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Messages - Clotho19

Pages: 1 [2]
16
DFRPG / Re: Hedge Witch/Wizard Template
« on: June 25, 2010, 08:30:40 PM »
Quote
I think it should have a base of Ritual with the option of going up to Thaumaturgy. Not all Hedge Witchhes are quite that powerful. Yeah, that overlaps with Minor Talent, but it likely should.

I didn't because possing ritual is covered under minor talents, its a -2 power and minor talents sometimes have a -2 power. It is a different template, and in my view knowing a few spells dealing with a specific area is a minor talent, this template is something that a minor talent with ritual could grow into, rather than just becoming a focused practioner, which is why i made it. I feel it covers the missing piece concering those who practice magic, but don't have the power to do anything without ritual, and at the same time can cast lots of different spells, rather than one's focused on one area of magic. The character in my game who is playing one, started out as a minor talent having ritual (Wards) -2, grow into this template by upgrading her ritual to Thaumaturgy and maybe could grow into a wizard in time, either way it works for me. Hell there is even an example Kim Delaney (OW130), she possess Thaumaturgy and no other power.

17
DFRPG / Hedge Witch/Wizard Template
« on: June 25, 2010, 03:18:46 PM »
I created this template because I felt there was something missing in the low level spell casters Templates. I felt that while the Focused Practitioner is well and good for some low level practitioners, it neglected to show those who have more well rounded mystical portfolio, but lack the ability to use evocation or Channeling.

Hedge Witches and Hedge Wizards are quite skilled at numerous spells and areas of magic, but they take time to actually cast their spells. This is reflected in their ability to use Thaumaturgy just like Wizards or Sorcerers but they lack the power or skill to actually wield Evocations.
Many Hedge Witches and Hedge Wizards colour their magic and spells with some alternative religious feel, being that many are also Wiccans, New Age believers, practitioners of religions like Sanitaria or Voodoo etc. This means that for them to cast their spells they need the trappings of their faith and their beliefs, for example most Wiccans have an altar which they practice their magic, including statues of various deities and other magical trappings like a pentacle, Athame, incense etc.

Musts: A Hedge Witch or Hedge Wizard must take a High Concept that declares his or her nature as a Hedge Witch or Hedge Wizard, such as MEMBER OF THE ORDO LEBES or SOCCER MUM/WITCH. In addition the Character must take the following supernatural power:

Thaumaturgy [–3] (YS page 181)

See the power description for more details.

Options: Hedge Witches/Wizards may take the Sight (-1) which would function the same as for Wizards and Sorcerers, but this is rare. In addition, they may take Refinement (-1), once per play, but once again this is very rare. It should be noted that they can never take Evocation, if they want to purchase Evocation they must upgrade to Wizard or Sorcerer.

Important Skills: Conviction (YS page 124), Discipline (YS page 127), Lore (YS page 134).

Minimum Refresh Cost: -3

From the Casefiles: Kim Delaney (OW130). Also Anna Ash, (OW103), simply replaces Rituals with Thaumaturgy and raises her refresh to -3. In addition Charity Carpenter when she was younger was a Hedge Witch.

Tell me what you think about this template :-)

18
DFRPG / Playing as one of the Fae, Advanced Template
« on: June 25, 2010, 03:15:43 PM »
I am curious has anyone else allowed their players to play as one of the Fae and not just a changeling. In my game i cam up with an interesting way to allow my characters play as one and still keep the changeling template useful.

Okay should explain some of the back story. In our game, not all the Fae are soulless. Some fae over close proximity to humans gain a soul. It was said in the books, when bob was explaining about soulfire that humans are constantly giving bits of their souls away to people who are close to them, and in our game this is why toot has gotten bigger and more powerful, because harry unconsciously is giving him pieces of his soul. After awhile, the little pieces grow to the point that the Fae itself has its own soul, albeit a very different soul than that of a human, which is why a soulgaze doesn't work, as their souls are beyond comprehension to human wizards. While i am sure a great deal of people are gonna say but the books say.... firstly let me say this is our game, and we are free to introduce what ever elements we like, and secondly, harry could be wrong, after all he doesn't know everything, he is constantly learning in the books that he what he believes may not be the truth, i.e. that no wizard of the white council is allowed to break the laws, than we find out bout the blackstaff. Of course, in our game it isn't common knowledge either, more an unconfirmed rumour outside of the courts. After all, if the council admitted that some of the Fae had souls, than they would have to wonder what else had souls, and what else would be protected under the laws etc. In our game, it was a big revelation that some of the Fae had souls, and the wizard in our group has decided not to share this information with the white council for this very reason, which is putting him in a lot of turmoil, as he is a staunch supporter of the council and is making great for character development :-)

Furthermore, all the Fae who have souls are Sidhe, this is basically what makes them Sidhe. Possessing a souls allows them a measure of more freedom, but not much more, i mean they are still bound by all the rules of being one of the Fae and being part of the courts, but like lea they are the ones who look for the wiggle room even in orders from their queens. Also in our game, their are a group of Sidhe, known as the Daoine Sidhe (mentioned briefly in changes i tink) who were the original to gain a soul and can actually reproduce their own kind, meaning that their children are born with a soul. Mab was one of the first Daoine Sidhe and this is why her daughter Maeve was born a Sidhe, as she is a Daoine Sidhe.

Okay, enough of a back story. In our game, all characters start out as changelings if they want to become a Fae, i don't allow anyone to start as a Fae from the start of the game, even in submerged games, not just because of the refresh, but also because it would make the changeling template pointless if they could play as a Fae from the start. In our game, once you have gained all the powers of your species or made the choice to become a full Fae, you become an npc. However, after awhile, and after the refresh level has risen, the character may become a Sidhe of their species, by gaining pieces of a soul from contact with their old friends, and become playable again. If the character hasn't become a Sidhe, or the refresh has risen enough to allow them to be playable, they still remain an npc. I have allowed one character to play as a Changeling who's mother was a Daoine Sidhe, which means when she chooses to become a full Fae, she will still have a soul and the freedom that all Sidhe possess in our game, but have told her even if refresh has risen enough for her to be playable when she chooses, she will have to sit out for a bit to reflect time spent in the Faerie Courts, learning about court life, and she seems fine with that.

Now my question is has anyone else allowed their players to play as a Full Fae, and if yes how did you work it? And also has anyone else introduced any templates that cannot be purchased at character creation, rather must be gained later on in the game, advanced templates i call em. The only other advanced template i have is the Valkyrie Template, and would love to know if anyone else has made any as well?

19
DFRPG / Re: Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 23, 2010, 01:09:03 AM »
Ha, i wish. How bout, when am done making the rules shall post it online here as a pdf, and anyone willing to add info or suggestions for it, shall include those too

20
DFRPG / Re: Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 23, 2010, 12:45:39 AM »
Ha, okay i stand corrected :-D

21
DFRPG / Re: Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 22, 2010, 07:38:27 PM »
"5. No, actually, it's not. Echoes of the Beast only adds a single power like that, and for werewolves it needs to be tracking by scent. They have to get night-sight elsewhere."

This is what it says under echoes of the beast.

Effects:
Beast Senses. Whether in human form or
otherwise, your senses are strongly tuned in
a fashion fitting a particular type of beast
(you must specify the senses when you
take the ability, based on what the beast is
known to have). Whenever it seems reasonable
that you’d have some sort of beast-born
advantage of the senses (for example, a keen
sense of smell while making an Alertness or
Investigation roll), you get a +1 on the roll.

As you can see that states you must specify the senses, not a single sense so the rules their do no stat that it is on sense, plus under echoes of the beast another effect is

Beast Trappings. You are able to do one minor
thing that normal people can’t do, related to
the abilities of your beast-kin. This might
be tracking by scent (for a wolf or other
predator), finding your way around while
blind or in total darkness (like a bat), or
hiding in plain sight (like a chameleon). This
ability works like an extra skill trapping (see
page 120) for the skill of your choice.

From that you get the werewolves ability of smell and ability to track, so the heightened senses is completely covered under echoes of the beast.

And you were right about half demons will try pricing their powers later and shall put up a copy of what have done for the magic system and some mechanics for shaman powers. Hope that will help :-)

22
DFRPG / Re: Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 22, 2010, 07:26:29 PM »
Oh and forgot to say, i can't wait for the Savannah book either, gonna be amazing as Kelley has said the next three books are gonna be all from Savannahs point of view :-D Plus there is the limited editon counterfeit magic from the point of view of paige, and the primer which will tell us all bout the supernatural world, already ordered mine, cos they both limited editon, if you haven't ordered yours yet here are the links to em for the primer http://dabelbrothers.com/otherworld/ and for the counterfeit magic http://www.subterraneanpress.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=armstrong02&Category_Code=B&Product_Count=3

23
DFRPG / Re: Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 22, 2010, 07:13:10 PM »
"Have you figured out how to work on the science magic yet that was introduced No Humans Involved (Women of the Otherworld, Book 7) and a current theme in the 'Darkest Powers' novels"

I rink you are misunderstanding things a bit. Its has been stated in Stolen that humans can learn some of the weaker spells, and the humans involved were only able to cast the weaker spells except for may, but that may have been due to her having supernatural blood from a race such as nymphs or elves who have lost their powers, rather than being pure human. And the ones in the darkest powers series aren't humans, they are supernaturals experimenting on other supernaturals, not humans expertimenting.

24
DFRPG / Re: Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 22, 2010, 03:48:47 PM »
Thanks for your comment and shall just explain some of the reasons i did my template as such. First off the spell casting, the reason i decided to do it as -4 instead of going with the whole Evocation and Thaumaturgy, is pretty simple. Witches and Socerers generally speaking do all their magic quick and dirty, i mean sure there are a few rituals mentioned in the books, but they are few, and generally speaking their magic system seems a lot closer to that of Sponsered Magic, i.e able to do Thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation, i mean they can summon demons with an incantation, compared to harry having to do a ritual to do it, so i feel making them purchase full Thaumaturgy would be a bit of a waste, but than again much of the magic system will have to be redone. currently working on it myself and am very open to suggestions from anyone :-) And to your mention of witches and socerers learning each others spells, i included that, i just said witches specialize in witch magic and vice versa, just because they specialize does not mean they can't learn the other spells.

I know about the ritual being optional, but felt should include it so people know its available, but it is optional.

For shamans, i thought much of it was self explanatory, i mean astral projection, is pretty much self explanatory, but guess should but it as when in astral form you are basically have a spirit form, albeit, you can not see ghosts in that form just your ayami, which is something kelley has said in her forums, and cannot interact with the physical world, neither can most ghosts either, dead volo half-demons being the general exception. An ayami is basically a spirit guide, and the shaman senses are easily done with the rules for supernatural senses.

Half Demons, mere -3? Whats wrong with -3. I the pricing of the power doesn't suggest its weak, just that its limited, just like half-demon powers. Look at Troy, i mean his tempestra powers sound cool, but even the best tempestra can only effect the weather in minor ways. And adams power over fire seems cool, but he is a one trick pony, an impressive trick, but still one trick. I will admit the pricing is off, but i want the demon powers to be one purchase, not several purchases, so am trying to make it so that the demon power levels are all -1 to -3, maybe could raise it to -2 to -6 if you tink that would be better.

I do like your write up on werewolves, but what you said about seeing in the dark, thats covered under echoes of the beast (Beast Senses).

I like your vampires do, i tink thats far closer to the way they are presented in the books, and has actually made me realise both of us forgot about one of their powers. Vampires have the ability to track, not by scent but more by an inate ability to track, and sense whether someone would be a suitable victim, like the way cassandra would know if someone was near death because she prefered to fee of those who were already close to death, or araons way to sense those who would do harm, because he preffered to feed off drug dealers, thugs, murderers etc. Perhaps some variation on supernatural senses?

And know i didn't forgot druids or voudouns or any of the other minor races. They are jsut harder to stat as we have far less informtaion about them. This is all the information i have on Druids that kelley has stated so far, A druid's power lies in the invocation gods and goddesses, traditionally from the Celtic pantheon. Though these deities refer to themselves as gods, they act more as a subset of demons. Like demons, they each have a specialty, different methods for rewarding their acolytes. A druid can pick a single deity, and later switch, either discarding the original, or keeping his or her options open. Druids can offer sacrifices to multiple deities as well, but will not have as great a success with them as they would if they were offering their full devotion. A strong bond between druid and deity, cultivated by years of devotion and sacrifices, results in an almost guardian-angel like relationship. A druid sacrificing to multiple deities results in a more Jack-of-all-trades, master of none routine.
Abilities:

    * Deity invocation - Druids are one trick ponies, but that trick is a doozy. The specifics vary from deity-to-deity and druid-to-druid, depending on the sacrifices provided, the established relationships, and the whim and whimsy of the deity in question.

      Deities don't directly manifest. Rather, they summon some sort of element relating to their area of worship that will aid their disciple. For example, if a druid worshipped Rosmerta, one of her aspects is as a goddess of fire and warmth. So if that druid was lost in the wild, Rosmerta could provide the druid with a fire to warm her through the night. Alternatively, if the druid was in danger from some foe, and was a loyal disciple, perhaps Rosmerta would summon a wall of flames to distract her druid's opponents, allowing her to escape, or even inflinct damaging burns on said opponents.

Weaknesses:

    * Vocal invocation - Deities must be summoned by verbal invocation. A gagged druid is a powerless druid.
    * Free will - Even the most loyal diety could have a change of heart. Nothing is ever guaranteed in a druid/deity relationship.

So in a way its a very limited form of sponsered magic. Voudouns i would paint the same, but as having a loa in place of a celtic detity.

Stating Crossbreeds would be pretty simple, just combine two templates, though certain templates don't combine,and even if they do they often lose most of their powers. Note, vamps and werewolves cannot crossbreed.

Stating things like Kitsune and the creatures in Frostbitten, wouldn't be to hard to do either, will attempt that later.

25
DFRPG / Kelley Armstrong's Otherworld
« on: June 22, 2010, 02:37:37 PM »
I read a post earlier that was tlking about the numerous things that DFRPG could handle, and one mentioned Kelley Armstrong's Women of the Otherworld. I thought, since i have been working on a conversion of it to Dresden Files, i would share what i have done so far, maybe people could point out ways to improve it, and of course show the flexibility of the DFRPG system.

Firstly for those not familiar with the setting, which is a shame cos they are amazing books, here a link to her website http://www.kelleyarmstrong.com/

Okay, basically this is the templates i am using and the powers i have granted to each species, if i have changed them to suit the Otherworld, i will note it otherwise the power is the same as is presented in the Your Story.

Sorcerers:

Spell-casting -4
(Specialization Sorcerer Spells)

Witches:

Spell-casting -4
(Specialization Witch Spells)

Necromancers:

Ghost Speaker-1

Necromancy -2

Shamans:

Astral Projection -2

Ayami Companion -1

Supernatural Sense (Shaman's Senses) -1

Half-Demon:

Demonic Power (-1 to -3)

Clairvoyants:

Supernatural Senses (Clairvoyance) -2

Werewolves:

Beast Change -1

Echoes of the Beast -1

Inhuman Speed -2

Human Form +1

Inhuman Strength -2

Inhuman Toughness -2

Claws -1

Vampires:

Sedative Saliva -1

Charm -2

Blood Drinker -1

Feeding Dependency +1

Mythic Recovery -6

Okay, as you can see i have tried to work in all the powers described in the otherworld series, and yet still try and keep the refresh levels low enough, so even with every race but vampires and werewolves, you could play all other races in feet in the water campaigns, even at submerged, all races all playable.

Now, i will list what the powers mean, why i priced them as such and how they differ from those in the book.

Witches and Sorcerers
Spell-Casting is very different in the books, in many ways weaker than those presented in the dresden files, and yet in some ways stronger. Most spells are cast in a few seconds, through incantations (Always found in witch spells) and hand gestures (Always found in Sorcerer Spells). Witch Spells specialize in defense and healing, while sorcerer spells specialize in Offense and Illusions. Example spells would be for witchs the Lock Spell, Binding Spell (Which Paralyzes someone as long as the spell is active),  Cover Spell (A veil spell that only works as long as you don't move, Sensing (Senses Living Beings), Numerous Healing Spells, etc. Example Sorcerer Spells would be Knock-Back, which hits someone with a unseen force throwing them backwards, Confusion Spell, chaos spell, causes general confusion, Glamour Spell, changes physical appearance to resemble another, relies on viewer’s expectations (i.e. if they don’t expect to see someone else, they won't), Energy Bolt, emits energy bolt from fingertips, strength: unconscious to lethal etc. Those are just sample spells, but they should give you an idea of the power levels that spell casting produces in the otherworld series. Fans of the Series will be able to tink of a great deal more spells.

Necromancers
Ghost Speaker works the same as in DFRPG, and Necromancy is basically ritual -2 but dealing with the necromancy presented in the books, summoning ghosts, raising the dead, (zombies), speaking with coma patients, banishing unwanted ghosts etc.

Shamans
A shaman has a constant spirit companion/guide called an ayami. This ayami is always of the opposite sex. Unlike a necromancer, who communicates with spirits in the ghost realm, an ayami is a different kind of spirit that is present in our own. An ayami is described as having "presence and substance, but no form. The shaman/ayami relationship is a lifelong bond and partnership. The ayami acts as a guardian angel, advisor, scout, and friend for the duration, so this is ayami companion. Astral Projection is self explanatory, and Shaman Senses is the ability to sense other ayami, sense not see, and to tell the health of someone by touching them. These are the only powers presented for shamans so far in the books, though there are probaly more.

Half-Demons
Now with these guys, the powers can range from a hell of a lot. Telekinisis, controling elements, enhanced senses, make skin turn to iron, sense chaos, teleport etc. And with each power, their are three levels, and a fancy pseudo latin name for each type. So will present that system using the Fire Half Demons. Like all other Half-Demon types, there are three levels, increasing in power as they go up. The lowest fire half-demon level is Igneus who can cause first degree burns, and may be able to produce sparks. Second Level,
Aduro  can cause second degree burns, AND can ignite flammable materials. Third and highest Level Exustio can cause third degree burns, and can incinerate objects and can ignite Flammable materials. As you can see for each level they gain a new power, but still have the powers of the lower levels as well, so am pricing it as -1 for lowest level, -2 for second level and -3 for the top level. If you want to know more about the different half demon types presented in the books look here http://www.kelleyarmstrong.com/extras/eDemons.htm

Clairvoyants
Clairvoyants have the power to look through other peoples eyes, even if they are miles and miles away and see what they see. With training they can even sense the emotions of the person they are seeing through. To use this power they need to have a personal item of theirs and can only use their powers on that person with the object in hand until they are familiar enough with the person to do with out.

Werewolves
Probaly the easiest to convert as all their powers carry through almost the same in both DFRPG and the Otherworld. They are strong, fast, heal quickly, have heightened senses, can change into a wolf, though it is noway as easy as in DF where takes a few seconds and is painless, werewolves in the otherworld don't get off that easy, fans of the otherworld will know what i mean :-) Note, there is no catch for werewolves in this setting.

Vampires
Were actually not all that easy to work and still make playable. They drink blood, they use it to fuel their powers, no difference from DFRPG. However, they aren't strong, or fast. They have the power to charm someone, which is somewhere inbetween Mental Domination and Incite Emotion, which basically allows them to charm a person into following them into a dark alley etc. But their major power, is that aside from beheading, they are pretty much invulnerable to harm, they heal everything in very little time.

Okay, thats bout all can remember at the mo. Suggestions and comments would be appreciated and once again, this is just another example of how flexible the DFRPG system is, well done evil hat.  ;D

26
DFRPG / Re: Merry Gentry Style Sidhe
« on: June 22, 2010, 02:47:01 AM »
I actually tink a lot of that works, using the outline of incite emotion for hands of power is genius in my opinion. And tink the other hands of power can work too, though the queens hand of power to suck all the oxygen out of room, would be hard to stat but than again she would plot device rather than pc potential. And most of the other tricks, could be covered under magic,for those who haven't read the books most Sidhe have some minor powers that are leftovers from being gods or being descended from em, i.e. merry has several powers from being descended fertility deities, which all of course relate to sex, sex mad Laurell K Hamiliton strikes again. My only prob is the idea that the magic is sponsered, in merry gentrys world the magic comes from within the fae itself, not from faerie or the courts, but thats just a name issue more than anything else.

I am still having trouble making them fit in dresdens world, at first thought it would be easy but now feel like will have to replace most of  what we know bout the fae and the courts from the dresden files, with improvised stuff from the Merry Gentry books. Not an easy task, as still trying to keep the changeling template, altering it so that rather than become npcs automatically if they gain all the powers of their race, rather if refresh allows they upgrade to a Lesser Fae or Sidhe template but still being mortal, like merry, even though the books hint that she may no longer be mortal, and using the sithins as areas that reside both in the mortal world and faerie, the Sidhe Knights remaining, and could even increase as it says in the books that there are humans who have been infused with Fae Magic. The rest, not so easy. As in, how would the white council treat the them, the same as they do fae in dresden files, or since they have free will as sometimes allies/enemies.

27
DFRPG / Merry Gentry Style Sidhe
« on: June 21, 2010, 09:14:51 PM »
Although i love the dresden files, i must admit when it somes to the fae and the sidhe, i pefer merry gentry style fae and sidhe over all others. Am just curious how others would handle em in the dresden files. Whether you tink hands of power are a bit to strong, or would fit fine. And whether should go with the style of magic presented for the fae in DFRPG, i.e. sponsered magic, seelie and unseelie, or go with evocation and thaumaturgy. Glamours feel right so would keep that.

Am trying to combine the two, merry gentrys fae and dresden files fae, i.e. making the sithin's areas that are part of both the mortal world and the nevernever, allowing for the the three queens to remain, along with the Sidhe Knights, but painting the fae as beings that have lost much of their power over time, and are now trying to reclaim it. And of course, am painting the Sidhe as playable characters, but am having trouble making it work with the refresh levels, even submerged.

Anyone have any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

28
DFRPG / New Character Template
« on: April 09, 2010, 04:16:03 PM »
First off i want to say i adore the Dresden Files and was over the mmon when i found out about this rpg which is much better than i could have imagined. Working as the GM for my group, one of our players approached me saying that she would love to play a Faerie, mainly a Nixie. We discussed the Changeling Template but she really had her heart set on playing a full Faerie with all the politics and rules of the Faerie Courts. In the end i came up with a new template, albeit still in the rough stages of creation, Former Changeling.

I decided that letting characters play a Faerie right from the start may make the Changeling Template a little useless so i decided that this template the Former Changeling Template would not be available at Character Creation. Basically, this template reflects a Changeling who has become a Full Faerie and yet retained a touch of their old self, mainly some measure of their free will.

The Musts of this template is first and foremost that the Character must begin play as a Changeling and complete two major milestones before upgrading to this Template. Why two? Simple, i decided that the Character to upgrade to this template they must purchase a new power, Bound but Free, a variation on the Marked by Power power which reflects the characters status as a Faerie with some free will but still bound to their court. This power costs -2 refresh and therefore the minimum has to be two major milestones simply because this is the earlesit stage that a character can purchase this power without running out of refresh. Secondly this power must be purchased between sessions and the character is no longer available for a time as either a pc or npc, perhaps they are off in faerie adjusting to court life or have fled from their friends to hide what they have become.

Finally what makes this template quite hard to purchase and stops characters from simply turning all there Changelings into Faeries, you cannot renter play until you have purchased all the powers that are appropriate to you species of Faeries, i.e if you want to play a Nixie you will have to purchase all the powers that are common to a general Nixie, page 47 OW, and the power Bound but Free before you can renter play, so you may have to wait for your group to complete a few major milestones to raise the base refresh before you can reenter the game. For example, our player wants to be a Nixie as i said, playing at a submerged power level, she has a refresh of -1 at the start of the game. After two major milestones, the base refresh has gone up to 12 and she now has a refresh of -3, as she hasn't purchase any new powers or stunts. She upgrade her character to a Former Changeling by purchasing the Bound but Free power. Her character is out of play for now. Looking at the Nixie character sheet we see that the the refresh cost for a Nixie is -10, and with the additional -2 from Bound but Free, she cannot renter play until the base refresh has gone up to 13, so she has to wait till another major milestone has passed before she can renter as a pc. Likewise if it was another species package with a higher refresh cost, they would have to wait even longer to renter as a pc. Once they return to play, their High Concept must have changed to reflect what they now are.

I am looking for feedback and just some advice on ironing out the kinks in the Template, mainly coming up with options for it and working out exactly what Bound but Free power would entail, currently thinking of it as a variation on Marked by Power but if someone else has a better idea, suggestions and comments would be welcome.

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