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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: g33k on June 10, 2022, 10:27:30 PM
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Raith is lust
Malvora fear
Skavis despair
Are there other Houses in the White Court? Wrath/hatred seems a "gimme," an easy emotion to whamp-ify. Greed, maybe?
Or were there such Houses, but they lost whampy-wars and are no longer known?
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I don't know about others but filling someone you're trying to feed on with Wrath of all things seems like a horrible idea.
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You could fill them with joy though, and feed off of that.
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I don't know about others but filling someone you're trying to feed on with Wrath of all things seems like a horrible idea.
I would see those Whamps as more like Iago -- the "buddy" who's egging-on.
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You could fill them with joy though, and feed off of that.
AFAIK, all Hunger Demons feed off negative emotions.
I think some sort of variant (that could feed off positive emotions) would be a very cool thing... but that's kind of the mortal schtick. We are uplifted and empowered by our love, by our joy.
We mortals are those "positive emotion" whamps!
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AFAIK, all Hunger Demons feed off negative emotions.
I think some sort of variant (that could feed off positive emotions) would be a very cool thing... but that's kind of the mortal schtick. We are uplifted and empowered by our love, by our joy.
We mortals are those "positive emotion" whamps!
Since when is good old fashioned "lust" a negative emotion? ??? Nothing negative about it, all of the Raith victims die with a smile on their faces.. ::)
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Raith is lust
Malvora fear
Skavis despair
Are there other Houses in the White Court? Wrath/hatred seems a "gimme," an easy emotion to whamp-ify. Greed, maybe?
Or were there such Houses, but they lost whanppy-wars and are no longer known?
There is a House in Paranet Papers that feeds on Wrath. The Marinos. They're based in South America poses as a Crime Family. They're one of the factions scrambling for power after the Red Court fell.
The dead man had clearly beaten her
badly and she had fed on his wrath. The rage of
his beating had only strengthened her, fueled the
demon within her
Wait, she feeds on rage? I know we speculated that there might be WCVs out
there who ate anger, but Alejandra’s actually
found an entire secret family of them?
Maybe. She claims the Marinos are
unaffiliated so, yeah, it’s possible
they’re wrath-eaters. It’s also possible
they feed on fear like a certain family
we already know about, and Alejandra
just misinterpreted what she saw.
Honestly, it’s hard for me to imagine that Lara
Raith doesn’t know about these guys. If they’re
operating down here, I ’d bet it’s under her
watchful eye, if not by her explicit permission.
A family of White Court vampires lives
here—the Marino family, natives all—nearly ten
vampires, though they keep their nature a secret
from both mortals and supernaturals alike, and
they are not affiliated with the White Court
proper. I stumbled upon their secret when I first
met Eva and realized what she was.
We have been observing them since the
Red Court’s destruction, and since that time
numerous White Court vampires have visited
the Marinos, but never for more than a few days
at a time, and never in groups larger than two at
a time. If the White Court is up to something,
it seems the Marino family is involved in it.
Perhaps they are preparing to take their place in
the White Court
They've got a corrupt politician in their pocket as well, there's an entire page on him but he thinks they're just a crime family.
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https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8375964/1/Houses-of-the-White-Court-Dresden-Files
There was a fanfiction speculating on that a while back.
APG
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Since when is good old fashioned "lust" a negative emotion? ...
It doesn't have to be, of course.
But it's much easier to slide down that ramp to a really bad place, than if it were genuine love.
(n.b. many people mistake mixes of [other things]+lust for "love," when it isn't)
And the Whamps are past masters of nudging people onto that slide.
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The Beige Court, they feed of boredom and frustration and are headed by house Colin Robinson.
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The Beige Court, they feed of boredom and frustration and are headed by house Colin Robinson.
<nods>
Yep, that's House YOLO.
After the whamp devours all the boredom, the vic goes out and does something so "adventurous" it veers into suicidality...
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AFAIK, all Hunger Demons feed off negative emotions.
I think some sort of variant (that could feed off positive emotions) would be a very cool thing... but that's kind of the mortal schtick. We are uplifted and empowered by our love, by our joy.
I think there was a WOJ that it might be possible for a whamp to feed on positive emotions, but they'd probably start to get 'sparkly'.
Their dietary preferences aren't ingrained, after all - Madrigal proved that by feeding on fear instead of lust. Presumably if they're willing to put enough effort and trial & error into it, other emotions beyond the big three negative ones are possible, with positive ones likely being much more difficult to change their attunement to.
It's probably not an accident that the big three are roughly opposite to the three virtues embodied in the Swords, though.
Lust vs Love.
Despair vs Faith.
Fear vs Hope.
I wonder if Skavis and Malvora tend to lose a lot more of their youth to never activating their powers than Raiths do ... I'd say a majority of people don't have their first sexual experience as true love (as much as they might be confused about that at the time), but blundering into scaring someone to death or tweaking them into despair enough to commit suicide would be rarer.
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My theory is that Harry doesn’t cure Thomas, he instead inverts his demon. Thomas becomes an Erus (the Etruscan Eros) he can feed on love instead, and is repelled by Lust. Harry has explained love as creative (it’s how Bonea came about) rather than destructive, so no more life force consumption.That makes him a very suitable candidate for Amorrachius. My theory is that the White Court were originally created by an inversion of Erus bloodline, perhaps by Drakul (it explains the hate between the White and Black Courts)
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My theory is that Harry doesn’t cure Thomas, he instead inverts his demon. Thomas becomes an Erus (the Etruscan Eros) he can feed on love instead, and is repelled by Lust. Harry has explained love as creative (it’s how Bonea came about) rather than destructive, so no more life force consumption.That makes him a very suitable candidate for Amorrachius. My theory is that the White Court were originally created by an inversion of Erus bloodline, perhaps by Drakul (it explains the hate between the White and Black Courts)
Oh, hey now... that ties a lot of threads together!
That's some first-rate WAGging, that is!
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My theory is that Harry doesn’t cure Thomas, he instead inverts his demon. Thomas becomes an Erus (the Etruscan Eros) he can feed on love instead, and is repelled by Lust. Harry has explained love as creative (it’s how Bonea came about) rather than destructive, so no more life force consumption.That makes him a very suitable candidate for Amorrachius. My theory is that the White Court were originally created by an inversion of Erus bloodline, perhaps by Drakul (it explains the hate between the White and Black Courts)
Nice!
But pessimist me can't help to think: a vamp feeding on love must go hungry very often, because true love is a lot harder to find than lust, I believe.
Except if you take for example the love between family members into account.
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My theory is that Harry doesn’t cure Thomas, he instead inverts his demon. Thomas becomes an Erus (the Etruscan Eros) he can feed on love instead, and is repelled by Lust. Harry has explained love as creative (it’s how Bonea came about) rather than destructive, so no more life force consumption.That makes him a very suitable candidate for Amorrachius. My theory is that the White Court were originally created by an inversion of Erus bloodline, perhaps by Drakul (it explains the hate between the White and Black Courts)
How would it work? Does the whamp date the human for a few months, invest enough in the relationship to make the human fall in love and then feed on them for the rest of their lives? Sounds like marriage to me. Or does it high-jack an existing relationship and join in for a threesome? That scenario is more suitable for a romance/erotica novel. :D
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Thomas is in true love with Justine which is a source of sustenance. As an Erus he would be able to match up true love and get it to blossom, the inverse of the come hither Whamps currently have.
He walks into a bar and instead of provoking lust and licentiousness in the crowd towards him, strangers suddenly seek each other out mysteriously drawn to each other and find that they are indeed soulmates when they would never have sought each other out otherwise, creating a bond with plenty of extra energy for Thomas to feed upon.
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Too fake. It can't be true love, because it was induced by a 3rd party mentally pushing couples together.
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... Or does it high-jack an existing relationship and join in for a threesome? That scenario is more suitable for a romance/erotica novel. :D
Harry Dresden as written by LKH?
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... He walks into a bar and instead of provoking lust and licentiousness in the crowd towards him, strangers suddenly seek each other out mysteriously drawn to each other and find that they are indeed soulmates when they would never have sought each other out otherwise, creating a bond with plenty of extra energy for Thomas to feed upon.
Too fake. It can't be true love, because it was induced by a 3rd party mentally pushing couples together.
I think having a bar that just happens to be full of unwitting soulmate-pairs-to-be is indeed "too fake," but the basic idea seems like it could work. It's not that it would "push people together," just spot the soulmate-potential (just as a "normal" Whamp can simply feel someone's horniness) and reduce inhibitions/reserve between the two (or more than two; let's not be poly-phobic! ;) )
Thomas as matchmaker (cue Fiddler on the Roof, or the opening scenes of Mulan).
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It's probably not an accident that the big three are roughly opposite to the three virtues embodied in the Swords, though.
Lust vs Love.
Despair vs Faith.
Fear vs Hope.
Hmm. That is an interesting point.
I wonder if it implies something about the Swords' function, or about the whamp origins, or somesuch...
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Too fake. It can't be true love, because it was induced by a 3rd party mentally pushing couples together.
Nope making genuine connections not forcing them. The Whamps can detect prey, those senses may have senses may have evolved for other purposes.
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I agree that it is no coincidence that:
Love (Ammorachius) v. Lust (Raith)
Hope (Esperachius) v. Despair (Skavis)
Faith (Fidelachius) v. Fear (Malvora)
And, that the White Court "oath" is "Empty Night." I also agree that Ammorachius, which has gone unclaimed thus far, will be key for Thomas.
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I believe the swords may be a key for each of the Houses, to correct whatever created the Whamps in the first place.
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Thought I had, unsupported by anything. Each group of Vampires we are aware of seem to be ever more degenerate forms of the Whites. So you have Whites, Reds and Blacks. Whites are the perfect form. Reds are a more degenerate form and Blacks are the most degenerate form, the true undead. The Asian branch may be at the top of the Pyramid or below the Whites, since we haven't seen them.
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Unfortunately Jim has said he is not going to feature the Jade Court. Which is annoying. It means no new data on them, ever.
My theory is that all of them are a degenerate form of something else, the Black Court a failed attempt to create something like Einenjharen, the White Court a degenerate form of the Etruscan Gods Erus descendants, the Red Court not sure, they masquerade as gods but aren’t, perhaps servitors created to serve the Mayan Gods, like the IX? The Gods went extinct or are in Demonreach and like the gods they aped so are they.
In fact Demonreach is the most likely option. They would have been immortal and difficult to kill, if they retreated to the NeverNever, they would likely have been unhappy about the Reds hijacking their belief system, and made a fuss.
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Unfortunately Jim has said he is not going to feature the Jade Court. Which is annoying. It means no new data on them, ever.
Actually, it means Jim is free to spill all the Jade Court beans, and won't feel like lying to keep narrative secrets.
My own bet is that they are more or less a "throwaway" element, an insignificant sliver of backstory/color that he never developed & never plans to. All it would take is the right question at a Q&A event or online AMA.
(OTOH, Butters was supposed to be a minor bit of comic relief, so never say never. If Jim has a lightning-strike of "OMG! the Jade Court could be this, and it'd be soooo cool!" then we may yet see them...)
... the Red Court not sure, they masquerade as gods but aren’t, perhaps servitors created to serve the Mayan Gods, like the IX?...
The Mayan gods were fed-upon by the "Lords of Outer Night" & had their powers stripped away to power-up the Rampire LOONs. I *think* they may have been kept as food-sources by the LOONs; if so, they may have been slowly recovering since the battle at Chichen Itza. I expect they'll be coming back angry; but I'm hoping they'll come back as a surprise-ally for Dresden, since he "rescued" them.
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... Each group of Vampires we are aware of seem to be ever more degenerate forms of the Whites. So you have Whites, Reds and Blacks. Whites are the perfect form. Reds are a more degenerate form and Blacks are the most degenerate form, the true undead. The Asian branch may be at the top of the Pyramid or below the Whites, since we haven't seen them.
I'm pretty sure we have WoJ that the "design" of the Vamps comes from a different perspective.
Jim was trying to decide how to make his Vampires different from all the same-y vamps in all the same-y urban fantasy stories (but no sparkles).
He come up with the idea of splitting their "powers" into the different Courts, different "types" of vamp.
- Black were the horrific undead monsters very Stoker.
- Red were monstrous "flesh mask" monsters, a la "From Dusk Till Dawn."
- Whites were the erotic/seductive vampires so common in modern pop culture.
Honestly, I think the Jade Court was an afterthought, a throwaway line Jim for a bit of setting-fluff that Jim never really thought about, nor planned to ever develop.
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Honestly, I think the Jade Court was an afterthought, a throwaway line Jim for a bit of setting-fluff that Jim never really thought about, nor planned to ever develop.
And then they got brought up in literally every Q&A or interview he ever did for all of time...
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And then they got brought up in literally every Q&A or interview he ever did for all of time...
Yes Jim may have regretted it. Just a bit. It’s asked in almost every interview or Q&A to the extent the fans are almost trolling him about it, but it wastes an entire question when Jim could be trolling us.
I think he included them like he ran the gamut on werewolves in Fool Moon. He wanted to cover every type of vampire and the Jade Court is the hopping chi stealing variant.
There is an actual Chinese Restaurant in Chicago called the Jade Court. Jim should have Harry and Lara go there on date night in NEXT BOOK and not realise it’s actually the listening post for the Jade Court in Chicago until they receive some sinister and very specific fortune cookies at the end of the meal leaving them and the reader wondering. Jim is going to have to write such a scene, as a pay-off for the negotiations line in The Law, so why not use it as a pay-off for the Jade Court? They are watching but not getting involved.
It would stop this question being asked.
Probably.