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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: fillmoreb on January 05, 2022, 07:47:30 PM
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Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I've been trying to figure out who Bob's parents must be. In an AMA Jim says "Both of Bob's parents have appeared in the Dresden Files. :)". I'm trying hard to figure out who they must be. In Skin Game, Harry has this conversation with himself:
"She's a spiritual entity," I breathed. "Oh, my God. She's a spirit of intellect."
"What happens when mortals get it on with spirits," my double confirmed, though now without heat.
Assuming that's the only way for a spirit of intellect to be formed, that means that Bob's parents are a mortal and a spirit. Bob's been around at least since the Middle Ages, since it was a Middle Age French wizard who bound him to the skull. That should narrow down the suspect pool for the "mortal" parent.
I'm drawing a blank going further than this. I would have gone with Lea as his mother, since he totally geeks out like a kid trying to get his parent's attention when he sees her. Proximity to her would also give him a reason to have discovered the big bad secret of Halloween night, earning him a banishment with prejudice by Mab. Lea is neither a spirit, nor mortal, though.
It's tough. Perhaps it's Merlin and Demonreach. Deliberately creating Bob, with the explicit purpose of being an instrument of translation for the Island in the future... dunno. Would explain how demonreach instantly knew how to interface with Bob. *shrug*
Maybe there's no big reason or cool parentage at all. Perhaps it was just Etienne the Enchanter and Ulsharavas. No reason why he couldn't have had contact with the Oracle Spirit.
What are all your theories?
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Welcome to the forums, Fillmoreb. :)
It's perfectly fine to bring up previously discussed topics, lawd knows we all do. Everything here has been discussed and dissected to death, then resurrected and the process starts all over again!
I have thought about this a lot, but sadly I think this is one of those you can't see the nose on your face issues. Jim said it to mess with the fans, and I suspect it will come true in ways unlooked for.
I like your ideas. I don't think I am convinced about Demonreach - Bob and he don't seem to acknowledge each other any more than both being spirits. Lea is a possible suspect, but there are reasons she also doesn't work. We will get to that. Leah is technically a creature of both the spirit and mortal world...but it's tricky too. Anyway, I will give you my thoughts.
I am almost dead certain Bob's mother is Mab. Considering his entire deal around her...it would make sense. Also given some of the information he knows, Spirits of Intellect gain their knowledge from their parents, at least initially. Not to mention, he is a spirit of air. What is Mab the Queen of? Air and Darkness. And Bob has a very dark side. A blue side, I might add. Also, Mab is known for logic and reasoning...and Bob is a Spirit of Intellect which counts for the same.
Now, considering Mab's great love was Merlin (this is clear from Peace Talks) we could be forgiven for assuming they are both the parents.
But wait! Are we not supposed to have met both parents, and we haven't met the original Merlin Emrys (whom Corb says is not "among the living")?
But as many characters (including Mab and Lasciel) have pointed out, death isn't so black and white. Perhaps we did meet Merlin, but under another name and guise...
But there are other possibilities. Jim has also said SoI's are made of the combination of an immortal and a mortal parent. But as Harry has shown, that can be two beings in the same body.
So it could have been Mab while mortal, with an immortal in her head. Or Merlin for that matter. But what immortal would that be?
Not to mention, there are many, many side stories. Not even all of them from when Dresden was alive. So it could well be something not in the main series at all.
I did wonder about Kemmler for a while, but he only got Bob well after his creation. Vadderung seems a good choice, he had many sons. But why wouldn't he give Bob a body (gods can do that, that's how Athena came to be from Zeus)? Could Merlin have just been a guise of Vadderung?
Rashid isn't a bad choice, Mab seems to have a special interest (that we are meant to assume is due to his role) but still. And he is old enough, technically. He also seems to have taken his role as Gatekeeper right around the time Mab ascended to Winter Queen.
Another option is the Archive and someone/thing. Because Bob is basically just a little Archive, without the body. But then, we still don't have the other parent.
It's also worth considering Bob's nature. He is perpetually horny, a wiseass, a bit of a coward at times, and a very, very powerful psychic demon. Considering the sex-focussed spirits, I can only really think of the White Court being involved. That being said, a lot of those personality traits are to do with being picked up by Dresden at age sixteen.
So, what's the answer? Who knows. But in order for me:
1. Mab (Winter Queen) + Rashid
2. Mab (Winter Queen) on her own
3. Mab and the OG Merlin (although he then has to have a different alias we have met somewhere in one of the books, even a short story or comic).
4. The Archive + someone
5. Vadderung + someone
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My Bets on Mab as well.
Still confused about who his father is. I tend to agree with the candidates proposed as possible.
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The Leansidhe is a muse, she provides creative inspiration to mortals resulting in their early death. Sounds like what was on the cards with Harry and Lash. I have long posited she is Bob’s Mother based on exactly the same passage as she is the only major Winter Fae he isn’t terrified of.
Father would have to be a mortal wizard, so Rashid is the only named character old enough to do this. Other wizards such as Cowl or Namshiel’s previous host might be candidates, in the latter case picking up a coin might be a way to survive the birth of Bob like Molly was able to do so with Harry. Fallen Angel in, Bob out.
The other alternative is the unnamed British Prisoner in Demonreach so that might be a historical or mythological wizard other than Merlin.
I like this chap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Scot
Wizards can live four centuries so figure in a couple of centuries either way of birth and death so he could easily have been an contemporary of Rashid, and he is the right geographical area for Lea.
The iron cap he wore may have been a contraceptive device to ensure Bob was an only child. Lea is a bit stalkery.
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Or he didn't have any parents, he might be the origin of how the tale of "babies found under cabbage leaves.."began. Welcome to the forum!
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Or he didn't have any parents, he might be the origin of how the tale of "babies found under cabbage leaves.."began. Welcome to the forum!
Born from a head of cabbage?
WOJ doesn’t indicate a cruciferous vegetable origin, but rather two parents a mortal and a spirit.
We have seen a possessed cabbage patch doll in the Dresdenverse so it may be possible.
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Born from a head of cabbage?
WOJ doesn’t indicate a cruciferous vegetable origin, but rather two parents a mortal and a spirit.
We have seen a possessed cabbage patch doll in the Dresdenverse so it may be possible.
No, I said found under a cabbage leaf, not born from, two different things all together.
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Bobs a Caterpillar? What does he pupate into?
A Deaths Head Moth?
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I also think Leanansidhe.
She gains power by doing what she does, which is unlocking creative potential at the cost of shortened life.
I've thought a lot about the shadows, and I think what's supposed to happen is that they are re-absorbed by the parent when the coin is taken up. They're an imprint that is to be over-written or returned to the host.
If Leanansidhe works similarly, then what she does is put a seed of herself in a mortal that unlocks their potential by hardwiring in skills they'd otherwise need years of study to unlock, and the shadow grows in said mortal until mommy comes along and reabsorbs it, growing stronger by what the "father" has put into the child. Perhaps the birth of the spirit is what kills the host?
Furthering that analogy, if Bob was safely delivered, his fear of Mab would come down to his being simply too powerful. If Leanansidhe reabsorbed him, she'd grow too strong too quickly, and throw the Courts into turmoil. Amusingly, it would also- if Leanansidhe can track Bob- provide a way for her to have protected Harry's old home- her link to her "child." Perhaps she gets info from Bob.
As to the father- whoo boy! Rashid's old enough. Vadderung and Lea have a bit of something alluded to at Chicken Itza (wouldn't that be a crazy twist!) Assuming Bob's original knowledge of magic is derived from his parents, his knowledge of faith magic and the Knights is, IIRC, a bit sketchy but his knowledge of the Winter Fae pretty extensive. I'd lean towards one of those.
I also really hope Lea drops a line about liking her men- and women- best at 27.
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Lash did gift Harry with music so definitely a parallel to Lea.
I think the Chicken Pizza reference is that Vadderung is also Kringle, a foreshadowing of Cold Days reveal that they are the one and the same. Lea of course would know as Mab’s No2. Definitely a relationship but not the one you are thinking of.
Bob came to Harry via Justin but Margaret LeFey had long been an Fae target of interest and she made a bargain which resulted in protecting Harry. I suspect Margaret bargained away the first female issue of her line which would be Maggie to protect her second son.
Besides Mister was Leas spy in Harry’s household, I have written a whole Spiel on that particular conspiracy theory.
Now Mab can’t see inside Demonreach, if you were Bob’s father and had survived his birth only for Lea to continue to obsessively stalk profess her love for you, it is the one place you could actually hide out from her. Look at Lasciel with Harry. That’s why I think the British Prisoner is Bob’s Father. He says he deserved to be there because he voluntarily got involved with an Easter Bunny Boiler.
If it is Michael Scot then he may be a link in the chain between the original Merlin and Eb, and may have personal knowledge of the young Mab.
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So, first I have to ask what mortals have been around long enough to be one of Bob's parents. The list is pretty short.
Mab, when she was a mortal.
Titania, when she was a mortal.
The Gaterkeeper
Ancient Mai
Kemmler
Nicodemus
Tessa
Quintus Cassius (Snakeboy)
The British prisoner
We can eliminate Nic, Tessa and Cassius because they were all incapable of loving anyone for a very long time, if ever. (Unless you count Nic's relationship with; never mind, that's way too yucky to think about.) Plus, it's highly likely their only involvement with spiritual entities is with the Fallen in the coin they've each carried.
It can't be Kemmler because; for one thing we haven't really seen him in the series, we've just heard about him. Plus, I think it might have been impossible for Bob to have cut off his knowledge of Kemmler if Kemmler was his father. It would have been like cutting himself in half.
The Gatekeeper. He's done enough time travel to make him a reasonable candidate.
Ancient Mai. She hasn't appeared very often, but I can't rule her out either. It might make for an interesting twist if it was her.
Titania isn't in the story often enough to make her a good candidate. Plus, we know so very little about her background.
Mab; on the other hand, has been in the story quite often. Her backstory as a mortal is something we may one day learn more about. She's a very good candidate.
The British prisoner. Well, I'm making an assumption that he is human. If so, he's another sound candidate.
The spiritual entity is a real tough one to guess. I don't count any of the Fae as spiritual entities. Lea told Harry in Ghost Story that she was of both worlds. That means all of the fae are. So, they are like mules which are part horse and part donkey and should be incapable of breeding, at least in the way Harry and Lash did. However, they can breed just fine with mortals the old fashion way; just like the Greek and other various ancient gods are supposed to have done. Plus, how many of the fae are capable of having feelings of love? Probably some, but I doubt any of them are from Winter.
I seriously doubt anyone has ever had a relationship with a copy of one of the Fallen the way Harry did. It seems like a pretty unique relationship to me. That leaves the Loa, demons, angels, ghosts, ancient gods and maybe Outsiders. Oh yea, I'm forgetting Mac; before he became a bartender and short order cook. Too much points to Mac as having once been something more than just human.
I'm pretty sure we can eliminate Demons and Outsiders. The only ghost we've met and know a fair amount about was Sir Stewart and he seemed most interested in looking after his descendant Mort. The older gods seem to prefer the physical means of reproduction with mortals, so that probably eliminates Odin. Ulsharavas is the only Loa we've met and only once. Angels are just too remote, to committed to what they are. Plus, they lack free will.
I'm going to guess Bob's parents are Mab when she was a mortal and Mac when he wasn't. It might explain why she healed him in, was it Cold Days or a short story, I don't remember which. Perhaps such a union also explains why Mac is now mortal. That would make them star-crossed lovers. Mac became a mortal when Mab became immortal.
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Bob is a spirit being, I doubt that he had any parents at all.
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I seriously doubt anyone has ever had a relationship with a copy of one of the Fallen the way Harry did.
Namshiel and Marcone, it may explain why a vanilla mortal is suddenly able to do magic, it isn’t really Marcone, doing it, it’s the spirit of intellect growing in his head doing the magic like Bob and Butters.
Boy is Harry going to enjoy finding that out if it’s correct! At least until little Namcone start dating Bonny.
WOJ has it yes, Bob has parents and we have met both parents.
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It's been heavily implied the writer of the Shepard's daughter book was the mortal host. "I've been chasing Shepard's daughters since before you were born!" I can't remember who it was, some super fans can tell you.
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We can eliminate Nic, Tessa and Cassius because they were all incapable of loving anyone for a very long time, if ever. (Unless you count Nic's relationship with; never mind, that's way too yucky to think about.) Plus, it's highly likely their only involvement with spiritual entities is with the Fallen in the coin they've each carried.
Is love a requirement? I think sex would work just fine. But I get your point. And I don't think Nicodemus would have simply because of he already had a Fallen to begin with. Bob doesn't really resemble any of the Fallen, and I don't get the impression he is like Bonnea in that way.
It can't be Kemmler because; for one thing we haven't really seen him in the series, we've just heard about him. Plus, I think it might have been impossible for Bob to have cut off his knowledge of Kemmler if Kemmler was his father. It would have been like cutting himself in half.
He was in A Fistful of Warlocks, but I take your meaning. But yes, Kemmler only got Bob sometime after Bob was born so I don't think he was his parent. I also got the impression he twisted Bob from his natural state, which wouldn't have been necessary I imagine if Kemmler was his parent. Also Bob doesn't talk about him like a parent. Although, I kinda think that is exactly what happened when Bob and Evil Bob split. Buu and Majin Buu.
Titania isn't in the story often enough to make her a good candidate. Plus, we know so very little about her background.
I did wonder about her, because Bob's natural state is orange/gold etc. Color associated with Titania. But Bob hardly mentions her, and I would imagine she would produce a spirit more associated with emotion etc. Bob is a logic machine.
Mab; on the other hand, has been in the story quite often. Her backstory as a mortal is something we may one day learn more about. She's a very good candidate.
Yeah, by far the best really. But unless she did it on her own there has to be someone else, and Jim said parents (plural).
The British prisoner. Well, I'm making an assumption that he is human. If so, he's another sound candidate.
Possible, whoever he is. I don't think he is Merlin or Arthur though. Jim seemed to be under the mistaken impression that those characters might not be public domain. Whoever he is, he isn't them.
The spiritual entity is a real tough one to guess. I don't count any of the Fae as spiritual entities. Lea told Harry in Ghost Story that she was of both worlds. That means all of the fae are. So, they are like mules which are part horse and part donkey and should be incapable of breeding, at least in the way Harry and Lash did. However, they can breed just fine with mortals the old fashion way; just like the Greek and other various ancient gods are supposed to have done. Plus, how many of the fae are capable of having feelings of love? Probably some, but I doubt any of them are from Winter.
I do, to be honest. They are partly both as you point out. But I get what you mean. Because if Mab had a child with a mortal man, it would be a Changeling. Not a spirit of air like Bob. So it does suggest their needed to be a more spirit-y being. Yeah, not so sure love is required. Harry thinks so but I think he is a bit naïve myself.
I seriously doubt anyone has ever had a relationship with a copy of one of the Fallen the way Harry did. It seems like a pretty unique relationship to me. That leaves the Loa, demons, angels, ghosts, ancient gods and maybe Outsiders. Oh yea, I'm forgetting Mac; before he became a bartender and short order cook. Too much points to Mac as having once been something more than just human.
It does seem unique, I agree. Grigori are supposed to have Nephilim, so Mac is out.
I'm pretty sure we can eliminate Demons and Outsiders. The only ghost we've met and know a fair amount about was Sir Stewart and he seemed most interested in looking after his descendant Mort. The older gods seem to prefer the physical means of reproduction with mortals, so that probably eliminates Odin. Ulsharavas is the only Loa we've met and only once. Angels are just too remote, to committed to what they are. Plus, they lack free will.
Outsiders, for sure cannot be a parent. But demons? Bob is a demon technically. So a demon is a very reasonable bet. Not a Fallen btw. I mean like Chauncy or whatever.
Angels don't entirely lack free will, but they are limited. Jim points out that they must have some free will otherwise how could they Fall?
I'm going to guess Bob's parents are Mab when she was a mortal and Mac when he wasn't. It might explain why she healed him in, was it Cold Days or a short story, I don't remember which. Perhaps such a union also explains why Mac is now mortal. That would make them star-crossed lovers. Mac became a mortal when Mab became immortal.
Not a bad guess I think, and I like the star-crossed lovers. Not sure I agree but it's a fair guess.
Bob is a spirit being, I doubt that he had any parents at all.
Yet Jim was asked who the parents were, and said we had met both in the series. Read the OP's post Mira, that's part of rules of posting.
Namshiel and Marcone, it may explain why a vanilla mortal is suddenly able to do magic, it isn’t really Marcone, doing it, it’s the spirit of intellect growing in his head doing the magic like Bob and Butters.
Boy is Harry going to enjoy finding that out if it’s correct! At least until little Namcone start dating Bonny.
WOJ has it yes, Bob has parents and we have met both parents.
God, that would be terrifying. If Marcone had his own SoI...he would really be bad. I think it's clear he is being set up to be Harry's ultimate nemesis myself. He gains power at about the same rate, and has been in the series almost as long (Dresden has him by two chapters).
Not saying I agree that is how Marcone does his magic though, all humans have the potential according to Jim. A Fallen can coax that out all on it's own, not to mention Namshiel is the magic specialist, and Marcone is an extremely dedicated student. Likely much more than Harry in some ways. I also wonder if Marcone always had a bit of magic, there are constant descriptions of Marcone having almost supernatural speed and weirdness. I wonder if he and Dresden ever actually touched bare hands. Perhaps he has been hiding his talent all this time. Perhaps it wasn't Harry who initiated the Soul Gaze in Storm Front, but Dresden. Hell, he could be Cowl for all we know. Some of his speech patterns are similar, and Cowl likes hiding his identity. It would be very Marcone to pretend he didn't have magic for as long as possible. Indeed, we only learned about it because he fought Ethniu. Marcone deliberately chose to fight without magic up until he almost died, it was literally his last line of defence.
It's been heavily implied the writer of the Shepard's daughter book was the mortal host. "I've been chasing Shepard's daughters since before you were born!" I can't remember who it was, some super fans can tell you.
Great find, but have we met that author in the books? Jim said we had met both parents. But I do like the connection.
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:o holy... No, but we've met a spiritual entity specifically known for giving inspiration to writers... Leah.. Perhaps whomever they inspired didn't stay human though 🤔 otherwise they'd be long dead and we could not have met them. Wagging a bit, but Leah and... EG?🤷♂️
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:o holy... No, but we've met a spiritual entity specifically known for giving inspiration to writers... Leah.. Perhaps whomever they inspired didn't stay human though 🤔 otherwise they'd be long dead and we could not have met them. Wagging a bit, but Leah and... EG?🤷♂️
Exciting right?! Leah is also a good guess, but mortals and Fae produce Changelings generally, not SoI's as far as we have seen. Leah and EG would surely produce a faery, no? And what an interesting being that would be. Two very powerful Fae, one Winter and one of Summer, the child could be very, very powerful indeed.
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There are several ways new Fae come into existence, changelings are one by sexual reproduction, but Toot’s journey is another, and Molly’s yet another, and these are just what we have seen in the books. Therefore a spirit of intellect might have yet another. Winter is all sex and Summer is all fertility.
If Lea is responsible for Bob then there may be other spirits of intellect who descend from her rather than say the Greco Roman muses, certainly they seem to be common enough to be a class of being rather than a singular type of being, but they may stay within the NeverNever vulnerable to dawn in the Mortal World.
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Bonea was not a product of a Fallen and a human, but the shadow of a fallen and a human. Marcone doesn't have the Shadow, he has the real deal. If he gives up the coin it's over. No baby.
Just for laughs and giggles and because no speculation is complete without a time travel component, Harry goes back in time and drops off at Ettiene the Enchanter's hovel and pinches off a small piece of Bonea to make Bob, making sure that he is there to help later. Thus Bob is a secondary product of Lash and Harry. And then boom Harry is off again to wherever he is going to go to eventually.
Humor aside we have seen two ways that a spirit of intellect can be created. Only one way needs to involve two parents directly.
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Bonea was not a product of a Fallen and a human, but the shadow of a fallen and a human. Marcone doesn't have the Shadow, he has the real deal. If he gives up the coin it's over. No baby.
Almost, Bonea is the product of a shadow of a Fallen and the "ego" of a human.. Nothing physical, no egg, no sperm.. It makes sense that if he has parents, Bob was conceived in much the same way.
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I only know what I read. We've seen the process twice. Once with Harry and Lash and once with Bob and Evil Bob. The only other spirit of intellect resides in the Archive. And no one ever asks how the Archive came to exist.
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I only know what I read. We've seen the process twice. Once with Harry and Lash and once with Bob and Evil Bob. The only other spirit of intellect resides in the Archive. And no one ever asks how the Archive came to exist.
All I am saying is she wasn't conceived in the normal biological way..
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Not sure the Archive is a spirit of Intellect, Bob is compared to a smaller version of the Archive as a data retrieval device.
As regards Namshiel and Marcone, it’s the act of creation going on inside Marcone’s head which is important. Marcone has been touched and soul gazed by Harry so he knows he is a vanilla mortal. The Fallen have to reside in their hosts head as shadows or otherwise, but I doubt they really if ever prior to Lash and Harry engaged in a creative (as opposed to a destructive) processes. Marcone and Namshiel May be making a spirit of intellect but I doubt there is any love involved which may be required.
Yes Bob can bud off another version of himself by giving it a chunk of his memories which is another form of reproduction, one I doubt is open to more fleshy Fae. The moral is “Life Finds Away” as Sue would say.
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@Mira
I never had an thought that biology was involved. The concept of Lash and Bonea make no sense in that respect. Your brain doesn't have any spare capacity in the way Jim writes it. And it never made any sense that Lash didn't give Harry headaches and Bonea did.
@Conspiracy Theorist
For a character with such unique qualities, the Archive doesn't get much explanation.
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@Conspiracy Theorist
For a character with such unique qualities, the Archive doesn't get much explanation.
And Jim likes it that way, it means he isn’t hedged in when he next uses the character, which suggests it’s all going to come out in the future. A lot of people were frustrated by the lack of character interaction between Harry and Ivy in Peace Talks and Battle Ground, and I suspect that was deliberate for the future reveal. Instead we got River as confidant and exposition as fan service, a character previously relegated to side stories. It was a bit like Matt Murdoch/Kingpin appearing in No WayHome/Hawkeye.
The likelihood is the same with Bob’s parents, there is some future plot point bound up in it so it makes this a significant topic for speculation.Jim has teased this following speculation upon Bonea coming into being, so he is sitting there gleefully hugging himself.
We know Harry is going to time travel as he will breach every law of Magic, so perhaps we are going to see Bob’s conception or birth or the consequences of them. This is why I think a historical wizard like Michael Scot, is Bob’s Father, Harry is responsible for putting the British Prisoner in Demonreach in the past to frustrate Lea’s continued attention, after religious instruction and iron skullcaps fail. For example Harry needs to consult with the last known authority on the superweapons, but they mysteriously disappeared in the 13th Century, Harry has to track them down in person. Turns out they were in Demonreach all along, due to Harry. That would be a very Harry story.
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Bonea was not a product of a Fallen and a human, but the shadow of a fallen and a human.
technically true, but I wouldn't try to argue that with lasciel lol. She was certainly ready to take credit.
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The worst kind of helicopter parent.
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@Mira
I never had an thought that biology was involved. The concept of Lash and Bonea make no sense in that respect. Your brain doesn't have any spare capacity in the way Jim writes it. And it never made any sense that Lash didn't give Harry headaches and Bonea did.
@Conspiracy Theorist
For a character with such unique qualities, the Archive doesn't get much explanation.
I agree, Lash supposedly was the shadow of Lasciel, I guess you could call her the spiritual essence of Lasciel. Nothing really material about her, perhaps that is why she never gave Harry a headache. However in her transformation from the shadow of Lasciel to Lash, she did appear before him, but that could have been an illusion. Also I.D. Harry is what? Brain waves? I guess because she is a being of energy or essence of spirit, Bonea could give Harry headaches? And how is it that Molly could act as midwife when no one else could? Or because of her psych talent only she is able to. I guess it amounts to accepting what it is written for what it is and don't dig too deeply... ::)
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I suppose Lash was a little piece of Lasciel's soul... was it Uriel who said angels are ALL soul? (could have been Bob). And harry asked if he had a soul, was told "You ARE a soul, you HAVE a body" (I think that was Uriel)
I guess Bonea was creating destructive interference in Harry's head - you know, like conflicting waveforms in physics? Molly is good with psychic matters, that was why she could help. There likely could have been others who could, but may not be so well inclined to Harry, or been busy (thinking Gatekeeper, the guy cleaning up Peabody's victims)
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I suppose Lash was a little piece of Lasciel's soul... was it Uriel who said angels are ALL soul? (could have been Bob). And harry asked if he had a soul, was told "You ARE a soul, you HAVE a body" (I think that was Uriel)
I guess Bonea was creating destructive interference in Harry's head - you know, like conflicting waveforms in physics? Molly is good with psychic matters, that was why she could help. There likely could have been others who could, but may not be so well inclined to Harry, or been busy (thinking Gatekeeper, the guy cleaning up Peabody's victims)
As I said, accepted as it is written and don't dig too deeply with logic or science..
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@morris& Mira: I was thinking lash existed specifically in his shadow in the psychological sense.(which is exactly what ID Harry is) where as Bonea was growing in the same spot, but was never given precise boundaries in it, so she kept growing the inability to contain said growth caused the headaches. Iirc, mab said the other result would be Harry's death and a creature walking around in his body or some such? She'd have replaced him outright in his own mind. Lash just wanted it use the space to feed on his soul.
Alot of the DF has subtle psychological undercurrents in it's metaphysical makeup.
Fairly certain, the shadow, Nemesis, the mirror of ones true self sans any mask,(mask, mantle) ect. Are all interrelated in the DFs higher concepts. Things that might not be touched upon but make the story go round
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@morris& Mira: I was thinking lash existed specifically in his shadow in the psychological sense.(which is exactly what ID Harry is) where as Bonea was growing in the same spot, but was never given precise boundaries in it, so she kept growing the inability to contain said growth caused the headaches. Iirc, mab said the other result would be Harry's death and a creature walking around in his body or some such? She'd have replaced him outright in his own mind. Lash just wanted it use the space to feed on his soul.
Alot of the DF has subtle psychological undercurrents in it's metaphysical makeup.
Fairly certain, the shadow, Nemesis, the mirror of ones true self sans any mask,(mask, mantle) ect. Are all interrelated in the DFs higher concepts. Things that might not be touched upon but make the story go round
That is all well and good, but Bonea is a physical creature. She may not have a body, but like Bob she exists in physical form. It suggest that Bob was created in much the same way..
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That is all well and good, but Bonea is a physical creature. She may not have a body, but like Bob she exists in physical form. It suggest that Bob was created in much the same way..
mmm, no? She exists in reality as a spiritual form. Meaning unlike ghosts she has some pull or give to stay in the physical world, in this case the spell work of her vessel(still up in the air if it has the same deal attached to it bob's does, I think so, not by intent but by literal design)
Naturally they were created in similar fashion, I figure that was part of the point in naming her specifically a Soi. Though I'm wondering if Bob didn't kill his host
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mmm, no? She exists in reality as a spiritual form. Meaning unlike ghosts she has some pull or give to stay in the physical world, in this case the spell work of her vessel(still up in the air if it has the same deal attached to it bob's does, I think so, not by intent but by literal design)
Naturally they were created in similar fashion, I figure that was part of the point in naming her specifically a Soi. Though I'm wondering if Bob didn't kill his host
Maybe I didn't make myself clear, by "physical" I mean no solid, you most likely put your hand through either of them without harming them. In that respect they are like a ghost, but clearly they are not. I think another point about Bob, he can leave his skull and go riding on Mister's back to go places, but he cannot or at least hasn't possessed him.. Which sets him apart from say the Corpsetaker.
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Regarding: Lasciel.
I read that as, from her POV, that Lash was her daughter.
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Both Bob and Bonea should be able to pull in ectoplasm from the Never Never and create themselves a body, so long as they power it with Magic and avoid dawn.
Thinking about it several Denarians have demon forms larger than their human bodies when Gray goes large he explpulls in excess mass from the Never Never. Bonea should know this trick even if Bob doesn’t.
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I think it's semantics whether Bonnea was created from a Shadow of a Fallen versus a Fallen. The imprint (Lash) is Lasciel - it's personality, memories, purpose, and some limited version of it's powers are Lasciel's. I doubt Lasciel saw much difference until Dresden changed her avatar. Because that's what Lash was, an avatar of the main being.
In terms of Bonnea's powers and knowledge, I doubt she would be all too different. The biggest difference is that the being Lash had become by the time her and Harry conceived Bonnea, is that Lash was a far more independent being than the original avatar and a far kinder one. So perhaps Bonnea's personality will be less close to Lasciel and closer to the changed Lash. Time will tell.
I get what you're saying Mira about physical. I think a better word is probably visible. Because Bob and Bonnea are not subject much to the laws of physics, rather about as much as ghost Harry. They are far more affected by spiritual laws. Which isn't to say they can't affect the physical world, or that it can't affect them (which gives some hints about the dynamics between the physical and spiritual). We can see their forms however, unlike the wraiths and other incorporeal beings of the Astral Plane. Which is significant, I think.
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Bob can interfere with the electromagnetic spectrum, presumably this includes the spectrum of visible light hence the orange (and occasionally other colours) light motes he manifests. They could be holograms rather than a magical illusion.
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Maybe I didn't make myself clear, by "physical" I mean no solid, you most likely put your hand through either of them without harming them. In that respect they are like a ghost, but clearly they are not.
that doesn't clear it up at all except to say you see them differently? The only difference I can see is their ability interact and effect reality, people (bob's orgies) and ergo fate. But that's already been discussed in woj, they're borrowing that will and their place in reality via the agreement on the skull with the person holding it. They're co-oping it.
I think another point about Bob, he can leave his skull and go riding on Mister's back to go places, but he cannot or at least hasn't possessed him.. Which sets him apart from say the Corpsetaker.
and he has indeed, not for awhile but he took possession of Mister in one of the early books, one scene even has him ask Harry if he'd like him to take mister for a ride along to go look for something. He didn't mean on his back. This was I think before Jim put greater significance to mister perhaps, which is why he stopped doing it, but it happened. Taking over a person would require more willpower, though not ability, than Bob has perhaps?
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Bob can animate the inanimate. He does it in Skin Game with the lion. And he manifests a body in Ghost Story.
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Only in the Never Never.
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Bob’s body in Ghost Story was within the skull, as for the lion, I think Bob would prefer something a little fleshy.
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Bob’s body in Ghost Story was within the skull, as for the lion, I think Bob would prefer something a little fleshy.
Which begs the question, is inside the skull another dimension? By that I mean when Harry was inside of the skull in Ghost Story if I remember correctly he was amazed how "homey" for lack of a better word it was. To me that says to me that inside the skull there is another dimension where the Bob lives, and outside of it he is a bodyless spirit. It seems also that Jim kind of borrowed a bit from DR Who and the TARDIS.
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The Skull is The Matrix, Harry was Neo, and Bob was Morpheus.
Basically it is information space, and Harry was a compatible data format as a spirit.
Bob’s problem is that anything outside of his head is not translatable in the same way. He doesn’t get to meet people, so the ride along to Butters Mother was a precious real world data gathering exercise, he could therefore replicate the touch, taste and smell of Mrs Butters delicacies.
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Unless I'm missing something nowhere does it state that there needs to be two genders involved to create a baby Spirit of Intellect. So maybe instead of thinking it's Mab/Lea/Odin/Gatekeeper/whoever and someone from the opposite gender maybe it's a same-sex deal? I feel like this twist is enough to keep us guessing about who Bob's parents are while still keeping it mysterious enough.
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Correct, but the number of female mortals around at the time of Bob’s conception and introduced as a character we have met in the Dresden Files is zero.
We have also not been introduced to a Male muse or equivalent like Lea. Theoretically it could be one of the ‘male’ Denarians and I have posited Namshiel/Marcone somewhat as producing a new spirt of intellect explaining vanilla Marcone able to do magic in jest BUT Bob has problems with Angelic energy as not being on his wavelength suggesting Bob doesn’t have a Denarian or angelic parent, unlike Bonea.