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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Kvothe on August 11, 2022, 05:41:09 PM
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Ever since Dresden met the Archive and realized what she was, he has never approached her for information about his mother, being Star Born, the Nickelheads, the wards on the island & now his new home/castle or any other issues.
Seems he has missed an opportunity. It’s odd. He is smarter than this.
Topic moved to DF Spoilers as subject likely will cover spoiler material - Mod team
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Aside from the obvious (i.e. that Jim can't make it too easy for Dresden, has to have him discover things along the way otherwise there won't be any more books), I think there are a few in-universe possibilities.
The main one being that the Archive is supposedly neutral. I believe the Archive itself is neutral except when defending itself, and perhaps the threat of a being like Ethniu was enough of a loophole. Ivy herself is separate from the Archive due to Harry's meddling...this will have consequences of course, but I believe one of those is that Ivy can be a bit less neutral than previous avatars of the Archive. That being said, back in Changes Harry tries to get the Archive to tell him the location of his daughter, and Ivy cannot. I believe Kincaid even presses the point and implies there is some sort of impediment (likely magical).
Secondly, even if Dresden could ask all the questions he needed to it isn't really like him to do so. Yes, he has an investigative mind...but only when it comes to things external. Only most recently is he prepared to look inward. He hates it. He is improving, but I suspect he doesn't really want to look into who his mother really was and her associations for fear of what he might find. He's had enough hints to know there is plenty of dark stuff there. And Dresden often doesn't take revelations well.
Thirdly, he has been exceptionally busy the past few years. Since Changes really. I hope he will eventually get time to uncover some secrets but likely it will all be "on the job" so to speak.
Finally, information is valuable. Despite his friendship with Ivy (which is actually quite frosty since Changes) I doubt that even were they able to move past all that she would just give him all the information for free. Sure, she might give as much as she could. But I suspect there would be a price for the really good stuff. Not a trade-for-your-soul type deal, but certainly in favors or other obligations. Harry has enough of those as it is!
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Harry and not asking questions he knows he really should is one of the series most iconic duo's, right next to Harry and blunt force trauma.
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Kincaid returned to the phone and said, “Ivy says she can’t get involved. That the business you’re on is deadly. She dares not unbalance it for fear of changing the outcome.”
I made a growling sound. “Goddammit, Kincaid. She owes me one. Remind her who came and took her away from those fucking Denarian lunatics.”
Kincaid’s voice became quieter, more sober. “Believe me, she remembers, Dresden. But she isn’t free to share her knowledge like you or me. When she says she can’t tell you, she’s being literal. She physically cannot let such information leave her head.”
That is the rationale. She can't help. In her own way she is bound as much as an Angel.
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Also, a lot of that sort of stuff likely is not written down! Who is writing down the wards and tricks to their castle - if anyone finds it, they may be able to thwart your defenses! Or reverse engineer them.
The Nickelheads may have a lot written about them. Possibly a WHOLE lot. And much may be contradictory - we do not know she can sort out true from false, just she knows what is reported.
Who would write down much about his Mom? Maybe Eb, but that is likely it.
And yeah, she likely has to earn a living, so there may be costs involved.
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The Archive should be one of the richest people in the world. She has every bit of information ever recorded in any medium other than the mind at her fingertips. Just think of having access to every Bitcoin in the world, every lost treasure map every secret formula/recipe and how you could leverage that.
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The Archive should be one of the richest people in the world. She has every bit of information ever recorded in any medium other than the mind at her fingertips. Just think of having access to every Bitcoin in the world, every lost treasure map every secret formula/recipe and how you could leverage that.
She has everyone's credit card details, we're lucky Ivy is a nice girl
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Also, a lot of that sort of stuff likely is not written down! Who is writing down the wards and tricks to their castle - if anyone finds it, they may be able to thwart your defenses! Or reverse engineer them.
Almost everyone would write things down during the planning-it-out phase. You may destroy the notes, but making them up-front looks nigh-inevitable.
Denarians have the mental capacity to just know things -- Angels I think have something like intellectus for their domain. And they know enough not to commit critical plans to any form of writing. Odin likely, too; and Ferrovax & the other dragons.
Mab... maybe. I think the Archive was a deep secret from before Mab was Mab... even before she was born a mortal girl.
The Nickelheads may have a lot written about them. Possibly a WHOLE lot. And much may be contradictory - we do not know she can sort out true from false, just she knows what is reported.
I'm pretty sure the Archive has an absolutely superhuman ability to sort information, correlate and organize it. Denarians are likely the only entities capable of perpetrating a deception upon the Archive, and even THEY will be challenged -- they don't know what other info may be out there, with dangling threads the Archive can tug upon to unravel their lies.
Who would write down much about his Mom? Maybe Eb, but that is likely it.
The Wardens, to begin with. Harry had seen Warden reports on Hannah Ascher, recognized her on sight. Morgan kept a journal, and I doubt he was the only one: wizards live for centuries, and being able to remind yourself of details from long in your past could be crucial. Eb has a huge set of books from the magical master/apprentice lineage of Merlin. Wizards love books & writing!
The Whamps, for another. Lara confirms that House Raith has profiles on most of the Wardens themselves, and I presume they have similar profiles for other "interesting" humans (and other entities, too!). And we know House Raith thought Margaret LeFay was interesting!
It wouldn't surprise me if the Ramps had kept such records, either.
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Harry and not asking questions he knows he really should is one of the series most iconic duo's, right next to Harry and blunt force trauma.
Oh, lovely Title for a Dresden File BLUNT FORCE “Harry undiplomatically takes the White Council to task whilst simultaneously suffering from multiple concussions” that applies to several books already I think.
The Archive is neutral and has two roles (1) the preservation of human knowledge and through it society and culture (2) the Oblivion War (much the same thing) she became involved in the Battle of Chicago because of (1) the first thing Ethnui did was destroy the electronic records of the City of Chicago, a direct challenge to the Archive.
Harry is aware Ivy is still a vulnerable young girl and so would not take advantage of her for his own gain, it would be anathema. It would also destroy her neutrality. She has the Word of Kemmler and much other dangerous info.
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That is the rationale. She can't help. In her own way she is bound as much as an Angel.
Indeed, although I suspect the limits are not as severe. Jim also makes rules like these and then doesn't bring them up again (I refer again to the Archive's involvement against Ethniu).
The Archive should be one of the richest people in the world. She has every bit of information ever recorded in any medium other than the mind at her fingertips. Just think of having access to every Bitcoin in the world, every lost treasure map every secret formula/recipe and how you could leverage that.
Assuming she can and would exploit such information of course. Considering the Archive is passed down mother to daughter since it was first created in ancient times (perhaps pre-ancient Greece), I wouldn't be surprised if she has significant financial holdings, so I doubt she would need to exploit any current information. Beyond any of that though, given her abilities and knowledge I doubt she even needs money. Money is simply a tool. She has so many others at her disposal, not to mention she likely could get as much money as she needed for any endeavour exceptionally quickly.
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Indeed, although I suspect the limits are not as severe. Jim also makes rules like these and then doesn't bring them up again (I refer again to the Archive's involvement against Ethniu).
Butcher does this type of thing whenever it suits him. He wanted to write a war story and thus threw continuity to the winds. But mostly he has used her as an observer who is above the fray except for the Oblivion War, which is hidden.
It isn't a thing where Harry has never asked these type of questions, because he has. He just gets rebuffed. Either the price is too high or something interferes. Butcher is a tease and probably hasn't thought of the answers yet.
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I think the short story and now from what we saw in both Peace Talks and Battle Ground, is Ivy has learned that being close to someone in a personal emotional human way, while it has benefits, it can also bring pain. For her own sanity she made the logical and for her correct choice, she is what she is, The Archive, and cannot allow her human side to interfere. I think Harry understands this on an intellectual level, but he is still hurt by it. I also think he understands that his choices did cause Ivy pain, the damage that pain could have caused and that she is no longer Ivy, but is what she is and always was, the Archive. I don't think however that he or Kincaid were wrong in trying to treat her like a little girl when she was one. If she is well adjusted at all it is because they chose to do so.
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Re: Castle wards
Almost everyone would write things down during the planning-it-out phase. You may destroy the notes, but making them up-front looks nigh-inevitable.
but the guys building the wards are the high mages who will know of the Archive. And that she will learn of it. Those paranoids are the ones building the castles.
Denarians have the mental capacity to just know things -- Angels I think have something like intellectus for their domain. And they know enough not to commit critical plans to any form of writing. Odin likely, too; and Ferrovax & the other dragons.
Mab... maybe. I think the Archive was a deep secret from before Mab was Mab... even before she was born a mortal girl.
I also would not be surprised if Angels have their own writings and scripts unintelligible to humans, including the Archive. But they likely don't have to write it down anyway. Likewise the actual Fallen, but likely not their Denarian hosts. But they don't look like they are book-of-the-month club members.
Odin and Mab, see the Angels. They are not quite at that level (Odin maybe lower angel? not Uriel, but his foot cops?), and Ferrovax likely above foot cop angel, below Uriel. Likely exceeded only by Uriel and the Mothers. Above Ivy's pay grade.
I'm pretty sure the Archive has an absolutely superhuman ability to sort information, correlate and organize it. Denarians are likely the only entities capable of perpetrating a deception upon the Archive, and even THEY will be challenged -- they don't know what other info may be out there, with dangling threads the Archive can tug upon to unravel their lies.
There is sort, organize, and VERIFY. How much can she VERIFY? A computer can store and retrieve. It, or Ivy, can say "Neil DeGrasse Tyson says this on dark matter, and Hawking says this" and present two opposing views. It can be accurate both men made those statement...but at least one has to be WRONG. Can Ivy tell? A computer or library can't. (I don't know their view or if they disagree, it's just an arguable topic.)
The Wardens, to begin with. Harry had seen Warden reports on Hannah Ascher, recognized her on sight. Morgan kept a journal, and I doubt he was the only one: wizards live for centuries, and being able to remind yourself of details from long in your past could be crucial. Eb has a huge set of books from the magical master/apprentice lineage of Merlin. Wizards love books & writing!
The Whamps, for another. Lara confirms that House Raith has profiles on most of the Wardens themselves, and I presume they have similar profiles for other "interesting" humans (and other entities, too!). And we know House Raith thought Margaret LeFay was interesting!
It wouldn't surprise me if the Ramps had kept such records, either.
Point. The Wardens would have such records besides Eb (we have seen she is in his journal) , and there is mention of the Whamps even having files on some trainee wardens. You are correct. I blew that one.
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Indeed, although I suspect the limits are not as severe. Jim also makes rules like these and then doesn't bring them up again (I refer again to the Archive's involvement against Ethniu).
We are led to believe she lives at least in the area. A threat to Chicago is not a threat to, say, San Diego. Her area, so a threat to her. Plus, getting culture blasted back to the Stone Age or enslaved by an outside force is not "Let them decide between democracy, or socialism, or communism, or a dictatorship - so long as they do it to themselves."
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... but the guys building the wards are the high mages who will know of the Archive. And that she will learn of it. Those paranoids are the ones building the castles.
I am unclear on the WoJ / fannish knowledge, vs. the in-world knowledge.
How many people in the Dresden'verse actually know the Archive receives all information the moment it is committed to [paper / clay tablet / electrons / whatever]? One of the Archive's chiefest defenses and tools is that people DON'T know about her. Particularly, they don't know about the Oblivion War; and even among those who DO know, they probably don't know the Archive's role: for this one, specific piece of knowledge, her role is to forget.
But whatever degree of info about the Archive's purpose -- do they know HOW she gathers info???
Angelic beings obviously know, Fallen or not. They were there when the Archive enchantment was being created (maybe 2800-3500 years ago(?) ... that's roughly when Apollo moved into the temple at Delphi, and the Pythia began oracular activity).
Mab may not know: she has only been "Mab" for about 1000 years. Presumably the Mothers know, as they were apparently PART of that pantheon; but the fae LOVE their secrets, and Mab certainly doesn't know everything Mother Winter knows!
Odin's a "senior" god... but from another pantheon, and may not have been privy to what the Greek deities were up to.
etc.
I'm unclear that most mortal wizards would know the Archive's secrets... not even very-senior wizards.
But maybe the secret has gotten out, is not-so-secret anymore ... ?
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We are led to believe she lives at least in the area...
Are we? (led to believe that)?
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Are we? (led to believe that)?
Yeah, in Small Favor I seem to remember Harry meeting her and Kincaid's train. My impression was at least during that time she didn't live in Chicago.
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Yeah, in Small Favor I seem to remember Harry meeting her and Kincaid's train. My impression was at least during that time she didn't live in Chicago.
Yep. She (seems to have) arrived on the same train with a group of school-children.
The "obvious conclusion" is that she arrived from out-of-area; on the other hand, maybe that's "too obvious" and is misdirection; on the gripping hand, this paranoid/obsessive "what if" loop is beginning to look a lot like Vizzini's logic... ;-)
She may have been travelling with them in a form of "protective coloration."
She may have arrived in the train-station via magic (merely to make it seem like she had arrived by train, or because "travel nexus" location was a good site to arrive at, or etc).
She may have boarded the train just 1 station away.
We really don't know.
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Yep. She (seems to have) arrived on the same train with a group of school-children.
The "obvious conclusion" is that she arrived from out-of-area; on the other hand, maybe that's "too obvious" and is misdirection; on the gripping hand, this paranoid/obsessive "what if" loop is beginning to look a lot like Vizzini's logic... ;-)
She may have been travelling with them in a form of "protective coloration."
She may have arrived in the train-station via magic (merely to make it seem like she had arrived by train, or because "travel nexus" location was a good site to arrive at, or etc).
She may have boarded the train just 1 station away.
We really don't know.
No luggage or anything, I had gotten an impression it might have been a commuter line. People don't travel long distances by train as much as by air, especially outside the AMTRAK Northeast Corridor. Probably not city proper, but I had the feel it was area.
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No luggage or anything, I had gotten an impression it might have been a commuter line. People don't travel long distances by train as much as by air, especially outside the AMTRAK Northeast Corridor. Probably not city proper, but I had the feel it was area.
Actually millions of people commute into Chicago by train, they have to, going by car is a nightmare. She may have lived in the suburbs or one of the neighboring towns like my son does. He doesn't use a train to commute every day because of the nature of his job, but his wife did when she worked in Chicago.. It takes my son between one to two hours by car to get down town, it took my daughter in law half that time by train. Any way you slice it, you can say that Ivy didn't live in Chicago.
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My guess is the Archive resides in Milwaukee, it vanished for a reason in the Unseelie Incursion of 94, so if it was for the death of the current Archives grandmother leading to the birth of the current Archive in 1995 then Ivy would be 18- 19 by Battle Ground in 2014. Harry remarks at how grown up she looks.
Harry estimated Ivy as 12 - 13 in Ghost Story in 2012, but this is only his estimation and he is an unreliable narrator, so he could be several years off. This timeline would make her 16 when she dismissed Kincaid, when she could reach the pedals and drive herself.
Milwaukee would be a simple train journey for the Archive as presumably she is subject to the normal mortal wizard fudge factors ruling out air travel, and her neutrality ruling out travel via the Ways largely controlled by Winter and Summer. Nick would have taken this into account.
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I suspect that Ivy was on a train because you can get off if attacked. We won't mention that her stuff would have been in a baggage car.
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Harry estimated Ivy as 12 - 13 in Ghost Story in 2012, but this is only his estimation and he is an unreliable narrator, so he could be several years off. This timeline would make her 16 when she dismissed Kincaid, when she could reach the pedals and drive herself.
I think that works because when we meet her in Death Masks she appears to be anywhere from five to seven years of age given her reaction to Mister. Then again Jim has a hard time writing young girls. Molly at the age of twelve or thirteen seemed like she was going on twenty, where as Maggie who is about twelve now reads more like a seven or eight year old.
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... Then again Jim has a hard time writing young girls. Molly at the age of twelve or thirteen seemed like she was going on twenty, where as Maggie who is about twelve now reads more like a seven or eight year old.
This is a very good point.
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Actually millions of people commute into Chicago by train, they have to, going by car is a nightmare. She may have lived in the suburbs or one of the neighboring towns like my son does. He doesn't use a train to commute every day because of the nature of his job, but his wife did when she worked in Chicago.. It takes my son between one to two hours by car to get down town, it took my daughter in law half that time by train. Any way you slice it, you can say that Ivy didn't live in Chicago.
Seen NYC ? - Chicago commute is relatively easy. I'm thinking Metro north/LIRR/NJ Transit style. She could be in the NW suburbs, for example. Southern Wisconsin - Lake Geneva? Jim might put her there for the gaming connection. ChicagoLAND if not Chicago.
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This is a very good point.
He could write that off as the difference between growing up the eldest daughter of a pack of kids (assistant mom) as opposed to an only child in hiding. Plus... Charity? She'd age the kid....
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Seen NYC ? - Chicago commute is relatively easy. I'm thinking Metro north/LIRR/NJ Transit style. She could be in the NW suburbs, for example. Southern Wisconsin - Lake Geneva? Jim might put her there for the gaming connection. ChicagoLAND if not Chicago.
Whatever, been to New York and stayed on Long Island and did drive into the city.. Both are bad, the problem is there are too many people, too many cars, and the infrastructure cannot deal with it.
But that is neither here nor there, all I am saying is Ivy could live less than twenty miles out of town, and still take a commuter train into town.. Ten miles or twenty miles or a hundred miles, she still isn't living in Chicago.
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No luggage or anything, I had gotten an impression it might have been a commuter line. People don't travel long distances by train as much as by air, especially outside the AMTRAK Northeast Corridor. Probably not city proper, but I had the feel it was area.
Actually she had a carry on bag with extra clothes in the train. Which means nothing since even if she was local she was staying in a hotel. Kincaid gives the impression that they had come from someplace without snow and maybe warmer but that is just an impression. You can't know what Butcher doesn't tell you. And he never mentions where she lives.
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I absolutely do not know why -- cannot offer a citation, or even a vague memory -- but had always envisioned Ivy living somewhere in Europe.
???
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Actually she had a carry on bag with extra clothes in the train. Which means nothing since even if she was local she was staying in a hotel. Kincaid gives the impression that they had come from someplace without snow and maybe warmer but that is just an impression. You can't know what Butcher doesn't tell you. And he never mentions where she lives.
However it wasn't snowing if I remember correctly when they arrived. I cannot remember what time of year they did show up, only either the Cubs had no home games when the duel was scheduled, or it was off season.. At that time the Cubs weren't in any playoffs either if I remember correctly so Mid- October to early spring, [not sure when baseball season begins] so yeah, it can get quite cool that time of year. Actually in most parts of the country one can have chilly evenings and mornings.
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However it wasn't snowing if I remember correctly when they arrived. I cannot remember what time of year they did show up, only either the Cubs had no home games when the duel was scheduled, or it was off season.. At that time the Cubs weren't in any playoffs either if I remember correctly so Mid- October to early spring, [not sure when baseball season begins] so yeah, it can get quite cool that time of year. Actually in most parts of the country one can have chilly evenings and mornings.
It was very very cold; Luccio & the Archive had to be in the cab, Harry was in pretty bad shape from riding home (wet, it must be admitted) in the bed of the truck.
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This is in Small Favor and it was during a blizzard. Harry is attacked in the Carpenter's backyard during a snowball fight to kick off the book. ;)
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Ever since Dresden met the Archive and realized what she was, he has never approached her for information about his mother, being Star Born, the Nickelheads, the wards on the island & now his new home/castle or any other issues.
Seems he has missed an opportunity. It’s odd. He is smarter than this.
Topic moved to DF Spoilers as subject likely will cover spoiler material - Mod team
I don't know if someone has already mentioned this but Nicodemus likes to destroy records kept on him whenever he can. Michael Carpenter mentions this in Grave Peril.
Now in Small Favor he had the Archive at his mercy, it hasn't been mentioned but I would assume while Tessa and Rosanna were torturing Ivy, Nicodemus used the distraction to magically/forcibly delete information on him from the Archive.
It is the type of move I would expect from him. Thusly the Archive might not have much info on Nicodemus anymore.
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It’s why he wanted to subvert the Archive as well as have acces to her power.
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... I would assume while Tessa and Rosanna were torturing Ivy, Nicodemus used the distraction to magically/forcibly delete information on him from the Archive ...
I don't think he can. I mean... yes, obviously Anduriel has the power & knowledge; but I think that's the sort of explicitly-against-the-rules action that would give Uriel &co a HUGE amount of scope to act in response... Something even bigger than a fanservice Jedi Knight of the Cross.
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I don't know if someone has already mentioned this but Nicodemus likes to destroy records kept on him whenever he can. Michael Carpenter mentions this in Grave Peril.
Now in Small Favor he had the Archive at his mercy, it hasn't been mentioned but I would assume while Tessa and Rosanna were torturing Ivy, Nicodemus used the distraction to magically/forcibly delete information on him from the Archive.
It is the type of move I would expect from him. Thusly the Archive might not have much info on Nicodemus anymore.
I doubt this takes place.
For one, Nic and his cronies never do break through the Archives defenses. She's captured and helpless but still has a core of resistance when rescued.
Secondly, we have no indication that information can be deleted from the Archive. She can be killed but considering her role against the Outsiders, I would posit that her mantle has absolute proof against tampering short of destruction. Whoever set it up even made it broad enough to encompass methods of recording not even dreamed of by mortals at the time of it's creation. We don't even know if Ivy actually deletes the information of an Outsider erased by the Venatori(There may be a WoJ that contradicts me.) or if she just puts the information in a secure compartment in her brain with a do not open ever protocol.
And finally, the Archive is neutral even to the point of non-retaliation outside of immediate threats. She won't give out infomation for any reason that isn't directly part of her purpose. Nic and his crew are not working with the Outsiders as far as she know, otherwise all their hideouts would be exposed, their finances ruined and their pictures posted in every LEO office in the world to balance that assault.
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... Nic and his cronies never do break through the Archives defenses. She's captured and helpless but still has a core of resistance when rescued ...
Well... maybe.
I have an alternate WAG; I don't think Jim has planned it this way, but ... nothing written actually precludes it.
What if they broke Ivy... or even bargained with her, convinced her that accepting a Denarius would benefit the Archive's work???
Maybe the "resucue" was staged, and Ivy was simply playing the role of "helpless victim" & engaging Harry's "protect the young" reflexes (and consequent turn-off-the-brain behaviors)?
We know that a mere Shadow can override the senses of their host. There's no reason she would actually have to be suffering, there in the "prison" they had placed her in. (come to think of it: Lasciel's shadow had shown Harry some solid pain-management methods; it's entirely-likely that the Archive knew enough to render Ivy immune to such things... which in turn turns up the likelihood that the whole "Ivy being tormented" scene was staged for effect, not genuine!)
... Secondly, we have no indication that information can be deleted from the Archive ... We don't even know if Ivy actually deletes the information of an Outsider erased by the Venatori(There may be a WoJ that contradicts me.) or if she just puts the information in a secure compartment in her brain with a do not open ever protocol ...
I'm pretty sure WoJ says "erased," but ... we see Bob (who seems to be lesser model of the Archive) only ever does the "compartmentalization" thing. Jim may have been speaking (or thinking) sloppily at the moment the question was asked.
Or he may have lied, in service of the story & not-revealing-spoilers.
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Nicky was trying to break Ivy, it is possible her mothers suicide indicates this. At that point Nicky has a Rasmussen? style host, the body effectively run by a Fallen in a total abdication of free will to the Fallen.
At that point Nicky has a Fallen Archive with no pesky free will. The Fallen absorbs the entirety of the information of the Archive (all recorded information of humanity to date, even that previously destroyed ) and the host body is then superfluous.
The question is - what was Nicky looking for in the Archive? Information lost or obscured even from Anduriel? What information would justify him being thrown out the Accords and having the entire supernatural world at his throat? Was he looking for clues to the whereabouts of the Spear? He risked his daughter for that. Did this give the opening for him to be set up in Skin Game? Uriel is an intellectus, he would know what they were interrogating the Archive about, he could do nothing about it and Nicky would know this, indeed glory in it, he had done what he could already do in granting Harry Soul Fire. Nicky wouldn’t know Mab was already working with Uriel, the use of Kringle as a go-between was an established thing, an open route for information probably thought limited to Christmas rather than an information route directly into Winter. Mab and Uriel may have burnt this particular route with Nicky now with the benefit of hindsight. He knows he was had. Thinking about it Mab knew she had spies in her court (Nameless) so using Kringle prevented Anduriel or Nameless finding out about the contact and the flow of information, especially Odin is a security expert - as Kringle he provided a secure back channel.
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To answer the og question about why harry never asked the archive or eb, or anyone else about starborn, his mom or any other spoiler is that the price is probably too high. Also i think wizard mentors drill the students on the price of information.
Harry wasn't abuse but molly never asked about the skull. Harry probably made it difficult for molly to ask too many questions that so that in the future she would know that curiosity definitely kills the cat. Im sure justin was the type to punish you if you asked a question he didn't like, or thought you weren't ready for. Wizards learn early on to hoard knowledge like smaug hoards gold
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I don't think he can. I mean... yes, obviously Anduriel has the power & knowledge;
I'm not so sure about that. We don't know what powers designed and built her. Andy can probably DESTROY her beyond recovery, but maybe it triggers essentially a > FORMAT C: and wipes her clean? Her engineer likely has some sort of offsite backup (a mirror image clone? quantum state drives?) so he will have access to the info, but denies it to the other side. If her walls are crumbling... I think she self destructs. Her Masada subroutine.
Really, there's got to be a backup plan. What if her train going to Chicago crashes? Maybe some other Archive had multiple daughters and they transfer it to a cadet line? Some woman who doesn't even know the story of the Archive becomes her?
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... We don't know what powers designed and built her ...
This.
EVER so much this!
We really don't know.
... Andy can probably DESTROY her beyond recovery, but maybe it triggers essentially a > FORMAT C: and wipes her clean? ...
My own sense of it -- just a hunch, I have neither Canon nor WoJ to cite in support -- is that the Archive is a Demonreach-caliber enchantment. It was probably created by some Mediterranean ur-Wizard figure (akin to what Merlin was, up-north).
If I'm right, then an Angel-caliber being -- if acting without restraints -- could simply bypass all the protections, freeze any "emergency/contingency" processes, and unwrap the all the Archive's stored knowledge like the worlds biggest pile of birthday presents. I simply think that such unrestrained action (by the Fallen) would free Uriel (and other Angels... including those who are inclined to direct & even violent action) to take counter-measures, and (for example) the Archangel Michael would kick their butts.
If the Archive was actually built by some god-level being, an Angel, or the like... then yeah, it's probably not susceptible to force even by Andy & co. But I don't think this is the case: those sorts of beings would have foreseen something like the Internet, and WoJ has stated that the Internet was unforeseen by the Archive's creator.
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Probably the same entity who designed and built the Fae Mantles, both are constructs designed to protect humanity from outside interference therefore that entity has a vested interest in humanity’s survival. That would suggest it is the White God.
This is understandable if the White God arises from humanity through something like the singularity, enough human consciousness and their technology lead to the creation in the future of the White God. Why not? Humanity has created several of the monsters like the Redcap, the Gremlins and the Baku featured in the Files so why not the White God? Once coming into existence the White God will have existed for all time.
The White God I theorise proscribed the existence of the heavy hitters from the mortal world, they could power down like Odin, retreat to the Never Never like Hades or suffer Demonreach like Ethnui. This left the minor threats, things at a level humanity and it’s technology could band against and overcome as a spur to humanity’s development of society and technology the vampires, the ghouls, the Wildfae etc, threats to individual humans but not humanity. Threats from outside were dealt with by the Courts and the Archive. Threats from the Fallen by the Knights and other champions. None of this interferes with the free will of humanity required for it to develop towards the singularity and the creation of the White God.
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If only there were a being around that had a vast storehouse of knowledge and who, with enhancement similar to Anduriel's, was available for the job. One who had no restrictions on what it could do.
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Probably the same entity who designed and built the Fae Mantles, both are constructs designed to protect humanity from outside interference therefore that entity has a vested interest in humanity’s survival. That would suggest it is the White God ...
No, the Lady/Queen/Mantle division was -- I strongly suspect -- done by an ancient north-Mediterrenian deity (or trio); done to itself. Also the bifurcation into Summer/Winter. The "self" is kept in the Mother(s)*; Queens and Ladies change more often, and keep some portion of their original identities (Mab& Titania still recall theirs).
They constructed their own Mantles, invested perhaps a High Priestess, or some nymph, as the very-first Queens, and their daughters as the very-first Ladies.
I suspect this is (like Odin's action) a method chosen specifically to enable them to continue acting within the mortal realm.
(*) n.b. the Mothers -- those most-extreme & most-primal expressions of the ever-warring Summer & Winter -- cohabit the same space in the deep Nevernever. I think, at the Mother level, the differences are really rather minor... Maybe only even existing as a difference from the limited mortal POV (how's that for a WAG?).
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No, the Lady/Queen/Mantle division was -- I strongly suspect -- done by an ancient north-Mediterrenian deity (or trio); done to itself. Also the bifurcation into Summer/Winter. The "self" is kept in the Mother(s)*; Queens and Ladies change more often, and keep some portion of their original identities (Mab& Titania still recall theirs).
They constructed their own Mantles, invested perhaps a High Priestess, or some nymph, as the very-first Queens, and their daughters as the very-first Ladies.
I suspect this is (like Odin's action) a method chosen specifically to enable them to continue acting within the mortal realm.
(*) n.b. the Mothers -- those most-extreme & most-primal expressions of the ever-warring Summer & Winter -- cohabit the same space in the deep Nevernever. I think, at the Mother level, the differences are really rather minor... Maybe only even existing as a difference from the limited mortal POV (how's that for a WAG?).
I doubt this, the Roman/Greek gods were the Defenders of the Outer Gates before Winter. They obviously had problems maintaining this position but were given the option of relinquishing power into the Mantles to allow others to step up and take their place. This would have allowed them to either continue in the mortal world in a powered down mode or to maintain their power like Hades (and the Mothers) and retreat permanently to the NeverNever, not putting power into the Mantles. The fact that Hades was the custodian of the White Gods superweapons would appear to support this position.
The wrestling book probably contains exposition on this point, as you would expect the Roman /Greek Gods so portrayed to be in the powered down mode, like powerful Fae ageless but with no susceptibility to iron but perhaps NOT immortal in the sense that they can come back from near total obliteration as the Erl King and Odin (due to the Kringle Mantle) we’re able to. Pretty much every immortal we have seen is tied to either Summer or Winter, the exception is the Naagloshii and well we know they are all destined for Demonreach. Puck’s power level would suggest he is immortal (he is at Lea’s level) and he is Wildfae, so doubtless Demonreach awaits him as well when Harry next meets him in a hundred years.
The original Archive could have been for example a powered down Muse, like Clio (Muse of history) the excess power poured into the Mantles and rendered mortal but a powerful practitioner, with a limited Intellectus.
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Milwaukee would be a simple train journey for the Archive as presumably she is subject to the normal mortal wizard fudge factors ruling out air travel, and her neutrality ruling out travel via the Ways largely controlled by Winter and Summer. Nick would have taken this into account.
I have doubts about both of those, actually.
The tech interference is said to arise from mortals being inherently, internally conflicted. Ivy might not have the detachment thing going as well the ideal paradigm of an Archive host - who basically wouldn't even have a personality - but she's still way more detached than most wizards, meaning less to be conflicted about. She probably would have been a problem for airplanes *after* being captured and tortured, but not necessarily before.
As for the Ways, it's possible her neutral-by-nature status means neither Winter not Summer would take it as an insult to their nation if she passed through the Ways on their territory. She might not have the Queens' guarantee of safe passage like the Council had from Mab, prohibiting any predatory fairy creatures from trying her, but it's not like mook-tier predators are a real threat to her.