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Messages - Wolfwood2

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106
DFRPG / Re: Item of Power Question
« on: November 10, 2010, 08:40:13 PM »
Quote from: HumAnnoyd on November 10, 2010, 06:34:34 PM
This was kind of what I was thinking.  And the 6 shots makes sense too.  Wonder how much Refresh it would add to have unlimited ammo?  But, no.  I like the tension of reloading it as a horde of face ripping monsters charge down on him.  Sounds like good fun to me. 

Remember that combat exchanges are fairly abstract in time and can potentially be minutes long.  One attack doesn't necessarily mean one shot, anymore than it means one swing of the sword.

A combat exchange might involve firing six times, fumbling in your pocket for more ammo, and firing another couple of times, all in a single Guns roll.  Or it could be you waving the Winchester around, trying to draw a bead, failing to get a clean shot, and not firing at all in the context of a failed Guns roll.

107
DFRPG / Re: A Subtle Feeding?
« on: November 10, 2010, 07:32:31 PM »
Quote from: MyNinjaH8sU on November 10, 2010, 07:21:44 PM
That's your play style though. I've seen this done both ways, and seen it succeed and fail both ways. The GM and players should play in a way that makes it fun for them. He probably knows his group better than any of us do.

Still, the FATE system is largely built around transparency because a lot of it is deciding when you want to use your plot points to affect narrative outcomes.  How can you do that if you don't know what the options are?

Right here we've stumbled across a problem.  The players might well decide they want to spend Fate points to have their characters succeed in knowing what's going on.  How can they decide whether or not to do that if they don't know the stakes of the conflict?

108
DFRPG / Re: A Subtle Feeding?
« on: November 10, 2010, 06:56:42 PM »
Quote from: sprainogre on November 10, 2010, 05:49:38 PM
I agree fully Wolfwood.  I was thinking the opposed deception roll myself, but wanted to see if there was a rule, precedent, or fan opinion on the issue at hand.

My big question is the Subtle Feeding issue. What sort of roles, compels, or maybe stunts might he need to present to feed right under a party member's nose.

A straight Deception roll, modified by Discipline (not that I expect a WC PC is going to have low Discipline) ought to do it.  I don't think it needs to go to the realm of Stunts or being forced to use Aspects.

I think his biggest problem is that there is a wide variety of skills the other PCs can justify using to oppose, and they're naturally going to use their best skill out of the selection.  Empathy, to notice there's something happening to the children.  Alertness, to notice the subtle physical cues of the feeding.  Lore, for straight-up detection of a magical thing happening in front of them.  Deception, to notice he's trying to hide something.

There are a lot of opportunities for someone to outdo his roll, unless he gets lucky.  Though if you're very fortunate as a GM, the players may get into a Fate point "bidding war" where they go back and forth using Aspects to enhance their rolls and to see who wants to win the exchange more.  I'm seen a situration where 7 fate points were blown on each side trying to win a single contested roll.

109
DFRPG / Re: A Subtle Feeding?
« on: November 10, 2010, 05:40:48 PM »
Quote from: sprainogre on November 10, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
After glaring daggers at me, he want's to attempt to resist (the rest of the group is RIGHT THERE after all, and don't know his true nature) and failing that, try to feed all subtle-like.  Now, is this the case where he better present an aspect and offer up a fate point to make that roll, or is it simply a deception sort of moment.  Since this has the potential to set the tone for how this will be handled, I thought I'd get some more opinions on it.

If he wants to resist the Compel straight-up, he can hand over a Fate point and that's it.  As long as you have a Fate Point left to buy it off, you can always resist a Compel.

If he wants to go along with the Compel but try to disguise his feeding, that's a Deception sort of moment.  An opposed roll so that nobody else notices what he's doing, opposed by whatever skill the other PCs want to justify.

Remember, you as the GM can "blow his cover" any time you want through the power of plot.  That's not interesting.  What's interesting is seeing him to to wriggle out of situations like this.

110
DFRPG / Re: Why is the white court catch worth +0?
« on: November 10, 2010, 04:09:40 PM »
Quote from: Amelia Crane on November 10, 2010, 12:50:04 PM
That is putting the entire argument backwards.  If the powers they have are strong enough to be worth -7, then the powers on their own merits ought to be worth -7.  It shouldn't be "We're not going to give you credit for powers that we overpriced to make up for the powers we underpriced".

I have no problem with WCV not being available below chest deep, but if the prices are wrong, the proper thing to do is alter the powers of the template, not lie about the worth of a catch.  You could very easily increase the value of a catch and include Lasting Emotion or Incite at Range in the template to make it still worth +7.

Words like "underpriced" and "overpriced" and "lie" are pretty provocative.  Costing powers isn't an exact science, you know.  The guidelines laid down are only guidelines, not anything locked in stone.  I think there's a "letter of the law" case to be made that the White Court catch should be +1 instead of +0.  However there's a "spirit of the law" case that when you weigh a lot of intangible factors we've been discussing here such as rarity value, difficulty of convenient weaponization, etc., one could reasonably say it's not worth a point of refresh back.

Definitely an edge case, but I think the game designers made a reasonable call.  Basically, it's simply not expected that you'll use the Catch much in dealing with the White Court.  They're mortal enough to just stab and shoot and Evoke.

111
DFRPG / Re: Why is the white court catch worth +0?
« on: November 09, 2010, 04:27:02 PM »
For me, the fundamental question is:

Do we want people playing White Court vampires for 1 less refresh cost?  My answer is that I don't think we want that.  I like that they come in at the power level they do.  Compared to this, the rest of the argument is irrelevant.

Truth be told, I think that's the reason the designers erred on the side of pricing the Catch at +0.  Yeah you can argue for the other side, but it's all about keeping that WC power out of PC hands too early.

112
DFRPG / Who can enter the Nevernever?
« on: October 18, 2010, 06:50:08 PM »
I'm a little confused on what it takes to get into the Nevernever.  As far as I can tell:

1. Any supernatural creature can do it, but it usually takes them them a scene (or being absent from a scene) so they can go find a place that "resonates" with their power.

2. Anyone with Worldwalker can do it at any time, so they can use it for quick escapes and such.

3. Anyone with Thaumaturgy can do it?  Not quite sure I got this one.  Harry seems able to rip open portals to the Nevernever on the spot.  Is that because the complexity of the ritual is below his Lore, so it's not a problem?

Also, what about humans who have more limited powers?  Like, can a focused practicioner find their way to the Nevernever?  Do we treat them as "a supernatural creature" for this purpose?

113
DFRPG / Re: What about Oberon?
« on: September 14, 2010, 01:05:46 AM »
Quote from: MijRai on September 13, 2010, 09:33:29 PM
Oberon was King, not Knight. Big difference, especially in the Dresden Files.

I like how you write that with such conviction, as though anything weren't open to interpretation or a reworking of the myth.  Especially in the Dresden Files.  Wouldn't it be a hoot if there were no difference at all between king and knight, just nobody knows it?

114
DFRPG / Re: What about Oberon?
« on: September 13, 2010, 08:42:29 PM »
Oberon was the first and most powerful Summer Knight.  So puissant was he that he ruled alongside his Queen as an equal.  Some say that he was a famous mythic figure taken up with a new name.  Perhaps Gilgamesh, or clever Odysseus, or Prince Ōnamuji.

No one knows what happened exactly, but one day Oberon set down his sword and vanished as such legendary figures will do.  All knights since then have been but poor, fragile replacements.

In another version of the story, Oberon was both the Summer and the Winter Knight and the Courts were joined in peace throguh the mutual love of the queens for him.  But frankly this sounds a bit too much like somebody's harem fantasy, so not a lot of credence gets placed in that one.

The lesser fae are typically unhelpful on the matter, as it appears that they have been enchanted to forget.

115
DFRPG / Re: Block, Counterspell and the like
« on: September 13, 2010, 08:31:39 PM »
I think it makes fights between wizards more interesting if they're counterspelling each other.  It also reinforces the value of having allies along to attack while the group spellcaster tries to tie up the other guy's magic.

Therefore I'd allow counterspell blocks on the justification that it makes for superior gameplay rather than appealing to novel canon or trying to suss out the intent of the rules.

116
DFRPG / Re: Block, Counterspell and the like
« on: September 12, 2010, 06:57:16 PM »
Quote from: WillH on September 12, 2010, 06:45:30 PM
The Discipline roll is what targets a spell.  To dodge or block a spell you only need to beat the discipline roll. Only shifts over the dodge roll or block value add to the stress done by the spell, not the total discipline roll.

Yeah, I think he knows that.  But with a 10 on the discipline, it's going to be tough to dodge or block.

117
DFRPG / Re: I wonder what the mortality rate on fey nobility is...
« on: September 09, 2010, 03:44:46 PM »
Quote from: wolff96 on September 09, 2010, 02:40:34 PM
I realize it kind of looks like I'm picking on your example here, for which I apologize, but I'm trying to use it to illustrate my point:  The Sidhe are tricksters of really high order, with centuries of bargain-making experience.  Why would they ever agree to a bargain if there was even a *chance* it would come back on them?  If the wizard was really trying to pin the Faerie down on 'that bum over there, right now', wouldn't they be intelligent enough to start taking a really close look at the bum ESPECIALLY if they could die of the bargain?

Well I think you are picking on the example, because there's a legitimate question here.  What happens when a fey makes a mistake about its own capabilities to accomplish something and can't follow through on a bargain?  It doesn't even have to be a "trick".  Maybe all parties bargained in good faith, and the fey (not being omnipotent) just couldn't make it happen.

To pick a totally off-the-wall example, maybe the Winter Lady promises somebody she's going to see they're the winner of American Idol.  But whoopsy, the Summer Queen promised this other guy she was going to make him the winner, and she has more mojo.

One could argue that there's an implicit "to the best of my abilities" attached to these things.  And yes, there will often be a loophole of some sort in the language.  (Though if it's so easy, then why do sidhe ever bother fulfilling any bargains at all?)  Still, the idea of a sidhe in a tight spot because they can't make good on their bargain is an interesting one.

118
DFRPG / Re: Hitting with Potion grenades
« on: September 08, 2010, 07:48:19 PM »
Quote from: MijRai on September 07, 2010, 04:50:30 PM
Well, I'd go with throwing it with weapons. Unless he magically launches it at them, he is going to be using knowledge and muscle. I would also warn him not to throw it at a person's head. It might strangle them if you do that, and that would be bad.

Seems like kind of a simulationist argument for this system.  I got the idea that you're supposed to figure out what skill you want to use and then work backwards to justify it.

If "potions" are going to be this guy's primary means of attack in physical combat, then what is the sense of making him buy up a weapons skill he doesn't want?  Or alternately, miss a lot with his potions because he wasn't interested in that skill?

119
DFRPG / Re: Help Design a Rote "Freeze" Evocation
« on: September 08, 2010, 05:50:26 PM »
Quote from: DFJunkie on September 08, 2010, 04:42:01 PM
As a final word, I would not recommend making this a rote.  The reason I say that is that the entire point of a rote is that it's a "one size fits all" spell.  Given that you can change your description of the spell to change the appropriate defensive skill (Orbius is resisted by Endurance of all things, since it's a glob of extradimensional goo that covers your face and suffocates you) for a non-rote Evocation you would probably be best served to come up with your descriptions on the fly to tailor the defending stat to your enemy's weaknesses.  Just my two cents there.

Hmm, that's a good point.  What kind of spells do make good rotes, then?  I'm tempted to just do one attack and one defense, but that seems a bit boring.

120
DFRPG / Help Design a Rote "Freeze" Evocation
« on: September 08, 2010, 02:55:04 PM »
So I need to come up with a couple of rotes (Lore at +2) for my character in a chest-deep game.  He's got an affinity for ice evocations (specializes in water), so I am considering having one of them be a "freeze" attack spell that basically encases the target in a block of ice.  Can someone help me work out how this would work and how the rote should be best designed?

Right now the character has Conviction and Discipline at +4, a speciality in water (Power +1), and I have not yet decided on his focus items.  (Feel free to suggest; he has 4 slots.)

I imagine that the effect of this should basically be a grapple, though I'm not sure if I understand how grapples work.  Does a grapple prevent someone from acting defensively?  Like, say, using Athletics to dodge in response to being attacked?  It seems really powerful if it does, but I'm not sure conceptually how to explain an opponent still twisting and dodging when they're encased in ice.

How much power should I put into this thing?  Is it worth overchanneling as standard on a rote?  How many shifts is it useful to put into duration?  I want it to last at least one additional exchange, because I can't count on going before the opponent and that means it's basically wasted it it only lasts one exchange.

Just curious how the mechanics experts would do this one.

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