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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Mira on March 07, 2023, 02:39:49 PM
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Interesting, good to see Cowl again, he has a title is seems, "Master of the Future." I take that to mean in the BAT this is who Harry will be fighting, among others. It also looks like he is trying to take Harry out while he is emotionally and somewhat physically vulnerable. He also has serious connections if he can spring a monster from Hades. Also an interesting tidbit, Cowl says there are four powers in Chicago who could take the Nemean Lion out, wonder if meant himself as well? Apparently Mouse is one of them, at least he managed to kick Cowl's ass.. Harry, yes, when he is fully himself again. Lara? No doubt, and that may be why Mab wants that marriage so badly.. And though Michael is retired, the Holy Knights, i.e. Butters also lives there.
Back to Cowl, no real light was shed on who he is, clearly though he is from the future or is a "Master of the Future," he is mortal, or has the same vulnerabilities of an ordinary man, after Mouse shattered his staff, he nearly bit his arm off... Mouse and Cerberus, very good dogs indeed..
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But, he also doesn't have Kumori with him. Maybe she actually is dead? Seems like it would be an anticlimax. I'd rather it be a dangling plot thread.
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But, he also doesn't have Kumori with him. Maybe she actually is dead? Seems like it would be an anticlimax. I'd rather it be a dangling plot thread.
He didn't have Kumori with him the last time we saw him, in the Depths of the Rath estate in White Night.. He retreated into the Nevernever that time also.
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He didn't have Kumori with him the last time we saw him, in the Depths of the Rath estate in White Night.. He retreated into the Nevernever that time also.
n.b. he had a different sidekick, Vito.
Kumori was doing necromantic stuff, and evidently it was a passion of hers. That was when Cowl had a Kemmlerite-facing plan.
Vito was his sidekick for his Whamp-politicking plan.
He may have multiple such, but keep them largely "silo'ed" for their appropriate tasks, until/unless he sees an advantage in some sort of "cross-pollination."
Maybe each of them died in their respective climactic fights (Vito seems likely to have died... but Cowl could have saved him, if he chose to).
But (q.v. various "Who is Kumori" WAGging) I'm guessing she (at least) survived.
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Cowl shows a degree of familarity with Harry here not previously shown and his scheme here is petty and personal, he isn’t advancing his long-term schemes to sow chaos and disorder in the supernatural world, he is kicking Harry when he is down.
This would indicate that Cowl has recently been thwarted personally by Harry and he is getting his revenge.
The timing would indicate it is around the time of The Law, Harry had thwarted Nameless embarrassing him professionally before Marcone and Mab and the rest of the World and used his ‘pet’ Laplander to do so. Nameless has the power to raise the Lion, (his Otso was misused by Laplander)
“There are at least four wielders of Power in Chicago who might have banished you. Continue questioning me and I will do so myself.”
Harry and Mort have the power and will, Mouse did, the fourth? Nameless and Laplander could but wouldn’t, Nameless is either Cowl or would enjoy the discord, and Laplander is under his control in either event. Molly could but would the restrictions and duties of Winter prevent her? Marcone/Namshiel could but does Cowl know about them? Butters might do worse than banish with the sword of Faith in its current form.
“Master of the Future” doesn’t necessarily imply that Cowl is from the future, it can imply that Ash is aware of plans by Cowl to assume control of reality. We are aware that Cowl has sought to become a god via the Darkhallow (and Nameless worked with Kemmler) but what if his ultimate plan is to become God, to usurp or replace the White God? He has worked with Fallen and Outsiders, both enemies of the White God. If you are going to be the villain of the series, you had better think big.
I am doing a complete read through and there are many apparent instances of Cowl working behind the scenes principally disrupting the Accords and seeking to undermine Mab who we know later as protector of the Outer Gates. He is likely the one who summoned Outsiders in Proven Guilty, Cold Days and Peace Talks, suggesting he is mortal human enough to do so (Nameless is half mortal human, a scion), he trained the sorcerers in Storm Front, Grave Peril and Blood Rites as disposable flunkies (abduct the puppies). He gave the FBI the wolf skin belts in Fool Moon.
Cowl would have had to have some involvement in every one of Harry’s major cases to some degree, either directly or indirectly. In the Law we learn of Nameless links to Kemmler and his suspected role in the attack on Arctis Tor. Suddenly we have a character who has links to the Cowl arc AND the Maeve arc, creating a possible connection and adding a potential Cowl involvement to the likes of Summer Knight (Nameless was part of Winter at this time, and in a position to manipulate both Maeve and Lloyd Slate as a member of Maeve’s Court). All the issues involving Winter can be laid at Cowls door, the nemfection of Lea, Cat Sith and Maeve, the distrust engendered in Lily of Winter and the Fae courts dispute effect on the White Council/Red Court war, the attack on Demonreach by Maeve.
An argument that I have raised about Nameless is that following The Law he dare not risk Mab’s wrath by embarrasing Winter, so no attacks on the WK, his company car and the Castle, now an outpost of Winter, is a barracks for Winter Troops. Maggie is protected as well as the daughter of her Vassal. His friends? The Alphas live with Butters and the Carpenters are under the White God’s protection. Mac? Former Angel with a Placard working at Accorded Neutral Territory. Thomas? Safely in Demonreach, Eb ? If he knows he might not want to take on the Blackstaff. Max? Or his clienThat would immediately signal Nameless was responsible.
That leaves Harry’s pets for a revenge attack. Mouse is with Maggie all the time which rules out revenge on Mouse, but Mister ? Mister rambles outside the Castle and is fair game. Guess what, the lion hit Mister just after he got out again. Both Nameless and Cowl have the same limited options for revenge against Harry at the moment.
How Nameless must chafe under Winter Law.
By having Mouse as the point of view Jim was able to bring Cowl directly into the narrative without communicating this fact to Harry, and this is the first time Mouse has met Cowl (he has never met Nameless) he didn’t identify a scent so Cowl is someone Mouse has not previously met, and he has been to the White Council with Harry which eliminates a whole slew of potential Cowls as being a current wizard of the White Council. If Mouse meets Nameless he should be able to identify whether of not he is Cowl.
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I am more and more convinced that Justin is Cowl.
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If cowl was from the future why does he start fights that he loses so badly. Though it has the ring of an outsider title
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I am more and more convinced that Justin is Cowl.
The only problem with that is the Justin would have had to be working with Kemmler at the same time he was a Warden.
And that Jim has said he is dead.DED
And he had no access to Winter, necessary for the attack on Arctis Tor, the manipulation of Lloyd Slate, Sarissa, Winter Changelings and of course Maeve.
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The only problem with that is the Justin would have had to be working with Kemmler at the same time he was a Warden.
And that Jim has said he is dead.DED
And he had no access to Winter, necessary for the attack on Arctis Tor, the manipulation of Lloyd Slate, Sarissa, Winter Changelings and of course Maeve.
Justin could have been Kemmler's mole in the council and only turned his coat when he saw that this last time was going to be the last time. We know he had contacts with the Outsiders and that could be all he needed to get contact with the Slate and the rest.
Jim has also said that Cowl was someone we'd seen before as himself. Not as some nondescript extra in the background of one scene. Which WoJ is a lie then?
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Justin as working for Cowl is entirely plausible, having him steal Bob as the repository of Kemmlers research makes sense as in Dead Beat Cowl knew exactly what Bob was and what he contained. Nameless of course would have been in an excellent position to make Harry disappear into the system.
As pointed out Jim slips things in which we don’t get the relevance of until later on in the narrative. Having had a background character be Cowl who we don’t realise until much later fits in with that. Cowl is trying to hide from scrutiny.
Philip Denton, FBI agent and Victor Sells, a trader at SilverCo both came across Cowl and got power from him, Nameless a high powered lawyer would move in both of their circles, Justin wouldn’t
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Another hint in the Justin is Cowl idea. Cowl is wearing gloves in every appearance, even when sitting in the farmhouse here. Why? Because he's been severely burned and needs to keep himself covered.
Cowl also sees Mouse and says "Harry is a pain", not Dresden. Both are correct but using Harry seems to make him much more familiar. As if he knows Harry from conversations and interactions beyond what we've seen in the books. I don't think someone who's only been in adversarial interactions with Harry would casually refer to him by his first name.
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Another hint in the Justin is Cowl idea. Cowl is wearing gloves in every appearance, even when sitting in the farmhouse here. Why? Because he's been severely burned and needs to keep himself covered.
Cowl also sees Mouse and says "Harry is a pain", not Dresden. Both are correct but using Harry seems to make him much more familiar. As if he knows Harry from conversations and interactions beyond what we've seen in the books. I don't think someone who's only been in adversarial interactions with Harry would casually refer to him by his first name.
Excellent point and a good catch.. I need to do another read through. Also interesting that he seems to know that Mouse belongs with Harry, as far as I know Cowl shouldn't know that Mouse is Harry's dog, he has never seen them together.
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Another hint in the Justin is Cowl idea. Cowl is wearing gloves in every appearance, even when sitting in the farmhouse here. Why? Because he's been severely burned and needs to keep himself covered.
Cowl also sees Mouse and says "Harry is a pain", not Dresden. Both are correct but using Harry seems to make him much more familiar. As if he knows Harry from conversations and interactions beyond what we've seen in the books. I don't think someone who's only been in adversarial interactions with Harry would casually refer to him by his first name.
Because he is paranoid about keeping his identity secret and thus leaving his fingerprints everywhere? In a City where the cops are better clued in than normal? In addition, his cowl is enspelled like Harry’s Duster, so presumably it (and the gloves) provides further protection as to his identity his aura could not be ascertained by Lea for example.
Here’s a thought, Cowl would have been around when Colin Murphy killed himself, but Colin ended up working for Uriel. Did Colin inadvertently put someone’s finger prints in the system CPD, FBI etc he shouldn’t have, and the Library of Congress have them?
If he was burned then would have been many years before, if Harry was born in 1974, he would have been 16 in 1990 when Justin burned. It is now 24 years later, and Cowl is even more powerful than Harry, with a a stronger healing factor, so he should have healed in the nearly quarter of a century since Justin went up given Harry’s progression since his own injury.
Of course Cowl could just be a habitual nail biter and his mother is trying to break him of the habit. “He’s not The Master Of The Future, he’s a very naughty boy!”
Because he is aware that Harry ticks off Marcone by calling him John? Which he would know working for Marcone.
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I'm assuming you mean Nameless here but in his only shared scenes with Harry and Marcone, Harry did not call him John. He did not even refer to Marcone by any name. And i doubt Marcone grouses to Nameless about Harry in any off-screen time.
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I do not doubt that at one point Nameless called Marcone “John” and was told in no uncertain terms not to by Marcone and either Gard or Hendricks warned him only Dresden does this deliberately to annoy Marcone. Nameless has been working for Marcone since after Small Favour, so bound to have happened.
Nameless is a Demi-God, a wizard and worst of all a lawyer, in his arrogance he will have presumed himself Marcone’s equal or more (it’s his arrogance which drew Miss Laplander) and of course names have power.
Harry nicknames and uses familiarity to cut his adversaries down to size in his own mind which boosts his confidence in his own magic against them, therefore Sir Baron John Marcone becomes the much less scary “John”, and John knows this.
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Nameless is not one of Marcone's confidantes, he's an employee. And Nameless, despite being a rebel by nature, is also a denizen of the supernatural world where proper etiquette is a key component of all interactions. No matter what he may think, I'm sure he addresses Marcone as Baron, otherwise it'd be akin to a challenge.
Harry's familiarity with others has caused him no end of trouble, Nameless knows to avoid this.
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So we should assume that Mouse now knows Cowl's scent, and that Cowl isn't anyone that Mouse has met before else he would have recognized Cowl in this story. That should narrow the list of suspects.
Apropos to maybe nothing, but has Mouse met the Gatekeeper?
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Nameless is not one of Marcone's confidantes, he's an employee. And Nameless, despite being a rebel by nature, is also a denizen of the supernatural world where proper etiquette is a key component of all interactions. No matter what he may think, I'm sure he addresses Marcone as Baron, otherwise it'd be akin to a challenge.
Harry's familiarity with others has caused him no end of trouble, Nameless knows to avoid this.
The point is that Nameless is arrogance cubed, of course he thinks he could take liberties with vanilla mortal Marcone, he doesn’t know about the coin. Plus Nameless is a Demi-God of Discord, he can’t help himself, despite his planning and everything it’s an impulse control thing ,its why despite knowing better he is trying to take a pop at Harry. Harry has go under his skin.
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Marcone wouldn't let an employee take liberties. It's not done in either criminal or supernatural circles. And don't think he wouldn't push the issue. He held his ground against Ethniu, Nameless would get one warning then be fired and reported to Mab as unsuitable.
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So we should assume that Mouse now knows Cowl's scent, and that Cowl isn't anyone that Mouse has met before else he would have recognized Cowl in this story. That should narrow the list of suspects.
Apropos to maybe nothing, but has Mouse met the Gatekeeper?
I haven't got to the new one yet, but Zoo Day dropped a pretty heavy cluebat that it was Cowl and Kumori who originally stole Mouse and the rest of his litter from the monastery. So Cowl may be as cautious about disguising his scent - at least, around Foo Dogs - as he is about his appearance.
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Because he is paranoid about keeping his identity secret and thus leaving his fingerprints everywhere? In a City where the cops are better clued in than normal? In addition, his cowl is enspelled like Harry’s Duster, so presumably it (and the gloves) provides further protection as to his identity his aura could not be ascertained by Lea for example.
Here’s a thought, Cowl would have been around when Colin Murphy killed himself, but Colin ended up working for Uriel. Did Colin inadvertently put someone’s finger prints in the system CPD, FBI etc he shouldn’t have, and the Library of Congress have them?
If he was burned then would have been many years before, if Harry was born in 1974, he would have been 16 in 1990 when Justin burned. It is now 24 years later, and Cowl is even more powerful than Harry, with a a stronger healing factor, so he should have healed in the nearly quarter of a century since Justin went up given Harry’s progression since his own injury.
Of course Cowl could just be a habitual nail biter and his mother is trying to break him of the habit. “He’s not The Master Of The Future, he’s a very naughty boy!”
Because he is aware that Harry ticks off Marcone by calling him John? Which he would know working for Marcone.
This isn't to contradict anything you said but I noticed something in Dead Bead that I find interesting and applies to Cowl wearing a glove, or is it gloves? In Grave Peril there's no mention of Bianca's assistants wearing gloves, they're just kind of hidden from view by their costumes. However, in Dead Beat we have two statements made when Harry first meets Cowl outside of the bookstore. The first is when Cowl gets fed up with Harry and throws power at him. "Dorosh," he snarled in reply, and extended his right hand." The second statement was made after Harry flipped the car on top of Cowl and the necromancer came out from underneath it. "As he straightened he wavered, then braced himself against a streetlight with one black-gloved hand." And then in the short story Fugitive, Cowl raises a "gloved hand, in a salute" to the Nemean lion.
You may notice that it is never stated that Cowl wears gloves on both hands. A gloved hand isn't mentioned when Cowl raises his hand to throw power at Harry, just that Cowl raised his hand. Here's what I think is going on. Jim knew that he wanted to keep Cowl's true identity a secret and thought of a clever way to misdirect his readers. Harry wears a glove on his left hand after getting burned in Blood Rites. Jim wants some of his crazier, though clever, readers to think that Cowl is future Harry. Even Cowl's title of "Master of the Future" plays into this idea. This tinfoil hat hypothesis has been posted on this forum, on Reddit and YouTube. There are a lot of people who like it, but it's too obvious for my taste. I think Jim has setup "Cowl is future Harry" as a red herring to throw some of his readers off Cowl's actual identity.
Also, according to the official Dresden Files timeline, Dead Beat takes place about 5 years after Storm Front and Battle Ground about 14 years after Storm Front, so Cowl has been wearing gloves or a glove for at least nine years. Shouldn't any scars Cowl's hiding be healing up pretty good by now? Is Harry even wearing a glove on his left hand any longer? I'm not sure. Jim may purposely not be mentioning this detail of Harry's appearance any longer, in order to keep the confusion going.
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He wasn’t hired through Mab, Nameless is still Winter but probably arranged to meet Marcone in a social situation before signing on with him on his own initiative. Marcone is Chairman of the Chicago Historical and Art Society (in Dead Beat Marcone choose some choice art from Bony Tony’s find) we know this through Death Masks a rich man’s club. A wealthy lawyer would fit right in, we know from the Law Nameless collects artifacts in his office so that would likely be where Nameless would make his approach through Marcone’s hobby before establishing his chops with the Cancer Charity thing. Hell his plan may have been for Marcone to approach him after watching him for a couple of years, Marcone does not make major decisions without considering every angle, and recruiting a supernatural lawyer not through Monoc? At that point “John” would have become Mr Marcone, and warned as such. We know though that Marcone hired Nameless after Small Favour, he might have felt he had an Ace in the Hole with Namshiel and could finally take the risk. Gard would have had to be overruled on that hire.
Yes Cowl did engage the Sorceror who stole the litter, that and setting up Mavra in Chicago to lure Harry in were his contributions to Death Masks (he likely called in the favour gained in Grave Peril as Harry had been engaged to track down the puppies a couple of weeks earlier). As regards scent, what Mouse tracks appears to be more than just normal scent, so the capability of being able to mask that may be problematic.
As pointed out Dresden uses mundane means as well as magical (Vince Graver springs to mind) so fingerprints are the obvious reason, and I have dealt with burned Justin as Cowl by pointing out that 24 years have passed, plenty of time to heal and the same for future Harry. The gloves may also be a countermeasure against his ‘scent’ rubbing off on things he touches, or Ash’s ‘scent’ rubbing off on him.
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Interesting, good to see Cowl again, he has a title is seems, "Master of the Future." I take that to mean in the BAT this is who Harry will be fighting, among others. It also looks like he is trying to take Harry out while he is emotionally and somewhat physically vulnerable. He also has serious connections if he can spring a monster from Hades. Also an interesting tidbit, Cowl says there are four powers in Chicago who could take the Nemean Lion out, wonder if meant himself as well? Apparently Mouse is one of them, at least he managed to kick Cowl's ass.. Harry, yes, when he is fully himself again. Lara? No doubt, and that may be why Mab wants that marriage so badly.. And though Michael is retired, the Holy Knights, i.e. Butters also lives there.
Back to Cowl, no real light was shed on who he is, clearly though he is from the future or is a "Master of the Future," he is mortal, or has the same vulnerabilities of an ordinary man, after Mouse shattered his staff, he nearly bit his arm off... Mouse and Cerberus, very good dogs indeed..
I'm going to address the second part I highlighted, first. Harry figured out that Cowl is a mortal human back in Dead Beat. Here are the relevant quotes:
"Cowl was strong, but his magic wasn't inhuman." ... "The point being that Cowl wasn't some kind of demon. He was a wizard. Human.
And, behind the magic, just as fragile as me."
Who are the four powers in Chicago who could banish the Nemean lion back to Hades? If Molly hasn't left to go perform Winter Lady duties, she would certainly be one power who could do it. I'm pretty sure Harry could do it, though he might not know how to do it. Would Cowl know that Mouse could banish the Nemean Lion? Maybe, but maybe not. The necromancer would have had to gather some solid intel on Harry to learn that Mouse is a Foo Dog. Perhaps he did, but we don't know with certainty. The last power; that I know of, who could do it would be Marcone, with help from Thorned Namshiel. Again, this assumes Cowl knows Marcone is carrying one of the tainted coins. I think it's a good bet that Cowl could learn this because of the huge hint that Harry dropped about it during the meeting the supernatural powers held after the Battle of Chicago. Word would get around or could be had for a price.
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He wasn’t hired through Mab, Nameless is still Winter but probably arranged to meet Marcone in a social situation before signing on with him on his own initiative. Marcone is Chairman of the Chicago Historical and Art Society (in Dead Beat Marcone choose some choice art from Bony Tony’s find) we know this through Death Masks a rich man’s club. A wealthy lawyer would fit right in, we know from the Law Nameless collects artifacts in his office so that would likely be where Nameless would make his approach through Marcone’s hobby before establishing his chops with the Cancer Charity thing. Hell his plan may have been for Marcone to approach him after watching him for a couple of years, Marcone does not make major decisions without considering every angle, and recruiting a supernatural lawyer not through Monoc? At that point “John” would have become Mr Marcone, and warned as such. We know though that Marcone hired Nameless after Small Favour, he might have felt he had an Ace in the Hole with Namshiel and could finally take the risk. Gard would have had to be overruled on that hire.
Yes Cowl did engage the Sorceror who stole the litter, that and setting up Mavra in Chicago to lure Harry in were his contributions to Death Masks (he likely called in the favour gained in Grave Peril as Harry had been engaged to track down the puppies a couple of weeks earlier). As regards scent, what Mouse tracks appears to be more than just normal scent, so the capability of being able to mask that may be problematic.
As pointed out Dresden uses mundane means as well as magical (Vince Graver springs to mind) so fingerprints are the obvious reason, and I have dealt with burned Justin as Cowl by pointing out that 24 years have passed, plenty of time to heal and the same for future Harry. The gloves may also be a countermeasure against his ‘scent’ rubbing off on things he touches, or Ash’s ‘scent’ rubbing off on him.
Your posts about Nameless are forcing me to reread The Law again.
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The only problem with that is the Justin would have had to be working with Kemmler at the same time he was a Warden.
And that Jim has said he is dead.DED
Maybe cowl is not only a wizard - he's an undead one. Black Court wizard...
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The title Master of the Future can mean more than one thing. It could mean in Tin Foil Hat fashion that Cowl is the future Harry. I don't think so because his height isn't mentioned. If Cowl was as tall as Harry is, I believe it would be noted, the only one who's height is mentioned on a regular basis aside from Harry, is Rashid. And no, I don't think Cowl is Rashid. It is possible that Cowl can travel in time, but just because he gives himself the title of Master of the Future, doesn't mean that he is the master of it. Nor does it mean he is from the future, but he thinks he will be the master of it.
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Your posts about Nameless are forcing me to reread The Law again.
Don't bother, the entire first section is his own personal fanfic. We have no idea how Marcone met Nameless. Or why the way Cowl says "Harry is a PITA" rather than "Dresden is a PITA" on seeing Mouse means that he calls Marcone, John. I guess if Nameless really is Cowl, contrary to WoJ that we had seen his alter ego long before "The Law" was ever dreamed up, then it would be. However, Nameless does not refer to Marcone by any Name during their one shared scene. No one present is named by any other attendee.
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Your posts about Nameless are forcing me to reread The Law again.
They are forcing me to re-read EVERYTHING.
Vincentric we know from The Law when in the time-line Nameless was engaged by Marcone, we know from Mab he was suspected of involvement in Arctis Tor and we know he also has a substantive connection to Kemmler. Those are huge. This is the only individual other than Harry with connections to both Kemmler and Winter, and so much of Cowls plans have involved undermining Winter or Mab’s Accords. That isn’t fanfic, neither is Marcone’s paranoia, he tried to recruit Harry only after watching him carefully for a couple of years, he would treat Nameless in a similar fashion. Going up to Marcone and offering your services is not the way to gain even the barest sliver of trust from Marcone. He recruits you, so all you can do to get his attention is move in the same circles and do your thing.
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I get the feeling the Cowl is Harry--Mirror Harry. He's got a magical duster (his Cloak and cowl) and a dog--Mouse's shadow. Feels kinda obvious to me for whatever reason. And Nameless is just Nameless.
Nope. I don't have any evidence to back any of it up. Just my gut...which has been wrong before. lol
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I get the feeling the Cowl is Harry--Mirror Harry. He's got a magical duster (his Cloak and cowl) and a dog--Mouse's shadow. Feels kinda obvious to me for whatever reason. And Nameless is just Nameless.
Nope. I don't have any evidence to back any of it up. Just my gut...which has been wrong before. lol
Naw, Cowl is too short.
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Would Cowl know that Mouse could banish the Nemean Lion? Maybe, but maybe not. The necromancer would have had to gather some solid intel on Harry to learn that Mouse is a Foo Dog.
Not that difficult to put together that the dog Harry has after knocking over Cowl's Foo dog puppynapping operation is one of them.
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Naw, Cowl is too short.
Could likely take care of that with a projection/illusion, but Cowl seems to be feeling Harry out at first - a real Harry should have known.
Unless Shadow-Harry took after his mom's side, which seems considerably shorter than Malcolm. Eb is short, Malcolm was very tall.
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Could likely take care of that with a projection/illusion, but Cowl seems to be feeling Harry out at first - a real Harry should have known.
Unless Shadow-Harry took after his mom's side, which seems considerably shorter than Malcolm. Eb is short, Malcolm was very tall.
Harry is Harry, Shadow-Harry is still Harry..
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I think Master the future was just a reference as in future plans
I agree, or a title he has given himself because Cowl thinks he will be the Master of the Future. This is why I think that Cowl is being set up as one of Harry's major foes in the BAT.
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Harry is Harry, Shadow-Harry is still Harry..
But does Alt-Harry have to be exactly? Same parents, but one Harry takes after mom, one after Dad, sort of like brothers
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We are to understand the alt Harry of Mirror, Mirror split from Dresden Prime in Grave Peril, choosing Susan over Michael instead of trying to save both.
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We are to understand the alt Harry of Mirror, Mirror split from Dresden Prime in Grave Peril, choosing Susan over Michael instead of trying to save both.
That's too early in the book; WoJ says Harry's crucial Choice comes near the end.
I think there are two likely Choices --
#1, as he emerges from the basement to Bianca's villain-monologue ambush, and calls half-turned Susan to her side. She offers to let Harry walk, and Bianca will keep Susan. Harry could have done that, saved Justine & himself, Susan was already lost to him (there being no known way back from half-Ramp).
#2, at the very end, where he has tracked Susan to a beach. She tells him she's going away, and he... just lets her walk. He could have argued much harder, likely convinced her to stay.
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#1, as he emerges from the basement to Bianca's villain-monologue ambush, and calls half-turned Susan to her side. She offers to let Harry walk, and Bianca will keep Susan. Harry could have done that, saved Justine & himself, Susan was already lost to him (there being no known way back from half-Ramp).
#2, at the very end, where he has tracked Susan to a beach. She tells him she's going away, and he... just lets her walk. He could have argued much harder, likely convinced her to stay.
Neither choice would have changed things as far as Susan goes, she was lost to him in either case. If he had made the first choice, little Maggie might never have been born.
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I get the feeling the Cowl is Harry--Mirror Harry. He's got a magical duster (his Cloak and cowl) and a dog--Mouse's shadow. Feels kinda obvious to me for whatever reason.
Dead Beat - Chapter 8: "Just as well," Cowl murmured. "I have wanted to see for myself what has the Wardens so nervous about you."
Kills all the Alternate Harry (including time travel) theories.
Cowl is NOT Harry, Cowl has access to Warden reports or Warden gossip (Peabody could have provided this, but the nature of the statement feels more personal than relayed by Peabody could account for), Cowl is NOT a Warden. Cowl isn't worried about going up against someone who makes Wardens nervous. Based on the fact that Cowl is in Chicago when the Sr Council is regrouping and hiding after the council got hit hard repeatedly and almost wiped out... Cowl was not on the Sr Council durring Dead Beat (or he would have been missed)... The most likely candidates for Cowl are the people mentioned when Eb takes his seat on the Sr Council or Cristos.
The above quote also kills Justin theories and similar people from Harry's past.
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Cowl is NOT Harry, Cowl has access to Warden reports or Warden gossip (Peabody could have provided this, but the nature of the statement feels more personal than relayed by Peabody could account for), Cowl is NOT a Warden. Cowl isn't worried about going up against someone who makes Wardens nervous. Based on the fact that Cowl is in Chicago when the Sr Council is regrouping and hiding after the council got hit hard repeatedly and almost wiped out... Cowl was not on the Sr Council durring Dead Beat (or he would have been missed)... The most likely candidates for Cowl are the people mentioned when Eb takes his seat on the Sr Council or Cristos.
Cowl could have a spy in the Council.. Or Cowl is actually a member of the Council and assumes such a low profile talent wise and so benign appearing in his day to day activities that he goes unnoticed, but he notices everything. The Council isn't a bag of the brightest pennies when it comes to this, powerful wizards like Mort and Elaine can pass through life more or less unnoticed if they choose to be unnoticed.
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Dead Beat - Chapter 8: "Just as well," Cowl murmured. "I have wanted to see for myself what has the Wardens so nervous about you."
Kills all the Alternate Harry (including time travel) theories.
Cowl is NOT Harry, Cowl has access to Warden reports or Warden gossip (Peabody could have provided this, but the nature of the statement feels more personal than relayed by Peabody could account for), Cowl is NOT a Warden. Cowl isn't worried about going up against someone who makes Wardens nervous. Based on the fact that Cowl is in Chicago when the Sr Council is regrouping and hiding after the council got hit hard repeatedly and almost wiped out... Cowl was not on the Sr Council durring Dead Beat (or he would have been missed)... The most likely candidates for Cowl are the people mentioned when Eb takes his seat on the Sr Council or Cristos.
The above quote also kills Justin theories and similar people from Harry's past.
I don't think that quote kills everyone from his past. Someone might have been out of touch with Harry, and wondering if he missed something. Maybe some wizards are late bloomers, and develop power later.
Athletes do. In baseball, in 1988 they held an amateur draft, and one future Hall of Fame player was picked. Mike Piazza.
He was drafted #1390. They took 1389 other guys ahead of the best player in that year's draft. Late bloomer. Can magic have them?
Maybe Cowl knew Harry young, and wondered how different the man is from the boy. Remember, Justin last saw him at 16. Cowl sees a 30-something. Can be a difference. (I think Justin is dead, just an example of a past contact)
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I don't think that quote kills everyone from his past. Someone might have been out of touch with Harry, and wondering if he missed something. Maybe some wizards are late bloomers, and develop power later.
I agree, it doesn't kill everyone from his past, just people who knew him well while he had magic like Justin or Elane or Eb... really just those character from the ones we know. All of those know Harry is strong and wouldn't be interested in facing him in combat just to see how strong...
Harry wasn't a late bloomer and as far as we know Justin didn't show him off to anyone, so there shouldn't be anyone else from his past, though Morgan was watching him before Malcom died and Justin got him, so someone else may have been at that point too and they wouldn't know how strong he is...
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Would Cowl know that Mouse could banish the Nemean Lion? Maybe, but maybe not. The necromancer would have had to gather some solid intel on Harry to learn that Mouse is a Foo Dog. Perhaps he did, but we don't know with certainty
Cowl's working with Mouse's Shadow, he's going to know about Mouse and his capabilities. It's obvious that Cowl recognized him.
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Master of the Future, it’s quite clear that Ash is aware of Cowl’s ambitions, and that is to be God, not merely a God.
I have posited that the date of creation of the White God has yet to occur, but it will be due to the sheer weight of humanitys belief willing him into existence around a foci, maybe Uriel, maybe Lucifer, maybe an Outsider, but maybe both Cowl and Drakul think they have a shot at it. Once created God is not bound by linear time and will exist at all points and at all times in the multiverse as the pre-eminent power.
Cowl has outlined his plan to become god to his dog.
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Cowl has outlined his plan to become god to his dog.
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Most of us are already gods to our dogs... ::) In the case of cats, they think they are god.. :o
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Most of us are already gods to our dogs... ::) In the case of cats, they think they are god.. :o
This is why trying to bind the Nimean Lion through Mister was a mistake. Mister chucked him out when it ceased to be fun.
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This is why trying to bind the Nimean Lion through Mister was a mistake. Mister chucked him out when it ceased to be fun.
Yup, Mister is omnipotent, and when the Nimean Lion went after his cat nip mouse, it put an end to his tolerance.
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Neither choice would have changed things as far as Susan goes, she was lost to him in either case. If he had made the first choice, little Maggie might never have been born.
Yes, but they were pretty key choices; and they were close to the end of the book.
In #1 (at Bianca's), think what the consequence would have been. Harry would have walked out safe, but the personal cost to him would have been unbearable; losing Susan not to death, but to monster-hood. It would have been poison working in his soul, an inescapable reminder that he wasn't good enough, smart enough, strong enough, brave enough. He would never have escaped the self-blame trap after that.
With #2 (at the beach) Harry would have become Susan's only hope, only lifeline. She wouldn't have connected with the Fellowship in Latin America, learned self-control from them. Her lessons would have been the best Harry could come up with; but not as good as the Ramp-specialized methods of St.Giles.
Harry would have had a Whamp "friend" (brother) and a half-Ramp girlfriend; the White Council would have been even-more distrusting. But Harry would have needed the WC even less, with such potent enforcers at his side. And many of the Case Files would likely have been "solved" with applications of force.
Plus, with tormented-Susan right there in his face on a daily/weekly/etc basis, he'd have driven himself even harder towards a breakdown (remember, it was "rescuing-Susan research" (and guilt over Susan) that had Harry in such a bad state, at the beginning of Summer Knight).
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I agree, it doesn't kill everyone from his past, just people who knew him well while he had magic like Justin or Elane or Eb... really just those character from the ones we know. All of those know Harry is strong and wouldn't be interested in facing him in combat just to see how strong...
Men change a lot after 16... I think that is all he was when he fought Justin. though Justin is dead and I think Cowl is male. Eb's seen him repeatedly over the years, though, and will have a better eye.
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Men change a lot after 16... I think that is all he was when he fought Justin. though Justin is dead and I think Cowl is male. Eb's seen him repeatedly over the years, though, and will have a better eye.
Harry is one of if not the strongest wizards of his generation, Justin was aware of that, I don't see Justin making that comment even if he was alive.
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If Cowl isn't Justin Dumorne I will eat my hat.
He doesn't say Dresden, or the Wizard, he calls him Hary. Says he is a pain in his ass. It's familiar, and frustrated. If he were Simon, would he talk like that?
Also, the idea that Cowl has a bolt hole outside of Chicago further lends weight to it. One of Harry's worst enemies, right around the corner. Why would Cowl have that if he were Simon really? He would have places in Russia etc to go to. But Justin has links to Chicago. It's part of the reason Harry is there, I am sure of it. It's certainly where they spent their time together.
My Shadow also has a name - Ash. That's very cool to know.
Best short story he has written yet I think.
And while Master of the Future may hint at time travel, I rather think it has more to do with the Stars and Stones - which Justin had been preparing for long before he met Harry (it's why he chose Harry and Elaine).
If anyone says Justin is dead to me as a reason Cowl isn't Justin...I will eat a shoe. Do better. IF Jim has lied to us (which he does constantly) then Justin isn't dead, and makes him a prime candidate. Even Morgan suspected Justin might not be dead. In-universe hint! Not to mention, Cowl is a necromancer. Justin stole Bob, before he was Bob, a Necromancer's demon. Why? To learn necromancy (among other things). And we have seen Capiocorpus return from the dead, and Cowl too, which they learned from Kemmler (who did it several times over!)
So it seems highly possible Justin either came back from the dead and gave himself a new identity or faked his death with some sort of double...just as Alt-Harry will do in Mirror Mirror.
Harry is one of if not the strongest wizards of his generation, Justin was aware of that, I don't see Justin making that comment even if he was alive.
Why not? He totally would want to see how Dresden would have improved. And he wasn't trying to reveal his identity. Not to mention, he had sparred with Dresden in the past (both in practice and one "duel"). I think he was curious to see if Dresden had got any better since, and was mostly disappointed.
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Harry is one of if not the strongest wizards of his generation, Justin was aware of that, I don't see Justin making that comment even if he was alive.
he is NOW. We do not know he was THEN. Michael Jordan is often considered the best basketball player ever. At 15 he failed to make the varsity at his high school. Harry could be strongest of his generation NOW, but not then
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Why not? He totally would want to see how Dresden would have improved. And he wasn't trying to reveal his identity. Not to mention, he had sparred with Dresden in the past (both in practice and one "duel"). I think he was curious to see if Dresden had got any better since, and was mostly disappointed.
Justin wouldn't wonder why the Wardens were nervious about Harry... he would chock it up to two things:
1: Harry's well above average (for the council) raw power level.
2: Justin faking his own death at the hands of Harry.
Justin above anyone else would 'know' Harry was strong, but not as strong as the Wardens make him out to be. The comment wouldn't even occur to Justin as cover.
I will eat my hat if Cowl IS Justin... no scratch that, I will go buy a hat and then eat it...
Justin is almost as bad a candidate for Cowl as Nameless is.
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It’s likely Justin was working for Cowl, we know Nameless worked with Kemmler, he went to winter but couldn’t take Bob with him without incurring Mab’s wrath, so he handed him off to Justin. Justin may have only joined the Wardens in the first place as Nameless inside man.
Here’s a thought, Nameless betrayed Kemmler to the White Council via Justin getting rid of a major competitor and breaking up the Kemmlerites and setting up his infiltration of Winter. He got what he wanted the Darkhallow from Kemmler handing Bob off to Justin for safekeeping and recruiting Peabody the Erl King expert in his place as his spy in the White Council. This presumes Justin was working for Nameless all along, tipping off Nameless (and through him Kemmler) to keep Kemmler safe until he finished The Word.
Justin was then tasked with recruiting Enforcers /Starborn but things went awry with Harry killing Justin and hiding Bob. Nameless suspects Harry might have Bob, and seeks to confirm this by throwing Sorceror and hexenwulf at Harry to flush this out.
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It’s likely Justin was working for Cowl, we know Nameless worked with Kemmler, he went to winter but couldn’t take Bob with him without incurring Mab’s wrath, so he handed him off to Justin. Justin may have only joined the Wardens in the first place as Nameless inside man.
Here’s a thought, Nameless betrayed Kemmler to the White Council via Justin getting rid of a major competitor and breaking up the Kemmlerites and setting up his infiltration of Winter. He got what he wanted the Darkhallow from Kemmler handing Bob off to Justin for safekeeping and recruiting Peabody the Erl King expert in his place as his spy in the White Council. This presumes Justin was working for Nameless all along, tipping off Nameless (and through him Kemmler) to keep Kemmler safe until he finished The Word.
Justin was then tasked with recruiting Enforcers /Starborn but things went awry with Harry killing Justin and hiding Bob. Nameless suspects Harry might have Bob, and seeks to confirm this by throwing Sorceror and hexenwulf at Harry to flush this out.
I totally agree with this, except Nameless is NOT Cowl.
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Justin got Bob from Kemmler's effects after the White Council dealt with him. If Nameless had ever possessed him, he'd have told Harry in The Law.
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Justin wouldn't wonder why the Wardens were nervious about Harry... he would chock it up to two things:
1: Harry's well above average (for the council) raw power level.
2: Justin faking his own death at the hands of Harry.
Justin above anyone else would 'know' Harry was strong, but not as strong as the Wardens make him out to be. The comment wouldn't even occur to Justin as cover.
I will eat my hat if Cowl IS Justin... no scratch that, I will go buy a hat and then eat it...
Justin is almost as bad a candidate for Cowl as Nameless is.
But Harry's raw power when Justin last fought him would have been a lot weaker. Not to mention his skill level would have been a lot worse. Harry finished his education with Ebenezar and then had over a decade of honing his skills and growing in strength until he would meet Justin again (assuming Cowl is Justin). So, not unreasonable then for Justin to wonder about Harry's power level. He would have heard Harry was strong, and he would have known his potential, but he wouldn't have yet seen it in action. Like a college scout seeing a pro footballer in high school. You can see what they might be, but you still want to see the finished product otherwise it's just unrealised potential.
Not sure about your point number two. Are you agreeing that Justin isn't dead?
Why else is Justin such a bad candidate? He was considered a powerful warden, we know he experimented with dark magic, he was at Kemmler's final fight (which leads to all sorts of questions if he is Cowl), he is a capable swordsman (being a warden) and Cowl speaks of his skill at swordplay, Justin picked up Bob (a demon that served arguably the greatest and most feared dark wizard in history) from the ruins of Kemmler's last stand (and how did he even know of Bob, and why didn't he just destroy it, and considering how strong Evil Bob is how did he even control it? And how did Cowl know Harry had Bob...Justin would know this of course but who else could know?) - there are so many reasons why Justin makes a good candidate. And those are just in-universe ones. From a writing perspective it's actually a classic literary trope to have the old mentor as the villain. Consider how much more impactful Cowl's identity reveal will be on Harry if Cowl was revealed as Justin. It would anger and scare Harry, it would tear him up emotionally that his surrogate father-teacher is still alive but not only alive but actually one of his biggest enemies. Not to mention Cowl clearly is working towards some skewed version of a Greater Good. He is insane but not like Corpsetaker or Grevane. He wants to improve the world (apparently through stopping death for some reason). And Justin might just have a very good reason for stopping death. We also know Justin was involved with Harry's mother, Arianna and Paolo Ortega, Lord Raith etc. We know they had some scheme around the Stars and Stones...just like Cowl. Also, consider that Simon was killed in his fortress. The White Council suspected Harry of supplying the Red Court with the necessary information to get past the wards...because he was Justin's student, and Justin was once Simon's student. Justin was only ruled out because of his apparent death. Yet we know Cowl and the Red Court worked together, and we know Harry didn't give out the information. So unless Simon is Cowl, or some other student of Simon was involved (the least likely story-wise), Justin makes for a good candidate. Cowl hides his face because he doesn't wish to give out any information. Justin is supposedly dead, so fairly good reason to cover his face. Cowl wants to bring down the White Council for having too many restrictions, Justin also felt that the Council has too many restrictions (as he learned from his master too).
Kumori as Elaine also works very well, given Kumori is both powerful (like Elaine), friendly with Harry (even though she shouldn't really be), quite likely was involved in Aurora's corruption (which Elaine was in a prime position to do), Kumori picked up Harry's force rings (which Harry remarks almost no-one picks up, but Elaine would given she studied under the same master and would know Harry's style and training), and Kumori is tall enough to hold a knife to Harry's throat (which is tricky for most women given Harry's height, but Elaine is at least six foot), and if Elaine is Kumori she is far more likely to work for Justin (as Cowl) than some other Cowl (because what link would Elaine have to some other Cowl?) Kumori as Elaine is still the most popular theory, and for good reason. It's the most likely. Also adds to Harry's betrayal and isolation.
If not Justin, who do you believe it is? Who is so familiar with Harry who is a powerful and well-trained (White Council level) wizard, who also might have experience with necromancy, who hits hard (perhaps harder) than a Senior Council wizard?
I honestly had never considered Nameless. I am hoping CT will explain his idea further. It's intriguing, even if I can't yet see it myself. One of the main reasons I don't think it works is that Nameless is closer to being a demigod and but Cowl's magic feels human (even if it's incredibly strong).
It’s likely Justin was working for Cowl, we know Nameless worked with Kemmler, he went to winter but couldn’t take Bob with him without incurring Mab’s wrath, so he handed him off to Justin. Justin may have only joined the Wardens in the first place as Nameless inside man.
When did Nameless work for Kemmler? Also, assuming your theory is correct, why would Nameless use a dark wizard and later hexenwolves as bait to flush out the information that Harry has Bob? And why would that reveal Bob is in Harry's possession?
Justin got Bob from Kemmler's effects after the White Council dealt with him. If Nameless had ever possessed him, he'd have told Harry in The Law.
Agreed.
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But Harry's raw power when Justin last fought him would have been a lot weaker. Not to mention his skill level would have been a lot worse. Harry finished his education with Ebenezar and then had over a decade of honing his skills and growing in strength until he would meet Justin again (assuming Cowl is Justin). So, not unreasonable then for Justin to wonder about Harry's power level. He would have heard Harry was strong, and he would have known his potential, but he wouldn't have yet seen it in action. Like a college scout seeing a pro footballer in high school. You can see what they might be, but you still want to see the finished product otherwise it's just unrealised potential.
Actually, Harry's raw power would have been just as strong, that's why it was raw. When Harry fought Justin, the power was there, but the experience wasn't, as we see through the books, Harry gets stronger because he learns new skills and practices them.. However the power was always there, as Eb saw in his soul gaze of the sixteen year old Harry..
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Why else is Justin such a bad candidate?
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Justin picked up Bob (a demon that served arguably the greatest and most feared dark wizard in history) from the ruins of Kemmler's last stand (and how did he even know of Bob, and why didn't he just destroy it, and considering how strong Evil Bob is how did he even control it? And how did Cowl know Harry had Bob...Justin would know this of course but who else could know?) - there are so many reasons why Justin makes a good candidate.
Cowl owned Bob during Dead Beat.
Justin owned Bob before Harry killed him.
Bob told Harry "Pretty good idea, Harry, talking to me once Cowl sat me on the ground. I didn't want to work for him anyway, but as long as he had the skull..."
Bob didn't tell Harry "Cowl is Justin" or "I didn't want to work for Justin".
Therefor Cowl is NOT Justin.
I do believe that Justin was a member of the Circle (Black Council) and Cowl learned much of what you outline above through that connection. (I don't think Kemler was a member of the Circle, I think the Circle wanted him dead... my guess is the Circle started out good (or maybe grey) and was taken over by Nemesis and the dark side of good intentions... to become what it is now)
If not Justin, who do you believe it is? Who is so familiar with Harry who is a powerful and well-trained (White Council level) wizard, who also might have experience with necromancy, who hits hard (perhaps harder) than a Senior Council wizard?
I would pick one of the wizards named when Eb takes his spot on the Sr Council. I don't have a great candidate.
I honestly had never considered Nameless. I am hoping CT will explain his idea further. It's intriguing, even if I can't yet see it myself. One of the main reasons I don't think it works is that Nameless is closer to being a demigod and but Cowl's magic feels human (even if it's incredibly strong).
When did Nameless work for Kemmler? Also, assuming your theory is correct, why would Nameless use a dark wizard and later hexenwolves as bait to flush out the information that Harry has Bob? And why would that reveal Bob is in Harry's possession?
I agree with you, Nameless is NOT Mortal and would not be identified as mortal by Mouse (Fugitive).
CT's theories are mostly "Cowl could have done this or learned this this way" but with Nameless pushed in, they don't point to Nameless specifically learning the information, but rather how Cowl could have learned it regardless of him being Nameless or not, and they are all generally good... I just don't see them supporting Nameless as Cowl.
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Cowl knew exactly what Bob was and what he contained ergo he had been around Bob before.
Known associates of Kemmler were Grevane, Corpsetaker (from the Wardens) and Nameless from Mab) Harry supplies Cowls name to Luccio Darin their phone call.
What was Nameless doing during Dead Beat? Why wasn’t he going for The Darkhallow?
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Nameless isn’t a necromancer so wasn’t going for the darkhallow…
If Justin Dumorn was a member of the circle (black council) it would also explain how Cowl knows about Bob. Nameless can’t have ever possessed Bob or Bob would have told Harry and cowl can’t have possessed Bob before DB or Bob would have told Harry… but Justin knowing cowl solves it and is likely.
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Really? We are told he worked with Kemmler, obviously on those projects Kemmler had involving puppies and kittens.
I would remind you Nameless had the bear spirit Skull in his office which Miss Lapland summoned the spirit of.
Nameless is a lawyer by trade, necromancy is probably what he does on his day off to relax instead of play golf.
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There is another male character/characters associated with TBC that have a past-present-future correlation. *bob voice* there's more than three dimensions Harry, time counts too. "Walking Before" could easily equate to the future, Between (I know it's Beside, Jim is dumb and wrong, He Who Walks Between sounds way cooler) the present, and Behind the past.
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And how has Harry not called any of them “He who walks like an Egyptian”?
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And how has Harry not called any of them “He who walks like an Egyptian”?
Jim was saving it for the BAT and you just spoiled it.