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Messages - jalrin

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16
DFRPG / Re: Character Building Help
« on: June 24, 2010, 10:29:48 PM »
I talked to tbora last night and after finding out more about what he wanted, revised my revision to his original concept.  At his request, I am posting it here.

High Concept: Kemmlerite Bastard of a Demon Lord
Trouble: Under My Father's Thumb

Skills:

Fantastic:  Conviction, Discipline
Superb: Endurance, Lore
Great: Alertness, Intimidation, Athletics
Good: Resources, Contacts, Deceit,  Presence
Fair:  Fists, Guns, Burglary, Rapport
Average:  Scholarship, Craftsmanship, Driving, Might, Survival

Powers:
 [-3] Evocation (Spirit Power +2, Spirit Control +1)
 [-3] Thaumaturgy (Necromancy Control +2, Worldwalking Control +1)
 [-2] Kemmlerian  Necromancy
 [-1] The Sight
 [-0] Soulgaze
 [-0] Wizards Constitution
 [-3] Refinement
 [-2] Law Breaker (Fifth Law)
 [-2] Law Breaker (First Law)



Total Refresh: -16

Note that due to the changes that have been made to the campaign concept, there might be some spare refresh to play with.  If so, I would recommend either a stunt (I like stunts and think a stunt or two would be good for most characters- see Grevane in Our World), Cloak of Shadows (it fits the dark theme well), or add more refinement to broaden his abilities.  Because of the degree to which his combat power had been turbocharged, the only way I see to enhance his combat effectiveness would be more item slots to raise his improve current Block 4 Armor 2 four times a session by giving it more uses and/or improving it to Block 8 armor four four times a session.  I also reworked the skills to improve its stress tracks and to emphasize some the skills that I thought would be more important (I re-prioritized the social skills to the more hostile variety on the theory that a Kemmlerite is going to be sufficiently hated that the soft sell would be hard to use).

I also took out the Pimp Cane, which seemed like it was asking for trouble (everybody who did not want to kill him for being a necromancer is going to want to kill him to stake the cane) and paid for it by eliminating the Third lawbreaker stunt, which did not fit with the rest of the concept (this Kemmlerite is more like Grevane than Corpsetaker, and so would not benefit from breaking that law).

This was the best I can do.  I still think it will be difficult to play.  While this character has Senior Council level attack evocation powers,  its powers in most other areas are about on par with what Deadmanwalking's versions of Elaine Mallory and Carlos Ramirez.  It certainly cannot compete in anything but pure combat with its peer wizard builds like Morgan or Luccio but it is the best that can be done with this concept and refresh level.

17
DFRPG / Re: Character Building Help
« on: June 23, 2010, 11:16:02 PM »
It's hard to say, Tbora.  I have been trying to build something similar to be one of main behind the scenes evil NPC for the game I am going to be GMing.  Yours looks like it works for your concept as well as anything I have come up with.  There are a couple quirks that seem off to me, but that are probably essential for your build.  One thing that strikes me about your build is that it has never taken refinement, which seems out of place considering everything else it has picked up.  It seems odd that a character would have developed ghost speaker, marked by power, and picked-up more lawbreaker stunts but never try to improve their base magic.  On the other hand, from a power-gaming perspective, I cannot do better than what you did if sheer offensive punch and casting him as a sorcerer and not a wizard does partially justify the lack of interest in acquiring more knowledge. 

My version (which does not have to worry about negative refresh since it is by definition, an evil NPC) does not have the demonic pimp cane because I am leery of allowing lawbreakers inside an item of power (the Blackstaff seems to me to be almost one of a kind).  To make up for it, I dropped marked by power (my evil wizard does not need this but you do), ghost speaker, (ditto) and reduced the lawbreaker stunts to -2 each (just like Grevane from OW: 155) and added 3 levels of refinement in order to turbocharge his necromancy and give him some defensive depth.  I also wanted to give him some sort of defensive option since he almost has to have enemies (e.g. the White Council views him as kill on sight), hence the item slots.  In the same vein, I gave him worldwalking instead of transformation to ensure that, with his Great Lore and Superb Discipline, he could open portals to the Nevernever in a hurry if he needed to escape with no prep (YS:283 base complexity is Superb so he can do it as is possible and save the fate point that your version would need to do it for a failed discipline role to open the portal in one exchange).  My build is as follows (I did not change the skills):

High Concept: Kemmlerite Bastard of a Demon Lord
Trouble: Under My Father's Thumb

Skills:

Fantastic:  Conviction, Discipline
Superb: Rapport, Endurance, Lore
Great: Deceit, Alertness, Contacts
Good: Resources, Intimidation, Athletics
Fair:  Fists, Guns, Burglary
Average:  Scholarship, Craftsmanship, Driving, Mights, Survival

Powers:
 [-3] Evocation (Spirit Power +2, Spirit Control +1)
 [-3] Thaumaturgy (Necromancy Control +2, Worldwalking Complexity +1)
 [-2] Kemmlerian  Necromancy
 [-1] The Sight
 [-0] Soulgaze
 [-0] Wizards Constitution
 [-3] Refinement  (the added specialties listed above plus an extra focus item granting +1 Defensive Spirit Control and two enchanted item slots Granting block four or Armor:2 three times per session [2 enchanted item slots).
 [+2] Demonic Pimp Cane
    [-2] Law Breaker (Fifth Law)
    [-2] Law Breaker (First Law)
    [-1] Marked by power
Total Refresh: 1

My version can throw out 11 shifts of necromancy (13 if trying to kill).  Yours can do 11/14 shifts  but does not have the ability to do much of anything else whereas mine can also dish erect a Legendary shield using spirit for times when your zombies are not available.  Your eggshell armed with a hammer version, by contrast is a better offensive threat, but cannot defend itself at all if surprised (it takes 2 exchanges to activate your version's necromantic defense).

P.S.  Your version, because it has superb endurance, should have an extra mild physical consequence.

18
DFRPG / Re: Shifts to Stress - optional or not ?
« on: June 22, 2010, 07:14:37 PM »
Offering compels creates a problem though: it means that characters basically have to stockpile most of their FATE points because otherwise the GM will destroy their characters with compels.  Because that would make the game less interesting for everyone (aspect usage is was what makes FATE interesting) such a strategy seems unwise.

19
DFRPG / Re: Post Yourself As A DFRPG Character!
« on: June 22, 2010, 06:28:59 PM »
I will do mine tonight, but how should we go about calculating which level we are (I was going to do my skill list and go from there but if you have a better idea let me know)?

20
DFRPG / Control is supposed to be good, not a cause of errant magic
« on: June 20, 2010, 10:15:37 PM »
Here is the problem though, Why on earth does it make sense that a highly controlled evocation is worse than a less well controlled one?
Consider two sample evocations that could be used for stunning purposes.  Sorcerer A uses a seven shift force attack, rolls only a Great control roll but takes three backlash to keep it from going berserk.  The target (the one from your example) rolls a great defense roll so no shifts on the aiming roll but the target takes seven damage and is taken out.  I would be seriously inclined to agree with you in this case.

Consider Wizard B, who brings the attack you describe and gets seven shifts of damage off of weapon:1 but a fantastic control roll for six shifts of damage?  Does it make sense to punish Wizard B (who likely had to sacrifice skill points that could have gone into conviction and thus raw power) for trying to control their power (by establishing a "fantastic" level of control over their power)?

The argument that sleep maneuver spells are the answer fails to consider that a lot of these spells violate the Third or fourth laws of magic.  I guess you could house rule that they are not, but now we have imposed two house rules to deal with a problem that can be controlled with a single, narrower rule.

P.S.: baseball bats are Weapon:2) YS:p.202

21
DFRPG / Re: Shifts to Stress - optional or not ?
« on: June 20, 2010, 10:00:50 PM »
Quote
So start with B but if the players abuse it, then switch it to A.  They will have to learn to pull the punches so you can switch back to B.  Perhaps there is no clear defined answer on this.  But abuse is a two way street.  Player and GM should share the responsibility.

I guess I am confused.  The OP specifically asked about how to deal with characters who get a lot of shifts on their control roll, not their weapon rating.  I do not see how those can be abused in your scenario where an evocator has only used a low yield attack but gotten a bonanza of shifts because they controlled their power very well.  While I see your point on the weapon rating issue, I do not see how highly controlling your power is a character failing or abuse of the rules.  If anything, it seems like the opposite and something the WC would encourage.

Now, if you want to discuss the consequences of fallout from bringing more power than the character can handle, that is a completely different story.  ;D

22
DFRPG / No house rules for high discipline casters
« on: June 20, 2010, 09:41:56 PM »
The most logical solution is to include the shifts in the roll but to grant greater latitude to wizard in determining the taken out result for damage done by control shifts as opposed to weapons ratings.

While I am sympathetic to the viewpoint that high powered weapons rating should be limited before they become lethal, it does not make sense to punish a character for doing a good job controlling their evocation.    Such a situation strikes me as creating a gotcha situation designed to deal with the fact that some GMs do not like wizard PCs principal combat power throwing a punch that puts it on par with the combined speed, strength, etc. powers other PCs get.

In designing the rules for the game I am GMing, I keep running into the same problem developing one of these house rules:  If one of my PCs brings a low yield attack but has high discipline and gets lucky, why should they be punished for exercising excessive ccontrol over their power?  The whole point of control is that it well controls the use of power.   Otherwise, it is impossible for a player to effectively play a spell caster if they cannot calculate a low yield attack setting  because they may roll too well (or the opponent rolls badly)

The argument is made that such screwing of evocators is necessary to maintain story cohesion, but it leads to the result that Harry Dresden is better able to safely incapacitate an opponent than would Elaine Mallory who, by the rules, gives up a an extra mild consequence, and suffers a reduction in her spell casting power, specifically to have the ability to exercise absolute control over her spells.  This makes no sense and justifies a simple rule that, below a certain weapon rating (I would say 2-3), the rules in the book should be followed with regards to taking out an opponent even if one of these house rules is imposed.

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