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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on October 13, 2021, 07:23:28 PM
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The White Council has come to realize the Black Council is real. They kicked Dresden out knowing that eventually he would be contacted by the Black Council to be recruited. They want Dresden to accept, and go undercover (they will hold something over him to do it)....
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Really? What are they going to hold over him? He has plenty he can hold over them. They touch his daughter and that’s the end of them, ask the Red Court and the Titan if you can find them. In the supernatural world, Harry is a one man nuclear power, they don’t want him inside and they don’t want him outside. Harry is just going to do now what he he feels is best and screw the White Council, and frankly his judgement has been better than theirs. That is what is terrifying the Merlin, that Harry has been right all along, and that he the Merlin has got it wrong.
The Black Council are equally terrified of Harry for pretty much the same reason, they are not going to recruit him.
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The White Council has come to realize the Black Council is real. They kicked Dresden out knowing that eventually he would be contacted by the Black Council to be recruited. They want Dresden to accept, and go undercover (they will hold something over him to do it)....
It would be nice if they let him in on the plan.. ::)
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Nah, they want Harry to join the Black Council.
Look at Harry's allies....
Susan - dead
Murphy - dead
Michael - crippled.
Shiro - dead
Thomas - last seen badly injured, probably dying
... hanging with Harry is like wearing a red shirt on Star Trek - and you are not an engineer.
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Nah, they want Harry to join the Black Council.
Look at Harry's allies....
Susan - dead
Murphy - dead
Michael - crippled.
Shiro - dead
Thomas - last seen badly injured, probably dying
... hanging with Harry is like wearing a red shirt on Star Trek - and you are not an engineer.
Yeah, but two current Holy Knights and one retired Holy Knight very much alive.. Marcone has been on and off, now mostly off ally.. Lara of the White Court, Major General Toot and the minions of the Za'Gard, Mac, Gard, Rashid, Rivershoulders, Eb, Listens to Wind... So Harry isn't down to zero exactly yet.
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I think BG really injected steroids into their fear of Harry. Now they know he has the power of The Warden, The Winter Knight, Consort to the ruler of the White Court, his own fae minions (the display of Toot and Co over the castle), the Spear of Destiny and he's building his reputation as The Wizard of Chicago. That's a significant power base.
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Only Marcone, Anna and Demonreach know he has the Spear. The other immortals on the battlefield probably sensed it and Odin may know through Murphy but no one on the Council saw it in use.
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I mean it could be a Cold War esque Spy novel.
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy.
The only person you trust not to be Black Council is the one not currently on the White Council.
He's outside the Circus so isn't one of the leaks.
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Only Marcone, Anna and Demonreach know he has the Spear. The other immortals on the battlefield probably sensed it and Odin may know through Murphy but no one on the Council saw it in use.
The Council know very little about what Harry actually has, they suspect he has the Eye, but don’t know about The Spear, the Crown, the Placard, the Shroud, Amorrachius, or Bob. They have been looking for Bob for decades as their number 1 dangerous artefact, now number 2, thanks to the Eye, but as Bob would say “that’s flattering, but I don’t even make the top five in Harry’s collection”
I am waiting for the scene where Eb confronting Harry draws on the Blackstaff, only for Harry to reveal the Spear of Destiny “never bring a staff to a Spear Fight.”
There was so much magic in BG, I doubt anyone felt it. Harry purposely didn’t think of it to avoid detection during BG.
They think Harry having the Eye makes him a Nuclear Power, but he already was one, they just didn’t know or suspect it.
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It would be nice if they let him in on the plan.. ::)
Well to make something convincing you would not let him in on it until the last second. So his actions are totally natural. It also allows them to monitor him to see if he actually is Black Council.
Who are his friends on the Council?
McCoy
Gatekeeper
Listens to Wind
Martha Liberty
Lucio who is either captain of the Wardens, or near the top.
I could see where McCoy and the others are using the Councils fear of Dresden to their advantage. Let the Council kick him out, and then monitor if someone tries to contact him. The Grey Council fears the White Council has spies. So allow Harry to get kicked out, and see if someone tries to contact the Starborn, Warden, Winter Knight, and holder of powerful weapons. I mean how could the Black Council not enquire about Harry as an ally with all that power?
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I wouldn't classify Martha Liberty as a friend. More as not generally opposed. She's a swing vote. He had her sometimes, other times not. I don't think she is "He means well, if not always doing it the right way" like Eb or LtW or Rashid, but not assuming the worst like Mai and Langtry. She's a skeptic who will look at each case.
I don't think Luccio has an official role any more. She lost her captaincy when she lost most of her power and her old body. We don't know who is captain now. Could be Carlos, but I think more likely a more senior Warden like Berserkergang. Or Mai's icepop warden that we later saw with the temple dog statue
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I think Harry has three friends on the Senior Council and all were absent when they voted, Eb, Listens, and Rashid..
I think Luccio is still head of the Wardens, I don't remember her being replaced in any of the texts. Though she needed a lot of rehab as of Turn Coat because of what Peabody did to her. At the same time though she needed rehab because of the damage done by Peabody's ink, they'd keep her in her post. Why? Scandal, it was bad enough that they had all been compromised by the ink, they wanted to limit the damage. That is why they were setting Morgan up to be the fall guy for LaFortier's murder even though Harry had proof of his innocence.
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Those three together could sway Martha Liberty, the swing vote.
Luccios position of Captain was built on her being a powerhouse, and the fact only she could make the Wardens Swords, she can do neither now, so I suspect she is in the structure, but not in the field, weakening her influence markedly. Her deputy Morgan is gone, most of the Old Guard too, Carlos is the most trusted of the New Guard, but isn’t a powerhouse. The Wardens are probably at their weakest in centuries. The worry might have been that Harry as a Warden would become the de facto Captain and a candidate for a vacancy on the senior Council.
Thinking on it, the one Wizard most likely to be able make a new Warden Sword in the future is The Warden, Harry. He has the power and has shown he is good at making magical artefacts. He has also had a good look an unravelling, the Spear, The Swords as well as an interest in the nature of magical swords, and Charity is well versed in the physical process of making weapons. Put Harry, Charity and Butters together they could probably make one. Although I suspect they would look a lot like something out of LOTR.
If Harry were to make Warden Swords and mint his own Wardens when the White Council can’t that would be yet another reason for the White Council not to be Wild About Harry, and put him in the de facto Captaincy.
I suspect Harry wouldn’t make himself a Sword, but would make a Warden blade capable of fitting to his staff when he doesn’t need the Spear or risk it in conflict. A Sword is something else to juggle with a staff,
Blasting Rod, and gun. Thinking about it, can’t Harry also make his new Blasting Rod attach to his staff for maximum power? Convert the stored kinetic energy in the staff into a superpowerful blast of fire? But still use it on its own, giving him effectively handgun and rifle options with it.
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I've posted before that I think only Merlin and Ancient Mai were actually able to attend the meeting that expelled Harry. Moreover, given what we know about the Senior Council operates, Merlin controlled the proxies of all non-attending SC members. We KNOW that McCoy, LTW and even Christos (whom I think is not BC, actually) were damaged in the fight. Liberty was there, but we don't know if she was injured.
There was a great deal of controversy at that meeting -- at least judging by the fact that Carlos had been screaming at people during the meeting.
I don't think that Merlin kicked Harry out to flush out the Black Council. I don't think Merlin really wants to admit to the existence of the Black Council, and honestly, it don't see much evidence of their acting up recently. After Harry's "death" it's been Fomor this and Fomor that. Perhaps the Black Council receded to allow the Fomor to occupy everyone's attention. Now that Harry has destroyed the Fomor -- and he did destroy them -- the Black Council will get active again.
I'm inclined to think that Merlin kicked Harry out thinking that he could control Harry by enticing him with re-entry. However, it could just be as simple as not wanting someone with so many divided loyalties in the White Council. After all, Harry is beholden to/mixed up with Heaven, Hell, Odin, Winter X 3 (Mab, Molly, Lea), Summer, Demonreach and the White Court of Vampires through various debts, favors, obligations, grudges, etc.
If you think about it, it's quite a mess. I'm told that networking is a good thing, but perhaps not always.
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re: Making a sword - is Stormbringer too dark ? :) Should go well with the Blackstaff....
I would not necessarily say Harry is definitely the most qualified to make a sword - what about Klaus? He may LIKE to make toys, or made one so you did not EXPECT a weapon, but he sounds like he could make a weapon.
As far as blasting rod vs. staff - I don't think the rod is better than a staff at anything other than portability. You use both as a focus, and possibly the larger staff even focuses better (otherwise why carry the larger one?). Think of a pistol vs. a rifle. Really, with the exception of extremely close quarters (like room to room) a rifle is a far superior weapon in range, power, accuracy, capacity.... I think you carry a rod when you don't want a 5 or 6 foot stick. Though has anyone other than Harry had a rod? I think it is more because Harry, especially early in the series, tends to be firehose like in his focus. See the ghoul outside Camp Kaboom.
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The Merlin could have kicked Harry out for fear of a possible schism in the White Court. What if Harry starts talking Black Court? What will he do? They think he has the Eye. Even the blackstaff was not enough against the Eye. This is like the Darkhallow. The captain of the Wardens was laid out before she even reached the core. So was possibly the strongest hero of the Wardens, Morgan. up comes Harry, riding a T Rex. Goes on by, kicks ass. The side looks lost... the Titan lays Odin down... and Harry jails her, and takes her main gun.
Question is - the Merlin may question if even Eb can take him, now that he has the Eye. Could he look for a hitman, like Kincaid, as a black op? Only against the rules if he gets caught.... and he had a SC decree of death, even if it was suspended. Some emergency powers clause lets him activate it, if word comes out?
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I considered Klaus, but he is a well established wizard, the first person the Senior Council would ask, so obviously they asked him and he said no. Still no new swords. His deadly devices are based on innocuous toys, a sword is not a toy, so it may be some eccentricity on his part that prevents him from acting.
They would not ask Harry, even if they were aware of how extensive his skill set is in this area.
Staffs and blasting rods are both foci, the staff generally but the blasting rod specific to producing fire.
The White Council couldn’t be seen to be contracting it’s enforcement to a third party, it would indicate weakness, doesn’t mean they don’t, I suspect Rudy was in the Merlin’s pocket and they were looking for a mundane legal frame up.
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I don't know if a blasting rod is necessarily fire related, or that is just what Harry uses it for to focus his cast, because fire is somewhat wild and less controllable. A water mage might have a similar device to control a conjured stream of water, like a hose nozzle with spray, jet, mist, etc. settings.
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Harry is a fire guy, fire has the added benefit of cleansing other magic.
However I wonder why no one has thought of modifying light spells so they are coherent, creating a laser. Now that would be an upgrade of the Blasting Rod.
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If Langtry is thinking that he's going to set Harry up as a double agent among the Black Council, he's sorely barking up the wrong tree. They've already made their recruitment pitch and been rebuffed.
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Langtry would like to pretend the Black Council doesn’t exist, he is afraid that it would cause a split to acknowledge it.
However kicking Harry out will cause that split anyway, the first time the White Council hunts a Warlock in North America after BG will be the last.
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There are warlocks and then there are Warlocks. Harry will avoid Council business if he's allowed but I doubt he'd go to bat for a rampaging monster. He'll probably learn about it before the Council does through the Paranet.
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Given Harry, he will likely to try to redeem any Warlock he came across, and the Paranet will alert him as to Warden activity.
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Harry won't summarily execute any warlock he catches and he'll likely try to save some but at the same time if a Soulgaze shows him a rampaging monster, Harry will put him down if he can.
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I have visions of Young Warlocks held in Demonreach under the Contemplation Protocols whilst Georgia shrinks them in Group therapy.
Everybeing taken down by Demonreach experiences the harm they have committed, certainly an important step in healing.
I wonder also however whether the Shroud can cure mental illness? Or whether the Crown of Thorns has some therapeutic purpose? That will still leave the sane but bad, and but more conventional remedies may be applied then.
If the Apocalypse leads to revelation of the Supernatural, then law Enforcement can be prepared and equipped to deal with a Warlock through thorn manacles, water cannon, Fae Ointment etc, jail cells built with a circle outside the cell. Actually I expect CPD to be thoroughly into all of this during Next Book.
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I have visions of Young Warlocks held in Demonreach under the Contemplation Protocols whilst Georgia shrinks them in Group therapy.
Everybeing taken down by Demonreach experiences the harm they have committed, certainly an important step in healing.
This is not a bad theory. I wonder whether Demonreach can actually hold mortals. Thomas and the "British Sounding Guy" are the only candidates to be "mortal" in any sense of the word. Of course, Thomas may or may not qualify as "mortal."
It may be that the White Court are more like the Coin Holders in that its the "demon" that makes them "immortal." Mab considered Thomas "mortal enough" but at the same time she was going to use Justine as leverage for that, and as far as we know Mab's solution might be the same as Nemesis' solution. Mab's solution might have been some kind of Unravelling too. We just don't know.
"British Sounding Guy," well that's about all we know of him. He might be Merlin, King Arthur, some other Wizard, Just Some Guy or a jibbering lunatic demon that simply sounds like a pissed off British Guy (see, Chauncy).
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Demonreach can’t hold mortals permanently, so it could be used for a period of time.
Jim likes to give villains a British Accent especially where it is a telepathic voice with no previous context, I work on the basis Harry has seen far too many movies where the villain is British and as such his brain ascribes them the voice of Christopher Lee.
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Demonreach can’t hold mortals permanently, so it could be used for a period of time.
Jim likes to give villains a British Accent especially where it is a telepathic voice with no previous context, I work on the basis Harry has seen far too many movies where the villain is British and as such his brain ascribes them the voice of Christopher Lee.
Why can't it hold them permanently?
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Why can't it hold them permanently?
WOJ
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Harry is a fire guy, fire has the added benefit of cleansing other magic.
However I wonder why no one has thought of modifying light spells so they are coherent, creating a laser. Now that would be an upgrade of the Blasting Rod.
if containing fire is hard - containing LIGHT?
They aren't real technical folks.... Harry likely thinks thermal blooming is a hothouse orchid....
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Harry is actually a bit of a science nerd and argues in D & D about the incorrect use of fire. A physical manifestation of energy in the real world still obeys the law of physics and Harry knows this, personally as it nearly cost him a hand.
Harry already has his spell for generating an intense burning ball of light energy, he just needs to figure out how to make that coherent and directional hence the blasting rod.
Really what Harry needs to do is to make a blasting rod capable of emitting energy tuneable across the electromagnetic spectrum and coherently in the x-ray or ultraviolet spectrum. An X-ray laser requires a nuclear bomb to pump it up, I suspect the Eye was in fact a portable X-Ray laser generator pumped by magic and hate. Harry wouldn’t be able to generate anything like that power, but I suspect it might get through Eb’s shield.
Fun fact the US Military have a project exploring x-ray lasers it’s called Project Excalibur. Nice coincidence.
Being able to generate microwaves would also be of benefit, he can’t use a conventional microwave oven.
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IIRC his argument on fire and D&D is that the OLD versions I played, a fireball was a 20 foot radius sphere. If it was cast into a small room of relatively noncombustible walls and ceiling and floor (like a stone dungeon) it would squirt out any openings (doors etc) like a pressure wave. When he was playing they stood just outside the radius - knowing it would only come 20' - any fire that would have been redirected in the old days was ignored. Harry thought the fire should be funneled out. Real life analogy - if you set off a pistol cartridge outside the breech, the bullet goes SOMEWHAT forward, but not NEARLY as fast or far as if the explosion was contained and directed down the barrel.
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Fear. Fear of what has done. Fear of what he may be.