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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on April 12, 2021, 03:30:37 AM
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So what are your idea's on characters being different in the alternate reality?
Susan - She's alive, and full on Red Court, head of the Red Court in Chicago
Michael - He fell at Bianca's party, and offered as a gift to Mavra. She turns him Black Court as revenge
Marcone - Knight of the Cross
Murphy - She and Marcone are lovers
Harry - Full on necromancer. He empowers himself with shades.
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If you go with how Jim thinks its a good time to torture his readers and Harry: Murphy married to Rudolph happily at that maybe with kids. Maggie as the heir to Susan and Harry's Court in Chicago. Evil Harry let's his inner Bob out and whores himself out to the supernatural women of the city.
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If you follow the classics, then Dresden will see three major changes --- all changes that make for a very painful realization for Dresden.
1) One close ally who is now an enemy
2) One deadly enemy who must be an ally
3) One treasured companion was dead is now alive
4) One friend who is changed for the worse
5) Someone new who he learns a great deal about --- so that he can show off in a later book :)
The ally that is an enemy is almost certainly Michael, but honestly that is probably too simple as a Knight of the Cross would be able to tell that this Dresden is now their Dresden. I would argue that the ally who is now an enemy is Murphy - which also nicely ties up #3 as well. And Murphy would be a very dangerous foe for Dresden for many reasons. You can make the case that a Susan as Red Court vamp would make a good enemy as well, but it feels weaker.
The enemy who may be an ally. Again the obvious answer is Marcone, but also again that is too simple. To really make this hurt, the ally has to be a serious enemy. That means you are looking at Lashiel or Nickodemus - both would make very painful allies. Other possibilities (Maeve, Lily, Merlin, Red King -- simply do not have the emotional connection to make this alliance BURN Dresden's soul.
Treasured companion now alive is obviously Susan or Murphy - and you have already read why I think it would be Murphy.
Friend changed for the worse is most obviously Molly, except the author has already put Dresden through a lot of heartache related to Molly. A case can be made that Charity could be the one that turned in a dark direction if the change resulted in Michael's death, especially if Dresden is at fault.
Somebody new is pure speculation, but I think this would be a great book to tell us a lot about the federal agency focused on the supernatural. And the payback in later books when Dresden shows off would be golden.
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I don't see Marcone becoming a Knight, that idea has always been weird to me.
If anything I guess he'll be part of a Supervillain Alliance with Alt!Harry and some of the other recurring villains of the story that have teamed up to do something about the fact that the less-evil factions are all broken and/or subverted at this point.
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Honestly I expect either Rudolph or Mavra to be the one that Harry has to team up with in Mirror Mirror.
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He will team up with Uriel, who is the same Uriel in all universes, but as he is Uriel he can do virtually nothing in all of those universes. The exception is to intercede with Mab Prime and Alt Mab, who is a different Mab but knows of and can communicate with Mab Prime. WOJ has confirmed this.
Harry will therefore have two Mab’s annoyed with him at the same time.
“Mab was beside herself in fury” Harry said “literally, unfortunately”
Harry is a much prized Winter Knight by Mab, what if he is so highly prized AltMab wants to keep him? They would stalemate each other keeping Harry trapped, his only option to agree to do something for AltMab so she relents. He has to recruit Alt Harry as her Winter Knight, make him agree to it by his free will.
And we all know what happens when someone makes Harry try to do something he doesn’t want to do. Harry has to do the impossible, change AltHarry’s mind.
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Murphy and Marcone are lovers!?
LOL. I don't think so, but it would certainly get Harry PO'd if it happened.
Murphy will be Alt-Harry's enemy.
Nicodemus will be Alt-Harry's ally.
Susan is full Red Court. Yes
Michael is dead. Yes, but not Black Court.
Thomas is the Winter Knight and is going totally evil or maybe is all the way there when Harry arrives.
Marcone: Something has radically changed him, but KotC seems too large a stretch for me.
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Murphy and Marcone are lovers!?
LOL. I don't think so, but it would certainly get Harry PO'd if it happened.
Murphy worked with Marcone during the time of Ghost Story. Imagine going many years back to when Alternate Harry made a bad choice. Murphy may have started working with Marcone many years before. After working with him for that long? Who knows where that could lead.
Marcone: Something has radically changed him, but KotC seems too large a stretch for me.
Murphy :).. I mean think about it. things are supposed to be the opposite in this reality... Marcone is a Denarian now. The flip side is he'd be a KoTC.
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Honestly I expect either Rudolph or Mavra to be the one that Harry has to team up with in Mirror Mirror.
Could have swore it was hinted he'd be working with Mavra... I don't know if it was a woj or what. I could see it being Mavra though. One of Dresden's possible powerups was to go full on Necromancer according to Jim. Mavra and her ilk fear that kind of magic. Maybe alternate Dresden is a Necromancer, and is more than capable of enslaving her. Hell maybe he can drain the very thing that keeps her alive (if you can call it that) for the purpose of empowering himself.
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Marcone is a police officer.
Murphy is happily married to Rich, has 7 children with him and wears cute dresses with flower print.
Michael and Charity are Denarians. They don't have any children.
Nicodemus has never picked up a coin and therefore is long dead. Anyway, the book isn't divisible by 5, so he won't be in there.
Uriel is the same.
Mab is the head of the wizards.
Ancient Mai is Winter Queen.
Harry's mother is still alive and with Lord Thomas Raith who leads the defense of the Outer Gates with all the other White Court Vampires. Thomas has killed his father a long time ago and became Vampire king himself.
I have no idea where I would put Harry or Ebenezar. I just blurted out what was in my head here, lol.
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Marcone is a police officer.
Murphy is happily married to Rich, has 7 children with him and wears cute dresses with flower print.
Michael and Charity are Denarians. They don't have any children.
Nicodemus has never picked up a coin and therefore is long dead. Anyway, the book isn't divisible by 5, so he won't be in there.
Uriel is the same.
Mab is the head of the wizards.
Ancient Mai is Winter Queen.
Harry's mother is still alive and with Lord Thomas Raith who leads the defense of the Outer Gates with all the other White Court Vampires. Thomas has killed his father a long time ago and became Vampire king himself.
I have no idea where I would put Harry or Ebenezar. I just blurted out what was in my head here, lol.
The main problem with these alternate character traits is that Jim has said that all the changes in the Mirror Mirror world will spring from Harry having made a single different choice in Grave Peril.
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The main problem with these alternate character traits is that Jim has said that all the changes in the Mirror Mirror world will spring from Harry having made a single different choice in Grave Peril.
Oh. Damn. You're right. I didn't think of that.
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Could have swore it was hinted he'd be working with Mavra... I don't know if it was a woj or what. I could see it being Mavra though. One of Dresden's possible powerups was to go full on Necromancer according to Jim. Mavra and her ilk fear that kind of magic. Maybe alternate Dresden is a Necromancer, and is more than capable of enslaving her. Hell maybe he can drain the very thing that keeps her alive (if you can call it that) for the purpose of empowering himself.
I remember that in Dead Beat, Bob said that Kemmler was buddies with most of the vampire courts. So, if Alt-Harry has become a necromancer it might make sense that he is working with Mavra. If that is what happens, then it's possible that our Harry might learn more about the Black Court and Drakul in particular.
I'm expecting a scene or two where Harry disguises himself as Alt-Harry. It happened in the original Star Trek episode, so I'm guessing Jim won't pass up an opportunity to do the same thing in his Mirror Mirror story. In that case Harry could actually meet Drakul and get some juicy information first hand.
IMO, The only other interesting character that Harry doesn't have much information on is Cowl. So I could see Alt-Harry working with him.
However, dangerous as Cowl may be, Mavra is far creepier and is therefore a better dramatic choice for Alt-Harry to have as an ally.
Here's something I don't think anyone has mentioned. Wizard Peabody is still alive and a member of the White Council. Warden Morgan is probably dead and the White Council is losing the war with Red Court.
Also, before finding a way to go home I would guess that Harry would want to set things right to the degree that he can. He'll have to find a way to expose Peabody, redeem either Thomas or Molly, depending on which one is still alive and for personal reasons find time to fit in a soulgaze with Murphy.
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Could have swore it was hinted he'd be working with Mavra... I don't know if it was a woj or what. I could see it being Mavra though. One of Dresden's possible powerups was to go full on Necromancer according to Jim. Mavra and her ilk fear that kind of magic. Maybe alternate Dresden is a Necromancer, and is more than capable of enslaving her. Hell maybe he can drain the very thing that keeps her alive (if you can call it that) for the purpose of empowering himself.
Well one of the Harrys is a fast ally of Mavra by WoJ, but it doesn't say which one, could easily spin that into a really awkward teamup.
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If Harry is a full blown necromancy he probably used Kemmler’s book to enthrall Mavra
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Agree on married Murph with kids in Grandma's cottage. Rudolph would twist that knife.
Shiro as an enemy.
Mavra as a buddy.
Various bits I could see:
Vamp Susan helping our Harry over a picture of her mother as a little girl with Harry's chin.
Mavra revealing a vulnerability.
Mab assisting because he retains the Knight mantle from our reality, and she still wants a Dresden Knight- her price to help is knowledge of how.
Lea vouching for him because he knows about the ruby.
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The Alphas have gone feral or ran into something they couldn't handle so they are either bitter and angry or completely on the dark side.
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The Alphas have gone feral or ran into something they couldn't handle so they are either bitter and angry or completely on the dark side.
Dresden turned them into permanent wolves, using them as protection..... Has killed many wardens with them.
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IMO, The only other interesting character that Harry doesn't have much information on is Cowl. So I could see Alt-Harry working with him.
I wonder if Harry's able to work with Cowl, would he learn of who Cowl really is? (And bring this knowledge back to his own timeline...)
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Like the idea of Harry gaining knowledge so he might be prepared for the future, will the knowledge transfer over? Sure the character's names will be the same but will every detail be the same? With people just the opposite of what they are now ("good character" becomes "bad character")? Also, what about the neutral people?
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I wonder if Harry's able to work with Cowl, would he learn of who Cowl really is? (And bring this knowledge back to his own timeline...)
I definitely suspect that something along those lines will happen. My guess is that in the MM universe the 'Black Council' will be doing a lot less of the Cloak and Dagger routine due to the White Council being Destroyed and/or Crippled, the Red Court still being a power, Raith back in control of the White Court, etc.
Basically everything going to shit so that Harry knows what happens if he fails.
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Like the idea of Harry gaining knowledge so he might be prepared for the future, will the knowledge transfer over? Sure the character's names will be the same but will every detail be the same? With people just the opposite of what they are now ("good character" becomes "bad character")? Also, what about the neutral people?
The point is more that Harry himself is different, plus the general lit concept of chaos theory. So anyone Harry has interacted with significantly. Maeve may be back, Slade might be Winter Knight. No Evil Bob. Butters is dead or just a coroner.
It's why I favor how he killed Bianca changing to a violation of the Accords. No duel with Ortega. No friendship with the Archive. No followup at Shed's Aquarium. No Soulfire. Lots of branches become viable or fall away when links in chains alter.
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Dresden turned them into permanent wolves, using them as protection..... Has killed many wardens with them.
That's vile and probably something an evil Harry would do.
I also hope we get MM Morgan and our Harry have a heart to heart. (I also want to see Morgan cut loose on a Battlefield, I'm still mad we won't get that)
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That's vile and probably something an evil Harry would do.
I also hope we get MM Morgan and our Harry have a heart to heart. (I also want to see Morgan cut loose on a Battlefield, I'm still mad we won't get that)
My guess is that MM Harry will kill MM Morgan when fighting our Dresden. I think Jim will use characters we know, and show MM Harry destroying them just to give an idea of how powerful he is.
Maybe not though :). It would be cool if Harry got one of those badass swords that the Wardens have though, and brought it back with him.
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My guess is that MM Harry will kill MM Morgan when fighting our Dresden. I think Jim will use characters we know, and show MM Harry destroying them just to give an idea of how powerful he is.
Maybe not though :). It would be cool if Harry got one of those badass swords that the Wardens have though, and brought it back with him.
they are probably tailored to the individual otherwise there would not be a shortage of them with all the wardens dying in the war against the vampires.
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they are probably tailored to the individual otherwise there would not be a shortage of them with all the wardens dying in the war against the vampires.
Depending on how the war goes Luccio may make one for our Harry. The only reason she can't make them anymore is because of Corpsetaker swapping bodies.
My guess is that MM Harry will kill MM Morgan when fighting our Dresden. I think Jim will use characters we know, and show MM Harry destroying them just to give an idea of how powerful he is.
Maybe not though :). It would be cool if Harry got one of those badass swords that the Wardens have though, and brought it back with him.
Yeah, there's going to be some Jobbing going on in MM. Someone is going to lose a fight to prove that MM Harry is a monster.
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Depending on how the war goes Luccio may make one for our Harry. The only reason she can't make them anymore is because of Corpsetaker swapping bodies.
Yeah, there's going to be some Jobbing going on in MM. Someone is going to lose a fight to prove that MM Harry is a monster.
But maybe our Harry will save him which will confuse the hell out of everyone.
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Molly as alt-Morgan's fanatical apprentice. Joined the Wardens to get revenge for -Harry failing Michael and leading to his death.
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Molly as alt-Morgan's fanatical apprentice. Joined the Wardens to get revenge for -Harry failing Michael and leading to his death.
Oh I could see this happening.
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The main problem with these alternate character traits is that Jim has said that all the changes in the Mirror Mirror world will spring from Harry having made a single different choice in Grave Peril.
My vote for the root cause is Harry does not misuse Amoracchius, so the Leanansidhe cannot take it. As a result, Michael doesn't come to Bianca's ball, and everything goes downhill from there.
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Specifically Jim said the decision Harry made at the end of Grave Peril is what triggered the divergence, so the most likely candidate is imho killing Bianca and her Court.
Which means the Red Court don't go to War prematurely and probably perform a successful decapitation strike on the White Council.
So yeah, my guess for MMverse is that we'll see the Red Court in ascendancy, with the White Council a broken shell, probably run openly by either Cowl or a patsy, and Evil!Harry on the run, working with a bunch of his enemies from main timeline.
It'll be a little 'this is the world if you fail' for Harry.
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I misplaced Grave Peril so I can't quote Harry, but to me it is strongly worded that his Choice was choosing to back up Michael, rather than leave with Susan. I believe that Mirror Mirror Harry made the other choice. To leave safely with Susan while Michael goes for the Sword himself.
What do I think happened as a result?
1. I think it's likely Michael gets killed, or turned into a Black Court vamp my Mavra for revenge.
2. Because Harry leaves, he doesn't get his power back like Prime Harry did.
So Harry will lose one of his moral compasses, and he will be living scared, trying to protect the woman he loves. This is where he turns dark, I think. He needs to find a way to increase his power to keep Susan safe. He will begin tapping into dark magic to do that. My guess is that he starts using necromancy to feed on shades the way Kemmler did. Not only will he get to his previous power level, but he will surpass it.
What will happen to Susan? I'm not sure. She could get killed anyways because Harry couldn't protect her, or she might be turned into a full Red Court vamp, or I think she could leave him as he changes into someone else through dark magic. Bianca will still be alive, and will have continued going after Harry for revenge. She could still be alive in the series, or new super charged Dresden nuked her, and she's gone.
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I don't think that decision is close enough to the end of GP to qualify, but sometimes Jim isn't as precise as we like to give him credit for.
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I don't think that decision is close enough to the end of GP to qualify, but sometimes Jim isn't as precise as we like to give him credit for.
I thought he said it took place during Bianca's Ball?
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If you follow the classics, then Dresden will see three major changes --- all changes that make for a very painful realization for Dresden.
1) One close ally who is now an enemy
2) One deadly enemy who must be an ally
3) One treasured companion was dead is now alive
4) One friend who is changed for the worse
5) Someone new who he learns a great deal about --- so that he can show off in a later book :)
Michael is the ally that is now an enemy. Michael will be a Blampire or Rampire.
Mirror Harry works with Marcone.
Who was dead and is alive in the Mirrorverse. Clearly, this is Murphy.
One friend who is changed for the worse. Molly, who is either a warlock and on the run or is dead.
Someone he learns a great deal about will be Chandler. Jim dropped a big hint that we'll see Chandler again in the Mirrorverse.
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Little Harry, his name sake that he saved when he saved the pregnant Charity, like his older sister, has talent and is more pure warlock than Molly ever was. He could even be on his way to becoming the next Kemmler.. So for the sake of mankind, Harry go back and changes things so though he still saves Charity, she loses the baby..
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Mirrorverse Teams
Team Dresden
- Harry Dresden, necromancer, Baron of Chicago, noose-bearer
- Molly Carpenter, mind-mage
- Rat, dark twisted temple dog gifted to Harry by Mavra
- Li Xian, ghoul, Dresden's drummer
- Nelson, magically enhanced human, Molly's drummer
- Evil Bob, full entity
- Alfred
- Street Wolves, local pack of lycanthropes
- Grevane, necromancer, loose ally
- Darth Wannabe and fellow dark mages
- Aristedes and subordinate humans
- Mavra, black Court vampire, liaison with Black Court
- Susan Rodriguez, red Court leader in Chicago, liaison with Red Court
- Lea-Nemesis, helps Harry with Outsider magic
- Outsiders, summoned and trapped in Demonreach
- Inari Raith, liaison with White Court under Lord Raith
- Lacuna, captain of Harry's little folk forces
- Francisca Garcia/Lasciel, liaison with Denarians
Team Chicago
- Karrin Murphy, owner of Fidelacchius
- John Marcone, leader of Chicago Resistance
- Sarissa, Winter liaison
- Alphas, local werewolf pack
- Lara Raith, former quasi-ally of Harry's that turned as he went darker and she rebelled against her father
- Agent Barry Tilly
- Mac, back in
- Mortimer Lindquist, protects shades from Harry consuming them
- Fitz, escaped Aristedes, apprentices with Lindquist
- Special Investigations
- Toot-Toot, allied with Karrin when Harry went too dark
- Hendricks
- Gard
- Mister
Team Winter
- Mother Winter
- Mab
- Maeve, uninfected
- Thomas Raith, Winter Knight
Team Summer
- Mother Summer
- Titania
- Lily
- Ace, Summer Knight
Deceased
- Michael Carpenter
- Waldo Butters
- Fix
- Justine
- Most of the White Council
- Nicodemus
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Mirrorverse Teams
Team Dresden
- Harry Dresden, necromancer, Baron of Chicago, noose-bearer
- Molly Carpenter, mind-mage
- Rat, dark twisted temple dog gifted to Harry by Mavra
- Li Xian, ghoul, Dresden's drummer
- Nelson, magically enhanced human, Molly's drummer
- Evil Bob, full entity
- Alfred
- Street Wolves, local pack of lycanthropes
- Grevane, necromancer, loose ally
- Darth Wannabe and fellow dark mages
- Aristedes and subordinate humans
- Mavra, black Court vampire, liaison with Black Court
- Susan Rodriguez, red Court leader in Chicago, liaison with Red Court
- Lea-Nemesis, helps Harry with Outsider magic
- Outsiders, summoned and trapped in Demonreach
- Inari Raith, liaison with White Court under Lord Raith
- Lacuna, captain of Harry's little folk forces
- Francisca Garcia/Lasciel, liaison with Denarians
Team Chicago
- Karrin Murphy, owner of Fidelacchius
- John Marcone, leader of Chicago Resistance
- Sarissa, Winter liaison
- Alphas, local werewolf pack
- Lara Raith, former quasi-ally of Harry's that turned as he went darker and she rebelled against her father
- Agent Barry Tilly
- Mac, back in
- Mortimer Lindquist, protects shades from Harry consuming them
- Fitz, escaped Aristedes, apprentices with Lindquist
- Special Investigations
- Toot-Toot, allied with Karrin when Harry went too dark
- Hendricks
- Gard
- Mister
Team Winter
- Mother Winter
- Mab
- Maeve, uninfected
- Thomas Raith, Winter Knight
Team Summer
- Mother Summer
- Titania
- Lily
- Ace, Summer Knight
Deceased
- Michael Carpenter
- Waldo Butters
- Fix
- Justine
- Most of the White Council
- Nicodemus
What do you think the choice he made that altered things?
Michael is the ally that is now an enemy. Michael will be a Blampire or Rampire.
Very well could be.
Mirror Harry works with Marcone.
I think the opposite. Marcone is the good guy, Harry the bad
Who was dead and is alive in the Mirrorverse. Clearly, this is Murphy.
I think Susan & Murphy
One friend who is changed for the worse. Molly, who is either a warlock and on the run or is dead.
Harry visits Thomas's grave. He died trying to do the right thing. Or he's the new leader of the White Court and just like his father, who he killed. Molly could very well be a warlock, or maybe a warden under the training of Morgan is hunting Harry.
Someone he learns a great deal about will be Chandler. Jim dropped a big hint that we'll see Chandler again in the Mirrorverse.
Could be darn interesting.
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What do you think the choice he made that altered things?
My guess is that Harry didn't say he loved Susan in the basement of Bianca's mansion. She went feral, knocked him out but didn't kill him because of the poison in his blood, so she killed Justine instead.
Upon waking up, Harry got out and headed upstairs to find Susan fully turned with Bianca. He couldn't kill Susan, so he walked away rather than fighting.
I also like to think he still beat the Nightmare while unconscious, and ate his power. By not using it to destroy the mansion, is stayed within him, partially corrupting him.
I also think Bianca could have sent footage of Harry's attack at the party to the White Council, which declared him a full warlock. Since the place wasn't completely destroyed like it was in GP, security footage might have survived.
Thus Harry starts on the dark path with isolation and regret while being hunted by everyone.
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My guess is that Harry didn't say he loved Susan in the basement of Bianca's mansion. She went feral, knocked him out but didn't kill him because of the poison in his blood, so she killed Justine instead.
Upon waking up, Harry got out and headed upstairs to find Susan fully turned with Bianca. He couldn't kill Susan, so he walked away rather than fighting.
I also like to think he still beat the Nightmare while unconscious, and ate his power. By not using it to destroy the mansion, is stayed within him, partially corrupting him.
I also think Bianca could have sent footage of Harry's attack at the party to the White Council, which declared him a full warlock. Since the place wasn't completely destroyed like it was in GP, security footage might have survived.
Thus Harry starts on the dark path with isolation and regret while being hunted by everyone.
Oh that's a great theory. I don't think he beat the nightmare. He's lost his love, and his power. Bianca wants him to live a long life like this, and lets him leave. He swears to himself that he will do whatever it takes to make her pay. He asks Bob how he can charge up his power in a hurry. Bob refuses to tell until Harry makes it an order. It's there that he begins tapping into Necromancy. He must start small in his weakened state, just a single shade at a time, but consumes more, and more. Not only does he gain all his power back, he surpasses it.
As for his standing with the White Council. I don't know if he will be declared a warlock. I think he gets kicked out for violating the Accords. It's later on that they discover he's using necromancy that they go after him, or maybe he nukes Bianca's place to get revenge resulting in many casualties, including mortal security. White Council finds out, deems him a warlock.
I also wonder if Harry will be straight up evil, or will he be more like the Harry we wished he would be sometimes (smarter, doesn't hold back against enemies). Maybe he see's killing other Harry's as not murder because it's just him lol
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My guess is that Harry didn't say he loved Susan in the basement of Bianca's mansion. She went feral, knocked him out but didn't kill him because of the poison in his blood, so she killed Justine instead.
Upon waking up, Harry got out and headed upstairs to find Susan fully turned with Bianca. He couldn't kill Susan, so he walked away rather than fighting.
I also like to think he still beat the Nightmare while unconscious, and ate his power. By not using it to destroy the mansion, is stayed within him, partially corrupting him.
I also think Bianca could have sent footage of Harry's attack at the party to the White Council, which declared him a full warlock. Since the place wasn't completely destroyed like it was in GP, security footage might have survived.
Thus Harry starts on the dark path with isolation and regret while being hunted by everyone.
I think that’s pretty spot on. It would also ruin any chance that Thomas would be Harry’s ally, so probably Papa Raith is still in charge of the White Court.
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I have no idea of the specific choice. There are a few at the end. But I think I know what kind of choice it will be. Bianca put it on the headstone.
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Here's something I don't think anyone has mentioned. Wizard Peabody is still alive and a member of the White Council. Warden Morgan is probably dead and the White Council is losing the war with Red Court.
Hopefully not. It would mess Harry up way more if Molly was Morgan's apprentice, with them united in blaming Harry for Michael and Luccio dying, and fanatical about revenge.
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Hopefully not. It would mess Harry up way more if Molly was Morgan's apprentice, with them united in blaming Harry for Michael and Luccio dying, and fanatical about revenge.
I think it will be more subtle than that, like Harry not trying to kill Lea with the Sword of Love losing it so that she could trade it for the infected Knife... I can see Harry blaming himself fot all that happened after at the party on that moment, if only he hadn't tried to use a Holy Sword like that, then things would be so much better.. In Wonderful Life fashion, no in many ways it would be a lot worse... As in Susan still would have stolen the invite, Harry wouldn't have gone to the party, Susan still might have been food and or fully turned when the Reds realized she had crashed the party.. Little Maggie for starters would never have been born.. Shall we make a list? Oh and I can see Uriel arranging all of the above.
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So what are your idea's on characters being different in the alternate reality?
Susan - She's alive, and full on Red Court, head of the Red Court in Chicago
Michael - He fell at Bianca's party, and offered as a gift to Mavra. She turns him Black Court as revenge
Marcone - Knight of the Cross
Murphy - She and Marcone are lovers
Harry - Full on necromancer. He empowers himself with shades.
Such a fun topic!!
Harry - Denarian and completely simpatico with Lasciel.
Marcone - Knight of the Cross (This is just too good not to use).
Murphy - Dead from the Loup Garou.
Maggie - No Maggie, Harry didn't show up in time.
Susan - Still alive and still an unturned Red Court vamp, will never forgive Harry for saving Maggie (hey, how else to torture Harry even more?)
Michael - Black Court vamp (such a great idea)
Molly - a crazy mind controlling bad guy still on the run from the white council
Morgan - still dead, but took all the blame
Peabody - still slowly infecting the White Council's minds with his special ink
The Archive - I don't know how she'd be different, but she'd be an interesting character in the story.
Rudolph is a good guy and is trying to help Harry (talk about torture)
The ThreeEye drug problem is out of control in Chicago...
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Such a fun topic!!
Harry - Denarian and completely simpatico with Lasciel.
Marcone - Knight of the Cross (This is just too good not to use).
Murphy - Dead from the Loup Garou.
Maggie - No Maggie, Harry didn't show up in time.
Susan - Still alive and still an unturned Red Court vamp, will never forgive Harry for saving Maggie (hey, how else to torture Harry even more?)
Michael - Black Court vamp (such a great idea)
Molly - a crazy mind controlling bad guy still on the run from the white council
Morgan - still dead, but took all the blame
Peabody - still slowly infecting the White Council's minds with his special ink
The Archive - I don't know how she'd be different, but she'd be an interesting character in the story.
Rudolph is a good guy and is trying to help Harry (talk about torture)
The ThreeEye drug problem is out of control in Chicago...
The Three Eye problem has to be solved and Murphy cannot be dead from the Loup Garou. The divergence happens after those events.
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Missed someone out from your list
Chandler Prime.
Jim mentioned in the Dragoncon Q &A he will be in MM, Drakul sent him to the darkest time-line.
Chandler is an expert on history and time travel, so I expect he will be playing a Basil Exposition role, perhaps not powerful enough himself to get back, but then Harry can bring him back to the Prime timeline, which will have all sorts of ramifications, as I doubt he would see eye to eye with the White Council after experiencing a year in the darkest time-line. Indeed it may be I speculate that Chandler sets up Alt-Harry with Harry Prime to stop him and get home from what may be a decaying time-line, about to be erased by the White God before it falls to the Outsiders imperilling all of reality, a fate Harry has to avoid in the Prime timeline. Harry has connections to multiversal beings aware of their doppelgängers like Mab, and the Mother’s as well as beings like Mr Sunshine who exist across the Multiverse as a single entity. Put the two together and you have an exploration of the multiverse, the Outside and the Prime universes place guarding against the Outsiders as the best hope of winning this cycle.
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Missed someone out from your list
Chandler Prime.
Jim mentioned in the Dragoncon Q &A he will be in MM, Drakul sent him to the darkest time-line.
Chandler is an expert on history and time travel, so I expect he will be playing a Basil Exposition role, perhaps not powerful enough himself to get back, but then Harry can bring him back to the Prime timeline, which will have all sorts of ramifications, as I doubt he would see eye to eye with the White Council after experiencing a year in the darkest time-line. Indeed it may be I speculate that Chandler sets up Alt-Harry with Harry Prime to stop him and get home from what may be a decaying time-line, about to be erased by the White God before it falls to the Outsiders imperilling all of reality, a fate Harry has to avoid in the Prime timeline. Harry has connections to multiversal beings aware of their doppelgängers like Mab, and the Mother’s as well as beings like Mr Sunshine who exist across the Multiverse as a single entity. Put the two together and you have an exploration of the multiverse, the Outside and the Prime universes place guarding against the Outsiders as the best hope of winning this cycle.
I think so too, I also think Chandler once back will become Harry's backup. It makes sense, Murphy is gone, Thomas will be out for a long time and may never return, I don't trust Lara, [she has her own agenda], Michael physically except when archangels takes a risk for him isn't up to it, and yeah, while Sanya and Butters are a great help, the Holy Knights have more to do than playing backup for Harry all of the time, so that leaves Chandler. He has all the skills, he might be just a bit grateful to Harry for getting him home, and I doubt he will be welcomed or feel comfortable in the White Council or among his fellow Wardens. Now he may betray Harry at some point, but I don't think so.
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A couple of other things, Harry has or should have access to academic resources Chandler would kill for.
1. Bob who is probably seventh on the list of magical artefacts most wanted by the White Council (after the Eye, The Spear, the Grail, the True Shroud, the Placard, and Excalibur, boy does Harry have some explaining to do as to why he as (almost) all the toys)
2. Demonreach itself
3. Papa Raith’s magical library, likely to contain things the White Council thought were long gone. I would expect that Lara to gift this to Harry (after scanning it in and making it wizard proof).
Harry has used others as his sounding board, but most are either dead, alienated or Harry has outgrown them in his current need.
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Harry has used others as his sounding board, but most are either dead, alienated or Harry has outgrown them in his current need.
I don't think Harry will ever be able to fully trust Lara, that makes her a poor sounding board.
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Which is why Chandler would ne necessary.
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Do we know for sure Harry will be going to the mirrorverse alone? Logically it seems likely, but if he's with someone else (like standing at the altar for his wedding) and some magical thing kicks in, and someone close to him (like Lara or his best man or the minister) grabs for him, could they be pulled in as well?
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Do we know for sure Harry will be going to the mirrorverse alone? Logically it seems likely, but if he's with someone else (like standing at the altar for his wedding) and some magical thing kicks in, and someone close to him (like Lara or his best man or the minister) grabs for him, could they be pulled in as well?
We know he's going to be summoned by negaHarry to be killed in his place. I think that's got to be a solo trip tbh. None of the other summonings we've seen have included multiple beings. Besides, I think that you'd need a True Name for a mortal to summon another mortal across realities, much less have the magical oomph to pull in someone else for the ride.
primeChandler will be the touchstone for Harry to get real information about the mirror reality and what's different. Also, probably one to give him inside information on who's gunning for him suddenly in the WC to call to vote him out.
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We know he's going to be summoned by negaHarry to be killed in his place. I think that's got to be a solo trip tbh. None of the other summonings we've seen have included multiple beings. Besides, I think that you'd need a True Name for a mortal to summon another mortal across realities, much less have the magical oomph to pull in someone else for the ride.
primeChandler will be the touchstone for Harry to get real information about the mirror reality and what's different. Also, probably one to give him inside information on who's gunning for him suddenly in the WC to call to vote him out.
I agree for the most part, but the only inter-reality travel we've seen was via a gateway (a la Drakul). So imagining it as a vortex isn't out of the realm of possibility.
I could also see it as something building up around him, and someone with super strength (Lara perhaps) grabbing him tight and then getting pulled along.
Not that I think that'll happen, but it makes me wonder if he might not go alone.
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I predict in Mirror Mirror we will see the early death of yet another tuxedo at the hands of Harry.
Harry will be without his trademark duster, staff, etc, Jim can have fun with Harry, for example him turning an hockey stick into an improvised staff...... perhaps using a magic marker for the runes.....
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I had a horrible Mirror Mirror thought this morning.
Harry's the bad guy in the MM universe and he summons our Harry to die in his place in a confrontation with some big bad.
I've already said that in MMverse, Molly is either dead or a warlock. What if she's a warlock and still is Harry's apprentice?
In their soul gaze, there was one image of Molly with a scarred cheek, wearing the robe of a warden of the White Council. Several people have theorized that the scar on her cheek was from the mini-fireball that Harry used to teach her the price of going into danger unprepared. In our universe, Molly couldn't stop Harry from moving the fireball closer to her face and collapsed when she failed. Our Harry had mercy and stopped the fireball. But evil Harry probably wouldn't.
I had a theory that the soulgaze was accurate and prophetic. We were going to show different scenes from different point in every phase of Molly's life. So, in that image with the scarred cheek and the warden cloak, everyone assumed she was a warden.
What if the cloak wasn't a vestment of office, but a trophy?
Let's face it. At one point it would be easy to imagine Molly going all Harley Quinn. She already had the hair color and the tattoos. The mind magic and manipulating the minds of others would do for the crazy.
So, evil Harry takes Molly for an apprentice after she manifests magic. Perhaps luring in by promising revenge upon the vamps responsible for Michael's death. Our Harry might get to see a Harry and Molly where Harry didn't shut Molly down when she offered herself to him when he took her for an apprentice.
Hell, if MM Molly isn't batshit crazy, he might get a frank point of view from the MM Molly on how a Harry and Molly relationship might work.
Not that Harry and Molly is going to work in our universe when Molly is wearing the Winter Lady mantle.
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I've already said that in MMverse, Molly is either dead or a warlock. What if she's a warlock and still is Harry's apprentice?
Or not, in this universe Molly never fully dropped her warlock status, she slipped back into it more than once. Like using the dark side of the Force, she continued to go into minds when she thought it was right and it was the quick and easy way.. All that time she continued to be Harry's apprentice and put him in danger as well as herself. No, in the MMverse, she might be that plump happy mother Harry saw in the soul gaze, forsaking all her power like her mother did.. Leaving Harry without any back up.
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Or not, in this universe Molly never fully dropped her warlock status, she slipped back into it more than once. Like using the dark side of the Force, she continued to go into minds when she thought it was right and it was the quick and easy way.. All that time she continued to be Harry's apprentice and put him in danger as well as herself. No, in the MMverse, she might be that plump happy mother Harry saw in the soul gaze, forsaking all her power like her mother did.. Leaving Harry without any back up.
Y'see, I think that's the endgame for Harry after has destroyed the current state of affairs in the supernatural world, wrecked the fae courts and caused their destruction by removing the need for them, having either destroyed the outsiders or sealed them away from reality for all time or for at least this cycle.
Harry and Molly are going to get together and make babies. Given that the files are written by Harry after the fact, and given the ominous warning at the end of Storm Front, Harry is going to be mega powerful at the end. Of course, nothing says that Molly can't make babies as the Winter Queen.
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And then Murphy comes back.
There is no happily ever after for Harry, even if he survives he is going to end up as the Merlin, becoming the authority he despises, but critical to the defence from the Outsiders until the next cycle.
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And then Murphy comes back.
There is no happily ever after for Harry, even if he survives he is going to end up as the Merlin, becoming the authority he despises, but critical to the defence from the Outsiders until the next cycle.
There are happily ever afters, and then there are happily ever afters... I doubt that Harry will end up with Molly, Murphy, or anyone else, I don't think that will be his happy ending. I do think if he survives, Harry will be older, a heck of a lot more powerful, much wiser, and will find happiness in his children and grand children, and of course, saving the planet.
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i suspect Harry will bring Alt Bob back with him, and the two Bob’s will sync up and merge into a single, more powerful spirit of intellect, so Harry has the full run down on the failed timeline.
It also means Bob gets two identical Sanctums, something he has long wanted from Harry.
It also means all the knowledge lost to Evil Bob is returned, something Harry has regretted, which probably includes all Bob’s knowledge of when Kemmler was warden of Demonreach.