ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on January 18, 2023, 06:09:06 PM
-
Would knowing that have had any impact at all? Or… does he assume Eb already knows?
-
Well, the truth came out when Harry told Eb that Thomas was his brother. We saw the reaction.
-
Well, the truth came out when Harry told Eb that Thomas was his brother. We saw the reaction.
Why not immediately? I’m rereading right now and I don’t recall what happened.
-
Thomas and Eb met earlier in Peace Talks, Thomas knew exactly who Eb was, Eb didn’t know Thomas as other than a Whamp, and needled Harry endlessly.
Harry knew all along Eb’s view on Whamps and used it to beat him in his battle with Eb.
-
Why not immediately? I’m rereading right now and I don’t recall what happened.
I think for several books or the impression I get anyway, that Harry would have loved to have told
Eb earlier, but he also knew Eb's attitude towards vampires. What is interesting is that Eb never figured it out, especially given the events in Changes and the bloodline curse..
-
I think for several books or the impression I get anyway, that Harry would have loved to have told
Eb earlier, but he also knew Eb's attitude towards vampires. What is interesting is that Eb never figured it out, especially given the events in Changes and the bloodline curse..
Maybe Eb thinks his grandson was killed by Raith, who usually killed his male heirs?
-
Maybe Eb thinks his grandson was killed by Raith, who usually killed his male heirs?
That is possible, but his violent reaction was to the fact that Margaret consensually slept with Raith at all, let alone had a child by him. However Eb may have been in denial about this for years.
-
I agree with Mira. Also, looking at the way Ebenezer freaked out and attacked Lara in Turn Coat, when Lara said she was going to travel with Harry, I'm pretty sure Harry made the right decision not telling Eb about Thomas earlier. It just wasn't going to go well.
Even if in a later book Thomas should show up in front of Ebenezer as a KotC, I feel fairly certain that Eb wouldn't believe what he was seeing. Not right away.
-
The only opportunity to tell Eb was the breakfast visit in PT. Right after Harry invoked guest rights on EB, he could have stopped Thomas from leaving and had an impromptu family meeting. Perhaps in Next Book, we'll learn what caused the feud between Eb and the Whamps. I don't even think Lara knows the details of how it became so personal.
-
The only opportunity to tell Eb was the breakfast visit in PT. Right after Harry invoked guest rights on EB, he could have stopped Thomas from leaving and had an impromptu family meeting. Perhaps in Next Book, we'll learn what caused the feud between Eb and the Whamps. I don't even think Lara knows the details of how it became so personal.
That would have made sense. Has Harry told Thomas that Eb is his Grandfather?
-
That would have made sense. Has Harry told Thomas that Eb is his Grandfather?
I have to believe Thomas knows who his mother was. And that papa Raith and Lara know too.
-
That is possible, but his violent reaction was to the fact that Margaret consensually slept with Raith at all, let alone had a child by him. However Eb may have been in denial about this for years.
Oh, hates his ex-son in law for sure. But I think both the assumed dead and the hatred can live together. I am just giving a little possibility why Eb hasn't openly made the connection.
-
I have to believe Thomas knows who his mother was. And that papa Raith and Lara know too.
That is established fact from the text.
I think it is safe to assume that the White Court consider monogamy to be a tropical hardwood. We know Whamps are largely infertile and so spread it around, so during the period Raith was with Margaret he likely had hundreds if not thousands of sexual partners any of whom could have been Thomas mother. It may have been been a 1000 to 1 chance or greater that Thomas Mother was Margaret. Eb never saw Margaret pregnant and likely never knew of the pregnancy. Wilful blindness did the rest. The mothers never survived long after the birth and Thomas was the black sheep, his existence wouldn’t have been publicly announced, at least until his hunger manifested (not all Whamp children become Whamps, like Inari. I doubt Raith let anyone know of his failures if he could avoid it. He wouldn’t have known what he was until his hunger made its first kill, more than a decade after Margaret left.
-
I have to believe Thomas knows who his mother was. And that papa Raith and Lara know too.
We know Thomas knows his Mother. Unlike Harry he has living memories of Maggie Sr. Does Thomas know who his Grandfather is? That’s a different question.
-
We know Thomas knows his Mother. Unlike Harry he has living memories of Maggie Sr. Does Thomas know who his Grandfather is? That’s a different question.
It is, but unless Margaret failed to tell him who her father is, he should know. But it does get a bit weird, Harry had no clue until Blood Rites that Thomas was his brother, though Thomas knew and didn't tell him right off. Harry didn't know that Eb was his grandfather or that Margaret was his daughter, though he and Eb had that little heart to heart at the end of Blood Rites. Guess given Harry's injury Eb thought he had had enough shocks,i.e. that Eb was the Blackstaff. Back to Thomas, he and Harry never talked about Eb on page, so maybe he didn't figure it out. But then again in Changes, the bloodline curse, Thomas had to know, he isn't stupid.
-
We know Thomas knows his Mother. Unlike Harry he has living memories of Maggie Sr. Does Thomas know who his Grandfather is? That’s a different question.
When i said he knew who his mother was, I do not mean he only knew which woman in the Court was his mother. I mean he knew she was Margaret Le Fay, AKA Margaret McCoy, daughter of Ebenezar.
-
That is established fact from the text.
I think it is safe to assume that the White Court consider monogamy to be a tropical hardwood. We know Whamps are largely infertile and so spread it around, so during the period Raith was with Margaret he likely had hundreds if not thousands of sexual partners any of whom could have been Thomas mother. It may have been been a 1000 to 1 chance or greater that Thomas Mother was Margaret.
From the sound of it, she must have been favored, if not a wife, to get to invite her father to dinner with Raith. That's not a hookup. So if she is a person of status, affiliated with Raith, SHE is not likely to be sleeping around. So they know who is the baby daddy. Raith did, Lara did... Margaret is taken, and the court will know it. If the White king's Consort is pregnant - I'd imagine the WC knows, or they have REALLY bad intel.
-
I'm fairly sure that Thomas knew that Eb was his grandfather as of Changes. Harry explains the Bloodline curse to him in detail and I think it comes up. Would have to check the book to be certain though.
-
Mira,
But then again in Changes, the bloodline curse, Thomas had to know, he isn't stupid.
The bloodline curse affecting Thomas is explained by its activating via Maggie, to Harry, to Thomas. It barely occured to
Harry that Eb was among the targets until after everything had blown over. We simply don’t know if Harry said something to Thomas (Harry was avoiding Thomas please recall) or if Thomas figured it out for himself.
-
I'm fairly sure that Thomas knew that Eb was his grandfather as of Changes. Harry explains the Bloodline curse to him in detail and I think it comes up. Would have to check the book to be certain though.
Just re read Changes a couple of weeks ago. Harry never mentions Eb in the discussion of the Bloodline curse.
-
Just re read Changes a couple of weeks ago. Harry never mentions Eb in the discussion of the Bloodline curse.
Perhaps not directly, but he talks about Eb having dinner with his mother, Lord Raith, and Arrianna being present.. This is while Margaret was at the very least hanging out with Lord Raith. This is how the connection is figured out. Changes, the bloodline curse was all about planned revenge against Eb for knocking that satellite out of the sky that took out a lot of Red Court members, not Harry.
-
We don't know for sure if Harry ever told Thomas that Ebenezar is their grandfather. If it happened, it was off page.
Harry did not tell Ebenezar that Thomas is his grandson until they were having their big fight. This is after having a couple of years where he could have done so.
Harry also did not tell Ebenezar about Bonea. Note that the number of people who know that Bonea exists is very small.
So, Harry continues to have serious trust issues with many of the people in his life.
APG
-
We don't know for sure if Harry ever told Thomas that Ebenezar is their grandfather. If it happened, it was off page.
Harry did not tell Ebenezar that Thomas is his grandson until they were having their big fight. This is after having a couple of years where he could have done so.
Harry also did not tell Ebenezar about Bonea. Note that the number of people who know that Bonea exists is very small.
So, Harry continues to have serious trust issues with many of the people in his life.
APG
All that is true, it is obvious given, Eb's attitude towards vampires shaped Harry's thinking about whether or not to tell Eb. Then again, we never really see on page Harry and Thomas talking about it. In lots of ways it wasn't Harry's secret to reveal, it belonged to Thomas. Another thing, beyond the reveal in Blood Rites and the soul gaze where Margaret speaks to both her children, Thomas and Harry never speak about her. True, Thomas was a young boy when she left, but he should have some memories.. Maybe Lara will reveal some things to Harry as well.. We know she is the one who took care of young Thomas, but she would have also known a lot about who at the time was in fact her step mother. Odd don't you think? It isn't just Harry who doesn't ask questions.
-
Perhaps not directly, but he talks about Eb having dinner with his mother, Lord Raith, and Arrianna being present.. This is while Margaret was at the very least hanging out with Lord Raith. This is how the connection is figured out. Changes, the bloodline curse was all about planned revenge against Eb for knocking that satellite out of the sky that took out a lot of Red Court members, not Harry.
That was Eb talking to Harry privately after Thomas had evacuated with Molly.
-
What's frustrating about this topic is that even if Harry has a conversation with Thomas while he is in Demonreach, I doubt it they would talk about Ebenezer. They could, but it seems unlikely to me. So, it might only come up two books after Twelve Months; skipping Mirror Mirror, if it comes up then.
I reread the scene where Harry explains the blood curse to Thomas. Harry didn't mention the curse running from victim to parent and grandparent, so Thomas wouldn't have been clued-in from that conversation.
-
Thomas might also have known Eb was Margaret's father the same way Ariana did: by seeing them together.
He could have peeked in on a "grown up event" ... likely would have, if he heard his mom arguing with a strange man...
-
Thomas might also have known Eb was Margaret's father the same way Ariana did: by seeing them together.
He could have peeked in on a "grown up event" ... likely would have, if he heard his mom arguing with a strange man...
Exactly
-
Exactly
Thomas most likely knew. But EB hatred for Whampires is probably common knowledge.
But to me understanding Eb's reaction to Thomas comes down to this. Imagine harry finding out that Maggie jnr is dating a Ghoul. Then imagine his response. The ghoul and its entire species and the planet will burn
-
Not much difference between a teenage boy and a ghoul, except one smells less awful.
-
Not much difference between a teenage boy and a ghoul, except one smells less awful.
Well, sometimes..... ::)
-
I didn’t say which one.
Harry’s greatest fear is that Maggie will choose someone exactly like him.
He wants her to date someone exactly like Michael.
-
I didn’t say which one.
Harry’s greatest fear is that Maggie will choose someone exactly like him.
He wants her to date someone exactly like Michael.
No, actually he'd prefer she date no one and stay a little girl forever. Look how Jim has written her. She is what? Close to twelve years old now if she was six or seven at the time of Changes, supposedly very intelligent, yet he writes her like she is still six! Yes, issues to be expected after her experience, but really...