo speeds from sponsored magic? can you then just say that you need to have the complexity and can cast it it "combat rounds?

The book is tragically vague on these details.

23
DFRPG / Re: Sponcered Magic ideas.
« on: March 04, 2011, 10:38:48 PM »
I'm not really sure how much thaumaturgical use you'd really get out of "fire". Summoning fire spirits probably, any kind of large scale fire attack ritual. I cant really think of anything else.

Admittedly the example is finicky due to Ren's request for it to give you "just channeling". it seems to me that the sponsored magic mechanics work best when they modify thaumatirgy as opposed to modifying evocation/channeling.

24
DFRPG / Re: Sponcered Magic ideas.
« on: March 04, 2011, 09:22:36 PM »
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Channeling [X] thaumaturgical grouping with evocation's speed and methods would be the most obvious benefit
ie. what the book calls the 'shell game'

Using the current iteration of the system we've come up with you'd be looking at.

Ability to take sponsor debt to invoke an Aspect for spellcasting without spending a Fate Point [free]
Access to Channeling for sponsor's element [1]
Specific types of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [1]

With the standard reduction if you also have thaum/evocation.

It would be described as something like
Dresdenian Pyromancy  
Having tapped into the terrifyingly great wellspring of fire magic that is Dresdenian Pyromancy you can cast fire magics with unparalleled scope and breath.
System
The character may use Dresdenian Pyromancy as the element of fire for the purposes of evocation, as well as cast any form of thaumaturgy that incorporates fire as an integral element with evocations speed and methods. The character also receives 4 focus item slots if he does not already have thuamaturgy or evocation, reduce a appropriate if he does.

As to cost your looking at something like 2, possibly more depending on how highly you value the focus item slots. Personally using this example i would reduce the focus item slots it gives to 2, give it a base cost of 2. explicitly state that the 2 focus item slots are the ones you'd receive from evocation, meaning that you only get a -1 to this power if you latter pick up evocation and call it a day.



25
DFRPG / Re: 1st Law Breaker Stunt
« on: March 04, 2011, 08:52:57 PM »
Yes. i also permit sociopathic characters to get the stunts if they'd like regardless of weather or not they have yet broken said law.

26
DFRPG / Re: Hypothetical First Law/Second Law Problem
« on: March 04, 2011, 08:48:20 PM »
I would say you've got a couple of different sceneries

1] The persons mind is permanently gone. the transforming character gets lawbreaker, the killing character does not.

2] the persons mind is not yet completely gone. Both get lawbreaker.

3] The persons mind is permanently gone, the pc tries to turn him back. The one who first changed him gets
lawbreaker, the one turning him back does not but will probably mess it up as biomancy is hard.

4]  the persons mind is not yet completely gone, the pc tries to turn him back. The one who first changed him gets
lawbreaker, the one turning him back also gets lawbreaker.

27
DFRPG / Re: Ritual complexity
« on: March 04, 2011, 08:31:34 PM »
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Lore plus appropriate specializations and foci, which really should be in the range of 3-9 or 10 unless we're playing in a high powered game

Lore 0-5    Assuming any caster will have a minimum of 3
Focus item 0-5  A character who wants to do this could easily have a 2-3 without going overboard
Sponsored magic bonus 0-1   Expensive if this is all you want but stacks on top of normal bonuses.
Specializations 0-3  one from thaum, can go to 2 with one level of refinement
Fate point 0-2    
Sponsor debt 0-2
magic circle declaration 2+  takes one exchange?

3-19+ complexity with no preparation

lets say the same charecter with thaumaturgy -3, refinement -1, sponsored magic place of power -2 [-3 if don't have to physically be there],
focus items: 2 complexity, 2 control
Specializations: Complexity +2, Control +1  [+1 to both from place of power]
Discipline and lore 5

Without using a fate point magic circle or sponsor debt has complexity 10 with no prep. And can channel 5 shifts of power an exchange. you could easily push this to 15 and 3 exchanges when necessary. Thus looking at a complexity 10 ritual in 2 "exchanges" usable an infinite number of time with zero prep.

Now is this an abuse of the system or working as intended?


28
DFRPG / Re: Sponcered Magic ideas.
« on: March 04, 2011, 08:11:40 PM »
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So if it was JUST channeling the cost would only be [-2]?

What *exactly do you want it to do ren? if literally the only thing you want is channeling for x element then just buy channeling.

29
DFRPG / Ritual complexity
« on: March 04, 2011, 06:45:49 AM »
I've noticed a large disparity in peoples opinions on this matter so out of curiosity id like to see what people think.

What complexity level do you believe that a skilled character should be able to accomplish quickly?
1] <5
2] Lore +modifiers [3-15]
3] Assessments are easy! 30+


Do you think that as the complexity level increases the time to do the ritual increases as well, and if so is this represented by the necessity of getting more assessments or a base increase in time spent?

Finally how long do you think a ritual that is under the complexity you can commonly handle, ie <lore, should take?
1] Exchanges
2] minutes
3] st whim

30
When i run i make sure that at least one character gets compelled every scene. I've found that making fate points readily available makes players much more comfortable with spending them for declarations, and gives them a much stronger feeling of helping to tell the story.

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