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Messages - kamilion

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1
DFRPG / Re: A Non-Evil Denarian?
« on: April 14, 2011, 06:00:28 PM »
The appropriate costing of such a Catch, let alone whether such a Catch is appropriate in the first place, is a point of significant contention.  Tread carefully.

Quite agreed. By it's nature, FATE, even as expressed within DFRPG, is open to significant interpretation. I wouldn't have a problem with such a Catch in my game, which is why I threw it in above, but I could see others having an issue with it. Can't even disagree with their reasoning, in their game.

There are very few hard and fast "Thou shalt..." and "Thou shalt nots..." in this game, where the rules are concerned. Even the designers rarely lay out a hard and fast law.

2
DFRPG / Re: Gotta Stat These Up For A Game
« on: April 11, 2011, 12:33:28 AM »
They look like some type of specialized, intelligent undead. Perhaps the result of long, intensive ritual and experimentation by a powerful Kemmlerian sorcerer?

Or an elite death squad of ghouls?

I can think of quite a few fun things to do with those pictures. May have to work something up.

3
DFRPG / Re: The Bloody Skulls - Outlaw Biker Gang Vigilantes
« on: April 10, 2011, 02:22:07 AM »
Thoughts, suggestions, comments, criticism welcome.

4
DFRPG / Re: The Bloody Skulls - Outlaw Biker Gang Vigilantes
« on: April 09, 2011, 01:52:39 AM »
Smiley

High Concept: Infected Monster Hunting Biker
Other Aspects:  Outlaw Forever, Forever Outlaw; I've Stared Death In The Eye; It's Only Overconfidence If You Lose

Skills
Superb (2): Weapons, Athletics
Great (2): Driving, Endurance
Good (2): Discipline, Might
Fair (3): Burglary, Deceit, Alertness
Average (5): Stealth, Guns, Craftsmanship, Survival, Lore

Powers
(-1) Addictive Saliva
(-1) Blood Drinker
(+1) Feeding Dependency, affecting:
(-2) Inhuman Speed
(-2) Inhuman Recovery
(+0) The Catch: Sunlight, Holy Stuff (they make him uncomfortable, but don't cause damage unless he is full-on vamping out)

Stunts
(Driving) Sideswipe - Can use his bike to make an attack if moving.
(Weapons) Wall of Death
(Endurance) No Pain, No Gain
(Endurance) Tough Stuff

Stress
Physical 0000 (Extra Mild Consequence)
Mental 00
Social 00
Armor: 1 vs. blunt trauma.

Refresh: -9 (1 FP)

5
DFRPG / Re: The Bloody Skulls - Outlaw Biker Gang Vigilantes
« on: April 09, 2011, 01:52:08 AM »
Preacher Man

High Concept: Biker of Faith
Other Aspects: Outlaw Forever, Forever Outlaw; No Man Is Beyond Redemption; Monsters Shalt Suffer His Wrath

Skills
Superb (2): Conviction, Empathy
Great (2): Alertness, Presence
Good (2): Guns, Driving
Fair (3): Lore, Endurance, Scholarship
Average (5): Fists, Craftsmanship, Rapport, Resources, Athletics

Powers
(-1) Guide My Hand
(-1) Holy Touch
(-2) Righteousness

Stunts
(Conviction) Devout Words
(Empathy) Won't Get Fooled Again
(Presence) Leadership
(Presence) Personal Magnetism

Stress
Physical 000
Mental 0000 (Extra Mild Consequence)
Social 0000

Refresh: -8 (2 FP)

6
DFRPG / Re: The Bloody Skulls - Outlaw Biker Gang Vigilantes
« on: April 09, 2011, 01:50:56 AM »
Mad Wrench

High Concept: Denarian Biker Seeking Redemption
Trouble: Slippery Slope
Aspects: I Can Do Bad By Myself; Mad Wrench Is Mad With A Wrench; Knowledge Of Hell At My Command; Long, Hard Road; O.F.F.O - Outlaw Forever, Forever Outlaw

Skills
Superb: (2) Craftsmanship, Fists
Great: (2) Driving, Intimidation
Good: (2) Conviction, Endurance
Fair: (3) Discipline, Athletics, Alertness
Average: (5) Might, Guns, Lore, Resources, Weapons

Powers
(-1) Demonic Copilot
(-2) Inhuman Recovery
(+1) The Catch: Swords of the Cross
(-6) Modular Abilities (4 Refresh worth)

Stunts
(Craftsmanship) Bike Mechanic: +2 on Craftsmanship whenever dealing with a motorcycle or other bike, +1 on other personal vehicles (boats, cars, trucks, small aircraft).

Stress
Physical 0000
Mental 0000
Social 00

Power Level: Submerged
Refresh: -9 (1 FP)

------

Background: Son of rural farmers, raised in southern Illinois on a soybean farm. The farm eventually went under and was bought by an agricultural corporation. The family lost everything and ended up living poor in Chicago. Though he was intelligent, he did poorly in school due to discipline and anger issues. He eventually dropped out of school and went to work as a mechanic. It wasn't long before his talent fixing motorcycles go him involved with the Outlaws MC "one-percenter" outlaw motorcycle gang, where his instinct with mechanical things, impressive strength and durability, and disregard for rules served him well.

"I Can Do Bad By Myself"

Rising Conflict: Descended into an orgy of violence, sex, and drugs, becoming so vicious he was called Mad Wrench (for his trademark of beating offenders with a 2 ft. wrench and his ability to fix his constantly breaking down bike) and placed into the SS, the Outlaw MC's squad of killers and enforcers. It also served to handle any "wierd stuff" the gang would run into, masking it behind the other violence regularly committed by them. During a conflict with RCVs, his natural ferocity and rage were noticed by the captain of the SS, Lil'Satan. He was taken as Lil'Satan's protege and eventually inducted into the Red Skulls, a secret society supposedly dedicated to destroying supernatural threats, but truly serving as Lil'Satan's personal loyalists. As part of his induction in the Red Skulls, he was granted the token of membership - a tarnished silver coin.

"Mad Wrench is Mad With A Wrench"

First Story: Too independent to be submerged under the Fallen Guziel, he was still heavily influenced, like being permanently affected by supernatural PCP. Over the course of several years, he led a band of the SS in cleaning out a nest of RCV (connected to the ones mentioned previously) who had infiltrated the Chicago Outfit (mafia). He truly came into his own, the knowledge of Guziel and the power of the Fallen allowing him to demolish the RCV infestation.

"Knowledge Of Hell At My Command"

Guest Star: Preacher-Man 10 years passed, and Wrench became the 2nd in command of the SS, he and Lil'Satan ruling their own personal feifdom within the Outlaws. Lil'Satan implemented his plan, attempting to take over the mainstream Outlaws, starting with the assassination of their leadership, but Preacher-Man (a fellow Outlaw, but deeply faithful) interfered, the power of his Faith staggering the Fallen. Fully himself for the first time in many years, Wrench fled, finding himself in the poor, rundown neighborhood of his childhood, at his elderly parents' door. His parents were terrified of him, and his rage flared, ending in their deaths. Stricken, broken, he raged against his own downfall and the Fallen in his mind, who for the briefest of moments, expressed sorrow. Holy Man arrived with a few members of the SS; Wrench begged forgiveness, vowing to earn redemption. Rather than cast aside the coin, he seize\ds upon the brief moment of remorse, determined to redeem not only himself, but Guziel as well.

"Long, Hard Road"

Guest Star Redux: Smiley Wrench and Preach systematically set about destroying the Red Skull members of the Outlaw MC, aided by certain in-the-know members. Their pursuit of Lil'Satan took them to St. Louis, where the last of the Red Skulls were slain with the help of a former SS biker and RCV Infected, Smiley. Lil'Satan's coin was encased in concrete and sank beneath the Mississippi. Rather than return to the main club, Wrench, Preach, and Smiley received permission to open a new chapter, which Wrench dedicated to hunting down the supernatural (and sometimes mundane) predators. He hopes to do enough good to wash the blood from his hands, but he's still an Outlaw at heart, loyal to the only family he has left.

"O.F.F.O - Outlaw Forever, Forever Outlaw"

7
DFRPG / The Bloody Skulls - Outlaw Biker Gang Vigilantes
« on: April 09, 2011, 01:49:20 AM »
I'm slowly but steadily putting together a supernatural St. Louis, and sometimes I find ideas I want to throw in. This is one that was sparked by the "non-evil denarian" thread. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25166.0.html

I see these guys being similar to Wallace "Lizard" Gibbs from Baltimore (YS 380).



The Bloody Skulls

The Bloody Skulls are the St. Louis affiliate of the Outlaws MC motorcycle gang, a 1%er motorcycle club (as in, 99% of motorcycle clubs are law-abiding, and 1% are known for their criminal activities such as drug dealing, extortion, prostitution, and murder) with their home base in Chicago but with chapters world-wide. Their colors differ slightly from the traditional Outlaws colors, with the skull being red and the skull's eye sockets a bright green. They are a small club, consisting of only a dozen full members, led by three veteran members from the Chicago home chapter of the Outlaws MC. Although the Bloody Skulls are definitely an outlaw biker gang, with little respect for the law or social norms and with suspected connections to the drug and arms trade, they seem to be well-tolerated by the people within their territory.

The reason for this tolerance is simple - the Bloody Skulls are vigilantes who specialize in supernatural predators, though they aren't above dealing with human predators as well. Make no mistake, they are violent, unconcerned with legality, and willing to commit acts of brutality that would appall your average citizen. However, the members of the Bloody Skulls are forbidden to attack except in self-defense or in defense of their territory.

Origins
The Outlaws MC has a special group known as the SS, a group of bikers who serve as a kill squad, assassinating anyone who the club has decided needs to die. Unknown to most, they also serve to handle any supernatural dangers that threaten the club. In the past the SS had an inner circle known as the Bloody Skulls, led by two fiercely dangerous bikers known as Lil'Satan and Mad Wrench. Both of these psychotics were members of the Order of the Blackened Denarius, with plans to overthrow the Outlaws from the inside. That plan was thwarted with the aid of a True Believer and Outlaw member known as Preacher-Man, who's power of Faith was enough to free Mad Wrench from his thralldom.  In the aftermath, select members of the SS were chosen to hunt down Lil'Satan and his remaining Bloody Skulls, cleansing their taint from the club. When the hunt was over, the remaining hunters settled in St. Louis and started a new club as an affiliate of the Outlaws MC. Rumors say the leaders of the Outlaws don't want them to come home, but are unwilling to break their code to eject them, while the St. Louis chapter seems to be seeking some form of redemption for the sins of those who once used the name Bloody Skulls.

Membership
There are a dozen full-patch members of the Bloody Skulls in the club, with rarely any more than one probationary member at a time. Except for the three club founders and officers, all the members are locals. The Blood Skulls do not recruit and turn away most who apply - only someone hurt by the supernatural and looking for some pay back are admitted, and only if they can follow both the Outlaw code and the strict code of the Bloody Skulls. Unlike their parent club, the Bloody Skulls do not refuse women or non-whites. Anyone who challenges this faces the wrath of the Club President.

President: Mad Wrench
Vice-President: Preacher-Man
Sergeant-at-Arms: Smiley

8
DFRPG / Re: A Non-Evil Denarian?
« on: April 08, 2011, 11:12:13 PM »
Interesting character.  First off, a minor point: "The Catch: Swords of the Cross" isn't a Catch, since Swords of the Cross already satisfy every Catch.  You should be taking the standard Catch of Denarians, which is "Blessed swords, holy water, faith magic, that sort of thing."

Technically, a Sword of the Cross can be a Catch just fine.

Quote
YS 185 - "If it is bypassed by something only one or two people in the world have access to or could produce (like a Sword of the Cross), you get nothing." +0

Same page - "If knowledge of the Catch requires access to specific research material that could be restricted(like a wizard's library), you get a +1." +1 (Since you could find out the Swords of the Cross are designed for anti-Denarianism with access to the proper information).

A Sword of the Cross does not satisfy every Catch unless a fate point it spent. If it is the Catch for a Toughness/Recovery power, then it requires no fate point spent to satisfy that Catch, any more than a fate point is required for a Sword of the Cross to satisfy a Catch that is holy items, etc.

But that's just being technical.

I figured since he's not completely embracing Guziel's power, he's less vulnerable to general-purpose holiness, but the swords are aimed right at denarians.

Another thing you might want to consider is that your background makes it very clear that your character is very strong-willed, so much so that he is able to hold his ground in a battle of wills against his Fallen.  Yet your Conviction is 'Good' and your Discipline is 'Fair'.  I think that at least one of these should be significantly higher to represent your strength of will (and Discipline is probably the better choice).

Yeah, that's a good point, though I think of him as being more independent than strong-willed. Keep in mind, the idea behind this guy is that the Fallen is also seeking redemption, it's just not very good at it and tends to slide, making Wrench's desire for redemption all the more important.

I think that your big problem is going to be that if your GM handles your Denarian correctly, you will be (rightfully) compelled by your high concept at all of the most story-appropriate yet inconvenient times, and assuming your GM does so at the right times (ie, mostly at times when accepting the compel would be very troublesome), you will often have a shortage Fate with which to buy off the compel (assuming you have any at all).  By this, I mean that if your GM compels you to kick every puppy you see, then you will end up with a lot of terrified puppies and a pile of Fate to spend on the Important Stuff.  But if your GM waits until a key battle against your Nemesis, when your resources are nearly expended, then offers a Fate point and points out that the innocent little girl hiding in the corner would make a wonderful shield to protect you against those sprays of machine-gun fire...

Well, I'm the GM, actually, I just think the character is an interesting concept. And I strongly subscribe to the theory that compels exist to create drama and make life complicated, not to punish or cause arbitrary issues. I'd never compel a little-girl-shield... unless said little girl was the bad guy's little girl, and the Fallen was going for the most ruthless and practical solution.

Also worth noting that I don't tactically compel - whenever a situation seems fun and good for a compel, I toss one out. PCs can either buy it off or roll with it, as they choose.

All in all, I think you might be better off considering battling against your Fallen's shadow, rather than the Fallen itself.  Perhaps your character pulled a Dresden, and has hidden his coin out of reach, and figures that he'll take on the Shadow first, then if successful they can confront the Fallen 'together' (possibly by 'corrupting' the Fallen with the redemption of the Shadow)?

Shadow has been done though, I want to see some suffering and angst! Lol!

Regardless of what you decide, have fun with the character!

If nothing else, it'd be a cool NPC!

9
DFRPG / Re: A Non-Evil Denarian?
« on: April 08, 2011, 09:07:22 PM »
This is my outline for the denarian-seeking-redemption idea sparked earlier by Viatos. The skills, powers, and stunts could be shifted around pretty easily, I'd say, I just tossed some together.

Quote
High Concept: Denarian Biker Seeking Redemption
Trouble: Slippery Slope
Aspects: I Can Do Bad By Myself; Mad Wrench Is Mad With A Wrench; Knowledge Of Hell At My Command; Long, Hard Road; O.F.F.O - Outlaw Forever, Forever Outlaw

Skills:
Superb: (2) Craftsmanship, Fists
Great: (2) Driving, Intimidation
Good: (2) Conviction, Endurance
Fair: (3) Discipline, Athletics, Lore
Average: (5) Might, Guns, Lore, Resources, Weapons

Powers:
(-1) Demonic Copilot
(-2) Inhuman Recovery
(+1) The Catch: Swords of the Cross
(-6) Modular Abilities (4 Refresh worth)

Stunts:
(Craftsmanship) Bike Mechanic: +2 on Craftsmanship whenever dealing with a motorcycle or other bike, +1 on other personal vehicles (boats, cars, trucks, small aircraft).

Power Level: Submerged
Total Refresh: 1

------

Background: Son of rural farmers, raised in southern Illinois on a soybean farm. The farm eventually went under and was bought by an agricultural corporation. The family lost everything and ended up living poor in Chicago. Though he was intelligent, he did poorly in school due to discipline and anger issues. He eventually dropped out of school and went to work as a mechanic. It wasn't long before his talent fixing motorcycles go him involved with the Outlaws MC "one-percenter" outlaw motorcycle gang, where his instinct with mechanical things, impressive strength and durability, and disregard for rules served him well.

"I Can Do Bad By Myself"

Rising Conflict: Descended into an orgy of violence, sex, and drugs, becoming so vicious he was called Mad Wrench (for his trademark of beating offenders with a 2 ft. wrench and his ability to fix his constantly breaking down bike) and placed into the SS, the Outlaw MC's squad of killers and enforcers. It also served to handle any "wierd stuff" the gang would run into, masking it behind the other violence regularly committed by them. During a conflict with RCVs, his natural ferocity and rage were noticed by the captain of the SS, Lil'Satan. He was taken as Lil'Satan's protege and eventually inducted into the Red Skulls, a secret society supposedly dedicated to destroying supernatural threats, but truly serving as Lil'Satan's personal loyalists. As part of his induction in the Red Skulls, he was granted the token of membership - a tarnished silver coin.

"Mad Wrench is Mad With A Wrench"

First Story: Too independent to be submerged under the Fallen Guziel, he was still heavily influenced, like being permanently affected by supernatural PCP. Over the course of several years, he led a band of the SS in cleaning out a nest of RCV (connected to the ones mentioned previously) who had infiltrated the Chicago Outfit (mafia). He truly came into his own, the knowledge of Guziel and the power of the Fallen allowing him to demolish the RCV infestation.

"Knowledge Of Hell At My Command"

Guest Star: Preacher-Man 10 years passed, and Wrench became the 2nd in command of the SS, he and Lil'Satan ruling their own personal feifdom within the Outlaws. Lil'Satan implemented his plan, attempting to take over the mainstream Outlaws, starting with the assassination of their leadership, but Preacher-Man (a fellow Outlaw, but deeply faithful) interfered, the power of his Faith staggering the Fallen. Fully himself for the first time in many years, Wrench fled, finding himself in the poor, rundown neighborhood of his childhood, at his elderly parents' door. His parents were terrified of him, and his rage flared, ending in their deaths. Stricken, broken, he raged against his own downfall and the Fallen in his mind, who for the briefest of moments, expressed sorrow. Holy Man arrived with a few members of the SS; Wrench begged forgiveness, vowing to earn redemption. Rather than cast aside the coin, he seize\ds upon the brief moment of remorse, determined to redeem not only himself, but Guziel as well.

"Long, Hard Road"

Guest Star Redux: Smiley Wrench and Preach systematically set about destroying the Red Skull members of the Outlaw MC, aided by certain in-the-know members. Their pursuit of Lil'Satan took them to St. Louis, where the last of the Red Skulls were slain with the help of a former SS biker and RCV Infected, Smiley. Lil'Satan's coin was encased in concrete and sank beneath the Mississippi. Rather than return to the main club, Wrench, Preach, and Smiley received permission to open a new chapter, which Wrench dedicated to hunting down the supernatural (and sometimes mundane) predators. He hopes to do enough good to wash the blood from his hands, but he's still an Outlaw at heart, loyal to the only family he has left.

"O.F.F.O - Outlaw Forever, Forever Outlaw"

Thoughts?

Damn, now I have to start a new thread to make up a monster-hunting outlaw biker gang in St. Louis. Heh.

10
DFRPG / Re: Evil For Evil's Sake
« on: April 08, 2011, 08:40:01 PM »
... can creatures of the Nevernever act outside their nature by their own volition, assuming there is no interference from an outside, mortal force.

In my game, I'd say no. Spirit creatures, including faerie and anything wholly of the Nevernever, are locked into what they are, barring the outside agency of a mortal entity or a creature of greater power capable of altering their natures. Basically, they are permanently compelled by their High Concept.

Now, Jim B. has said that at the core of all faerie is a spark of a mortal, so I imagine they are more malleable than, say, a demon or a pure spirit (such as Bob), unless that demon or spirit was, by it's nature, malleable. Fun!

I do not, incidentally, see this as a component of Refresh, since a mortal with negative Refresh could still alter aspects, act outside their nature, etc, though not initially (can't buy off the first few compels, and should basically be self-compelling, but then could start working on it).

11
DFRPG / Re: Evil For Evil's Sake
« on: April 08, 2011, 08:32:50 PM »
But back on the topic of "is there Evil and Good" in the Dresdenverse, I think there is.  Dresden doesn't always recognise it when the forces of Good are moving but both absolutes exist in the books.  Then you have creatures like Mab, whose motivations are so obscure that she appears completely amoral.

The question isn't if there are absolute Good or Evil (though that is certainly an interesting debate, though probably more volatile), but rather a creature that is evil by nature, as viewed from human norms, capable of being other than evil; in other words, acting outside it's nature.

Put another way, can creatures of the Nevernever act outside their nature by their own volition, assuming there is no interference from an outside, mortal force.

Not looking for canon answers, more opinions on how you would do it in your personal Dresdenverse, and why or why not.

12
DFRPG / Re: Evil For Evil's Sake
« on: April 08, 2011, 03:36:12 PM »
If you'll allow me to rephrase the question...

'Is a spirit of kitten-eating-evil (as opposed to a spirit of intellect, or a spirit of air, as Bob is alternatingly described), evil by nature  (as Bob would be intelligent by nature)?'

Do I have it more-or-less right?

Yes, that basically sums it up. I guess it's really a question of how much free will something has when it is, by it's nature, evil, as viewed by humanity/mortal culture in general. I don't think there is much point to debating absolute evil or good, I'm more interested in a "from the PC" viewpoint.

To go with something less esoteric than a SoKE, how about the Malks? Described by Bob as "to cats what Hannibal Lecter is to people" (assuming more "cruel psychotic killer" than "eater of own kind"), and shown in Heorot to take great joy in terrifying pretty much everything and causing painful death. So I think we can call them evil.

Now, can you have a nice one? A malk sick of the "torture people like cats torture mice" game and out to instead protect little children and stray cats? To set ground rules, I'm not talking about a malk that has been altered by its interaction with a mortal of powerful will (Jim B. has mentioned that Toot-toot is changing due to his service to Harry, so that's an outside agency altering the spirit's nature). I'm talking about a malk who maybe started out to find some nice human children to torture and eat (or just torture), and got sick of the game and started protecting them.

Possible? Why? Why not?

13
DFRPG / Re: A Non-Evil Denarian?
« on: April 08, 2011, 01:36:44 AM »
It'll be a harrowing journey from there to redemption, but what's a PC without angst and long background arcs?

You know, I think that would actually be a really interesting character. A little demon within, maybe set it up a little like a changeling... hmm... yeah, that could be fun. I'm going to have to work something up for that, even if it's only as an NPC.

14
DFRPG / Re: A Non-Evil Denarian?
« on: April 06, 2011, 09:01:38 PM »
For clarification, my arguments earlier were primarily using the term "denarian" to refer to the Fallen in the coin, rather than the symbiotic organism created from a mortal + coin situation. So if you go back and replace Denarian with "Coin-Bound Fallen" in all my posts, it would make more sense, I suppose.

Yes, I definitely think a Denarian coin-bearer could be good, at least in the short term, but I think a Denarian spirit (the Fallen, specifically) could at best be a slightly sympathetic character on the path of evil.

Interesting semi-side note, there is nothing in the Bible about angels getting redemption. That bit is strictly for the humans, who were created with freedom of choice. Then again, it's an interesting conundrum as to how the angels were created to serve, without choice, yet seemed pretty good at choosing to rebel. Hrm.

15
DFRPG / Evil For Evil's Sake
« on: April 05, 2011, 04:18:47 AM »
So, I've been a busy bee in another thread (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25166.0.html), and it got me thinking about certain entities in the Dresdenverse being Evil For Evil's Sake. Basically, it seems that there are entities that would do terrible, horrible things that fit neatly into a human/mortal category of evil, for no other reason than because that is what they are.

They are sentient, self-aware, and capable of making decisions, but completely bound by their natures (courtesy of having negative refresh). I can totally see a Nevernever spirit slaughtering innocents, eating kittens, and kicking puppies simply because that is what they do.

So I toss the thought out to the forums; do you think these entities are Kitten-Eaters by nature, restricted in their sentience and awareness by the boundaries of their nature, or is there something more to it? I realize the question isn't very clear, I just thought it'd be an interesting discussion.

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