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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: tinom87 on April 17, 2023, 12:36:56 AM
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Hello folks, former poster that hasn't been back here for a long time. Wanted to throw some personal theories in here and get some feedback, see what the community as a whole thinks of them.
First theory: Denarian coins are NOT returned to circulation via divine will, but rather a lack of understanding of Nicodemus and the powers Anduriel grants him.
So we are told by Michael I believe that he thinks the coins are MEANT to be in circulation, that is why they always get recaptured by the Denarians; we also know however that very few people realize Nicodemus can hear anything said within hearing distance of a shadow AND he makes sure to destroy the church's records of him every so often. Thus, I believe the divine will theory is just what the church has come to theorize because they are regularly trusting people beyond repute with hiding/safeguarding the coins. Nicodemus uses Anduriel to find the coins and liberate them, the church has no idea how because only truly devout/pious type are entrusted with them and thus decide it must be divine will. The truth is they are just ignorant to the extent of which Nicodemus can infiltrate their top secret hidey holes through Anduriel.
Second theory: Kim Delaney is Kumori
As far as I know, the only thing we know about Kumori's character outside of her appearances is a WoJ that her identity will be really rough on Harry when it is revealed. I like Kim for Kumori for a few reasons: 1. she is described as tall as Kumori and Kim is described as "statuesque." 2. There is a really striking similarity/symmetry in how Dresden tries to warn Kim Delaney off the Macfinn case in Fool Moon and how Kumori tries to warn Dresden off the case against Cowl in Dead Beat. The two conversations mirror each other ridiculously closely, both instances of 1 person withholding information that would be incredibly important to the other but withholding that information because they think they're doing the right thing. 3. Kumori chose to save a random life for no reason other than it was the right thing to do, while also putting herself and her mission in jeopardy. Reminiscent of how Kumori tried to help Macfinn, no? Basic theory is Cowl is running around behind the scenes pulling strings in Chicago, loses an apprentice to Dresden (Sells) and then has Dresden meddling in another plan of his(hexenwolf belts). While surveilling the situation in Chicago he recognizes Delaney has untapped potential as well as insider info on the recurring Dresden problem and Chicago in general, he resurrects her to be his new apprentice and help him figure out how best to deal with Dresden.
Theory 3: the books follow a pattern.
The book patterns I have noticed and think might be getting fleshed out are:
Every 3rd Book is a Vampire focused book.
Every 4th book is a Fae focused book.
Every 5th book is a Denarian focused book.
Every 7th book is Black Council and will have a lead up to and climax on Halloween.
Every prime numbered book starting at 7 is a Black Council book.
What do you guys think?
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Theory 1 it’s not divine will it’s free will and I do not doubt Nick has been suborning members of the Catholic Church for millenia.
And probably posing as a vending machine repairman. The Vatican really should change over their vending machines to card only. Especially the ones in the gents toilets.
Theory 2 unlikely, Loupe Garou are unstoppable by magical means, and there’s no connection with Cowl.My bet is on Sarissa, her mother was a magic user and she is a Changeling, she could easily have had wizard level powers suppressed by something not unlike a nicer version of thorn manacles, or set them aside before meeting Harry in Cold Days and Nameless a member of the Winter Court was an associate of Kemmler, and would be able to teach all sorts of dark healing. He is my suspect for Cowl.
Theory 3 ignores the Peace Talk/Battle Ground split The Novella The Law and the additional bookTwelve Months which all bugger up the number order, besides Cowl and Kumori appear in Grave Peril and are quite clearly driving the events to nemfected Lea, set up the Red Court War etc. The pattern is I think is that Cowl is directly or indirectly in every case file, where he isn’t responsible for the A Story he is responsible for the B Story.
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#1:
Do we have any WoJ on how/why the coins are returned to circulation? Not just logistically, but in a cosmological sense?
I suspect that is part of their function...
But as a simple matter of logistics: Lash told Harry she could show him how to summon the Coin ... even though he had placed it behind the best wards he knew how to make, which was in a location miles away.
I suspect ALL the Coins can be summoned from the Church's possession, with similar ease.
I suspect that only a partnership (with a hosting KotBD), and/or a Fallen who's unwilling to be summoned, is capable of holding a coin in place, when the appropriate Summons is performed.
#2:
Interesting. It seems primarily predicated on:
(1) simple tallness (which seems insufficiently-rare)
(2) the whole "withholding clued-in info" (which almost everybody seems to do, e.g. Eb withholds from Harry, the Senior Council withholds from the WC rank-and-file, etc)
But Kim was a very-minor talent; despite any strategic usefulness (which may indeed have justified Cowl bringing her back; but only temporarily for a quick Q&A) I doubt he'd have made an apprentice of her; or for Kim herself to be capable of staving-off death that way (no matter the tutelage).
#3
There are some patterns (I think Jim himself has admitted to Denarians/5). But I don't think it has *that* many patterns, except as coincidence... it'd constrain Jim's overall metaplot too much, I think.
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Theory 1: I think the coins are meant to circulate, Nick could very well be using Andurial to find them and get them out... but I think that is at best shortening the time they are held for, and usually not by much. If this were the primary method of them getting out then Nick would have far more of them and the other Denarians wouldn't have so many... but we see Nicks wife with a stash too, I think they just get out, I think the fallen bend fate from inside the coins to get out... 1 in a million chances happen and someone touches one on accident... maybe without realizing it...
Most Knights are called for one event and stop serving (like Susan or Karen at chicken pizza) who is to say that most Denarians don't do the same... possibly with a mind wipe to forget they ever took up a coin or possibly never actually took up the coin, just got a shadow that took them... Nick tries to have Lash disable Harry when he knows Harry hasn't taken up the coin, so we know the shadows can do that at least.
Theory 2:
My bet is on Sarissa, her mother was a magic user and she is a Changeling, she could easily have had wizard level powers suppressed by something not unlike a nicer version of thorn manacles, or set them aside before meeting Harry in Cold Days and Nameless a member of the Winter Court was an associate of Kemmler, and would be able to teach all sorts of dark healing. He is my suspect for Cowl.
The one character who we KNOW has found someone who was Nemfected, found not one but TWO Nemfected individuals... I doubt Mab would miss the fact that Sarissa was Nemfected, and if she suspected Nameless of Nemfection she would deal with him... I don't think any theory that requires Mab miss Nemfection in someone close to her (and Sarissa is) is a great theory...
Kim Delaney is a reasonable guess for Kumori... not going to totally throw in on it, but reasonable guess... I approve.
Theory 3:
Theory 3 ignores the Peace Talk/Battle Ground split The Novella The Law and the additional bookTwelve Months which all bugger up the number order, besides Cowl and Kumori appear in Grave Peril and are quite clearly driving the events to nemfected Lea, set up the Red Court War etc. The pattern is I think is that Cowl is directly or indirectly in every case file, where he isn’t responsible for the A Story he is responsible for the B Story.
Agreed, also Dead Beat and Proven Guilty were swapped due to book 7 being the first Hardback... though who is to say which portions of Dead Beat were moved to Proven Guilty and visa versa... Nick shows up every 5 books (book 5, 10, 15...) and a word of Jim saying he will 'show up on schedule' before book 15... so there is something to the idea of X shows up every Y books but some of that was messed up with the swap of 7 and 8 and more of it with the split of 16, the swapping of 17 and 18 (Mirror Mirror and the Wrestling book were swapped around the time Peace Talks came out) and the insertion of twelve months...
So what was 16, 17, 18 became 16, BG, TM, 18, 17 and that pushes out the last of the case files too... so even Nick (the one clockwork thread we KNOW is true) may not be on schedule anymore.
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Actually no, Sarissa was never nemfected. Nameless as part of Maeve’s court doubtless manipulated Lloyd Slate engineering his betrayal and through Slate manipulated the changelings like Ace (the Red Caps son) and Sarissa (Mab’s daughter). For example Nameless trained Sarissa in magic to protect against Slate (after slicing Slate on her)and the enticement of dark healing because he needed a mortal wizard for some things and his intended candidate Elaine had vanished.
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Do we have any WoJ on how/why the coins are returned to circulation? Not just logistically, but in a cosmological sense?
I suspect that is part of their function...
But as a simple matter of logistics: Lash told Harry she could show him how to summon the Coin ... even though he had placed it behind the best wards he knew how to make, which was in a location miles away.
I suspect ALL the Coins can be summoned from the Church's possession, with similar ease.
I suspect that only a partnership (with a hosting KotBD), and/or a Fallen who's unwilling to be summoned, is capable of holding a coin in place, when the appropriate Summons is performed.
I think they get out because TWG WANTS them out. Likes to dangle a little temptation. Been doing it since Eden.
Harry calling for the Coin well, they are thru HARRY'S wards. She may simply know a way to reach thru your own wards. But maybe not someone else's.
Also possible Rome has figured out better wards than Harry knows over 2000 years. Or just had a better wards caster do them.
I think Nic has more coins because he is a plotter, schemer, and spymaster. He'd run moles and spies, a network, where some of the denarians are simple brutes. His wife is the same. I don't think it is the Fallen, it is their own nature.
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So it's actually not Michael, but Father Forthill who reveals this information.
Also, while Anduriel can hear and sometimes see out of any shadow, he can't do this out of every shadow. I highly doubt he can do it on consecrated ground like that of a church, given how hard it is for spiritual entities to even get onto church ground. Talk about a threshold.
Even if he could though, who's to say that isn't divine will? From what I understand of the series - it's all destiny through the privilege of free will. Humans make their choices with the gift of free will and that destiny comes into being. From what we have been told of The White God, I would say that's what he wants. Given that TWG is apparently omniscient and omnipotent, what could possibly happen outside the plan? What event that happens isn't divine will? Given that TWG would have always known everything that ever was and will happen and would have experienced all of time from beginning to end at the moment of Creation? Not only that, but has the power to do anything and change anything? If none of that is true, then that would mean that TWG isn't as all-powerful and all-knowing as is claimed. But that seems unlikely given Uriel's power level. That said, maybe there are very strange limits and loopholes too.
I don't mind the Kim Delaney theory. Definitely has some merit. What's Kim's connection to Cowl though? And why Kim over Harry (the strongest wizard in the city) or Mort or anyone else? What's Kim's connection to the dark side?
I like the numbers theory. The every fifth book is a Denarian theory is quite well known and practically confirmed by Jim. Not sure about the others. I don't remember vampires being a big part of Skin Game. I would also point out that Faeries are nearly in every book, same with Vampires earlier in the series (prior to Changes). And I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Black Council has it's fingerprints in every book in the series.
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Also, while Anduriel can hear and sometimes see out of any shadow, he can't do this out of every shadow. I highly doubt he can do it on consecrated ground like that of a church, given how hard it is for spiritual entities to even get onto church ground. Talk about a threshold.
It's not impossible, considering Lashiel was able to whisper her poisonous words in Harry's ear while he was sheltering at the Church. (Unless I'm misremembering.) I do agree that it should be a lot more difficult; maybe Harry's former link to her made enough of a connection for Lashiel to breach the threshold.
I like the Kim Delaney = Kumori theory. I'm not 100% sold on it, but there's a symmetry to it, and it would definitely cause Harry pain.
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I don't mind the Kim Delaney theory. Definitely has some merit. What's Kim's connection to Cowl though? And why Kim over Harry (the strongest wizard in the city) or Mort or anyone else? What's Kim's connection to the dark side?
I don't buy it, I think Kim was just as she presented, a kid with some talent, but much more ego than brains. Not unlike a lot of kids her age, full of herself and a good con artist. I don't think she had any connection to the dark side, if she had, I don't think she would have needed to go to Harry to try and con him into showing her how to make that circle, which she almost succeeded in doing.
Her connection to Finn had to do with her environmental activities and him being desperate after his circle was sabotaged, not some dark magic connection. Her mistake was the mistake so many make about a lot of things when they have no real understanding of how complicated something really is in spite of appearances.. Her attitude was, well, Harry can do it, I have talent too, "how hard can it be?" That was fatal, because that attitude prevented her from coming clean with Harry about why she needed the information. She had no clue really as to what a Loop was or could do, but that didn't stop her from fooling herself and keeping up the pretense to Finn that she could build that circle.
My question is who built that circle in the first place? Why wasn't Finn able to go to that person?
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From Wikipedia about wolves in mythology
Finnish
Unlike the fox and the bear, the wolf has been feared and hated in Finland for a long time. The wolf has been the symbol of destruction and desolation to the extent that the very word for wolf in the Finnish language, susi, also means "a useless thing", and the by-name hukka means perdition and annihilation. While the bear has been the sacred animal of the Finns, wolves have been hunted and killed mercilessly for a long time. The wolf has been represented as an implacable and malicious predator, killing more than it manages to eat.
We have seen the bear in The Law, this makes me think Nameless/Cowl was behind the HexenWulf Belts and may also been behind Harley McFinns original circle to unleash the Loupe Garou, and it’s vandalism. For all we know Spike was working for Nameless/Cowl, and informed the FBI of the Streetwoves, all to test Harry, and sow a little bit of Discord before Grave Peril.
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From Wikipedia about wolves in mythology
Finnish
Unlike the fox and the bear, the wolf has been feared and hated in Finland for a long time. The wolf has been the symbol of destruction and desolation to the extent that the very word for wolf in the Finnish language, susi, also means "a useless thing", and the by-name hukka means perdition and annihilation. While the bear has been the sacred animal of the Finns, wolves have been hunted and killed mercilessly for a long time. The wolf has been represented as an implacable and malicious predator, killing more than it manages to eat.
We have seen the bear in The Law, this makes me think Nameless/Cowl was behind the HexenWulf Belts and may also been behind Harley McFinns original circle to unleash the Loupe Garou, and it’s vandalism. For all we know Spike was working for Nameless/Cowl, and informed the FBI of the Streetwoves, all to test Harry, and sow a little bit of Discord before Grave Peril.
This feels like forced reasoning (starting with the answer and looking for a way to support it)... It reminds me of the ST:Voy episode where 7 of 9 sets the computer to download the ship logs into her mind every night and then the next day comes to the captain with a theory that the first officer is a traitor... the day after that comes to the first officer with a theory that the captain is a traitor... then the next day another theory... and for each theory she has a LOT of reasonable evidence that makes it sound reasonable... but lots of the same evidence is used in different theories to 'prove' different things and in the end all the theories turn out wrong and they shut down the download...
This is the same... you did some research and found something that can kind of be used to support your pet theory... but it is weak and just feels forced... sorry, no bite.
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...I don't mind the Kim Delaney theory. Definitely has some merit. What's Kim's connection to Cowl though? And why Kim over Harry (the strongest wizard in the city) or Mort or anyone else? What's Kim's connection to the dark side?
From the Denarian perspective, Kim's weakness -- her "dark side" -- would be pride (I suspect the same is true of most practioners (even the minor ones like Kim)).
I can see how Cowl could exploit that. But I don't see how that "dark side" makes her more-attractive to Cowl.
BUT...
She doesn't really need a "connection" to Cowl, or to a "dark side."
This theory rests entirely on Cowl's shoulders; Kim would be the innocent victim here.
The odds are very high that if Cowl uses necromancy to raise someone from the dead, he'll be able to bind that person, to one degree or another. The idea here would be to leverage Kim's local knowledge, particularly her knowledge as a sometime-trainee of Harry Dresden. And (eventually) to drop a Big Reveal on Harry in order to gain a tactical or strategic advantage.
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Coin Theory: I'd bet there's a question of balance. We know soulfire and hellfire are fundamental forces of the universe, basically creation and destruction. Angels CAN use hellfire, they just choose not to.
#259 “Does the same apply to hellfire/soulfire. What would happen if Harry were to take up Lasciel’s coin and then try to use soulfire and hellfire together? Would that result in Harry dying horribly?”
Those are different. They’re really two sides of the same coin–but they can’t really exist together like that. They aren’t explosively reactive, but they aren’t additive, either. Which one came into the person to be used would depend on the person who was using it, and what they were using it for.
Angelic types have access to both. Which one they use is partially what determines what /kind/ of angels they are.
We know that the Angels can only use their power on mortals to counter the actions of the Fallen, based on Uriel's actions in SF and GS. We know that the Swords are tools of Angelic power, with an Angel in each one mirroring the Fallen in the denarians. If there's a principle of balance as Uriel states, then it stands to reason that sword cuts both ways; the Fallen are given leeway to balance the actions of the Angels. We also know that despite the fact that the Swords' remit is specifically to counter the actions of the Fallen, they can still be used against beings other than the fallen, based on the choices of their mortal wielders, thus employing Angelic power in a way that isn't balancing out an action of the fallen. So the Fallen aren't a force outside of the Almighty's plan, they're a balanced part of it.
My theory is that this imbalance created by free use of Angelic power is balanced out by returning more power from the Fallen to the mortal world. So mortals choose to employ Angelic power outside the balance, and "coincidence" causes a balancing Fallen force to be expressed, freeing a coin. It would be wonderfully ironic that by being the people they are, the Knights are perpetuating the struggle.
Kim Theory: It's Elaine bro. It was revealed to me in a dream.
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So it's actually not Michael, but Father Forthill who reveals this information.
Also, while Anduriel can hear and sometimes see out of any shadow, he can't do this out of every shadow. I highly doubt he can do it on consecrated ground like that of a church, given how hard it is for spiritual entities to even get onto church ground. Talk about a threshold.
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I don't mind the Kim Delaney theory. Definitely has some merit. What's Kim's connection to Cowl though? And why Kim over Harry (the strongest wizard in the city) or Mort or anyone else? What's Kim's connection to the dark side?
Plus, the blessed kerchiefs the Knights wrap dropped coins do in seem to be able to block the summoning. And that's just a portable field measure to secure them for transport, so it stands to reason that their coin jail monasteries have better countermeasures. On the other hand, it's also possible they're mistaken about it being the kerchiefs (they do get a fair bit wrong about the Lash situation) and it's actually the presence of the Knights themselves, or near-saintly priests like Forthill, who are jamming the summoning like they jam Anduriel's listening. Rotate the wrong dude out of the monastery, and the merely averagely-good personnel no longer pose a problem to Nic and Tessa rubber-banding their crews back to them?
As for the Kim theory, she doesn't necessarily have to have a particular affinity for the dark. Kumori seemed more like a deluded idealist, with a side order of healthy fear of how easily Cowl could kill her if she accepted Harry's suggestion to turn on him. Telling her that he could reverse her necromantic resurrection - or convert her into a regular controlled zombie if she got out of line - would be a pretty effective stick alongside the carrot of learning to use dark power for her own morally good (at least, self-proclaimedly so) actions.
The main drawback I see to it is that the kind of necromantic resurrection she demonstrated with the critically injured gangster in Dead Beat seems to require the deceased to be pretty fresh. Death being a process rather than a binary, it seems like necro-healing can only catch them up to a certain level of how far gone they are. So if Cowl had snapped her up as an apprentice acquisition of opportunity after MacFinn killed her, the window of opportunity is almost certainly before she made it to burial. And while I'm sure he could do that easily in and of itself, it would leave a missing body where the official system is expecting one to be accounted for. Given Karrin's interest in her, that seems like the sort of thing it would be a stretch for her not to notice and end up questioning Harry over. Not impossible if he was using mind magic really widely to cover his tracks, but still a pretty big stretch.
I will give credit that most of the Kumori theories have been blind to the possibility of Cowl bringing back a dead character, though. That bears considering.
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My theory is that this imbalance created by free use of Angelic power is balanced out by returning more power from the Fallen to the mortal world. So mortals choose to employ Angelic power outside the balance, and "coincidence" causes a balancing Fallen force to be expressed, freeing a coin. It would be wonderfully ironic that by being the people they are, the Knights are perpetuating the struggle.
Even further so if the uptick in the rate at which the coins are getting back out - that Harry and Michael notice and attribute to the Church's storage arrangements being compromised - is actually balance for the times Harry uses soulfire.
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Plus, the blessed kerchiefs the Knights wrap dropped coins do in seem to be able to block the summoning. And that's just a portable field measure to secure them for transport, so it stands to reason that their coin jail monasteries have better countermeasures. On the other hand, it's also possible they're mistaken about it being the kerchiefs (they do get a fair bit wrong about the Lash situation) and it's actually the presence of the Knights themselves, or near-saintly priests like Forthill, who are jamming the summoning like they jam Anduriel's listening. Rotate the wrong dude out of the monastery, and the merely averagely-good personnel no longer pose a problem to Nic and Tessa rubber-banding their crews back to them?
As for the Kim theory, she doesn't necessarily have to have a particular affinity for the dark. Kumori seemed more like a deluded idealist, with a side order of healthy fear of how easily Cowl could kill her if she accepted Harry's suggestion to turn on him. Telling her that he could reverse her necromantic resurrection - or convert her into a regular controlled zombie if she got out of line - would be a pretty effective stick alongside the carrot of learning to use dark power for her own morally good (at least, self-proclaimedly so) actions.
The main drawback I see to it is that the kind of necromantic resurrection she demonstrated with the critically injured gangster in Dead Beat seems to require the deceased to be pretty fresh. Death being a process rather than a binary, it seems like necro-healing can only catch them up to a certain level of how far gone they are. So if Cowl had snapped her up as an apprentice acquisition of opportunity after MacFinn killed her, the window of opportunity is almost certainly before she made it to burial. And while I'm sure he could do that easily in and of itself, it would leave a missing body where the official system is expecting one to be accounted for. Given Karrin's interest in her, that seems like the sort of thing it would be a stretch for her not to notice and end up questioning Harry over. Not impossible if he was using mind magic really widely to cover his tracks, but still a pretty big stretch.
I will give credit that most of the Kumori theories have been blind to the possibility of Cowl bringing back a dead character, though. That bears considering.
Part of the danger of Anduriel is apart from the Angels themselves, I doubt many beings know the full extent of his powers. Perhaps not even most angels necessarily (he wouldn't be much of a spy master if he couldn't spy on his own kind). So it wouldn't surprise me to learn the Church is unaware of certain loopholes. Not to mention I suspect the Church is riddled with misinformation (and indeed, disinformation perhaps from Denarians etc).
Kim just doesn't seem like the type to touch dark magic. By connection, I mean she had no link to the bad guys. No sob story to make her turn dark. Apart from being murdered, I suppose.
Kumori, as you point out, seems deluded. Maybe even magically so (enthrallment comes to mind).
I agree, the longer the being is dead the harder it is (particularly if it is human). Probably to do with things like souls having their final resting place etc. But I wonder if there is a hard limit for how long a person can be dead for. I suspect not, but it might just require special circumstances etc.
In any case, why would Cowl expend such resources on a throwaway hedge witch? She was no solid power herself. All to upset Harry? That would say Cowl has a personal interest in hurting Harry, and yet supposedly the two are unconnected. If Cowl personally wants to hurt Harry it would suggest he and Harry have history, which makes other theories far more likely.
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Kumori was interested in Necromancy because she thought it could heal death, this is another point for Sarissa, as a Changeling who had not made her choice she was essentially as long-lived as her Fae twin sister Maeve, but without the inherent power of he Fae Heritage (but not her human heritage, Mab was a wizard first) she therefore saw mortal friends, lovers, family, etc die through accident, old age etc time after time, and though someone connected with Kemmler could help her find a solution. What she really needed was to talk to Michael Carpenter, or Father Forthill. She was therefore deluded, she meant well and Cowl/Nameless played on that to gain a hold over Mab’s daughter and spare to Maeve.
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Kumori was interested in Necromancy because she thought it could heal death, this is another point for Sarissa
I don't discount the possibility, but I'm not convinced it's the only one, either.
For one, if we're open to Kumori being someone Cowl revived by necromancy ... what about Aurora? Interest in healing, check. Delusional and already connected to Nemesis, check and check. Would cause Harry pain to face again, check. And there have been a relatively limited number of antagonists who tried to convince Harry to go along with their plans or stand aside because they believe they're doing the right thing, rather than threaten or bribe him off a case - Kumori and Aurora were two of those.
Not sure I actually believe that theory, but she does tick a lot of boxes.
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Raising the dead tends to generate a lot of psychic noise, not saying Cowl wouldn’t do it, but he would hide it amongst a lot of other necromancy like during Dead Beat or Battle Ground, he was very busy during Dead Beat so I would think he might have tried raising someone during Drakuls little shindig.
Maybe he brought back Kemmler….
Maybe he did it before….
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Raising the dead tends to generate a lot of psychic noise, not saying Cowl wouldn’t do it, but he would hide it amongst a lot of other necromancy like during Dead Beat or Battle Ground, he was very busy during Dead Beat so I would think he might have tried raising someone during Drakuls little shindig.
Maybe he brought back Kemmler….
Maybe he did it before….
I like the thoughts, but I think Kemmler is outside the limits...
I would expect you could Raise anyone in Chicago beyond (like papa Murphy) but not anyone who has passed on from there. And my guess is that the power required is proportional to the distance between the body you are Raising and the Spirit you are putting into it and the difference between the two...
It is much easier to raise the dead as they are dying then if you wait, and the longer you wait the harder it gets... if you don't actually have the body you want to raise you can still do it, but need a replacement body (Corpse Taker style) but the closer that body is to the soul you are stuffing into it the easier. But at some point you can't raise someone because they moved on, and that period varies by person (Lots of people who died more recently than Papa Murph passed on, but you could still go get him).
Then again the afterlife isn't clear in Dresden Files... Harry was a walking Soul in GS, but everyone thought he was a ghost, and everyone thinks ghosts are echos not souls... so how wrong is everyone? Are ANY ghosts Echos or are they all really souls like Harry? Are some one and some the other? Is sanity the difference? IE a ghost is an echo, but a soul can use it like a body and ghost insanity is what happens when a soul loses it's hold on the echo.
If you can find a ghost can you give it a body with necromancy? is there a practical difference between that and raising the dead?
I do agree with the thought that at least one of the times Kemmler came back it was with help... but would Cowl be one to do it? He doesn't seem to really like Kemmler in DB.
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Plus, the blessed kerchiefs the Knights wrap dropped coins do in seem to be able to block the summoning. And that's just a portable field measure to secure them for transport, so it stands to reason that their coin jail monasteries have better countermeasures. On the other hand, it's also possible they're mistaken about it being the kerchiefs (they do get a fair bit wrong about the Lash situation) and it's actually the presence of the Knights themselves, or near-saintly priests like Forthill, who are jamming the summoning like they jam Anduriel's listening. Rotate the wrong dude out of the monastery, and the merely averagely-good personnel no longer pose a problem to Nic and Tessa rubber-banding their crews back to them?
I present to you a hypothesis:
The Holy Hankies (and the Penalty Boxes maintained by the Church, and everything else they do to keep the Denarii of Darkness out of circulation) don't do anything at all to block the Denarians or summoning a Coin.
There's enough infighting amongst the Denarians, that they could very well be willing to leave an "uncooperative" Fallen to languish for a decade, or a century. Similarly, some of the more-picky of the Fallen may want a really well-qualified host, before they bother pursuing an agenda.
The Fallen find it useful to have the Church spend all this time & energy on "collecting" and "protecting" the Coins, which could be better-spend (by the Church's lights) on something effective. So they cultivate this delusion amongst their foes within the Church.
When they don't have anything better to do, they "stir the ants' nest" by summoning more Coins, more often... "Oh noes! We haz a traitor amongst us!" & yet more time/energy wasted, distrust sown, as they try to track down a "traitor" and implement new/better security measures.
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We really need to see Nicky take out a purloined holy hankie and blow his nose into it noisily in front of the Knights.
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We really need to see Nicky take out a purloined holy hankie and blow his nose into it noisily in front of the Knights.
Yes please.
This sounds like something he would do, even if he had to have a fake one made (because a fake one would help confuse the issue).
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Actually I think the holy hankies do work.. If the example of Harry and Lasciel holds true, the only reason Harry would have been able to summon her is the fact that her shadow was in his head. Also not until Lash sacrificed herself, and he thought he still heard her voice afterwards did he once and for all reject the coin. Before that he never accepted nor rejected her coin, he thought he was protected because he had buried it and put a magic circle around it. Yet her shadow managed to get in her head and up to the moment of her sacrifice she was still trying to get Harry to accept the coin. In Death Masks, the coins are picked up with the holy hankies mainly to prevent inadvertent contact with them, which could lead to the one picking up the coin getting a shadow of the holder in his or her head, which usually leads to acceptance of the coin. When the coin is picked up with the hanky it is because the coin has been rejected by the holder or the holder is dead, so no connection with a would be host.. Since the hanky prevents the contact, it is effective.
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My theory is that this imbalance created by free use of Angelic power is balanced out by returning more power from the Fallen to the mortal world. So mortals choose to employ Angelic power outside the balance, and "coincidence" causes a balancing Fallen force to be expressed, freeing a coin. It would be wonderfully ironic that by being the people they are, the Knights are perpetuating the struggle
pretty much think the same thing. They balance each other out on a ten to one scale. Part of the reason, is they aren't actually the mirror opposite of them, they simply take up that space. Balance within reality seems of paramount importance because imbalances tend to lend that weight to something not part of reality. Hence the perfect balance between the fae. Although, consider. Angelic beings cannot interfere without someone doing something already. The perfect balance to that is beings whose sole purpose is to DO those things. Starts to get a bit of the chicken vs egg parabol.
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Yes please.
This sounds like something he would do, even if he had to have a fake one made (because a fake one would help confuse the issue).
He would spend the time and effort to get a real one.
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He would spend the time and effort to get a real one.
He would... unless he couldn't (because he couldn't touch a real one or a real one would pull the coin out of him etc) in which case he would get a fake one to make the church think the real ones don't do what they do. :)
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Nicky would make sure he had a certificate of authenticity signed by the Pope, and a photograph of the Pope handing it to him.
Remember he was quite happy to handle both the fake shroud and the Grail.
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Nicky would make sure he had a certificate of authenticity signed by the Pope, and a photograph of the Pope handing it to him.
Remember he was quite happy to handle both the fake shroud and the Grail.
Neither of which would have had any reason to be specifically blessed against him. Recall the Grail predates the Denarians - not the Fallen themselves, but the pieces of silver. the Shroud is not a weapon, why would it be against the Fallen in any way? the Hankies are to contain them, it is the Holy Hanky purpose. And even the shroud may predate Denarians - in three days it had been empowered and cast off. Did they pick up and charge the denarii that quickly?
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It's possible that the Denarii were inhabited as Judas discarded them, so they predate the all the relics except the Grail.
That does mean that the Swords were made soon after and used before they acquired their more famous names.
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The coins most likely pre -existed perhaps not even as silver coins as the earliest coins only date from 600 BC, a mere six centuries before Nick himself. Silver has been worked since 5000 BC so imagine 40 pieces of silver jewellery rings for example, then reworked into 40 coins, in 600 BC and later still into Denarius, in each case to ease the circulation of the fallen.
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The coins most likely pre -existed perhaps not even as silver coins as the earliest coins only date from 600 BC, a mere six centuries before Nick himself. Silver has been worked since 5000 BC so imagine 40 pieces of silver jewellery rings for example, then reworked into 40 coins, in 600 BC and later still into Denarius, in each case to ease the circulation of the fallen.
🤔 the fallen were not contained within the coins until Lucifer tricked them into them specifically.
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Oh no Lucifer didn’t trick them, he gave them no option.
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The coins most likely pre -existed perhaps not even as silver coins as the earliest coins only date from 600 BC, a mere six centuries before Nick himself. Silver has been worked since 5000 BC so imagine 40 pieces of silver jewellery rings for example, then reworked into 40 coins, in 600 BC and later still into Denarius, in each case to ease the circulation of the fallen.
I think it is either way more complicated or very simple.. 30 Denarians, 30 silver coins, the price paid to Judas for betraying Christ. It makes a neat plot device as long as one doesn't over think it.
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The coins most likely pre -existed perhaps not even as silver coins as the earliest coins only date from 600 BC, a mere six centuries before Nick himself. Silver has been worked since 5000 BC so imagine 40 pieces of silver jewellery rings for example, then reworked into 40 coins, in 600 BC and later still into Denarius, in each case to ease the circulation of the fallen.
What? I do not think that is the case. The coins themselves where normal Denarians used at the crucifixion time and they only became dark objects with the symbolism of Judas accepting them. Then the Fallen were forced into them and yadda yadda,.
About the OP theories
1) I found it probable
2) I like that theory. I am not sure is viable but I like it.
3) I feel like Jim has a pattern in mind but he has the space for changing the plans, like he did with the number of books.