91
DF Spoilers / Zoo Day spoilers
« on: June 05, 2018, 03:15:48 AM »
I liked it. Felt like a family adventure.
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92
Cinder Spires Spoilers / Confirmed Cinder Spires RPG
« on: May 14, 2018, 09:04:27 AM »
In the Emerald City Comic Con panel Jim confirms evil hat are creating a Cinder Spires RPG.
Apparently he's creating flags for the spires
Apparently he's creating flags for the spires
93
DF Spoilers / Arthurian Myths in Dresden Files
« on: May 10, 2018, 04:21:12 AM »
We know that the Original Merlin heavily features in the background of The Dresden Files, and Amorraccius is regarded as Excalibur by both Michael and Sir Stuart.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to how Arthurian Myths affect or figure into the Dresden Files?
I remember when reading Le MOrte de Arthur that Three Faerie Queens appeared to Arthur at the moment of his death.
The Lady of the Lake is widely regarded as Fae, as is the Green Knight and the Fisher King.
King Arthur is also listed as one of the Leaders of the Wild Hunt according to some sources.
Any other ideas or moments when Arthurian Myths appear in the Dresden Files? Or ones that you wish to appear in the Dresden Files?
Does anyone have any thoughts as to how Arthurian Myths affect or figure into the Dresden Files?
I remember when reading Le MOrte de Arthur that Three Faerie Queens appeared to Arthur at the moment of his death.
The Lady of the Lake is widely regarded as Fae, as is the Green Knight and the Fisher King.
King Arthur is also listed as one of the Leaders of the Wild Hunt according to some sources.
Any other ideas or moments when Arthurian Myths appear in the Dresden Files? Or ones that you wish to appear in the Dresden Files?
94
DF Spoilers / Supernatural Nations you'd like to see.
« on: May 02, 2018, 02:24:31 AM »
Jim has done a good job of setting up several supernatural nations and figures from the Red Court, the Fae both Courts, Monoc Securities, The White Council, The Fomor.
Is their any nation or figure from myth and legend you'd like to see included in the Dresden verse?
For me personally I'd like to see what Drakul is capable of and whether or not he has a small army at his command.
I'd also like to see Peter Pan and Jack Frost as minor nobility in the Summer and Winter Courts respectively as personification of youth in both seasons.
Any other figures or nations anyone can think of?
Is their any nation or figure from myth and legend you'd like to see included in the Dresden verse?
For me personally I'd like to see what Drakul is capable of and whether or not he has a small army at his command.
I'd also like to see Peter Pan and Jack Frost as minor nobility in the Summer and Winter Courts respectively as personification of youth in both seasons.
Any other figures or nations anyone can think of?
95
DF Spoilers / Which Denarian Coin would you choose?
« on: April 07, 2018, 05:09:53 AM »
For me it'd be Namshiel from what little we know of him he's a powerful sorceror and could teach Polonius Lartessa.
96
DF Spoilers / To the cops of Chicago do the Alpha's seem like a gang?
« on: December 14, 2017, 12:01:41 AM »
I'm sure none of the Alpha's are stupid enough to sell drugs or do any stupid illegal profit shit that could get them sent to prison. However cops would have noticed the downturn in crime in the radius of the Campus. WOuld they assume those long term academics run the campus and make sure no hard shit goes down. and therefore would they assume the Alpha's are a gang to be kept an eye on?
Possibly run by one Harry Dresden an independent contractor who sometimes works for Gentlemen Johnny Marcone sometimes against him.
Harry Dresden is protected by former cop Karrin Murphy who has a dodgy reputation on the police force.
*shrug* from what I know of Chicago culture it seems a pretty accurate representation of the socio economic system.
Possibly run by one Harry Dresden an independent contractor who sometimes works for Gentlemen Johnny Marcone sometimes against him.
Harry Dresden is protected by former cop Karrin Murphy who has a dodgy reputation on the police force.
*shrug* from what I know of Chicago culture it seems a pretty accurate representation of the socio economic system.
97
DF Spoilers / What happened to the rest of the Alpha's?
« on: November 14, 2017, 01:45:15 AM »
I've been thinking really that the Alpha's went from a pack of a dozen who went through at least two trial by fire's together, to about four or five at most.
The War Buddy Bond is tough to crack.
So what exactly happened to cause the Alpha's to split up. Because right now I'm thinking Billy's a pretty shit Alpha of the Alpha's if he lets 12 pack go down to 4 after they've already been through some bonding experience together.
We do have this WOJ.
quote=Jim Butcher]Q: What happened to the other Alphas?
A: Like happens with a lot of kids after college, they graduated and went their separate ways. Some of them wrote off the whole experience as the result of taking drugs in college. One ended up super religious. One ended up institutionalized. Given Kirby’s death, Billy is going to try to track down some of the group[/quote]
What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.
The War Buddy Bond is tough to crack.
So what exactly happened to cause the Alpha's to split up. Because right now I'm thinking Billy's a pretty shit Alpha of the Alpha's if he lets 12 pack go down to 4 after they've already been through some bonding experience together.
We do have this WOJ.
quote=Jim Butcher]Q: What happened to the other Alphas?
A: Like happens with a lot of kids after college, they graduated and went their separate ways. Some of them wrote off the whole experience as the result of taking drugs in college. One ended up super religious. One ended up institutionalized. Given Kirby’s death, Billy is going to try to track down some of the group[/quote]
What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.
98
DF Spoilers / Marcone Manipulating Harry.
« on: November 11, 2017, 02:31:44 AM »
Marcone Manipulates Harry to deal with all of his Supernatural threats. Beginning in Storm Front Marcone was trying to get Harry to work for him, but I think this entire time he just figured out a way to get Harry to work for him for free.
Think about it Victor Sells- threat to his business and his life.
The Hexenwolf FBI who were on a task force to stop him, the Lycanthropes Biker Gang who were a threat Organised Crime wise, The Loup Garou who was blocking his development project.
Bianca who had the best Escort agency in town who Marcone somehow managed to steal away from the White Court despite the fact that White Court deal in Lust (I suspect he gives them 10% out of courtesy).
Death Masks Harry tracks down the Shroud for him.
Blood Rites Dresden cripples the White Court and saves a bunch of kids. Dead Beat Marcone gives him a direct hint to someone who has hurt one of his employee's.
White Night Marcone gets Harry to make him a Freeholding Lord.
Small Favour- Enough said.
Changes Harry takes down the Red COurt which was in Marcones best interest.
Ghost Story Harry prevents a minor noble of the Fomor and previous enemy from posing a serious threat to Chicago.
Cold Days- Prevention of the Apocalypse.
Skin Game- Marcone gets his own private swiss bank (every mobsters dream) of Supernatural creatures, favour with Mab, gets back at Nicodemus and gets a box full of Diamonds.
Face it Harry you work for Marcone for free.
Think about it Victor Sells- threat to his business and his life.
The Hexenwolf FBI who were on a task force to stop him, the Lycanthropes Biker Gang who were a threat Organised Crime wise, The Loup Garou who was blocking his development project.
Bianca who had the best Escort agency in town who Marcone somehow managed to steal away from the White Court despite the fact that White Court deal in Lust (I suspect he gives them 10% out of courtesy).
Death Masks Harry tracks down the Shroud for him.
Blood Rites Dresden cripples the White Court and saves a bunch of kids. Dead Beat Marcone gives him a direct hint to someone who has hurt one of his employee's.
White Night Marcone gets Harry to make him a Freeholding Lord.
Small Favour- Enough said.
Changes Harry takes down the Red COurt which was in Marcones best interest.
Ghost Story Harry prevents a minor noble of the Fomor and previous enemy from posing a serious threat to Chicago.
Cold Days- Prevention of the Apocalypse.
Skin Game- Marcone gets his own private swiss bank (every mobsters dream) of Supernatural creatures, favour with Mab, gets back at Nicodemus and gets a box full of Diamonds.
Face it Harry you work for Marcone for free.
99
DF Spoilers / Harry is most like (Favourite DC superhero)?
« on: October 23, 2017, 11:10:18 AM »
So who do you think he's most like?
The most obvious would be Batman. Both Batman and Dresden have a primary city filled with organised crime, that Batman has a tense but occasionally working relationship with in order to focuse on fighting the various chaotic and more insane characters that threaten his city.
As it stands Dresden even has his own Alfred, his own Arkham Asylum and his own Batcave. As well as a League of like minded heroes whom at one point or another were his students to one extent or another.
Of course the primary argument against this is Batmans chief trait as co leader of the justice league which is that he's non superpowered. There's also the fact that Murphy is notably the only member without any superpowers whatsoever, an interest in stopping crime.
Plus there's the fact that Murphy shotgunned Batman when she formed the Dresden League, when Harry died, not disimilar to how the Justice League by Batman is formed in some versions after Supermans death. Though this could also be how Batman was presumed dead and both the Justice League and the Batfamily had to survive without him when Batman is presumed dead.
So is Harry just too OP to be Batman. Which speaking of OP well Superman would definitely come to mind. Particularly how his enemies have to be increasingly OP'd to be a threat to him. Except perhaps Lex Luthor who prefers to use his intellect and way too complex scheme's to ever actually pull off to fight his arch enemy. Not disimilar to Nicodemus, although to be honest why Harry is his arch nemesis when it really should be the KotC is kind of a thematic imbalance, but only slightly as they have been a consistent enemy every five years like clock work.
What both Superman and Batman have in common is that they're guardians of their respective cities that increasingly are left vulnerable by his responsibilities on an international and even interplanetary level. The difference being of course that Batman entrusts his city to his former pupils and allies who are more or less capable of protecting it in his absence, while relying on the Justice League for the international level threats and to some extent the interplanetary ones, while leaving the intergalactic threats to the Green Lanterns.
One other major difference is that so far as to my knowledge neither Batman or Superman have sworn allegiance to nor served any evil cruel torturous or murderous beings in exchange for power. At least not for any lengthy period of time. Although arguably each has done so at one point or another I guess. Batman with Ra's al Ghul in particular. Don't know Supermans lore well enough to pick an example off the top of my head. Did he ever swear allegiance to Zod?
Anyway in the end those are my two votes and why.
(It should be noted that Harry's smart mouth and pop culture references also make Flash and Hal Jordon prime candidates)
The most obvious would be Batman. Both Batman and Dresden have a primary city filled with organised crime, that Batman has a tense but occasionally working relationship with in order to focuse on fighting the various chaotic and more insane characters that threaten his city.
As it stands Dresden even has his own Alfred, his own Arkham Asylum and his own Batcave. As well as a League of like minded heroes whom at one point or another were his students to one extent or another.
Of course the primary argument against this is Batmans chief trait as co leader of the justice league which is that he's non superpowered. There's also the fact that Murphy is notably the only member without any superpowers whatsoever, an interest in stopping crime.
Plus there's the fact that Murphy shotgunned Batman when she formed the Dresden League, when Harry died, not disimilar to how the Justice League by Batman is formed in some versions after Supermans death. Though this could also be how Batman was presumed dead and both the Justice League and the Batfamily had to survive without him when Batman is presumed dead.
So is Harry just too OP to be Batman. Which speaking of OP well Superman would definitely come to mind. Particularly how his enemies have to be increasingly OP'd to be a threat to him. Except perhaps Lex Luthor who prefers to use his intellect and way too complex scheme's to ever actually pull off to fight his arch enemy. Not disimilar to Nicodemus, although to be honest why Harry is his arch nemesis when it really should be the KotC is kind of a thematic imbalance, but only slightly as they have been a consistent enemy every five years like clock work.
What both Superman and Batman have in common is that they're guardians of their respective cities that increasingly are left vulnerable by his responsibilities on an international and even interplanetary level. The difference being of course that Batman entrusts his city to his former pupils and allies who are more or less capable of protecting it in his absence, while relying on the Justice League for the international level threats and to some extent the interplanetary ones, while leaving the intergalactic threats to the Green Lanterns.
One other major difference is that so far as to my knowledge neither Batman or Superman have sworn allegiance to nor served any evil cruel torturous or murderous beings in exchange for power. At least not for any lengthy period of time. Although arguably each has done so at one point or another I guess. Batman with Ra's al Ghul in particular. Don't know Supermans lore well enough to pick an example off the top of my head. Did he ever swear allegiance to Zod?
Anyway in the end those are my two votes and why.
(It should be noted that Harry's smart mouth and pop culture references also make Flash and Hal Jordon prime candidates)
100
DF Spoilers / Psychology, Pietrovich and DuMorne
« on: October 20, 2017, 01:12:44 AM »
I was just wondering given that Psychology was just being invented by Carl Jung and SIgmund Freud at the time that DuMorne was an apprentice to Simon Pietrovich and in particular Psychology's effect on pre, during and post World War 1/ Russian Revolution. Several of Jung's notable theories took particular hold in Russia. Arguably the Soviet Union had more success with psychological experiments then the CIA did.
All of this seems a hell of a coincedence given DuMornes proficiency with min magic and enthrallment. Combined with what we know of Pietrovich in Paranet Papers. Not too mention the popular theory that Cowl is Simon Pietrovich himself.
How much influence did early Psychology have on Pietrovich and his apprentices at Archangel during this time. And did it contribute to DuMornes Enthrallment of Elaine.
Certainly DuMorne shows great psychological insight in perfectly manipulating Harry and Elaine as first loves, and despite Harry's well justified complaints DuMorne did teach both to be quite remarkable Wizards equal to or better than most Wardens. We also do know from Ghost Story that he does have happy memories of DuMorne and loved him a great deal.
I imagine The White Council would have been nervous about this growing practice of mundane meddling into peoples minds, souls, hearts, consciousness, fears, desires, dreams and subconsciousness. We know from Paranet Papers Simon Pietrovich got increasingly involved in mundane affairs around this time, we also know that a certain apprentice mind thralled an assassination attempt on Rasputin (where incidentally he was made Winter Knight) they certainly were the White Councils source of information in Eastern Europe.
The Brute Squad of Archangels had it's beginning here in World War 1 and the Russian Revolution and were active up until Kemmlers final defeat, when Justin DuMorne picked up a spirit of intellect as an aide. So given how active they were during psychology's rise in the late 19th and early to mid 20th century.
To what degree did SImon Pietrvich, Justin DuMorne and the Brute Squad of Archangel know of or Employ Psychology?
All of this seems a hell of a coincedence given DuMornes proficiency with min magic and enthrallment. Combined with what we know of Pietrovich in Paranet Papers. Not too mention the popular theory that Cowl is Simon Pietrovich himself.
How much influence did early Psychology have on Pietrovich and his apprentices at Archangel during this time. And did it contribute to DuMornes Enthrallment of Elaine.
Certainly DuMorne shows great psychological insight in perfectly manipulating Harry and Elaine as first loves, and despite Harry's well justified complaints DuMorne did teach both to be quite remarkable Wizards equal to or better than most Wardens. We also do know from Ghost Story that he does have happy memories of DuMorne and loved him a great deal.
I imagine The White Council would have been nervous about this growing practice of mundane meddling into peoples minds, souls, hearts, consciousness, fears, desires, dreams and subconsciousness. We know from Paranet Papers Simon Pietrovich got increasingly involved in mundane affairs around this time, we also know that a certain apprentice mind thralled an assassination attempt on Rasputin (where incidentally he was made Winter Knight) they certainly were the White Councils source of information in Eastern Europe.
The Brute Squad of Archangels had it's beginning here in World War 1 and the Russian Revolution and were active up until Kemmlers final defeat, when Justin DuMorne picked up a spirit of intellect as an aide. So given how active they were during psychology's rise in the late 19th and early to mid 20th century.
To what degree did SImon Pietrvich, Justin DuMorne and the Brute Squad of Archangel know of or Employ Psychology?
101
DF Spoilers / Archangels to Fallen Angels
« on: September 30, 2017, 07:23:32 AM »
Okay so across multiple denominations there are usually seven archangels the earliest source is book of Enoch. They are Michael (Sunday), Gabriel (Monday), Raphael (Tuesday), Uriel (Wednesday), Raguel (Thursday), Remiel (Friday; Who fell from Grace) and Sariel (Saturday)
The first four we know, interestingly some early myths attribute a Sammael with falling from Grace which could be either Remiel or Sariel depending on whose mispronouncing it with a heavy inflicted accent. I'm assuming the two got mixed up a lot by various translators over the years and may even have started out as the same being.
Similarly Raphael and Raguel who in addition to their similar names seem to share much the same duties. Both police demons and fallen angels binding them when they step over the line.
When I started this topic I was going to theorise two of the Archangels had either died or fallen with Lucifer. My main evidence being. Anduriel and Lasciel.
Thanks to a http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,45443.0.html which I encourage you to read as a thorough background for this topic.
Anduriel:Etymology:
Latin, An- (without) + Hebrew, Uri'el (Light of God).
"Shadow of God" or "God is My Shadow"
Griffyn612
Etymology:
Latin, An- (without) + Hebrew, Duri'el (God is My Home, I Live in Heaven).
"Apart From God" or "Fallen From Heaven"
peregrine
Etymology:
Combination of Andariel and Duriel (fictional angels from Diablo).
Dina
DF Title:
"Master of Shadows"
This is in addition to his title being Shadowmaster, which as Kringle confirmed means spy master. My theory is that Anduriel used by The Uriel. The one who killed firs borns and seven plagues of Egypt. He rebelled and changed his nature, his will to the point that he made himself for the opposite purpose he was for. Lucifer fearing a fellow Archangel in Hell banished him to the mortal plane.
Our current Uriel inherited the mantle and as the youngest Archangel can interact with particular humans more readily then the others can (which I imagine they're jealous about). Anduriels true goal therefore isn't the fight against Outsiders but to be released from his coin, back to his former glory and beyond. Which I suspect he originally didn't want competition from Outsiders, but by the end of the series will use them to further his goals betraying Nicodemus and his own nature once and for all.
Lasciel:Etymology:
Latin, lascivus (wanton) + Hebrew, El (God).
"Wanton(ness) of God"
Etymology:
Latin, lascivious (lustful) + Hebrew, El (God).
"Lustfulness of God"
DF Title:
"Seducer", "Webweaver", "Temptress"
Sigil:
"Reminiscent of an hourglass"
Combat Form:
"her clothing just . . . dissolved, like so much smoke, into a clinging, purplish mist that drifted around her in spiraling tendrils— not so much for modesty as for accent, yet for the most part, covering her most delicate parts with the same coyness as a fan dancer’s feathers."
Status of Coin:
Inactive (in Underworld of Hades)
Known Hosts:
Hannah Ascher
Lore Refs:
Possibly a thematic reference to the Babylonian goddess Ishtar. Ishtar seduced and destroyed many lovers before being rejected by the hero Gilgamesh, who she then attempted to murder. Ishtar was slain in the Underworld after removing her clothes to pass through the gates and becoming enraged. (Later resurrected, when all sexual activity on Earth stopped in her absence.)
Lore Refs:
Sigil may be reference to a woman-as-spider/seducer motif, relating title of "Webweaver" to a black widow's thorax.
Now bear with me cause this ones slightly thinner. Lashiel is again a spy master though in choosing her own nature she was careful to select Webweaver and a spider as her sigil. Spider is also a term of a spymaster. But Webweaver has also enough nuance of definition to apply to magic as well. Weave a spell together was often done by weaving silk or needles in myth and folklore and was a basis of witchcraft.
In addition several myths of Lucifer's fall attribute it to his falling in love or atleast in lust depending on the version with a woman. In some versions she's a fellow angel, in others she's a demon in many of the original myths she was among the humans that the Grigori fell for. It's literally where the term falling in love comes from. Falling from the heavens from God's grace because you are so enraptured with love for a human. In any case in most modern adaption this figure Lucifer fell for is often Identified with Lilith- Adams first wife and according to some Lucifers first conversion into a demon.
I believe Jim took inspiration from these myths and created a sympathetic version of Lilith within the Dresden Files. I don't believe she was necessarily an Archangel but according to woj. She was one of the ones sitting on the fence during the rebellion possibly in part because of her torn love between God and Lucifer.
Finally lets look at Lucifer himself.
Lucifer:Non-DF Etymology:
Lucifer. Latin, Lux (light) + Ferrous (bearing).
"Light-bearing" or "Lightbringer".
Non-literal: "Morningstar", "Daystar", "Shining One", "Shining Star."
Non-DF Etymology:
Satan. Hebrew, Satan.
"Adversary".
Non-DF Etymology:
Samael. Hebrew, Sama'el.
"Venom of God".
Warden John Marcone
DF Title:
"The Dark Prince", "The Prince of Fucking Darkness", "Father of Lies", "Darkest Shadow"
Warden John Marcone, Griffyn612, wizard nelson, peregrine
Lore Refs:
Fallen archangel or angel in most Judeo-Christian religious traditions. Jinn in Islamic traditions.
Lore Refs:
Samael is regarded as a different entity, an archangel of death, in most contemporary sources.
ok note the bolded, underlined and italics section. Lux (light) Ferrous (Bearing). LightBearing. lets just switch them around a bit like Lasciel did in Dead Beat and create another anagram FerrousLux another word for Lux or Light by the way is Fax. FerrousFax= Ferrofax. = Mr. Ferro = One of the Last true remaining Dragons = Lucifer and Sammael are often both equated as serpents who can fly with the gift of fire= Dragon. Capital D.
oh and also Michael Carpenter is clearly Michael the Archangel made human as a reward so he can have a righteous life on earth with a family he loves and cares for.
The first four we know, interestingly some early myths attribute a Sammael with falling from Grace which could be either Remiel or Sariel depending on whose mispronouncing it with a heavy inflicted accent. I'm assuming the two got mixed up a lot by various translators over the years and may even have started out as the same being.
Similarly Raphael and Raguel who in addition to their similar names seem to share much the same duties. Both police demons and fallen angels binding them when they step over the line.
When I started this topic I was going to theorise two of the Archangels had either died or fallen with Lucifer. My main evidence being. Anduriel and Lasciel.
Thanks to a http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,45443.0.html which I encourage you to read as a thorough background for this topic.
Anduriel:Etymology:
Latin, An- (without) + Hebrew, Uri'el (Light of God).
"Shadow of God" or "God is My Shadow"
Griffyn612
Etymology:
Latin, An- (without) + Hebrew, Duri'el (God is My Home, I Live in Heaven).
"Apart From God" or "Fallen From Heaven"
peregrine
Etymology:
Combination of Andariel and Duriel (fictional angels from Diablo).
Dina
DF Title:
"Master of Shadows"
This is in addition to his title being Shadowmaster, which as Kringle confirmed means spy master. My theory is that Anduriel used by The Uriel. The one who killed firs borns and seven plagues of Egypt. He rebelled and changed his nature, his will to the point that he made himself for the opposite purpose he was for. Lucifer fearing a fellow Archangel in Hell banished him to the mortal plane.
Our current Uriel inherited the mantle and as the youngest Archangel can interact with particular humans more readily then the others can (which I imagine they're jealous about). Anduriels true goal therefore isn't the fight against Outsiders but to be released from his coin, back to his former glory and beyond. Which I suspect he originally didn't want competition from Outsiders, but by the end of the series will use them to further his goals betraying Nicodemus and his own nature once and for all.
Lasciel:Etymology:
Latin, lascivus (wanton) + Hebrew, El (God).
"Wanton(ness) of God"
Etymology:
Latin, lascivious (lustful) + Hebrew, El (God).
"Lustfulness of God"
DF Title:
"Seducer", "Webweaver", "Temptress"
Sigil:
"Reminiscent of an hourglass"
Combat Form:
"her clothing just . . . dissolved, like so much smoke, into a clinging, purplish mist that drifted around her in spiraling tendrils— not so much for modesty as for accent, yet for the most part, covering her most delicate parts with the same coyness as a fan dancer’s feathers."
Status of Coin:
Inactive (in Underworld of Hades)
Known Hosts:
Hannah Ascher
Lore Refs:
Possibly a thematic reference to the Babylonian goddess Ishtar. Ishtar seduced and destroyed many lovers before being rejected by the hero Gilgamesh, who she then attempted to murder. Ishtar was slain in the Underworld after removing her clothes to pass through the gates and becoming enraged. (Later resurrected, when all sexual activity on Earth stopped in her absence.)
Lore Refs:
Sigil may be reference to a woman-as-spider/seducer motif, relating title of "Webweaver" to a black widow's thorax.
Now bear with me cause this ones slightly thinner. Lashiel is again a spy master though in choosing her own nature she was careful to select Webweaver and a spider as her sigil. Spider is also a term of a spymaster. But Webweaver has also enough nuance of definition to apply to magic as well. Weave a spell together was often done by weaving silk or needles in myth and folklore and was a basis of witchcraft.
In addition several myths of Lucifer's fall attribute it to his falling in love or atleast in lust depending on the version with a woman. In some versions she's a fellow angel, in others she's a demon in many of the original myths she was among the humans that the Grigori fell for. It's literally where the term falling in love comes from. Falling from the heavens from God's grace because you are so enraptured with love for a human. In any case in most modern adaption this figure Lucifer fell for is often Identified with Lilith- Adams first wife and according to some Lucifers first conversion into a demon.
I believe Jim took inspiration from these myths and created a sympathetic version of Lilith within the Dresden Files. I don't believe she was necessarily an Archangel but according to woj. She was one of the ones sitting on the fence during the rebellion possibly in part because of her torn love between God and Lucifer.
Finally lets look at Lucifer himself.
Lucifer:Non-DF Etymology:
Lucifer. Latin, Lux (light) + Ferrous (bearing).
"Light-bearing" or "Lightbringer".
Non-literal: "Morningstar", "Daystar", "Shining One", "Shining Star."
Non-DF Etymology:
Satan. Hebrew, Satan.
"Adversary".
Non-DF Etymology:
Samael. Hebrew, Sama'el.
"Venom of God".
Warden John Marcone
DF Title:
"The Dark Prince", "The Prince of Fucking Darkness", "Father of Lies", "Darkest Shadow"
Warden John Marcone, Griffyn612, wizard nelson, peregrine
Lore Refs:
Fallen archangel or angel in most Judeo-Christian religious traditions. Jinn in Islamic traditions.
Lore Refs:
Samael is regarded as a different entity, an archangel of death, in most contemporary sources.
ok note the bolded, underlined and italics section. Lux (light) Ferrous (Bearing). LightBearing. lets just switch them around a bit like Lasciel did in Dead Beat and create another anagram FerrousLux another word for Lux or Light by the way is Fax. FerrousFax= Ferrofax. = Mr. Ferro = One of the Last true remaining Dragons = Lucifer and Sammael are often both equated as serpents who can fly with the gift of fire= Dragon. Capital D.
oh and also Michael Carpenter is clearly Michael the Archangel made human as a reward so he can have a righteous life on earth with a family he loves and cares for.
102
DF Spoilers / Best adaptions of myth and folklore
« on: September 28, 2017, 04:20:09 AM »
Ok so I'm not going to make a poll yet as they're are too many to count, but personally I'm going to go with Rise of the Guardians.
Russian Warrior Santa with tattoos was brilliant.
Aussie Easter Bunny was good too, cause we do have a lot of rabbits. Though farmers hate them.
Sandman and tooth Faerie were Brilliant too.
Anyone else think Pitch Black would make for the perfect Outsider like Nemesis?
Jack Frost himself was great as a Canadian and counter point with the other northern figure of Russian Santa.
Santa's Yeti bodyguards and minion elves were great too. I want to apply it to the dresden verse and have Kringle have a Fae army of Yeti's and Svartalves in a toy factory fortress. He's the counter point to the Erlking and his Goblin army so it'd make sense.
Anyway what's your favourite modern adpation of myth and folklore. Other than Dresdenfiles. Special mention to Once Upon a Time.
Russian Warrior Santa with tattoos was brilliant.
Aussie Easter Bunny was good too, cause we do have a lot of rabbits. Though farmers hate them.
Sandman and tooth Faerie were Brilliant too.
Anyone else think Pitch Black would make for the perfect Outsider like Nemesis?
Jack Frost himself was great as a Canadian and counter point with the other northern figure of Russian Santa.
Santa's Yeti bodyguards and minion elves were great too. I want to apply it to the dresden verse and have Kringle have a Fae army of Yeti's and Svartalves in a toy factory fortress. He's the counter point to the Erlking and his Goblin army so it'd make sense.
Anyway what's your favourite modern adpation of myth and folklore. Other than Dresdenfiles. Special mention to Once Upon a Time.
103
Cinder Spires Spoilers / jims cats are making an appearance
« on: September 25, 2017, 02:20:21 PM »
Jims cats are making an appearance in cinder spires. There are five of them. Ben is getting a personal assassin of one.
Check out the dragon con vid for the info. On my phone so I'll link it in the morning.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQDTvMv1otI
The 41 minute mark.
Commodore bontemp will be commodore bayards cut.
Ninja cut will be a shadow like Rowls girlfriend.
And benedicts cat zatara will be benedicts serial killer cat.
Check out the dragon con vid for the info. On my phone so I'll link it in the morning.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQDTvMv1otI
The 41 minute mark.
Commodore bontemp will be commodore bayards cut.
Ninja cut will be a shadow like Rowls girlfriend.
And benedicts cat zatara will be benedicts serial killer cat.
104
DF Spoilers / Grimm Fairy Tales
« on: September 24, 2017, 02:14:08 AM »
I've downloaded half a dozen versions on kindle I've yet to find one with anything 'grimm' the definitional word in them nor one that isn't heavily Christianised. At least one tale is consistant in that it replaces a powerful Fae Godmother with the Virgin Mary. There's also tales about a girl in heaven who unlocked the thirteenth door when she was told not to but she was 14 and curious so she did and the Virgin Mary cast her down from heaven, muted her and kidnapped three of her children until she repented.
Yet to find the legendary Grimm and Gruesome tales of Cinderella's Step-sisters cutting off their own feet. I've download 1810 and 1812 translations, but I still seem to be getting the watered down version. Even though a couple are clearly academic standard discussing the merits and nuances of a particular word in German translated to English. Love those footnotes.
Anybody got any idea where I can find the legendary Grimm and Gruesome Fairy Tales that Mab commissioned?
Also so far very little mention of the Sidhe or any beings that could be them. Though I see a few Toot like sprites pop up now and again.
Yet to find the legendary Grimm and Gruesome tales of Cinderella's Step-sisters cutting off their own feet. I've download 1810 and 1812 translations, but I still seem to be getting the watered down version. Even though a couple are clearly academic standard discussing the merits and nuances of a particular word in German translated to English. Love those footnotes.
Anybody got any idea where I can find the legendary Grimm and Gruesome Fairy Tales that Mab commissioned?
Also so far very little mention of the Sidhe or any beings that could be them. Though I see a few Toot like sprites pop up now and again.
105
DF Spoilers / Denarian Dresden
« on: September 07, 2017, 06:54:48 PM »
Okay so we've got an expanded answer on what would've happened if Dresden had taken up Lasciels coin in Changes, instead of Mab or Kemmler's Darkhallow. I personally think he should have gone with Lasciel as a better choice than Mab.
First there's this WOJ from a Reddit AMA last year.
Now here's me transcribing what Jim has said recently in the Dragon Con vide with thanks to Priscille for recording it. Looking forward to the fan video of Dresden vs Vampires!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQDTvMv1otI
My reasoning for wanting Lasciel is because I enjoyed her character through the books she appeared with in fact they were my favourite things about the books she appeared in. Her conversations with Harry were great and inticing, and she really was useful as resevoir of information and recording.
I also find Lasciel to be a much more interesting character and characterisation than Mab.
Also I feel like Jim knows more about Angelic Folklore than Faery Folklore, and I'm very much interested on his characterisations of Angelic types, despite being an Atheist myself. Getting an Atheist interested in books revolving around God even fictional portrayals of them isn't easy.
I also would've loved to find more about the various Denarians both as a whole and as individuals and finally learn a few more names to add to the compendium.
Finally we have these series of hints in which Lash may make a comback. She definitely would've featured more prominently in a series featuring Lasciel.
So yes personally I'd have been interested to see how things would've turned out had Harry gone down this route.
First there's this WOJ from a Reddit AMA last year.
Quote from: jim butcher
Scanning back on it, if the Denarians had been involved, Harry would probably have had to lean more toward Lasciel as his get-out-of-paralysis-free card, and Nicodemus as his new best frenemy rather than Mab, in order to make the whole thing work out. He would have instantly come into conflict with Sanya, as well, over the possession of the Swords, and maybe with Murphy as well. Molly would have had to make a really horrible choice at that point, and probably would have walked out of it even more guilty and more ready to destroy herself after Harry's shooting. She probably would have wound up a Denarian herself.
Wow, that's a dark story. Who would come up with something like that? What's wrong with you?
Now here's me transcribing what Jim has said recently in the Dragon Con vide with thanks to Priscille for recording it. Looking forward to the fan video of Dresden vs Vampires!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQDTvMv1otI
Quote from: jim butcher dragon con 2017 38-41 minutes in
He chose Mab as the most predictable evil not the least evil but the most reliable one
"Had he gone with Lasciel essentially she would have been his black magic tutor, Bob would've had a huge crush she would've been around him all the time it would've been her keeping him alive in the next book, although it would've been a slightly different book and then he would've been dealing with Nicodemus as a frenemies, on a consistancy basis he still had to deal with them as frenemies in Skin Game anyway so.
It would've been much different he would've had much different temptations Lasciel would've been trying to isolate him from his friends, actively isolating him unlike Mab whose waiting on entropy doing the job for her. It would've been a much harsher story but a lot more sex too.. sales would've been fine.
My reasoning for wanting Lasciel is because I enjoyed her character through the books she appeared with in fact they were my favourite things about the books she appeared in. Her conversations with Harry were great and inticing, and she really was useful as resevoir of information and recording.
I also find Lasciel to be a much more interesting character and characterisation than Mab.
Also I feel like Jim knows more about Angelic Folklore than Faery Folklore, and I'm very much interested on his characterisations of Angelic types, despite being an Atheist myself. Getting an Atheist interested in books revolving around God even fictional portrayals of them isn't easy.
I also would've loved to find more about the various Denarians both as a whole and as individuals and finally learn a few more names to add to the compendium.
Finally we have these series of hints in which Lash may make a comback. She definitely would've featured more prominently in a series featuring Lasciel.
Quote from: Jim Butcher
What roll will Lasciel play in future books?
That's going to be another one of those where I go "Hahaha, I know and you don't" because, you know, it's the whole, I want to provide for my family thing. Were're not done with Lasciel. We might not even be totally done with Lash, but we will have to see how that goes.
2009 Chicago signing:
Q: Will we see Lash or Lasciel again?
A: Lasciel’s story is not over. And keep in mind what’s said about ‘a woman scorned.’ Also keep in mind that Lasciel is NOT Lash; Lasciel did not reabsorb the entity that Harry actually changed. (Yes, he use those words “that Harry actually changed.”)
2009 Independence signing
Q: Was the voice in Harry’s head at the end of White Night (when he was playing guitar) a sign that Lash is still there?
A: Not really. But Lash’s story isn’t done.
2008 Comic-Con Q&A: @ about 6:11
Q: Does Lasciel's shadow get to heaven because she redeemed herself?
A: The answer to that is so much more complicated than is easy to give, especially without giving out extra story and ruining the fun. No. Lasciel's spirit didn't go to heaven. And now, (sing song) I'm not gona tell you. *mutters about heroin for writers* But it will come out, don't worry the story will be there.
So yes personally I'd have been interested to see how things would've turned out had Harry gone down this route.