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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: BrainFireBob on August 12, 2022, 03:52:11 AM
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Bit of a one-off thought I've yet to see anywhere.
The first three major cases- Sells, Kravos, the Hexenwolves- they were about revealing the supernatural world in an undeniable way. Chicago was picked for its proximity to Demonreach, but the point was to do what Battle Ground did- tear down the veil.
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The first two books have an unidentified X who taught Victor Sells magic and tried to suborn the FBI with the Hexenwulf Belts. They are major cases because of this. Grave Peril introduced Cowl as a major intriguer working in Chicago and a lot of people consider it was Cowl responsible for the first two books protagonists. It therefore makes senses that Cowl is to some degree behind each of the major cases. It is Cowl sowing discord to rile up the Vampire Courts, to upset Faerie, create division in the White Council, behind the rise of the Fomor, aiming the Denarians at Chicago for their schemes etc. The proximity of Demonreach to Chicago may explain why Chicago in the long run, but also the presence of Dresden. A Starborn of interest to Mab’s secondin Chicago.
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The theme of the first half of the series is something is going haywire in the supernatural world. Guys like Victor Sells shouldn't suddenly acquire the knowledge and skills to blow people's hearts apart from long distance, F.B.I. Agents shouldn't be able to acquire hexenwolf belts, and all the while the White Council seems oblivious to it.. Harry can see there these events are not one ofs and that something or someone is behind it who he calls The Black Council.. So he sets out to find out who they are, he gets blamed for some of it, he gains some allies, and the picture gets more complicated by the end of Dead Beat..
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Bit of a one-off thought I've yet to see anywhere.
The first three major cases- Sells, Kravos, the Hexenwolves- they were about revealing the supernatural world in an undeniable way. Chicago was picked for its proximity to Demonreach, but the point was to do what Battle Ground did- tear down the veil.
I think it's exactly the opposite -- those were about maintaining the "masquerade" for the muggles.
Sells was working in the "undeworld" -- not only hard-to-trace-mundanely (being magic), but also hiding (as a criminal). ThirdEye was seen as just another hallucinogen by the authorities, and the deaths were just mysterious deaths. No risk of exposure.
Kravos ("the Nightmare") was even-further from Muggle perception, using dreams & mind-magic.
The FBI agents were also hiding their Hexenwulf identities.
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I think it's exactly the opposite -- those were about maintaining the "masquerade" for the muggles.
Sells was working in the "undeworld" -- not only hard-to-trace-mundanely (being magic), but also hiding (as a criminal). ThirdEye was seen as just another hallucinogen by the authorities, and the deaths were just mysterious deaths. No risk of exposure.
Kravos ("the Nightmare") was even-further from Muggle perception, using dreams & mind-magic.
The FBI agents were also hiding their Hexenwulf identities.
And most wizards on the Senior Council not only didn't take Harry serious when he suggested that there was something called the Black Council, there were those who thought he was only deflecting his own guilt. He wasn't right but nor was he wrong, it turns out the picture is a lot move complicated, and even at this stage there are no clear answers.
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And most wizards on the Senior Council not only didn't take Harry serious when he suggested that there was something called the Black Council, there were those who thought he was only deflecting his own guilt...
IIRC, Harry didn't even try to claim (officially, to the WC; or to the Senior Council... or even (officially) to the Wardens) that there was a "Black Council" operating in secret.
Eb (and Carlos) explained to Harry that this would be political suicide for the Senior Council, and likely death-knell to the entire WC itself.
The White Council is supposed to be all the badass wizards & the "Knowing Ones:" the people who can figure out your most-secret weaknesses, and exploit them. That there could -- even possibly -- be another entire organization of wizards (just as badass but even better at secrets!) would have seen WC wizards quitting in droves to go join that BC -- the "Better" Council.
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IIRC, Harry didn't even try to claim (officially, to the WC; or to the Senior Council... or even (officially) to the Wardens) that there was a "Black Council" operating in secret
Why would he? He knew he wouldn't be taken seriously.
Eb (and Carlos) explained to Harry that this would be political suicide for the Senior Council, and likely death-knell to the entire WC itself.
Yes, they chose to ignore the danger, to pretend what was going on around them wasn't a threat.
The White Council is supposed to be all the badass wizards & the "Knowing Ones:" the people who can figure out your most-secret weaknesses, and exploit them. That there could -- even possibly -- be another entire organization of wizards (just as badass but even better at secrets!) would have seen WC wizards quitting in droves to go join that BC -- the "Better" Council.
Yup, to put it crudely they had their heads so far up their collective asses, they could neither hear nor see what was going on.
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Why would he? He knew he wouldn't be taken seriously.
My point was that he never did address it in any "official" capacity.
... the Senior Council not only didn't take Harry serious when he suggested that there was something called the Black Council...
They wouldn't have; but also, he never did.
But actually, it's the nature of this kind of conflict that Eb & others were right, in saying not to unearth this. In cases of "covert ops" and "disinformation campaigns" and "psy-ops," one of the chief advantages of the "Grey Council" is that they too were operating in secret. The Black Council had been spotted, and there was organized resistance to the Black Council... and the BC didn't yet know they had been found out!
Just as it was an advantage to the BC to operate in secret, so it was for the GC.
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Yes, they chose to ignore the danger, to pretend what was going on around them wasn't a threat.
I do not think they chose to ignore it, they are simply taking less overt means to counter it - see the Gray Council.
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I think it's exactly the opposite -- those were about maintaining the "masquerade" for the muggles.
Sells was working in the "undeworld" -- not only hard-to-trace-mundanely (being magic), but also hiding (as a criminal). ThirdEye was seen as just another hallucinogen by the authorities, and the deaths were just mysterious deaths. No risk of exposure.
Kravos ("the Nightmare") was even-further from Muggle perception, using dreams & mind-magic.
The FBI agents were also hiding their Hexenwulf identities.
Check again.
Three Eye granted Sight- veil destroying Sight- to mortals.
The FBI were trying to expose the loup garou to hide their own activities.
And Kravos was empowering ghost appearances with far more power.
All of these things would expose the supernatural- seeing through glamours and veils, undeniable ghost events, a real loup garou.
Marcone was the obstacle against literal widespread eye opening to the supernatural- no surprise the second plot aimed at his removal.
Edit: As a further note, Sells worked for SilverCo and was using rituals. Harry got involved after meeting Marcone- the major obstacle to spreading 3 Eye- in his car.
The second book was targeted, through a cat's paw- at Marcone.
Truth, I also think Lord Raith was the primary antagonist through the first few books
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I do not think they chose to ignore it, they are simply taking less overt means to counter it - see the Gray Council.
But the Gray Council is in of itself a secret group. A group who doesn't trust it's fellow Council members to either recognize the danger or see the need to counter the Black Council. They also fear repercussions if their fellow Council members found out.
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Three Eye granted Sight- veil destroying Sight- to mortals.
Not quite as simple as that; it was addictive, and people only got the Sight while they were high (and borderline irrational). "Everybody knows" you can't believe what's seen on a hallucinatory high. So this channel is inherently discredited -- from the muggle POV -- from the beginning.
Even Harry didn't think it was anything other than "just another street-drug," until one of the addicts called out HWWB.
If you already know about the supernatural and the Sight -- if you're already a practitioner -- then it's relatively easy to confirm the validity of ThreeEye; but virtually impossible, for Muggles to even want to do so, or to try; let alone to succeed.
As an "unmask the masquerade" project, ThreeEye is kind of a non-starter.
The FBI were trying to expose the loup garou to hide their own activities.
Again, I think there's more complexity here: The FBI agents were pretty wide-ranging in scope, and couldn't "cover their tracks" with a single Loup Garou in Chicago. They were just taking advantage of the specifics of this particular case to muddy the waters a bit. But a "wolf" isn't going to "expose the supernatural" -- it's just a wolf!Truth, I also think Lord Raith was the primary antagonist through the first few books
(Also, of course, Jim was writing "the werewolf book" and wanted multiple kinds of werewolf.)
And Kravos was empowering ghost appearances with far more power.
Except ghosts -- like hallucinogenic drugs -- are an inherently non-credible channel to expose the supernatural. The muggles already have their built-in excuses and firmly-worn blinkers.
Truth, I also think Lord Raith was the primary antagonist through the first few books
I think you are right about this; but then, I think that weakens your main premise -- the Whamps would hate to have a widespread awareness of the supernatural amongst the mortals!
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But the Gray Council is in of itself a secret group. A group who doesn't trust it's fellow Council members to either recognize the danger or see the need to counter the Black Council. They also fear repercussions if their fellow Council members found out.
Ah, but can we be sure Langtry does not have a Beige Council we do not know about of his own? Possibly with Mei. Does Martha Liberty have agents? He likely has his own feelers and agents out there. All of the Council may be taking action - disjoint, less efficient action, but action.
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Ah, but can we be sure Langtry does not have a Beige Council we do not know about of his own? Possibly with Mei. Does Martha Liberty have agents? He likely has his own feelers and agents out there. All of the Council may be taking action - disjoint, less efficient action, but action.
The proof that there isn't is the fact that these fires keep cropping up and it is left to Harry of all people to put them out. It's kind of like climate change, a lot of talk, a lot of denial, very little action, mostly reaction.
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We can assume Langtry has an off-white Council of his personal cronies. We have seen him chafe under consensus building when things don’t go his way, and they took the younger wardens into custody to prevent them coming to Harry’s aid. I think Justin was one of his and Bob was his price.
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The proof that there isn't is the fact that these fires keep cropping up and it is left to Harry of all people to put them out. It's kind of like climate change, a lot of talk, a lot of denial, very little action, mostly reaction.
Doesn't follow. Suppose there was a plan to release a plague in London. Langtry's group gets word, and snuffs out the conspiracy before it happens. A fire prevented does not need to be snuffed out. The team did something, but quietly. The fact a couple of fires pop up doesn't mean there might not have been a dozen planned and 10 blocked.
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Ah, but can we be sure Langtry does not have a Beige Council we do not know about of his own? Possibly with Mei. Does Martha Liberty have agents? He likely has his own feelers and agents out there ...
We can assume Langtry has an off-white Council of his personal cronies. We have seen him chafe under consensus building when things don’t go his way, and they took the younger wardens into custody to prevent them coming to Harry’s aid.
I think it likely -- virtually certain -- that Langtry has "feelers and agents". Harry has them. Eb has them. So far as we can tell, everybody (of a certain power) has such networks of people (and... other entities).
I am dubious Langtry actually has a "council" -- he's already chafing under the strictures of one "council," and I expect his own personal group would be more a "cadre" -- top-down authority, with himself at the top, and without the limitations of needing to "play politics" to get anything done.
HOWEVER: I suspect he is (very secretly) a part of the Grey Council itself. Wait wait ! ... bear with me here...
The WC "cannot publically admit" to the possibility of a "Black Council." But the Merlin is smart, politically savvy, cynical, and realistic. If a n00b like Harry is seeing the signs, Arthur Langtry probably saw them (and saw the need for covert action) decades ago.
So when the Merlin realized the Blackstaff was building a "Grey Council," he probably said "I want in... or else."
Then he acted on the GC like a co-equal participant (instead of a bossy arsehole). After all -- Odin is on the GC: Langtry is smart enough to pull his horns in. Win-win for him: he gets to keep stability on the WC, publicly denying any "Black Council," and remain "the Merlin," the public face & voice of reason and calm... and yet also be an activist / covert-ops wizard, not limited by "White Council" policy & legalities (make that a win-win-win, given his own cadre for when even GC politics is too limiting).
I think Justin was one of his and Bob was his price.
I'm highly dubious that Kemmler's personal lab-assistant & magical notebook would be an acceptable price. The downside risk is just too high (as witness the Darkhallow that almost succeeded... because of the skull; hardly a contingency that's hard to predict!).
I suspect Justin was mostly his own agent, seeking his own power (but working with other parties (often as a "junior" (often a very junior) ally). But I think I'll spin that into another thread, so as not to drift this one too much... Justin (& his agenda) is part of Harry's (still very mysterious & unexplained) origin-story, not merely a "first few books" topic!