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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: morriswalters on February 09, 2022, 03:32:53 AM
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Was Malcolm a Scion of an Angel? Eb appears to have seen him under the sight.
"She met your father. A man. A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources. But a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen. I believe that she fell in love with him.
That is a weird description, like something you would say about a saint. Malcolm is also the only character that speaks to Harry from the afterlife.
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Was Malcolm a Scion of an Angel? Eb appears to have seen him under the sight.That is a weird description, like something you would say about a saint. Malcolm is also the only character that speaks to Harry from the afterlife.
I've often thought that, or more in the line of Sir Galahad, the purest and noblest knight of the round table.
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I believe that Malcolm may have been like Father Forthill, effectively a saint without the formal canonisation, just doing good and making the world a better place in a 1,000 small ways each day, making him very rare. This would suggest that upon his death he also received the treatment being reserved for the good father, in shepherding his soul, effectively in D&D catergories a cleric (opposed to the Knights who are Paladins, although Michael a retired Paladin is now also a cleric, and Butters was a cleric who became a Paladin.)
We actually know nothing of Malcolm’s faith, only his deeds and the opinions of those who knew him. But if Malcom was a Saint then he was definitely marked for special attention by the same forces who were after Father Forthill’s soul, quite apart from his relationship with Margaret and Harry.
We know Lord Raith was after Margaret, and that several groups within and without the White Council were after Harry as a Starborn, but someone else was probably after Malcolm, and they may have allied with others to achieve both their ends.
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Malcolm is the reason Harry won't be and isn't like the other starborn we have seen. It is repeatedly stated, he has his father's heart.
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Harry had his father first and foremost, Christmas Eve reminded Harry of this when he needed this most, at his lowest ebb. It is Malcolm I believe who prevented Harry from being a Destroyer, initially, re-inforced in Grave Peril by Michael, and later on at various times by Shiro, Sanya, Murphy, Butters and Father Forthill. Each of those people reminded him of his father, not physically, but because of what they are.
Mirror Harry diverged from Harry Prime in Grave Peril, he almost certainly broke with Michael, the Knights, Murphy and Father Forthill then, which is why that universe is doomed.
I wonder if Harry had had the opportunity to soulgaze Malcolm or view him through his third eye, what he would have seen? I like to think his father with a dove on each shoulder each flapping a single wing in perfect symmetry.
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I also think the whole point is that Margaret didn't go along with the Council's plan to create their own starborn weapon until she met Malcolm. This was her way of foiling their plans, Harry just didn't inherit his goodness, he also inherited his independence.
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I think Margaret was the source of the plan. In Changes Butcher has Eb tell Harry about a meeting with Raith, Arianna Ortega, Himself and Margaret.
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I think Margaret was the source of the plan. In Changes Butcher has Eb tell Harry about a meeting with Raith, Arianna Ortega, Himself and Margaret.
Yes, but it isn't until she meets and hooks up with Malcolm that she makes her decision, which is after the above meeting in Changes. Which makes Eb's violent reaction to learning about Thomas in Peace Talks kind of weird.. Had he no clue at all that Margaret and Raith might have been sleeping together?
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Everybody assumes she met Malcolm after the meeting, when the safer assumption might be to assume she met him as a result of the meeting. Holding open the possibility that meeting him was what broke her free of Raith. I've always thought the possibility that she was pregnant when she ran was high. By the time she became pregnant she had fallen in love with Malcolm. Since she knew when the baby had to be born to become a Starborn she entered Faerie and manipulated her time there to make sure the pregnancy ended at the right moment.
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Everybody assumes she met Malcolm after the meeting, when the safer assumption might be to assume she met him as a result of the meeting. Holding open the possibility that meeting him was what broke her free of Raith. I've always thought the possibility that she was pregnant when she ran was high. By the time she became pregnant she had fallen in love with Malcolm. Since she knew when the baby had to be born to become a Starborn she entered Faerie and manipulated her time there to make sure the pregnancy ended at the right moment.
I have to go back and read the passage, but what I remember is Eb had dinner with Raith and Margaret from time to time.. Something a bit more casual than business, observing how Eb and Margaret interacted tipped Arianna off that they were father and daughter. Why would Margaret have met Malcolm as a result of having dinner with her father, Lord Raith, and Arianna?
Lash in White Night tells Harry that his mother found the strength to leave Lord Raith for a reason.
That reason was Malcolm, she had fallen in love with him and because of his goodness decided to conceive a star child with him. In the soul gaze with Thomas when he talks Margaret, she says she is sorry for the burden she and Malcolm placed on him. In his dream conversation with Malcolm I believe it was in Dead Beat, Malcolm says pretty much the same thing, but wouldn't elaborate on what he meant. No, it was a pre-planned pregnancy and Malcolm was very much in on the pre-planning.
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If Malcolm wasn't a Saint or an Angel before he is now. He shows up in Dead Beat during Harry's dream 'because the otherside cheated' i.e. Lasciel/Lash started appearing to Harry both herself and as Sheila. It's classic Uriel counter espionage against the Denarians. Why waste power when one small act of kindness can guide Harry through.
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Another example is the Coffee mug in Christmas Eve, again a subtle nudge of memory by Harry’s backers.
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You don't die and become an Angel and Saints are created by the Vatican. I suppose it could be a response to Lash. I'll have to consider it.
Malcolm never speaks to Harry in the Christmas story.
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You don't die and become an Angel and Saints are created by the Vatican. I suppose it could be a response to Lash. I'll have to consider it.
Malcolm never speaks to Harry in the Christmas story.
Right but my point and theory is Malcolm works for Uriel possibly in the same department as Jack Murphy and Sir Stuart. Shade remnants whose souls aren't quite done.
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Right but my point and theory is Malcolm works for Uriel possibly in the same department as Jack Murphy and Sir Stuart. Shade remnants whose souls aren't quite done.
I doubt it because Malcolm isn't a suicide, unless Margaret also works for him and they can be together.
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Uriel strikes me as the White God’s go to guy, so he has his fingers in lots of pies.
The Knights, Starborn, afterlife enforcement - we have only seen the tip of the iceberg.
Malcolm is most likely a special soul, and shepherded by the Angel of death because his good work attracted the oppositions special attention, most souls do not get this attention. Because of who he was he volunteered to work after he was due for his reward in heaven, he wasn’t conscripted to work his way into heaven like Jack Murphy, whose deal came about because his suicide was prompted by external supernatural forces.
In a similar fashion Murphy and Hendricks were conscripted by Odin, they will eventually go to heaven/Valhalla etc. Murphy as a former Knight was a sure thing for Heaven, Hendricks really benefits from this deal, that’s not where you would expect him to go.
Jack Murphy’s case is more analogous to Hendricks than Malcolm’s.
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You cannot think of Malcolm alone though without thinking of his wife, Margaret. She redeemed herself, he is the reason for her redemption. Either they are working together as a pair for Uriel, or they are in Heaven as a pair.
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Right but my point and theory is Malcolm works for Uriel possibly in the same department as Jack Murphy and Sir Stuart. Shade remnants whose souls aren't quite done.
That was flip on my part so I apologize. Still the point is that no one else in the text speaks to anybody who has gone to Heaven. I get it that Harry is a Chosen One, and as such, is special. But I don't understand why Uriel would balance anything that Lash does. Harry knows of or at least suspects her presence since he has the sigil and is concealing the fact that he picked up the coin.
Currently my thinking on the Jabberwock is that it is indicative of Lucifer or the Outsiders.
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That was flip on my part so I apologize. Still the point is that no one else in the text speaks to anybody who has gone to Heaven. I get it that Harry is a Chosen One, and as such, is special. But I don't understand why Uriel would balance anything that Lash does. Harry knows of or at least suspects her presence since he has the sigil and is concealing the fact that he picked up the coin.
Currently my thinking on the Jabberwock is that it is indicative of Lucifer or the Outsiders.
Harry no longer has the sigil, that disappeared when he rejected Lash's last offer that he pick up the coin, then he dug it up and Father Forthill took it. Harry mentions a "white scar" where the sigil mark used to be. Harry stupidly perhaps not believing how dangerous they were once touched, picked up the coin to save little Harry, though it would have been better to pick up little Harry to save him from touching the coin. Then he buried the coin and put a magic circle around it thinking that would keep it's affects contained. It didn't he still got the shadow of Lasciel in his head. Having said all of that, picking up the coin isn't the same as accepting the coin. Harry never accepted the coin even though the shadow of Lasciel put him under tremendous pressure. He instead transformed the shadow into Lash because of her love for him. That is so rare that it really had never happened before.. That is why he was gifted with Soul Fire.
Perhaps not speak of anyone going to Heaven, but Uriel at the end of Ghost Story hints at it. Supposedly he was giving Harry a choice, to work for him like Captain Murphy because he wasn't prepared for what comes next. Harry asks him what he means by that exactly?
Uriel answers; page454
"The part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."
I would think that judgement comes first, and I assume that however that comes out, it is Heaven or Hell from there.
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I agree with those who said Malcolm was special because he was good, not because he had angelic blood or anything like that. He "simply" was good, like Father Forthill. And I think his good deeds (including Margaret's redemption) granted him a blessed afterlife, which includes some rewards, like having the chance of seeing Harry. By the way, I think Margaret herself got some kind of reward too. In one of the first books Harry feels a woman with him, who helped him when he was about to do something wrong, and that feeling increases when he touches his pendant. I think she was granted some chance to watch over him.
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@Mira
As of Dead Beat when the conversation with Malcolm takes places he still has the sigil doesn't he? His hand is burnt in Blood Rites.I agree with those who said Malcolm was special because he was good, not because he had angelic blood or anything like that. He "simply" was good, like Father Forthill. And I think his good deeds (including Margaret's redemption) granted him a blessed afterlife, which includes some rewards, like having the chance of seeing Harry. By the way, I think Margaret herself got some kind of reward too. In one of the first books Harry feels a woman with him, who helped him when he was about to do something wrong, and that feeling increases when he touches his pendant. I think she was granted some chance to watch over him.
That's certainly one way to read it. I'm just investigating other ideas. Harry is 6'9". That's at the high end of normal. Nephilim can be giants, so there is that to consider. The thought is that whatever Margaret intended to do that it wasn't just to create a Starborn. Unless Butcher has some magic up his sleeve a Starborn to this point is just somebody born at a certain time. She could have made one with some random specimen of males. She was also enthralled by Raith so something had to help her break away. So three things. Harry's size, she broke from Raith's control, and Harry gets to talk to the dead in the afterlife. To me this suggests something, although I'm not sure what. There is a lot going on in Dead Beat off the stage either before or just after Cowl attempts the Darkhallow. And IMO it's all related.
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Harry may have Bigfoot blood rather than Angel blood, Dresden means People of the Forest after all, and he does get on well with River Shoulders, and given Eb is such a shrimp, he gets that from Malcolm’s side of the family several generations back, it expressed in his height when it mixed with Margaret’s wizard blood. Thomas is much shorter, suggesting the difference in their heights is due to their different fathers.
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Not necessarily. I don't remember the physical descriptions of Margaret and Malcolm. Perhaps they both were tall. Margaret's mother could have been tall, balancing Eb's short height (Argh, it always bothers me that, as far as we know, Harry never asked his grandfather anything about his grandmother. And yes, I've read the theories that it's Lea). The genetics of height are not so simple.
It is true that Thomas' height can be a hint that Harry inherited his tallness from Malcolm's size (Do you remember if Raith is tall?)
I always understood that every magical being in the Dresdenverse sees Harry as a starborn and a powerful wizard, but nothing else. I don't remember any of them hinting there is something especial in Harry's lineage (besides magic!)
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Both his father and mother were tall. Harry isn't out of human range, it's just that Butcher has been pointing at it more and more as time goes on. Shrug/
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Not necessarily, if Bigfoot are Gigantopithecus then a relict population may have interbred with humanity as occurred with Neanderthal man. We know this is the case in the Dresdenverse because of Irwin, a noticeable percentage of humanity may therefore have Bigfoot genes, from generations back, but most are recessive. Magical ability be one set of genetic recessives from Bigfoot heritage, and height another.
Harry was originally a shrimp like Eb, he got a growth spurt about the time his magical ability started to manifest, perhaps the interaction of two sets of Bigfoot genes normally recessive, height from Malcolm and magic from Margaret.
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Not necessarily. I don't remember the physical descriptions of Margaret and Malcolm. Perhaps they both were tall. Margaret's mother could have been tall, balancing Eb's short height (Argh, it always bothers me that, as far as we know, Harry never asked his grandfather anything about his grandmother. And yes, I've read the theories that it's Lea). The genetics of height are not so simple.
It is true that Thomas' height can be a hint that Harry inherited his tallness from Malcolm's size (Do you remember if Raith is tall?)
I always understood that every magical being in the Dresdenverse sees Harry as a starborn and a powerful wizard, but nothing else. I don't remember any of them hinting there is something especial in Harry's lineage (besides magic!)
Agreed, plus we don't know how tall uncles and aunts, grand parents were. Harry's grandmother may have been a tall woman or came from a tall family. We know nothing about her. My parents and grand parents were average height, between five and six feet tall, my mother's uncles on her father's side were big men, well over six feet tall, my brothers grew to be 6'6 and 6'7 respectively, though I am considered tall at 5'7 I am closer to average in height. So we don't know what the gene mix is for Harry, as far as where he gets his height from.
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As of Dead Beat when the conversation with Malcolm takes places he still has the sigil doesn't he? His hand is burnt in Blood Rites.
Yes, but he got that because he picked up the coin, but he never accepted the coin. As in fully embracing it, taking it into himself, thus becoming a Denarian. The coin is physically taken into the body in some way, remember when a Denarian dies the coin sort of falls from the body. Or as in Sanya's case thrown away in rejection. One of Lash's last acts in White Night was to save Harry by trying to get him to accept the coin,when Harry refused it, she sacrificed herself for him.. Once she did that the sigil was gone from his hand. Lasciel had marked Harry, because he touched her coin, but she never got him. With the death of Lash the mark went away. Page 395 White Night
I'd worn a mark for years--an unblemished patch of skin amidst all the burn scars, in the perfect shape of the angelic sigil that was Lasciel's name. The mark was gone. In it's place was just an irregular patch of unburned skin.
That's the deal with Uriel, he rewarded Harry for that with Soul Fire, to replace Hell Fire. When Lasciel cheated by trying to influence Harry free will to commit suicide, Uriel could step in with his seven words.. I think he could have stepped in sooner than he did, but he felt that Harry needed to learn a thing or two as he did in Ghost Story.
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Agreed, plus we don't know how tall uncles and aunts, grand parents were. Harry's grandmother may have been a tall woman or came from a tall family. We know nothing about her. My parents and grand parents were average height, between five and six feet tall, my mother's uncles on her father's side were big men, well over six feet tall, my brothers grew to be 6'6 and 6'7 respectively, though I am considered tall at 5'7 I am closer to average in height. So we don't know what the gene mix is for Harry, as far as where he gets his height from.
Thats genetics, environment also plays a factor, average modern heights are generally achieved because of good nutrition. Eb may just have been poorly fed as a child. Scotland still has a bad reputation for nutritional eating. Victorians are shrimps.
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Thats genetics, environment also plays a factor, average modern heights are generally achieved because of good nutrition. Eb may just have been poorly fed as a child. Scotland still has a bad reputation for nutritional eating. Victorians are shrimps.
I was going to add nutrition but decided that would perhaps complicate what I was trying to get across. Yes, if you ever visit or have visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art, they have rooms reconstructed from the the 16th, 17th, and 18th Centuries, I found my head nearly touching the ceiling at 5'7. Eb was born somewhere in the late 17th Century, going by the fact that he participated in the French/Indian Wars that I think were in the 1750s. The average height for Americans in that time was 5'10 inches however those in Europe averages were about two inches shorter, this is according to the Livestrong website, contributing factors for the differences were both nutrition and disease. Eb was born in Scotland. Of course there are exceptions in any population.
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True, nutrition is a very important factor, and, as Mira says, it complicates things. In summary, I do not think we can extract a valid conclusion about the reason for Harry's height.
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in absentia luci, tenebrae vincunt
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Veritas :)
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Jim was probably told by his lecturer that physically out of norm characters should be avoided as this could lead to them becoming caricatures rather than characters, he dug his heels in and created Harry and Murphy just to spite her. Remember the photo placed in Murphy’s Grave.
It’s just like he was told to avoid talking heads, characters whose sole purpose was exposition. So he created Bob.
We can talk genetics and nutrition and other factors, Harry’s size is most likely due to Jim being a perverse bugger making an extended joke at the expense of his lecturer which backfired upon him in a most spectacular fashion.
And continues to do so. Good luck with casting in live action, he’ll probably end up with Tom Cruise playing Harry.
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True, nutrition is a very important factor, and, as Mira says, it complicates things. In summary, I do not think we can extract a valid conclusion about the reason for Harry's height.
Agreed, without more information about both his paternal and maternal family trees it is hard to come to any valid conclusion.
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Not necessarily. I don't remember the physical descriptions of Margaret and Malcolm. Perhaps they both were tall.
IIRC at one point Margaret's spirit looks at Harry and says he is tall like his father.
But you can get a sport - neither of Wilt Chamberlain's parents was even 6 feet tall, he was over 7. Michael Jordan has 4 brothers - none are even six feet, Michael is 6'6". Or, if you want someone close to Harry's size, look at the pop group the Beach Boys. Average sized guys. Brothers and a cousin. And a cousin is 6'8" Kevin Love, an NBA player.
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Was Malcolm a Scion of an Angel? Eb appears to have seen him under the sight.That is a weird description, like something you would say about a saint. Malcolm is also the only character that speaks to Harry from the afterlife.
Doesn't seen to say he's a scion. Says a man. Could Eb have soulgazed him, to check him out for his daughter?
I wonder if when he went to Judgement, if a comment could have been made about what a good man he had been, and due a reward... and he asked the boon of being able to watch over the son he left orphaned. From the way they speak of him, the like of he and Forthill and Michael will not fear Judgement. I think Michael said something on those lines in Skin Game
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Eb did soul gaze Malcolm, in Blood Rite he told Harry that he was the finest or best soul he'd ever seen. With plain old vanilla mortals that is just a saying, but Eb is a wizard so it takes on a different meaning. If Malcolm was a scion of something else, Eb would know.
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Eb hasn’t Soul-gazed Michael, Father Forthill or other Knights, who are exemplars of the human condition, most likely other wizards who generally are not.
Eb has probably soul-gazed Listens to the Wind though, which would set a high standard for Malcolm. He soul-gazed Harry, so telling Harry that Malcolm was the best is an unintentional dig at Harry. Bad Eb.
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Eb hasn’t Soul-gazed Michael, Father Forthill or other Knights, who are exemplars of the human condition, most likely other wizards who generally are not.
Eb has probably soul-gazed Listens to the Wind though, which would set a high standard for Malcolm. He soul-gazed Harry, so telling Harry that Malcolm was the best is an unintentional dig at Harry. Bad Eb.
Why? It's no dig at Harry to tell him his father was a good man. I imagine over his couple or more centuries of life, Eb has soul gazed a lot of souls, it is no dig at Harry to tell him his father ranks at the top. Besides Eb isn't going to tell Harry everything he knows about him from their soul gaze, remember he managed to hide the fact that he was Harry's grandfather.
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He didn’t even try the weak pretence of “present company excepted”. Wizard’s have terrible social skills, it’s not just Harry.
Eb hadn’t ever met Harry other than in his capacity of his Master/mentor, nothing really to hide, and that is Eb’s fault due to his theory of childraising. They had no other connection. Bad Eb.
He really only started his grandfatherly relationship with Harry after the soulgaze, probably when he realised he wouldn’t have to execute him.
I suspect during Next Book the existence of Maggie becomes widely known amongst the Supernatural community, and Harry basically says:-
“Come for me, not my daughter if you have a beef with me.”
“The Red Court went for my daughter, kidnapped and brutalised her. I rendered them extinct. All of them.”
“Nicodemus Archelone threatened my daughter, I gave him the very worst day in his very long life, and I haven’t finished with him yet and I WILL kill him, because I can.”
“The Titan tried to kill my daughter. Ask her how that worked out. If you can find her. Please try to find her.”
“Mortal or immortal, threaten my daughter and it’s the last thing you will ever do.”
His views on the subject are diametrically opposed to Eb’s, so no wonder it didn’t come out in the soulgaze.
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He didn’t even try the weak pretence of “present company excepted”. Wizard’s have terrible social skills, it’s not just Harry.
Eb hadn’t ever met Harry other than in his capacity of his Master/mentor, nothing really to hide, and that is Eb’s fault due to his theory of childraising. They had no other connection. Bad Eb.
He really only started his grandfatherly relationship with Harry after the soulgaze, probably when he realised he wouldn’t have to execute him.
I suspect during Next Book the existence of Maggie becomes widely known amongst the Supernatural community, and Harry basically says:-
“Come for me, not my daughter if you have a beef with me.”
“The Red Court went for my daughter, kidnapped and brutalised her. I rendered them extinct. All of them.”
“Nicodemus Archelone threatened my daughter, I gave him the very worst day in his very long life, and I haven’t finished with him yet and I WILL kill him, because I can.”
“The Titan tried to kill my daughter. Ask her how that worked out. If you can find her. Please try to find her.”
“Mortal or immortal, threaten my daughter and it’s the last thing you will ever do.”
His views on the subject are diametrically opposed to Eb’s, so no wonder it didn’t come out in the soulgaze.
None of that has any baring on Eb's opinion of Malcolm's soul, nor does is it any reflection of what Eb thought of his grandson at the time of their soul gaze. Harry was a sixteen year old alienated and angry kid who had just killed his adopted father and nearly lost his head for it. At the time of the soul gaze Eb was under orders to kill his grandson if he saw anything overly off. He didn't.. Now I guess it depends on how one compares the souls of teenagers driven by hormones to adults who are driven by other factors. So it is really hard to make any comparison in my opinion. I think Harry was happy to hear that Eb's opinion of his father mirrors his own memories as a six year old of his beloved father. I don't see Harry or anyone else in his place upon hearing this, demanding, "well,what about me? You soul gazed me too.." Nor has Harry ever thought of himself as some kind of saint, so the idea that Eb might think higher of his father than himself, wouldn't bother him. Also I might add, everyone who knows Harry and knew his father says he has his father's good heart, that should be enough for any good son.
Eb has probably soul-gazed Listens to the Wind though, which would set a high standard for Malcolm. He soul-gazed Harry, so telling Harry that Malcolm was the best is an unintentional dig at Harry. Bad Eb.
All that means of all the people Eb has soul gazed up until that point, and I imagine that is a lot of people. It doesn't mean Malcolm's soul was the best out there, only of those Eb has ever soul gazed. Harry wouldn't see it as a dig at him, he knows the state his soul was in when they had their gaze. He also doesn't see it as some kind of goodness contest between Malcolm and himself.
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Sanity check. Saying somebody has a good soul is not the same as saying that they were soul gazed. Eb may have looked at him with his sight or he may just have observed Malcolm as he raised Harry. If Malcolm was soul gazed by Eb then Malcolm would have seen Eb. Nothing in the text mentioned that Malcolm had ever met Eb.
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Sanity check. Saying somebody has a good soul is not the same as saying that they were soul gazed. Eb may have looked at him with his sight or he may just have observed Malcolm as he raised Harry. If Malcolm was soul gazed by Eb then Malcolm would have seen Eb. Nothing in the text mentioned that Malcolm had ever met Eb.
Except Eb seemed to know Malcolm pretty well.. page 299 Blood Rites paperback
"She met your father. A man. A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources. But a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen.
Confirmed by Eb in this passage, Malcolm was an ordinary human, not a scion of an angel or anything else. Also while if you want to split hairs, one could claim that when Eb says, a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen. He means he saw him and thought he was a good man, but really? I think when Eb says, "a good soul, like few I have ever seen. Yeah, Eb did a soul gaze with him and saw his soul.. It makes sense that he would, after all his only daughter was taking up with this man, and seemed changed by him.
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Margaret probably had a terrible dating history before Malcolm, Lord Raith was probably the worst, but I wonder how many of his predecessors Eb killed? What with him being an overly protective father AND a major Supernatural assassin with a licence to kill, and her being a rebellious wild child associating with the less salubrious elements of the supernatural world. Quite a few of Harry’s rogues seem to have fond memories of his mother. Did she date them to spite her father?
Does anyone have a record of such mentions.? The two that spring to mind are Nicky commenting on Harry being Maggie’s youngest, and Goodman Grey saying she was as bad as his father. So did Margaret date a Denarian and a Naagloshii? The Lefay suggests that she dated amongst The Fae, so the Red Cap? The Erl King? What about the Hellhound, Eb really hates him.
Guaranteed to traumatise Harry if he goes down that route.
Malcolm must have seemed like a godsend to Eb, and probably was.
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Except Eb seemed to know Malcolm pretty well.. page 299 Blood Rites paperback
Confirmed by Eb in this passage, Malcolm was an ordinary human, not a scion of an angel or anything else. Also while if you want to split hairs, one could claim that when Eb says, a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen. He means he saw him and thought he was a good man, but really? I think when Eb says, "a good soul, like few I have ever seen. Yeah, Eb did a soul gaze with him and saw his soul.. It makes sense that he would, after all his only daughter was taking up with this man, and seemed changed by him.
Fix was a mortal until he chose. And I didn't say Eb didn't gaze him. But the statement is ambiguous. I would also point out that Margaret had a baby with Raith. And just as obviously she didn't share that with Eb. If Butcher is to be believed she was under a death sentence from the Council and running. Eb's knowledge would appear suspect. Which isn't to say you are wrong.
@Conspiracy Theorist
According to the Demon that Harry deals with in the early books she was on her way to Hell. But found redemption. She had a baby with Raith. She threw Thomas under the bus. And managed to find the time to find Malcolm, cuddle up, and make a baby all while on the run from both the Council and a curse. She had had broken the first law. A women of many talents.
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Fix was a mortal until he chose. And I didn't say Eb didn't gaze him. But the statement is ambiguous. I would also point out that Margaret had a baby with Raith. And just as obviously she didn't share that with Eb. If Butcher is to be believed she was under a death sentence from the Council and running. Eb's knowledge would appear suspect. Which isn't to say you are wrong.
@Conspiracy Theorist
According to the Demon that Harry deals with in the early books she was on her way to Hell. But found redemption. She had a baby with Raith. She threw Thomas under the bus. And managed to find the time to find Malcolm, cuddle up, and make a baby all while on the run from both the Council and a curse. She had had broken the first law. A women of many talents.
We got some facts about Margaret but the chronology is unclear and we might get a completely different spin later. We don’t know when she broke the first law and when the council discovered that, it could have been relatively late.
I don’t know about throwing Thomas under the bus. He was a white court vampire and taking him with her would have been disastrous. She probably did what she thought best for him.
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Ok, first things first. I agree Harry (and Murphy) heights are probably just Jim being Jim. I think Paul Blackthorne was an excellent Harry even when he is not as tall as he should, but yes, I would not be surprised if a major company selects someone smaller. I laughed a lot at the Tom Cruise comment (by the way, TV show Reacher is quite good IMHO, but I have not read the book.)
Second, I agree with Mira the sentence about Malcolm means that Eb soulgazed Malcolm. Or perhaps it means that he saw him under the Sight, but I believe the first interpretation is more probable. Eb is a wizard, when he talks about seeing a soul I understand he is being literal. I also don't think he is talking bad of Harry's own soul. When he soulgazed him, Harry was not in a good place and I am pretty sure his soul was probably...undecided. Sort of Molly's. Besides, I personally think that Harry has a darkness in himself that Malcolm probably hadn't. I do not imagine Malcolm saying that he would let the world burn as long as Harry is with him.
Side note, we all wonder what people sees when soulgazing Harry, but I am wondering what wizards see when looking at him under the Sight. It must be scary, as I bet many of the Council did that and they do not trust Harry. Pretty sure they did not see an angelic paladin like Murph.
Finally, yes, there is a LOT that we do not know about Harry's mom, like how he managed to have Lea protecting Harry. I hope we find some answers before the series is over.
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Yes, I hoped someone would pick that up, I haven’t read the Reacher books or seen the Cruise movie (not a fan of Cruise) but watched the Reacher series and enjoyed it, the actor I had seen in Titans and Brooklyn Nine Nine and though a couple of inches short of the characters 6 5’ he had the physicality of the character down pat, the rest could be dealt with by built up shoes and forced perspective. Cruise would have required stilts.
You probably could get away with a 6 4’ or 6 5’ actor for Harry if they were also skinny, someone like a young James Cromwell at 6 ‘6, perhaps the Succession actor Nicholas Braun also at 6 ‘6.
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Having read most of the books I tell you there is a reason that Reacher is 6'5" in the books, it's writing shorthand for the character and his physicality and menace. The prose draws a picture since the author can't show you the character. Butcher may have been channeling Gandalf.
In terms of Margaret the deeper the evils she commits the more emotion her redemption can draw out of the reader. If Margaret was a pristine maiden then she wouldn't need redemption. No good mother would leave a five year old child behind if she loved him. You have a direct counterpoint in Charity who charges the Evil Faerie's fortress for her daughter and was going to bring her home or die in the attempt. But frankly it's more fun to say she threw Thomas under the bus.
Malcolm is a archetype. The perfect father who loves his child. It's why the cup in the Christmas story packs so much emotion. I'm questioning how Butcher is using that archetype and to what point.
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Wizards wear a tall pointed hat to give the impression that they are tall, and tall people have authority. All the classic wizards, Gandalf, Merlin, Ridcully fall into this trope.
Harry is the wizard who doesn’t wear a hat. He is therefore as tall as he would appear IF he wore a hat.
But still doesn’t project an air of authority.
Margaret I suspect bought Harry’s freedom with Lea, by trading the firstborn girl of her line. Jim has said Harry is going to be pissed with Lea when he finds out the full details of the deal. Nothing would piss off Harry more than losing Maggie. Lea wants an apprentice, not for Mab, for herself, to create a new Leansidhe. Bad Margaret.
The perfect father trope may be Jim’s guilt over his failings as a father. All fathers in real life have failings, not all are aware of them. Malcolm is basically an idealised version of Jim Butcher, Harry’s other father.
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Butcher's father issues are none of my business. However having Malcolm speaking from beyond is kind of weird. Murphy never got to speak to her dad. It either a cheap trick to play on the emotions of the reader or there is a purpose beyond that.
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I actually watched and enjoyed the Reacher movie by Tom Cruise (I think there are two of them but I only remember one). However, I am aware of the description in the books and how weird it is to have it played by a short actor. That said, I always liked Cruise (as an actor, I mean). I am not sure I like Reacher's stories, but I find the character interesting. And I liked the actor of the show (yes, I saw him in Titans, and in Smallville before that. I am a DC fan first and foremost :P)
I agree about Margaret and her need of redemption. She was not the perfect mother, like Malcolm was the perfect father. I loved the Christmas mug scene. That said, I do not believe Margaret offered Lea a child. I think it is another thing but I do not what.
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I agree about Margaret and her need of redemption. She was not the perfect mother, like Malcolm was the perfect father. I loved the Christmas mug scene. That said, I do not believe Margaret offered Lea a child. I think it is another thing but I do not what.
I don't think she did either. If she did, it was important that Harry be kept safe, and she couldn't conceive of the idea that either Thomas or Harry would live long enough to have a daughter.
Further proof that Margaret didn't throw her son, Thomas under the bus is the loving message she left for both Harry and Thomas because she knew that they would soul gaze at some point. Also the lack of bitterness on the part of Thomas says at least he doesn't feel like she threw him under the bus. I think it was more of a "Sophie's Choice" on the part of Margaret, to give up Thomas for what she thought was the greater good or perhaps more to the point giving Thomas a better chance at survival than if she took him with her. Why? She knew he had the Hunger Demon inside of him and at some point it would make itself known. She also knew that if she took Thomas with her, none of them would survive the wrath of Raith and it was vital that she survive to conceive and give birth to a star child with Malcolm. Was it a great choice? Maybe not, hard difficult choices seldom are, but I totally doubt that she made it in the cold "throw under the bus" heartless manner suggested.
If I had to guess what the agreement with Lea was, I'd say that Margaret offered up her child as the future Winter Knight, that is why I think Mab was always so sure that Harry would eventually become her Knight/
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Priorities save the children she did have and worry about the consequences later, a very Harry attitude. I hope Butters uses his Favour to free Maggie. As Mab’s Vassal Lea is bound by her, she may have to give Lea something of equal value as compensation, unless Lea owes her for the freedom from Nemesis.
She didn’t offer Lea a child, Lea always asks for one though. She loves puppies and children. Lea may have thought that Molly was to be a new Leansidhe, but Mab had other ideas, suggesting that Lea may have been angling for this for some time. Lea may want to be Eldest Leansidhe, every indication is that she is the only Leansidhe. All her children with mortals turn out like Bob, and not like her. That must be very disappointing, and family get togethers especially tedious.
Remember Fae have many different methods of reproduction, especially if you get a unique being and want it to breed true, like Eldest Gruff. We never Mrs Eldest Gruff, or Nanny Gruff?
We haven’t I think seen the true first scenes between Harry and Lea. Harry’s Memory has been mucked about so much by the Fae, he needs to straighten it out. It may explain why he is so incurious about certain subjects, like Starborn, mental blocks were installed and these are starting to erode as he gets older and more into Mab’s service.
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Priorities save the children she did have and worry about the consequences later, a very Harry attitude. I hope Butters uses his Favour to free Maggie. As Mab’s Vassal Lea is bound by her, she may have to give Lea something of equal value as compensation, unless Lea owes her for the freedom from Nemesis.
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps she thought there was no saving Thomas, since he was born with the Hunger Demon? That if she took him with her, he was doomed for sure? At least this way as a vampire he had a chance to live. We don't know what she had to give Lea, if anything.. I think it was more the Winter Court benefited from the star child growing to adulthood, thus tying the child to the Winter Court whether he/she liked it or not. Lets not forget that for the first half of the series Harry was fighting those connections, but could never quite free himself because the Fae kept moving the goal posts.
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We saw in Peace Talks a very maternal side to Lara, she was effectively a second mother to Thomas rather than a sister. We know that Whamps have a low reproduction rate, I think this may be even more so for the female of the species, bearing a child rather than just reproducing far more risky for the child. Lara may have had centuries of miscarriages.
Raith tended to kill his Male heirs, to limit grandchildren etc plotting with their parent against him.We have no indication of Lara or her sisters having had children, we know she has approached Harry and Marcone as the two men probably strong enough to produce a surviving child with a life force strong enough be born alive to a female Whamp. This may be why she wants to marry Harry, she is desperate for a child, and thinks this is the only way.
It explains why she is so protective of Thomas, willing to put the entire White Court at risk.
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We understand very little of Margaret's motivation for what she did. But we have a sketch of what she did do. For her attack to work she had to sacrifice Thomas. There is nothing in the text that says Thomas's demon revealed itself in anyway different then Inari's. It follows that Margaret did what she did purposely and with knowledge of what it would do to Thomas.
I suspect that what she used to bargain with Lea was either some knowledge she had or Harry.
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We understand very little of Margaret's motivation for what she did. But we have a sketch of what she did do. For her attack to work she had to sacrifice Thomas. There is nothing in the text that says Thomas's demon revealed itself in anyway different then Inari's. It follows that Margaret did what she did purposely and with knowledge of what it would do to Thomas.
I suspect that what she used to bargain with Lea was either some knowledge she had or Harry.
I don't think the Hunger in him acted any different from Inari's Hunger. However there was no guarantee that he'd have found true love to burn it out either, when he reached puberty. As far as what it would do to Thomas, as I said there is also nothing in the text that Thomas was bitter towards her for leaving him. Now it is possible that that was because Lara explained that he was better off as a White Vampire with in the bosom of the Raith family than outside of it.
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We understand very little of Margaret's motivation for what she did. But we have a sketch of what she did do. For her attack to work she had to sacrifice Thomas. There is nothing in the text that says Thomas's demon revealed itself in anyway different then Inari's. It follows that Margaret did what she did purposely and with knowledge of what it would do to Thomas.
I suspect that what she used to bargain with Lea was either some knowledge she had or Harry.
I agree about what Margaret offered. Perhaps with her knowledge of the Ways she found something very valuable for Lea.
We haven’t I think seen the true first scenes between Harry and Lea. Harry’s Memory has been mucked about so much by the Fae, he needs to straighten it out. It may explain why he is so incurious about certain subjects, like Starborn, mental blocks were installed and these are starting to erode as he gets older and more into Mab’s service.
I would love if that is the explanation for Harry's lack of curiosity in many subjects. I found that infuriating, especially in a detective, and even when I understand there can be meta, story-telling reasons, I would love to see an explanation in universe.
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Things Harry is/was incurious of:-
1. The Fae
2. The Starborn
3. Bob’s origin
4. His family
5. Mister
These seem to be all linked together, remember Harry was always more curious about the Swords than any of these subjects until triggered, he researched Knights to figure out they were all the descendants of kings, but had no interest in finding out more about his family? That doesn’t make sense unless he was under a geas.
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For Harry to know Butcher must know. And the smart money is on Butcher not having a clue until he writes it. And even when he does, he dissembles. In Battle Ground and Peace Talks he adds a new layer, Demonreach, suggesting that he is concealing something. Which was really never in doubt.
Could Harry's memories have been messed with? Sure. But it's much easier to just lie to you, which Butcher does. He likes to use Bob this way.
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Things Harry is/was incurious of:-
1. The Fae
2. The Starborn
3. Bob’s origin
4. His family
5. Mister
These seem to be all linked together, remember Harry was always more curious about the Swords than any of these subjects until triggered, he researched Knights to figure out they were all the descendants of kings, but had no interest in finding out more about his family? That doesn’t make sense unless he was under a geas.
Oh I wouldn't say he is incurious, it is just that nobody wants to tell him anything.. He has asked several questions about being star born and what it means.. To people who should be in the know too... And they don't tell him squat.
Have you ever done much detective work? Harry cannot use a computer, and even if he did, it takes more than a Goggle inquiry to find out about his family, it takes time. Harry hasn't had a whole lot of that at any time.
Do you honestly think that Lea is going to set him down and teach The Fae 101? Harry has that much, anything more involves a lot more bargaining, and we've seen where that has gotten him..
You really think Harry hasn't asked Bob? I think he has tried, I seem to remember in Grave Peril, at least he tried to find out what the problem with Mab was.. Bob refused to answer, and remember the last time Harry ordered him to remember what was best left forgot? Harry was nearly killed.
Mister most likely just a huge old cat, I doubt that he has any maulk in him.. That could be resolved with a DNA test I suppose, but would it show up?
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Harry did not ask BOB (or Bonnie) about what being an starborn meant. They are literally a source of knowledge, and he did not ask. He did not ask Eb either. And yes, he asked LTW and Bigfoot but that was only in PT/BG, when he was aware of him being a starborn for many years before. He could ask Mac too.
He did not ask Gray more about Margaret either. In fact, I do not think he even asked Thomas how Margaret was before she left Raith.
I agree about the Fae and Bob's origin. He tried to get information, but it is not easy. And I do not think he has any reason to think there is anything to know about Mister. He rescued him, he has him since he was young, that is all. But I definitely think he should ask more questions about the starborn (especially now that he knows about Drakul y Listen) and his own family. (Side note, I intensely dislike that there is a character called Listen and another called Listens to wind).
What I mean about Harry being a detective is not that he had the ways to find answers but that he should be naturally curious, as a professional trait.
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Have you heard my Mister conspiracy theory? He is a Malk Changeling placed for Harry to find, by Lea or Mab because it plays into the treasured memory of his father finding a kitten and nursing it back to health.
The lack of a tail hides his Malk heritage whereas his large size and slow aging (Mister is 18) do not.
Harry may be aware of this subconsciously to some degree. In the Mister Microfiction his food bowl says the Emperor (Mouses Chewbacca) who was a Sith Lord. Harry made that very joke in Cold Days about Cat Sith. Mister in that Microfiction refers to humans as ‘monkeys’ an epithet used by the Fae when humans call them fairies. Toot refers to him as Dread Beast Mister the wee folk are deathly afraid of Malks. Mister looks just like himself in Harry’s Third Eye, which would be consistent with a Changeling not making a decision, happy as they are. Mab once had him on her lap in the apartment making a fuss of him. Mouse is bullied by him, and Mouse is awesome, a semi divine.
Mister as it turns out is probably a lousy spy, he immediately adopted his own agenda as king of the apartment, because cat. Lea understands dogs better. Mab is the cat person.
I am hoping this theory will be confirmed or denied in the new short story featuring a team up of Toot and Mister in the anthology Heroic Hearts. In the alternative perhaps Jim just wanted James Marsters to do silly voices (Mister, Toot, Lacuna) for a prolonged period when the audio book of the next collection is recorded. If anyone would know what Mister is exactly its Toot. They have been playing Cat and Toot for a decade and half.
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The lack of a tail hides his Malk heritage whereas his large size and slow aging (Mister is 18) do not.
Being 18 doesn't prove anything, the last few cats who have consented to share my space have lived to eighteen and beyond fairly hail and hearty, mice, rats, and birds, beware.. I have friends with 20 year old cats, Harry does mention that Mister is beginning to show his age..
Harry did not ask BOB (or Bonnie) about what being an starborn meant. They are literally a source of knowledge, and he did not ask. He did not ask Eb either. And yes, he asked LTW and Bigfoot but that was only in PT/BG, when he was aware of him being a starborn for many years before. He could ask Mac too.
Harry has only known about it the last few years, and he has been mostly dead or very busy all of that time. Bob has been with Butters the last few years and Bonnie thinks milk is alive and cannot get her pancake recipes organized yet. Eb so much as told him in Peace Talks that he wasn't going to tell him, he wasn't allowed to tell him.
He did not ask Gray more about Margaret either. In fact, I do not think he even asked Thomas how Margaret was before she left Raith.
He might be afraid of what he finds out. He has a picture of her that he is holding close..
I think now that he realizes being a star born is rather important, and Eb did tell him some things, I think he will find out more as the story progresses.
What I mean about Harry being a detective is not that he had the ways to find answers but that he should be naturally curious, as a professional trait.
But it is one thing to be curious, which Harry is, and obsessed, which he really doesn't have time for.
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Harry is starting to wonder about Mister’s age, not that Mister shows any sign of aging. Even Harry can do basic arithmatic and knows 18 is a good age for a cat, subconsciously this may be worrying Harry, that Mister is a hale and hearty tomcat despite being 18 years old.
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Harry has known that he is an starborn since Lash, I believe. Which means several years. Heck, he could have even asked Uriel.
And I agree curious and obsessed are different things but Harry is neither.
CT, I believe Mira is right. Harry mentioned Mister showing his age. But who knows, perhaps the new short story shows something different.
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Mister most likely just a huge old cat, I doubt that he has any maulk in him.. That could be resolved with a DNA test I suppose, but would it show up?
Heresy!
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That is interesting. I bet than when outside a living being, the faerie DNA disappears.
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That is interesting. I bet than when outside a living being, the faerie DNA disappears.
Butters would know.
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Heresy!
What? That Mister is not a Malk but a kick ass vanilla tom cat? What's wrong with that? Talk about heresy! :o
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What? That Mister is not a Malk but a kick ass vanilla tom cat? What's wrong with that? Talk about heresy! :o
MSTR is fully cat and fully white god. That is the mystery of the holy duality. No room for a malk.
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Arjan is the Pope of the Church of Mister is the White God.
This appears to have been disproved by the Mister Microfiction, which as it actually was a comic Arjan will doubtlessly claim is not canon.
The argument was that if Mouse is semi-divine (confirmed by Uriel) then as Mister bosses Mouse around, Mister must be full divine.
One can argue that Mister has incorporated a lot of Faerie DNA into himself, through the ingestion of Little Folk, but I doubt it’s Faerie dust Harry is removing from Misters litter tray. If one eats food from the Never Never, the molecules become incorporated into the body and vanish if they cease to have magic empowering them. The same may be true in reverse, eat enough Faerie flesh, your body become a Faerie. This means Mister has a second route to Malkdom.
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MSTR is fully cat and fully white god. That is the mystery of the holy duality. No room for a malk.
My cats Harry and Thomas concur.
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My cats Harry and Thomas concur.
I have four cats and each considers themselves to be the White God.
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I have four cats and each considers themselves to be the White God.
That is normal. Cats have a totally different attitude to religion.
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My cats Harry and Thomas concur.
You really have cats named Harry and Thomas? Lovely :)
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You really have cats named Harry and Thomas? Lovely :)
I have a dog named Harry. Actually Mr Harry Barry Blackdog, he is a long legged American Black, sweet, cuddly, and very excitable.
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I know about Harry :)
There are several forumites with pets named after Butcher's characters. Which, of course, it is not surprising but it is kinda cute. Icecream was one of the first I remember with a dog named Mouse.
Also, we have the occasional CHILD named Harry or another character name.
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I have a dog named Harry. Actually Mr Harry Barry Blackdog, he is a long legged American Black, sweet, cuddly, and very excitable.
Do you have a picture of him in a hat?
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Do you have a picture of him in a hat?
It's been rumored, but like Harry Dresden there are only pictures of him wearing a hat. Harry won't wear a hat, but he does wear a harness and bell when he is looking for people. He is an expert in "nose" magic, he can find someone on the wind who are hiding a half mile away.
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Heh, Dresden is an expert in finding people, so it is fitting.
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Heh, Dresden is an expert in finding people, so it is fitting.
Indeed, and Harry doesn't need a tracking spell either, though something that belonged to the victim or subject to get scent off of really helps.. ;)
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Well, Harry (Dresden) needs a thing from the victim to his tracking spells too. :)
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Well, Harry (Dresden) needs a thing from the victim to his tracking spells too. :)
Actually he doesn't, if there is no scent article, he will look for any human scent/person in the area.
With an uncontaminated scent article, he will find that person and only that person ignoring others who might be in the area.
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You really have cats named Harry and Thomas? Lovely :)
I have a friend who mixes Star Wars in... there's an Obi Dresden, and Mouse Marcone.... (cats) and a possible half credit for a Merlin (dog)? Big chunky cats too - part.. coon? Mister might approve.
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Mira, your Harry is so amazing :)
Ed, I adored Obi Dresden :D
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I have a friend who mixes Star Wars in... there's an Obi Dresden, and Mouse Marcone.... (cats) and a possible half credit for a Merlin (dog)? Big chunky cats too - part.. coon? Mister might approve.
I doubt that Mister would, just on principle..
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I doubt that Mister would, just on principle..
No, i think he would... but he would not SHOW that he did.
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Mister would approve of part coon cats is that part is also part Mister. It’s the Winter in him.
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Mister would approve of part coon cats is that part is also part Mister. It’s the Winter in him.
Well, maybe part "polecats...." Just out of sheer malice.. ::)
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I have a kid named Odin, but not specifically from Vadderung. But I do look forward to when my wife and I get to the parts where he is in (after ten years of me recommending it she has just started listening Dresden files together with me)