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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on October 15, 2021, 04:54:38 AM
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So Nicodemus once a year can use his Barabbas curse. He attempted to kill Dresden with it, but Shiro took Dresden's place. According to the Bible, the people had a choice. Release Jesus who had done nothing wrong, or release Barabbas, a known criminal. The people chose Barabbas. I suspect that Nicodemus is able to choose who lives, or who dies, once a year. In this situation he used it to save Blood on his soul who was smashed to paste, and should not have survived.
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It would also mean his release from Hades domain, AND he didn’t choose Hannah Ascher, or Deidre so that means Laschiel and the Missus are NOT going to be happy he choose a big smelly grendelkin.
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I thought the Knights chose a life to save
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I thought the Knights chose a life to save
It is a little more complicated I believe.. When they fight someone one with a coin and defeat them they give him or her a choice,1] give up the coin and seek redemption for the rest of his or her life2]not, but more or less let them get away in the hope that someday they might give up the coin3] if the coin holder continues to battle, they can kill them in the course of the battle..
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I thought the Knights chose a life to save
The Knights have a duty, not a choice. They don't choose life or death. They provide the person with a Coin a Choice of life or death. if the person gives up the Coin, the Knight cannot choose death, as Karen Murphy found out.
We know that the Noose gives Nicodemus the ability to cast the Barabbas curse, which will kill someone. There is no known defense against the Barabbas death curse other than someone who will sacrifice themselves. I'm suggesting that it's more than that. Nicodemus can also choose to save someone who shouldn't be able to survive.
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Harry can defeat the Barabas curse, or at least Nick thinks he can so hasn’t cast it on him.
Harry has survived entropy curses, death curses, prophecy etc the Barabas Curse would just have to take a ticket in the queue with an alarmingly high number.
I wonder however if Harry is immune because he has devined that the noose is the only thing that can kill its wearer and tried to use it to kill Nick, coming closer than anyone has ever done. That knowledge and action is protecting him, uniquely. If you know how to kill the unkillable man wearing the noose, then the man wearing the noose cannot use the failsafe way of killing any man using the noose.
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Or because he's been targeted and someone sacrificed themselves for him already, so he can't be targeted again?
*Heck, everyone talks about Cassius's death curse in relation to Murphy, but Nic could have done it too. Small petty revenge from whatever hole he's currently hiding in.... That.. might explain why the knights showed up in reply. They were on duty there.
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Or because he's been targeted and someone sacrificed themselves for him already, so he can't be targeted again?
*Heck, everyone talks about Cassius's death curse in relation to Murphy, but Nic could have done it too. Small petty revenge from whatever hole he's currently hiding in.... That.. might explain why the knights showed up in reply. They were on duty there.
In Book 5 when Harry gets hit with the Barabbas Curse and Shiro takes it for him so he doesn’t die, what stops Nicodemus from just doing the Barabbas Curse on Harry again?
JB: It takes a while to set it up and get going. You can’t just whip it out and say here’s a curse. There’s got to be blood sacrifice and ritual and all this other stuff that goes along with it. Otherwise he’d just use it every day, for fun. That guy cut me off in traffic. Barabbas Curse. Because he totally would.
I'm also almost positive at some point Jim said that because someone sacrificed them self for Harry, that it can't be cast at him again. Not positive though.
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I'm also almost positive at some point Jim said that because someone sacrificed them self for Harry, that it can't be cast at him again. Not positive though.
Shiro sacrificed himself for Harry back in Death Masks, maybe that is why Cassius's curse wasn't all that effective?
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Different curses Barabas, entropy, death and what Michael said at the end of Battle Ground.
I do like to think that after that particular dam burst Michael was quite unable to issue a single sentence thereafter without it including major profanities, no matter how innocuous the intent.
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Different curses Barabas, entropy, death and what Michael said at the end of Battle Ground.
I do like to think that after that particular dam burst Michael was quite unable to issue a single sentence thereafter without it including major profanities, no matter how innocuous the intent.
It was on the behalf of someone who had just saved the City of Chicago and everyone's bacon and was now being screwed.
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So Nicodemus once a year can use his Barabbas curse. He attempted to kill Dresden with it, but Shiro took Dresden's place. According to the Bible, the people had a choice. Release Jesus who had done nothing wrong, or release Barabbas, a known criminal. The people chose Barabbas. I suspect that Nicodemus is able to choose who lives, or who dies, once a year. In this situation he used it to save Blood on his soul who was smashed to paste, and should not have survived.
The Genoskwa is ridiculously powerful. Add Ursiel and he probably can't be killed outside of some very specific method. I'm saying the block squished him to paste, but he probably wasn't killed by it. Hades is a cave, and the genoskwa was very skilled with earth magic. Maybe ursiel kept him alive and he figured a way out on his own that only he could take.
Hannah is dead Because She is just a vessel for Lasciel. The coin was the special part about her. Unlike the genoskwa, she is just a person without it.
Maybe the Genoskwa gave Hades Ursiel's coin as payment to leave. Hades is a collector, after all, and his collection was just destroyed, robbed, and given away.
We don't actually know how, specifically, big... feet? can be killed. We just know valkryies and einharjar killed them. Those aren't regular opponents, like vikings. Odin and other Norse gods were probably involved.
The naagloshi couldn't really be killed either, except under certain conditions, and even then it could just be a temporary phase shift from corporeal to incorporeal until a power level or time limit is reached. The question of the day...
Who wins in a fight(with no rules because they would both cheat anyway)?
The Naagloshi or the Genoskwa? I'd love to read that!
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The Genoskwa is ridiculously powerful. Add Ursiel and he probably can't be killed outside of some very specific method. I'm saying the block squished him to paste, but he probably wasn't killed by it. Hades is a cave, and the genoskwa was very skilled with earth magic. Maybe ursiel kept him alive and he figured a way out on his own that only he could take.
Hannah is dead Because She is just a vessel for Lasciel. The coin was the special part about her. Unlike the genoskwa, she is just a person without it.
Maybe the Genoskwa gave Hades Ursiel's coin as payment to leave. Hades is a collector, after all, and his collection was just destroyed, robbed, and given away.
We don't actually know how, specifically, big... feet? can be killed. We just know valkryies and einharjar killed them. Those aren't regular opponents, like vikings. Odin and other Norse gods were probably involved.
The naagloshi couldn't really be killed either, except under certain conditions, and even then it could just be a temporary phase shift from corporeal to incorporeal until a power level or time limit is reached. The question of the day...
Who wins in a fight(with no rules because they would both cheat anyway)?
The Naagloshi or the Genoskwa? I'd love to read that!
True but even River Shoulders seemed confused as to how Blood on his soul survived. River Shoulders is older than LTW, and is one of the Forest people, and should have had an idea. So I don't believe it's because he's a Forest person with a Coin.
Does the Genoskwa have a Coin? I'm with the Naagloshi in this fight.
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I'm wondering if it's not something to do with his adopted name, the genoska. Maybe this identified him as a specific being, and called the mantle of it to him? Eh, but the coin does complicate that, supposed to be mortal an all...
Only other thing I can think of directly, is he's no longer separated from with the coin/host and is in truth possessed by the fallen more directly... Making him an immortal?
*Like, did the coin get smashed too?
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The Coins should be nigh indestructible, otherwise you'd think one or two would have gotten the One Ring treatment. Not saying it's easy, but there's been 2000+ years of people trying and 30 Coins.
Of course, destroying a Coin would probably be a bad idea unless your method could also kill the Fallen imprisoned inside. The Spear is the only thing I can think of that would do the trick. Being able to kill anything is it's special power afterall.
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The Coins should be nigh indestructible, otherwise you'd think one or two would have gotten the One Ring treatment. Not saying it's easy, but there's been 2000+ years of people trying and 30 Coins.
Of course, destroying a Coin would probably be a bad idea unless your method could also kill the Fallen imprisoned inside. The Spear is the only thing I can think of that would do the trick. Being able to kill anything is it's special power afterall.
i think the Coins are likely indestructible, short of MASSIVE power levels (Uriel, other archangels, the Mothers level. Above even Mab). There are still 30, right? They never got caught in a fire? Most fires won't melt silver... but a lot of chimney fires will. Your stovepipes are rated well above the melting point of silver - roughly 1000K. No Knight of the Sword, fighting them ever hit a coin with the sword? Those swords cut thru steel doors.. silver is pretty soft.
Nah. The magic of the coin protects it. A bearer could have been next to the Naag Morgan nuked. Coin might be too hot to touch for a few years after the blast, but the coin would have survived.
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Well the eye could kill Uriel if he for some reason chose to let himself be hit (woj). So guess blasting a coin with the eye has a pretty good shot.
The problem is of course if you for some reason only manage to destroy the coin and have now freed the fallen.
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Yeah, the Genoskwa surviving really doesn't make sense. The Earth Magic thing doesn't make sense either because he was killed in a cave, yes -- but specifically in the Ice Cave. I know that Forest People are a lot tougher than humans, but he was literally pasted.
Why wouldn't he have come for Harry by now? It's not like everyone in the weird-side does not know where Harry lives. Harry might be the easiest wizard in the world to find. One need only find the nearest Burger King near the Svart-elf compound.
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One reason could be that while he got out he is still pretty wasted. Surviving something and being able to make an appearance somewhere is not the same as being in shape for at fight. Maybe he will be by the wrestling book :-O
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i think the Coins are likely indestructible, short of MASSIVE power levels (Uriel, other archangels, the Mothers level. Above even Mab). There are still 30, right? They never got caught in a fire? Most fires won't melt silver... but a lot of chimney fires will. Your stovepipes are rated well above the melting point of silver - roughly 1000K. No Knight of the Sword, fighting them ever hit a coin with the sword? Those swords cut thru steel doors.. silver is pretty soft.
Nah. The magic of the coin protects it. A bearer could have been next to the Naag Morgan nuked. Coin might be too hot to touch for a few years after the blast, but the coin would have survived.
all that generally happens in the real world that has specific rules. Hades domain probably doesn't have a greater authority than his own, so if he makes a smashing trap and doesn't specify"the coins cannot be smashed", not sure if it could or could not actually do so. I'm pretty sure the coin's cannot be destroyed specifically because of divine mandate (like, Lucifer and TWG coincidentally colluded to make it so, as opposed to something Lucifer did when trapping them)
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all that generally happens in the real world that has specific rules. Hades domain probably doesn't have a greater authority than his own, so if he makes a smashing trap and doesn't specify"the coins cannot be smashed", not sure if it could or could not actually do so. I'm pretty sure the coin's cannot be destroyed specifically because of divine mandate (like, Lucifer and TWG coincidentally colluded to make it so, as opposed to something Lucifer did when trapping them)
Yeah pretty sure if an Archangel (fallen or otherwise) creates something that contains an angel, destroying it would be near impossible I think.
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Yeah pretty sure if an Archangel (fallen or otherwise) creates something that contains an angel, destroying it would be near impossible I think.
why? By what set of rules? The swords contain angels, they can break very easily under the right circumstances. Don't suppose the coins are any different in that regard. Which means it's never a barrier of power, but of synchronicity. Ideal circumstances, correct sequence, ect. Again assuming those things are still set in stone outside of reality itself.
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why? By what set of rules? The swords contain angels, they can break very easily under the right circumstances. Don't suppose the coins are any different in that regard. Which means it's never a barrier of power, but of synchronicity. Ideal circumstances, correct sequence, ect. Again assuming those things are still set in stone outside of reality itself.
Yes, the Swords can break, but unmaking them is another matter, it takes quite a lot to do that.
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Yes, the Swords can break, but unmaking them is another matter, it takes quite a lot to do that.
but it is doable, it just requires specific circumstances.