Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - DonBugen

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13
16
DF Spoilers / Re: Exposure to Magic?
« on: April 05, 2019, 09:11:43 PM »
I think that it's fairly clear that genes + magic exposure =/= magic talent. WOJ is that Molly is the only Carpenter kid with talent.  Little Harry Carpenter had the genes and had magic exposure while in the womb.

17
DF Spoilers / Re: This I Believe
« on: April 05, 2019, 06:27:42 PM »
Oooooooooo.

I like how you think.

18
DF Spoilers / Re: This I Believe
« on: April 05, 2019, 02:43:30 PM »
Thanks, guys! I'll write more when I can (prolly this weekend) but in the meantime, thanks for setting me straight on the WOJ for Eb and the Blackstaff, as well as Andi. I still haven't gotten to read the new anthology yet (I know, long year...) so that pretty much rules out most of the brain damage thing.

Also, wow, Andi and Butters still play WoW?

Also, to Slowpool on the Cowl thing - Cowl's not after the Word. He grabs Bob instead, something that the heirs don't even realize Harry has. Somehow, Cowl knows.

I detailed my Cowl theory on the below linked thread; it's a novella-sized post. I still stand by it and think it's the most literarily-sound theory.  I've also pasted the "tldr" for conveniences' sake.

https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,48590.msg2284102.html#msg2284102

Quote
TLDR:  My evidence is this:  the structure is there, in the Dresden Files, to suggest that such a reveal involving alternate universes, an alternate timeline, and time travel exist.  It is suggested that the only way to start such a thing is to have a person travel through time and create a paradox.  Butcher has already suggested Grave Peril as the point of paradox, and Harry as the catalyst, in the synopsis of Mirror Mirror.  Creating this paradox by means of time travel would mean that there was a second older, more powerful Harry Dresden who would have to be hidden from the reader.  Cowl is a more powerful wizard whose identity is hidden from the reader.  He has many suspicious similarities to Harry and has no critical inconsistencies that would make it impossible for him to fulfill this role.  Finally, Cowl being an alternative version of Harry would have major emotional significance to the main character.

19
Quote
But given that my premise is essentially "but what if He didn't step in" this isn't really relevant.
Quote
So your actual argument is not that Harry would never pick up a coin in the circumstances stated in my premise--it is that my premise is ludicrous and invalid.
It seemed to me that your premise wasn't that Michael wasn't coming (after all, you mentioned Michael); it was that there was a delay and there was an actual fight that broke out, and the heat got turned up.  My actual argument IS that Harry wouldn't pick up the coin in those circumstances - I pretty much made that my closing statement.  I stand by that. 

If you want to argue "What would happen if TWG wasn't going to save Harry or Molly at all," that's a completely different argument, because in Proven Guilty, Dresden's second-guessed TWG's plan perfectly.  That implies that TWG's personality and motives are different.

If TWG was actually fundamentally different than he is portrayed in The Dresden Files, that would then mean Dresden is fundamentally wrong in his estimation of TWG's motives.  That would mean that Lasciel would be aware that Dresden is incorrect, as she knows TWG far better than most mortals.  That would mean that she would be far better able to argue, convince, and manipulate Harry, arguing from a correct standpoint rather than an incorrect standpoint.  That would mean that, whether Harry would have accepted the coin or not, it would have been based upon a hypothetical situation in a hypothetical universe that does not in any way reflect how the series is actually portrayed.

I try not to get involved in discussions like that.  Starting your premise being "what if X character was different than how he/she is portrayed" is relevant for fan fiction, but not so much for logical discussion.  And yeah, I guess, if that's your posed hypothetical statement then I'm going to have to bow out - not because "it's ludicrous and invalid," but just because my only valid contribution is, "Well, that wouldn't happen, because it didn't happen."

20
Quote
The issue isn't that she offers him the coin--it's that she thinks hurting him is going to get her anything.
  My point is that I don't think there's any tactic Lash could take at this point that would result any differently - either being a source of aid or a source of danger.

Quote
I'm not sure if it would be more hopeless or not, but I think Harry does. Harry specifically thinks that he's got no chance if a fight breaks out when he's talking to Charity beforehand.
Yup.  Completely hopeless.  That's kind of the idea.  The greater the odds are stacked against, the more likely that TWG would be stepping in.

Quote
You mean, like it was contrary to Harry's character in Dead Beat, where he explicitly said he was going to do the faith thing when he was being tortured by Cassius, only to turn around the moment he was freed and agree to work with Lasciel's shadow for the first time ever because he couldn't stand by while innocents were killed?
  Yup.  Because here, he's taking Michael's leap, by proxy.  He's rules-lawyered himself into believing that the Almighty will interject, not on his behalf, but on Molly and Michael's.

And... he's not wrong.  That's exactly what happens.  Lash knows it, too.  Lash typically doesn't interact when she knows that rescue is just around the corner (for example, she could have done the exact same thing when Morgan was going to kill Harry in Dead Beat, and Harry decided to die.)  So the only way your proposition would work is if TWG is on vacation or something, and NO help is coming.  Even then, no dice - because even at the height of her influence at the end of White Night, Harry was fine being destroyed and letting his loved ones die rather than take up the coin.

The only reason it's even an option in Changes - and not an option he ever chose - is not because it's just "an innocent."  It's because it's his daughter.  His hurt, scared, vulnerable daughter, and he swore to himself that he would never, ever, EVER let any child of his suffer.  Half-warlock darkling path teen Molly who would turn herself into a monster anyways doesn't get that same consideration.  Not by a long shot.

21
DF Spoilers / Re: This I Believe
« on: April 02, 2019, 01:41:06 PM »
Oo!  People are actually interested!
OK, so I'm going to reply to your points, Slowpool - and I figure that at the same time, I'll probably cover what Kbrizzle was curious about.

•   [Malcolm] - So far, we've only seen Carmichael, Papa Murphy, and Sir Stuart halfway.  I'm not sure that being in Chicago Between has anything to do with either not being good enough or bad enough for What Comes Next, so much as it has something to do with having a will that's not satisfied with being done with the mortal world.  And at the moment, Chicago Between is the only force we know of that holds deceased spirits which also acts to counteract an enemy but has its actions restricted.
•   [Cowl] - No.  In fact, Harry *never* really remarks at all about either's physical appearance.  Neither tall nor short nor fat nor thin.  Which is really, really conspicuous for a PI that notes EVERYONE'S physical appearance.  My best guess is there's some sort of magic protecting him from noting it.  However - Dresden is ALSO able to identify Cowl *at a glance* later on, so presumably he's subconsciously aware of his physical appearance, even if he's not consciously aware.
•   [Mac] - *taps nose*
•   [Andi] - Really?  To the person he's extremely angry at and wary of?  You think that Butters is going to sit down and have a heart-to-heart with the person who was too gosh-darned important to let him make sure his girlfriend wasn't bleeding into her brain after getting a concussion and being stuck under freezing water for so long, and then left Butters and co. to fend for themselves?  You think that he wants to open up to Dresden about how he pretty much made his girlfriend a vegetable and make him pity Butters?  Or worse, not? 
I'll tell you what I see - I see Andi being extremely injured, getting hit on the head, being deprived of oxygen, and the only person at the end of Cold Days who needs to be rushed to the hospital.  She's not talking.  We never hear how she's doing.  In Skin Game, she's always out of the room, out of sight.  She doesn't help Butters in any of his activities, even though she would be far more dangerous and more capable than him, even in his Batman-mode.  Better able to spy on Dresden, too.  Her absence is EXTREMELY conspicuous, given the dire condition she was in a the end of Cold Days.  And none of Butters' dialogue implies anything of Andi, other than that she's passively somewhere, waiting for him.
•   [Ebenezer] We don't exactly know how Nemesis transmits from person to person.  Presumably, it's not something as communicable as a normal disease.  There would, after all, be no reason why it needed to try to manipulate Lily and Fix if Maeve could have infected them just as easily.  With that being said, you're correct that Nemesis would have recognized Harry as a threat, even if Evil Eb didn't.  So I'm backing off on him being nemefected.
However, I don't believe for a second he's not still lying.  He pretty much says so at the end of Changes.  That's twice that he's concealed something huge and important and critical to Harry.  Lies by omission are still lies, and Eb DID say in Blood Rites that everything was out in the open.
•   [Merlin] I wasn't aware of that WOJ.  Can you point to it?  My reasoning for why Merlin was speaking in something that Harry could recognize as British was due to Merlin purportedly living backwards in time; i.e. "born at the wrong end of time, and I have to live backwards from in front", per The Once and Future King.  It makes sense for why something that sounds mostly normal and human would be understandable.
•   [Vadderung] - Not sure, to be honest.  But the being Odin is not well-known for being a nice, kind, helpful old soul.  He's an extremely complex character, and while Loki is the characteristic 'trickster god' of the Norse pantheon, Odin is also a trickster and not 100% good.  Yet, he's the only side character who has ever appeared to be 100% benevolent to Harry, offering advice and services and aid without requiring anything but a nickel in return.  No one gets a free lunch, and Harry and Vadderung aren't friends.  He's in it for something.  I trust Grey's wary attitude towards Vadderung far more than the All-Father's general pleasant demeanor.
•   [Amoracchius] - Cool beans.
•   [Mirror Choice] - To be honest, it's nothing more than a hunch, and far less developed than any other idea that I've listed here.  But as far as I can reckon, it's the one decision that Harry could have made that would be at once more good and intending positivity (i.e. being honest with Susan) but would have had far more disastrous consequences.

22
DF Spoilers / This I Believe
« on: April 02, 2019, 07:19:21 AM »
I’ve got a lot of wild, crazy theories about where the Dresden Files will end up, and what’s going on with each character.  Most don’t deserve to really be fleshed out and defended.  Some, I think, are interesting just in their own right.  A few are downright nuts.

This post is, in itself, kind of a ‘statement of belief’ about what I think Jim’s hidden behind the curtain – what was, and is, and will be.  I’m not going to go crazy into detail on any one thing here, at least not on the initial post.  If any of the below theories look interesting to you, or you want to ask me why on earth I think this thing, go ahead and ask.  If you think I’m flat out wrong, then point it out.  I want to temper my theory into something resilient, and that doesn’t happen without whacking something a ton with a hammer.

Plus, if I’m right about something, this’ll be my immortalized “I told ya so.”

So, without further ado, my theories.

•   Malcolm Dresden works in Chicago Between.  When he speaks about being “allowed” to contact Harry in Dead Beat, it’s Uriel who had allowed it.
•   Cowl and Kumori are Harry and Molly, from an original timeline in which Harry went down the left-hand path.  Harry’s habit of barely scraping through every major fight by the skin of his teeth is in part because he’s following Cowl’s path, roughly, and the Law of Conservation of History tends to save his bacon.
•   Mac is a former angel who chose to transubstantiate thousands of years ago.  Most likely, this was due to a love interest.
•   Andi suffered brain damage in Cold Days, and isn’t able to eat, walk, or take care of herself without assistance.
•   The Blackstaff is not, in fact, an actual role within the White Council.  Ebenezer simply allowed Harry to come to that conclusion and didn’t correct him.
•   Ebenezer is still lying to Harry.  He doesn’t have his best interests at heart.  I highly suspect that he is, in fact, Nemifected, and may be the original carrier of Nemesis from beyond the Outer Gates.  Furthermore, I doubt that there’s much difference, if any, between the Gray Council and the so-called “Black Council.”
•   The English-sounding bloke stuck in Demonreach is the original Merlin.  50% chance that Harry’s related to him.  30% chance that Merlin was the REAL target of the bloodline curse in Changes.
•   Donar Vadderung also is lying to Harry.  He has some use for him planned, something not at all nice. 
•   Harry will wield Amoracchius again, at least for a time, though he’d be a “one-off Knight” at most.
•   The one choice that the evil Harry in Mirror, Mirror made differently back around Bianca’s party was being straightforward with Susan and inviting her as his plus one, rather than Michael.

23
I disagree with this "what Lash should have done" routine.  If Harry was any other moral - ANY other mortal that Lasciel had seduced in the past - this would have been the knockout blow.  Lasciel is presumably intelligent enough to have deduced where this trip is ending up.  Running Little Chicago is possibly the least dangerous of all the things Harry is about to attempt, and it's going to get his head blown to pieces.  Lash *knows* that she's not going to get anywhere with the "let me slowly guide you" routine - she NEEDS to offer him the coin.  She does his best attempt, and he refuses - and by doing so, accepts that he may die by his decision.  There's nothing else that she can offer.

If Harry didn't accept Lasciel when Molly was being tortured to death in Faerie, I don't see him suddenly changing his mind because everything's suddenly immediate.  That would imply a decision that was only half-heartedly thought out.  Harry is 100% behind his decision.

The situation you pose is if suddenly there was a battle that broke out in the middle, when the Merlin declared Molly guilty.  Yet I don't see this as being any more hopeless of a situation than storming Arctus Tor, or fighting Eldest Fetch - in that they are completely hopeless, save for information that Harry doesn't have - that he has Summer Fire, or that all of Winter is away.

Lastly...  I feel like you're completely forgetting about Harry's last gambit - that this is, in itself, a leap of faith.  Harry places his faith in TWG, even if he isn't willing to really admit it to himself, that either he had the power to bring Molly back or that Michael was somehow involved and would appear.  When every situation got grimmer - learning that the Merlin had all the votes, that his defense of Molly was over-reaching, that the Merlin pronounced Molly's death - he got more resilient and audacious. 

I mean - there's absolutely NO reason AT ALL to demand that everyone must wait while the Gatekeeper makes his last vote.  The chances against something suddenly changing in the few minutes it would take would be trillions to one.  Yet Dresden DOES demand this, and they DO wait...  not because this is the only option available to him, but because Dresden actually has faith that TWG will pull through.

To think that things might suddenly get a bit spicy, and look dire, and Lash might do her time slowy thing, and Dresden might think, "You know, screw it, this faith thing seemed like a good idea, but I might as well turn into a monster after all to rescue this kid who CERTAINLY will turn into a monster without proper guidance, which I can't provide anymore - THAT is contrary to his character.  Because the more dire things look, the more certain Dresden is that those doors are going to burst open and salvation is on the other side.

24
There's a difference between the coins and nemesis, however.  The coins are only given to free-will-holding mortals.  The Genoskwa, while a big bad monster, is still a being of the Really Real World, and I'd argue that it has free will and choice, the same way as Goodman Grey does.  When Nicodemus instructs the shadow to paralyze Dresden, I don't believe that's because all shadows, regardless of the amount of will invested towards them, have the ability to paralyze their hosts; rather, that Nicodemus assumed that Dresden would have given in enough for Lash to have enough power to restrain him.

Nemesis seems to infect mortals and immortals alike, and will doesn't seem to be a part of it.
 Perhaps this argument could be made with a mortal; I'm not sure that it could be made to a being without free will.  Your statement seems to imply that Mab's will is that much stronger than Maeve's was, which is a fallacy - neither have free will.

Do you have any passages which can support Mab as infected?  Because I can think of a ton which imply that she isn't, including pretty much all of Cold Days.

25
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG: why Nicodemus wanted the knife
« on: April 02, 2019, 12:21:23 AM »
Kill Lucifer?  Why would Nicodemus want to kill Lucifer, when it's clearly TWG that he's so bitterly impassioned against?  Furthermore, why would Lucifer help Nicodemus in Small Favor, if Nicodemus has ever displayed any issue at all?

Not arguing against you, per se; I just love twisty theories.  Straight and narrow ones generally don't have a chance of happening.

26
DF Spoilers / Re: WAG: why Nicodemus wanted the knife
« on: April 01, 2019, 11:49:24 PM »
I don't think that Nicodemus would go through all that trouble, especially with sacrificing his daughter, if the grand prize was an item which had a slight improvement over the noose already around his throat.

Honestly, with this guy, I think there's only one or two things that he would give about anything for.  My best guess is that the knife (if it IS the same spear which pierced Christ's side) is a conjunction, much in the same way that Halloween is - it's an item which allows the user to slay an immortal.  Only instead of having to wait for a particular time, or approaching a being while IN the flow of time, it just gives them the ability to kill.

No real evidence, but it fits thematically both with who Nicodemus is, the small list of impossible things he'd sacrifice his daughter in order to accomplish, and known potential powers given the history of the item in question.

27
Quote
He'd rather die, yes. But would he rather allow innocents to die? That's why he started working with Lasciel's shadow in the first place, after all--it was the only way to save innocent lives.
Yes. That's exactly why Harry doesn't take up the coin when Lash offers it before running Little Chicago. She poses the same exact dilemma you're doing now, and Harry refuses.

Quote
Personally, I think that Lash doesn't make that offer here because she's not particularly well integrated into the story in this book. Proven Guilty was supposed to be before Dead Beat, after all, and in my opinion the Lash storyline shows it. (Except for the end conversation with Michael. That was excellent.)
This is poor reasoning. You're saying that Jim left a huge gaping hole in his story because he was originally planning on a different order, and just didn't make the continuity work out. No. He clearly established why Harry wasn't using Lash to do any death-defying feats.

28
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Harry have awoken something?
« on: April 01, 2019, 08:31:21 PM »
Eh, possibly, but I would have assumed we'd see more narrative hints toward it, both before and after Changes, kind of like how we're seeing narrative hints toward a multiverse-style universe. Jim likes to set some groundwork before rolling out big stuff.

29
No. Harry's proven several times that he would rather die than succumb to that power, and especially in Proven Guilty. Besides, if Dresden suddenly had to fight all the assembled White Council at the end of Proven Guilty, I'm not sure that even Lasciel would have been able to save anyone. Presumably, Lash knows this, which is why she doesn't use it as an opportunity.

30
DF Spoilers / Re: Mac's Possible Identity
« on: March 08, 2019, 10:30:20 PM »
Gregori / Nephilim / former Angel makes sense for several reasons.  He's called "Watcher," specifically, and there are few "watchers" who are also 'out', in the supernatural/religious sense.  Jim Butcher has stated that he's already told us what Mac is, but that you have to be a bit nerdy to really know, and so I'm assuming religious nerd counts.  Being one of those myself, I think that this is pretty on the ball.

Furthermore, it's worth mentioning, in a meta sense, that Jim's described in detail his method of characterization, and especially how he describes characters.  He chooses a bunch of different words and phrases that not only describe the character, but put in your mind a sense of who they are.  Kind of like how Karrin is described as "someone's favorite aunt" a bunch of times, or how words describing Thomas routinely have a slightly more sensual tone.

Mac's descriptive language is often heavenly in nature - or, at least, how Mac's ale is often described.  God is often referenced when Mac is described for the first time.  He's always described as a man of unknown age, bald, wearing "spotless" white.  He shows deference to Mouse, who is "little brother" to Uriel, and in all ways acts honestly, respectfully, and with integrity.   

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13