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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: TheCuriousFan on October 23, 2020, 09:04:59 PM

Title: The Next Book's Title
Post by: TheCuriousFan on October 23, 2020, 09:04:59 PM
As we are all aware (and if you're not, what are you doing in the spoiler section?), there's a whole lot of political and character drama coming up after the end of Battle Ground, not really the sort of thing that should happen off screen. It turns out that Jim agrees with this because apparently Mirror Mirror isn't the next one. Fresh from the Legendarium podcast:

Quote
Jim: ...I'm gonna have to add another book in. I've gotta write, it's gonna a take a novel to deal with the aftermath of what happened in Battle Ground. I think the next novel is gonna be called Twelve Months and it's just gonna be about Dresden-well it's gonna be about more than that because it's a Dresden Files book with the usual insanity but the actual story is Dresden coping with all the damage he's taken over the years. You know that as a writer I'm not a fade to black guy in the Dresden Files, it doesn't happen very often, but it has happened. And every time I've the fade to black and that has happened, for the most part, it fades because Harry's pulling the curtain, because he doesn't share the really bad things with anyone, not even the reader. There are /bad/ things that have happened to Dresden and when bad things happen to you it's cumulative, it adds up. If you don't face it and deal with it it keeps adding up and adding up until it starts causing you psychological problems and difficulties with your friends and issues with your family. If you're out there in the middle of it you've got to be dealing with it, and he hasn't been. And we're gonna have a book about why, and the effects of the things that have happened over the years and the cumulative effects and how you deal with them and get over them.

Todd: Especially now that he's a father, that makes it especially emotionally charged.

Jim: Yeah he can't afford to just sit somewhere and feel sorry for himself or to drive himself to the brink of exhaustion and starvation trying to find a solution to his problems. He can't do that anymore, he's a grown-up, he's got a lot of things he's handling. And yeah, Maggie's the big one, kids change everything. If you've got a kid there waiting for you you can't be the guy that's sitting on the floor wailing poor me, that's not gonna work.

Todd: It's something we've covered in several episodes, how Harry takes all the guilt on himself and how that's not healthy. To see you say that we need something to deal with it, is that something that's been in the works for a long time or is that something that's come across organically kind of as you've written through seventeen books?

Jim: No, I wasn't planning to do a book about trauma and dealing with it, on account of I was busy not dealing with any of my trauma. But yeah when you start learning about it it's like "hey, this is something people need to know." And the idea's gonna be "look, I'm gonna show Dresden coping" and coping isn't always a particularly pretty thing or a noble thing. Nobody's pretty when they're in pain but it happens to all of us at some time or another, horrible things come along. And you've gotta deal with it and how do you deal with it. So partly this next book is going to be Dresden figuring out how to deal with things that are not slobbery monsters trying to chew his face off, those he can manage, he's really good with those, that's doable no problem. All these other issues are a different thing and..

Todd: And he has a wedding to prepare for.

Jim: Yeah, no kidding.

Link: https://thelegendarium.podbean.com/e/a-conversation-with-jim-butcher/
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Dina on October 23, 2020, 10:14:24 PM
Ok this is huge! A very important change.

Frankly, I don't know how to react to this. For one hand, I am very glad to see that we will have time to see the aftermath of all what happened. We need it. But then, he does not say anything about Thomas and Justine, which are, in my opinion, the things that need urgent resolution. And with him not saying anything about that , I am afraid he is going to kick this until after the wedding (which seems more probable now than before).
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Eleyctra on October 23, 2020, 10:32:43 PM
But then, he does not say anything about Thomas and Justine, which are, in my opinion, the things that need urgent resolution. And with him not saying anything about that , I am afraid he is going to kick this until after the wedding (which seems more probable now than before).

It's too soon to say, as Jim came about the next book organically (very likely during the writing of PT/BG). As a writer with a sudden new book thrown in next with no warning, he possibly only has point A and point Z of the next book figured out, and dealing with his brother's situation and everything else still needs mapping out. Which means he literally can't tell us any more info yet.

But I too am also glad there will be a book on the aftermath. There's so much to unpack these past 17 books.  :)
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: ElJefe81 on October 23, 2020, 10:41:03 PM
I agree this is fantastic.  There is so much aftermath here and given that the next book was going to be Mirror Mirror it seemed like it was going to be difficult to touch on those topics very easily.  Hopefully if he's already got this in mind he's going to get it out soon after the next CinderSpires book
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: The_Sibelis on October 23, 2020, 11:13:38 PM
Noooooooooooo?!?
.....well, damn. This does bring up something I thought of after reading the end of BG. I recall Jim had wanted to do a book with Harry stuck in a mental institution without his powers. I wonder if this is him working that one in here. Something about how they were going to open up institutions for the psychological brainwashing of the people who witnessed the battle.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Snark Knight on October 23, 2020, 11:44:17 PM
I agree this is fantastic.  There is so much aftermath here and given that the next book was going to be Mirror Mirror it seemed like it was going to be difficult to touch on those topics very easily.  Hopefully if he's already got this in mind he's going to get it out soon after the next CinderSpires book

Assuming this is a real change of plan rather than an offhand remark, it's disappointing that MM is delayed even further. It struck me as more interesting a concept than any of the other books for quite a while pretty much ever since Jim has been talking about it.

That said, it kind of makes sense that the character has to get his head right before doing a book about conflict with his alternate self. Carrying around as much guilt and blame as Harry does, it would have been pretty difficult to write prevailing over his reflection in a way that felt earned or believable, short of using all his self-hate as fuel to go ham on the other guy, which would probably leave him even more stained after 'winning'.

And, frankly, jumping out of universe in the very next book and leaving so many loose ends flapping in the wind would have felt weird.

Still, a full length novel of just dealing with trauma for a year is going to be a tough structure. I think it would almost have to center some kind of actual plot around hunting Justine while Nemesis stays a step ahead, and then interweave subplots (training with River on getting his head straight, feds sniffing around, Lara, fleshing out Wizard of Chicago and the castle as Paranet HQ, and trying to mend things with Eb).
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 24, 2020, 12:09:06 AM
This sounds like it might be a linked story /novella collection in which case Christmas Eve is already written to slot in as the mid point. This may be quicker to write as it is episodic rather than a chronologically tight narrative of the usual files and would allow for Jim to write chunks between other projects during the lockdown. We know BG took place on the 21 June, Christmas Eve 24 December, so I presume the latter is the turning point where Harry starts to properly heal. Very much a different book to that we know. Jim stretched himself breaking format with Zoo Day, he may be trying the same here and if Twelve Months is half as good as that story then we are in for a treat. I also wonder if this period is going to be when the Maggie and Mouse stories are going to be set, in parallel to the events of Twelve Months.

Mab had expressed in BG that she expected Harry to be seen with Lara at a number of events, doubtless they will feature. I would expect one to be Harry studying with River Shoulders, perhaps return of Gen? Another dealing with Bradley and Rudy. Perhaps one dealing with the n- ?. One or more dealing with the White Council trying to involve themselves in Chicago and/or the Paranet, there are plenty of story threads which can picked up, and allowed to develop over time so we see in the background Harry setting up Camelot, coming to terms with the deaths in BG, the evolving relationships with his children, the rebuilding of Chicago, the hunt for Justine and the recovery of Thomas.

As for Mirror, Mirror, just as Harry gets his life straightened out, his evil twin tries to steal it. Works for me as a set up.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Dina on October 24, 2020, 12:14:55 AM
Still, a full length novel of just dealing with trauma for a year is going to be a tough structure. I think it would almost have to center some kind of actual plot around hunting Justine while Nemesis stays a step ahead, and then interweave subplots (training with River on getting his head straight, feds sniffing around, Lara, fleshing out Wizard of Chicago and the castle as Paranet HQ, and trying to mend things with Eb).
Oh yes, that part will be easy. Eb will be delighted to know Harry is going to marry Lara.

Seriously, I would like to see something about Ivy and/or Kinkaid.

Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 24, 2020, 01:14:54 AM
Been through the podcast, apparently Bob is going to be Harry’s home cinema and he is going to have gargoyle pitbulls on the Castle (presumably one of the defence features Marcone has overlooked), but friends for Mouse.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Snark Knight on October 24, 2020, 01:57:53 AM
Oh yes, that part will be easy. Eb will be delighted to know Harry is going to marry Lara.

Everyone likes to say "I told you so".
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: bigdangmoose on October 24, 2020, 03:55:18 AM
Been through the podcast, apparently Bob is going to be Harry’s home cinema and he is going to have gargoyle pitbulls on the Castle (presumably one of the defence features Marcone has overlooked), but friends for Mouse.

Him, Disney's Gargoyles? Will there be a Goliath?
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Mira on October 24, 2020, 05:01:02 AM


  It makes sense, Harry has been through a lot, I hope he has someone who can help him.  What was really shocking after Susan was half turned and went away and threw Harry into a severe depression is who little understanding or sympathy he got from anyone.  It was all "how could you let yourself go like this?"  Yeah, I hope he goes and trains with Rivershoulders, and maybe Listens to Wind will show up as well.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Dina on October 24, 2020, 05:53:32 AM
The fact that he keeps Bob and can even use it for that makes me incredibly happy. He needs to stop being so alone and it is good that at least he can now see the same things than others. I also need him being more in touch with his friends. Particularly, he shouldn't take the Alphas for granted.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: SintraEdrien on October 24, 2020, 05:55:45 AM
What jumped out at me, and makes me think that this was not originally planned, was this sentence:

Jim: No, I wasn't planning to do a book about trauma and dealing with it, on account of I was busy not dealing with any of my trauma.

Link: https://thelegendarium.podbean.com/e/a-conversation-with-jim-butcher/
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Dina on October 24, 2020, 06:01:09 AM
I want to thank TCF and everyone commenting on this. As I don't hear the podcasts (they are difficult to me to understand) I like to read whatever I can, specially when it is so juicy as this.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 24, 2020, 07:46:35 AM
Him, Disney's Gargoyles? Will there be a Goliath?

I suspect one will be called Brutus, who if is true to Jim’s Pitbull of the same name he will imperil bad guys by trying to chew their shoes while wearing them and looking cute. Fortunately as evil is always afoot, the bad guys need their shoes. Next best choice is Fenris, after Jim’s cat who totally dominates Brutus. It’s funny but it is real life imitating art, Fenris and Brutus do recreate the Mister and Mouse dynamic.

But yes Gargoyles is the inspiration (why do they cancel the great stuff) and a pack of Stone Pitbulls led by Mouse protecting Maggie and the Castle is a terrific idea, you know Harry will name them, and we already have a precedent with Ancient Mai’s, Stone Foo Dogs. Indeed this would be Harry flipping the bird at the White Council.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: bigdangmoose on October 24, 2020, 01:45:01 PM
Why do they cancel great stuff? The sad truth is merchandise sales. DC had some great shows on Cartoon Network, the ratings were high for them, and they canceled them because the toy sales sucked.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Mira on October 24, 2020, 03:12:11 PM


  I predict that there is going to be a trial.  That for the moment Rudolph will cobble together enough evidence to arrest Harry.  Harry will defended by no less than Queen Mab herself in her lawyer mode.  There will be a real Perry Mason moment where on a blistering/frosty cross examination, Mab will get Rudolph to confess he set Harry up, who's behind it, and confess to killing Murphy.  He won't be prosecuted because he will be deemed mentally incompetent. 
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 24, 2020, 05:18:01 PM
Considering how well connected his bride to be is there is not likely to be. Trial, but there will be a reckoning for Rudy in Twelve Months. Remember this is about catharsis and healing.

Marcone won’t move against Harry over Skin Game, as Harry knows about Thorned Namshiel and doesn’t want that broadcast.

I wonder though, after Christmas Eve will we see Harry in therapy?

Therapist “you have this delusion that you can do magic?”

Harry “look into my eyes”
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Mira on October 24, 2020, 05:34:27 PM
Considering how well connected his bride to be is there is not likely to be. Trial, but there will be a reckoning for Rudy in Twelve Months. Remember this is about catharsis and healing.

Marcone won’t move against Harry over Skin Game, as Harry knows about Thorned Namshiel and doesn’t want that broadcast.

Harry will realize that Rudy is insane, and forgive him, which is healing. 
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 24, 2020, 06:47:31 PM
Harry ends up in the same group therapy as Rudy.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Mira on October 24, 2020, 09:30:07 PM
Harry ends up in the same group therapy as Rudy.

Oh that would really go over well... :o
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: bigdangmoose on October 24, 2020, 09:31:23 PM
I know this may be the unpopular theory right now, but I don't think Rudy will have anything happen to him. He will deny doing anything about it, his psych being broken because of all the events of BG
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Dina on October 24, 2020, 09:43:50 PM
I think he won't have legal troubles (after all, there is no body, all was a chaos that night, and the only witness is...a wizard) but I think he will try to kill Dresden.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Telynn on October 24, 2020, 10:39:23 PM
I think he won't have legal troubles (after all, there is no body, all was a chaos that night, and the only witness is...a wizard) but I think he will try to kill Dresden.

I could see his paranoid delusions taking that turn. 
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Snark Knight on October 25, 2020, 12:00:43 AM
Considering how well connected his bride to be is there is not likely to be. Trial, but there will be a reckoning for Rudy in Twelve Months. Remember this is about catharsis and healing.

I'd be kind of disappointed if Harry starts leaning on Lara's political connections. It would be too much like embracing the arrangement, torpedo any chance of reconciling with Eb, and be a bad look in front of any Librarians investigating how much the Raiths have compromised the system. Plus, he'd probably owe Lara.

Although on the topic of favors, did Murphy actually ever use the marker Lara offered her for keeping Raith business off the police blotter in BR? Even if vampire favors aren't inheritable like fae ones, perhaps Lara would consider herself obligated to make sure Rudy doesn't get away with it just to settle her account, rather than as a favor to Harry. Or ... does the favour stay banked until Murphy comes back as an Einherjar?
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Dina on October 25, 2020, 12:29:03 AM
I think Lara would want to kill Rudolph herself just because she liked Murphy. I am sure she would have fed him to Thomas if she could but of course Harry won't allow it. But perhaps...he is not told. Still, death by Lara is a better death than Rudolph deserves, so perhaps it would be better if she just asks Freydis  :)

Also, I believe that the White Court arrangement will provide Harry the protection status that the White Council won't, even when many of his friends won't be thrilled for that. So, Harry will need it. Besides, what good would the engagement be for Mab if the two courts won't be seen as allies?
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Mira on October 25, 2020, 12:42:57 AM
I know this may be the unpopular theory right now, but I don't think Rudy will have anything happen to him. He will deny doing anything about it, his psych being broken because of all the events of BG
That is what I fear.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Telynn on October 25, 2020, 01:05:46 AM
Quote
I'd be kind of disappointed if Harry starts leaning on Lara's political connections.
  I doubt he will, but that doesn't mean Lara or Mab won't step in anyways.  For a hypothetical example, Harry gets accused of Murphy's murder by Rudy.  He's at the station being questioned.  Now leaning on that connection would mean he would call on them to come help him.  I SERIOUSLY doubt Harry would do that.  What would happen is the questioning would be interrupted by a high dollar lawyer (sent by Lara or Mab) and that lawyer takes care of the situation.  Afterwards Harry might even act a bit miffed about it.  Or just decide "Hey, I am the winter knight/Lara fiancee, that might as well be good for something".  But calling on them when in trouble will never be his go-to play.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Snark Knight on October 25, 2020, 01:35:01 AM
Still, death by Lara is a better death than Rudolph deserves, so perhaps it would be better if she just asks Freydis  :)

Lara probably could swing getting him convicted in court if she decided proper justice would discharge her favor ... her young cousin from Jury Duty has that DA wrapped around her finger. Narratively, Butters convincing Harry not to murder him in vengeance loses some punch if his new dark friends get it done for him without getting his hands personally dirty.

On the other hand, if Rudy keeps up his grudge against Harry over Twelve Months and Lara finds that getting in the way of her use for him, she's got another option that's nastier than eating him herself and more discrete than Freydis. Rudy's a cop who's seen too much, carrying at least one guilty secret and with access to a gun. Any Skavis would probably more or less duplicate her "is he a present?" reaction to Carlos the virgin.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 25, 2020, 03:57:18 AM
Can I put in a request to reconsider the book title?  Because this unintentionally fits with a speculative title from years ago. Especially if it's a combo of him dealing with mental trauma and hunting Beside.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/q507/wizardpi/Dresden_Covers/15_Inner_Demon.jpg)
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Arjan on October 25, 2020, 07:42:40 AM
No hat?
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Wicked Woodpecker of West on October 25, 2020, 07:43:05 AM
That's how dark we've got. No hat.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 25, 2020, 11:27:36 AM
No hat?
Do not try and bend the hat. That is impossible. Instead... Only try to realize the truth.

There is no hat.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 25, 2020, 01:45:03 PM
The Hat is a lie.

Although Kringle could have brought him is fathers Stage Top Hat.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Arjan on October 25, 2020, 01:56:32 PM
Do not try and bend the hat. That is impossible. Instead... Only try to realize the truth.

There is no hat.
There is no hat and yet there is one in art. That implies the hat has great symbolical value. It has meaning. The hat that is and is not has more meaning than just a hat that is.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Lehane on October 25, 2020, 02:12:23 PM
Much like Bob and Mab, the Hat has a feud with Ivy, and thus a word about it is never written...
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 25, 2020, 05:13:28 PM
The Hat is symbolic of unresolved depression and trauma, all the way back to his fathers death. Harry must take it off in the next Twelve Months
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 25, 2020, 06:56:20 PM
I just had a thought.  Harry has conjuritis as an adult, something that's not common.  He's also stronger than most wizards his age in raw power.  He's also going through lots of trauma that he hasn't dealt with. And we know from this last book that tulpas are possible, as Bob said they could be generated from all the fear and suffering in Chicago.

What if Harry were to conjure his own tulpa via conjuritis?  One that's stable and self-sustaining?

I think the best thing would be an evil version of him that's all of his fears given form, but not an evil version that goes after him, but one that attacks that which he fears.  That way it wouldn't be just a different take on the mirror mirror evil Harry.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 25, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
What would be interesting in Harry “Going back to school” is him not as a student, but as a teacher, as a subplot.

Everyone is going to be interested in magic after BG, including the University. Irwin’s mother Helena is a professor of archaeology, she should know the anthropologists, what if Harry were invited to be a visiting lecturer in anthropology, specifically magic. Harry has always had an enormous chip on his shoulder that he only has a GED, this would resolve this issue as well as open up new issues both within the White Council and the University. It would be nice that Twelve Months ends with Harry being awarded an honorary degree, or even a doctorate. Doctor, Sir Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden has a nice ring to it.

And of course Jim could use his Summer Knight Story of becoming famous in fandom, where he had previously dome panels to empty rooms, is late for the Summer Knight Panel, but there is a crush in the corridor, so he patiently waits at the end of the queue which turns silent until
Some asked “er, are you Jim Butcher?” To find his room was packed and this was the overflow.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: The_Sibelis on October 26, 2020, 12:58:20 AM
I just had a thought.  Harry has conjuritis as an adult, something that's not common.  He's also stronger than most wizards his age in raw power.  He's also going through lots of trauma that he hasn't dealt with. And we know from this last book that tulpas are possible, as Bob said they could be generated from all the fear and suffering in Chicago.

What if Harry were to conjure his own tulpa via conjuritis?  One that's stable and self-sustaining?

I think the best thing would be an evil version of him that's all of his fears given form, but not an evil version that goes after him, but one that attacks that which he fears.  That way it wouldn't be just a different take on the mirror mirror evil Harry.
I'm lost on the subtlety of the difference or purpose of this tulpa then?
I've long figured in MM one of two things are going to happen
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Snark Knight on October 26, 2020, 01:02:51 AM
I've long figured in MM one of two things are going to happen
(click to show/hide)
Or he sends a message back in time to ensure he doesn't make the divergent choice, and ctrl-z's the 'bad' timeline.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 26, 2020, 04:55:14 AM
I'm lost on the subtlety of the difference or purpose of this tulpa then?
I've long figured in MM one of two things are going to happen
(click to show/hide)
I don't know what you mean by consuming mirror Harry.  They're both going to be humans, presumably, with different flavors of power.  Humans don't really consume each other?

I picture mirror Harry being human with selfish motivations. I picture tulpa Harry being almost beastial, with Id's lack of empathy and the Winter Mantle's ferocity.

Imagine an iced over Harry that's gone full Winter, who's only goal is to defeat Harry's (and its own) fears by killing everything that threatens them.

Harry has issues with Marcone? Tulparry goes after him, jeopardizing their truce in the process.

Harry has trust issues with Mab? Tulparry tries to kill her to free Molly.

It'd be like the Nightmare all over again, only instead of a Kravos-based monster using Harry's intellect and strategy against him, it'd be using it to enact what he's always wanted to do, but has always been too afraid to do, for one reason or another.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: The_Sibelis on October 26, 2020, 05:36:46 AM
I don't know what you mean by consuming mirror Harry.  They're both going to be humans, presumably, with different flavors of power.  Humans don't really consume each other?

I picture mirror Harry being human with selfish motivations. I picture tulpa Harry being almost beastial, with Id's lack of empathy and the Winter Mantle's ferocity.

Imagine an iced over Harry that's gone full Winter, who's only goal is to defeat Harry's (and its own) fears by killing everything that threatens them.

Harry has issues with Marcone? Tulparry goes after him, jeopardizing their truce in the process.

Harry has trust issues with Mab? Tulparry tries to kill her to free Molly.

It'd be like the Nightmare all over again, only instead of a Kravos-based monster using Harry's intellect and strategy against him, it'd be using it to enact what he's always wanted to do, but has always been too afraid to do, for one reason or another.
well, Kemmler learned to consume spirits with necromancy. We theorize MM harry learned his fake death trick from Kemmler via Bob. I think Kemmler consumed his doubles spirits thus increasing his own power by multiples(specifically getting better at things he's already good at by proxy of more of himself). Unlike what happened with Kravos if life is lost the transfer will remain. And Harry or MM Harry (as far as we know) are not immortal so the are not locked into stasis on their power level. I theorize one of the Harry's will eat the other. I kinda think our Harry will be the one to die tho.. but since he's Harry F'n Dresden he basically just becomes Harry in a slightly different body. With a missing eye, goatee and a probable hat.. and it's his experiences in the MM universe that gave him wisdom, ergo loss of eye. Idk, just an old theory about how things balance. They created the issues with Nemesis vs the fae courts because they balancets things seperate instead of in a whole. (Insert disclaimer for information lost from my head, i vaguely remember something about seeing this done in the protohistory we've discussed on the DF) also, I think that's what happened in the fight between Bob and evil Bob. Bob contained him as part of himself but seperated from his conscious self. Iirc someone else actually originally theorized that, I just fleshed the idea out into other things(cause no explanation of magic in the DF only applies to what they're talking about directly imo)
I actually really like that idea for a tulpa... Reminds me of this song called the new great depression, everyone has their own monster. 🤔 Actually, makes me wonder if Dresden won't have to contain the tulpa of his own dark self instead to stop it...
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Wicked Woodpecker of West on October 26, 2020, 10:58:12 AM
Tulpa!Harry conjured by conjuritis and reality disruption would be one of methods to kill Rudolph I'd not be opposed of.

Or even better Dresden having to save Rudolph from tulpa :3
Salt those wounds Jim, salt them.

And then when Dresden is kidnapped by Mirror!Harry - Harry at first is like - WTF again!
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 26, 2020, 09:34:43 PM
Tulpa!Harry conjured by conjuritis and reality disruption would be one of methods to kill Rudolph I'd not be opposed of.

Or even better Dresden having to save Rudolph from tulpa :3
Salt those wounds Jim, salt them.

And then when Dresden is kidnapped by Mirror!Harry - Harry at first is like - WTF again!
Doing both back to back might be too much or too similar, but I think JB could pull it off. Especially if the first helped him learn about himself, and the second helped him see just how good he is. 

Kind of like his ghosts of what he could be, and what he could have been. 
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Snark Knight on October 27, 2020, 01:51:10 AM
I don't know what you mean by consuming mirror Harry.  They're both going to be humans, presumably, with different flavors of power.  Humans don't really consume each other?

There was a WOJ that there's a way for one practitioner to consume another's power ("and it's horrible").
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 27, 2020, 02:01:54 AM
There was a WOJ that there's a way for one practitioner to consume another's power ("and it's horrible").
I don't see Harry doing that to himself.  Not our Harry, at least.  And the wording made it sound more like they'd be merging from two to one, rather than stealing power like the Nightmare did.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: The_Sibelis on October 27, 2020, 02:22:30 AM
I don't see Harry doing that to himself.  Not our Harry, at least.  And the wording made it sound more like they'd be merging from two to one, rather than stealing power like the Nightmare did.
👀👀 do you know where I can find that particular Woj? Given my previous theory on MM I rather wish to read it...
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Griffyn612 on October 27, 2020, 02:28:01 AM
👀👀 do you know where I can find that particular Woj? Given my previous theory on MM I rather wish to read it...
I was talking about your wording.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: The_Sibelis on October 27, 2020, 02:35:43 AM
I was talking about your wording.
oh, I thought you meant the wording of the Woj... I vaguely remember reading that now, but only the overall context.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: TheCuriousFan on October 27, 2020, 03:46:57 AM
👀👀 do you know where I can find that particular Woj? Given my previous theory on MM I rather wish to read it...
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/25q3em/i_am_jim_butcher_author_of_the_dresden_files_the/chjqznr/?context=3
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: The_Sibelis on October 27, 2020, 04:36:04 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/25q3em/i_am_jim_butcher_author_of_the_dresden_files_the/chjqznr/?context=3
thank you 😀
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Bad Alias on October 27, 2020, 05:49:34 PM
I think it would almost have to center some kind of actual plot around hunting Justine while Nemesis stays a step ahead, and then interweave subplots (training with River on getting his head straight, feds sniffing around, Lara, fleshing out Wizard of Chicago and the castle as Paranet HQ, and trying to mend things with Eb).
I want something very much like this. Harry dealing with all his issues that need dealing with. Some overarching plot going on in the background. Maybe Harry dealing with a bunch of the little threats that were only afraid to take a shot at him because the Council would retaliate. Maybe Harry building a force to be reckoned with, which requires him going on quests to gain the support of this being and that group.

Put in basically any, but probably not all, of the subplots and loose threads everyone has posted about.

The fact that he keeps Bob and can even use it for that makes me incredibly happy.
100% agree. If I'm being honest, Bob and Toot are probably my favorite side characters. I've never had too much of them in a book.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on October 27, 2020, 07:29:35 PM
Yes Bob was constantly monitoring radio traffic throughout BG.

Given this there is absolutely no reason Bob couldn’t act like a mobile phone to Harry, it would be hilarious if Harry lifted Bob to his ear to make or receive a call, the new Storm Front limited edition cover of Harry with Bob in hand brings this to mind.

And of course Cockney rhyming slang for telephone being “dog and bone”, often shortened to just “bone” would be wholly appropriate.

“The Looney Tunes themes went off in my bag, I reached in and removed Bob, holding him to my ear.

“Do you mind if I answer the bone?” I said to Mac.

“I have been expecting an urgent call”

Harry should be able to get a pristine phone and number, have it rung by a third party next to Bob and have Bob “Clone” it so that calls are received and sent by Bob, with normal billing to the Castle. He could do the same with Maggie and Bonea, so he could always keep in touch with his daughters, he was worried what was happening throughout BG to Maggie.

The only problem would be if Bob discovers phone sex.

Toot on the other hand would make an most excellent Drone.
Title: Re: The Next Book's Title
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on October 28, 2020, 01:46:01 AM

  I predict that there is going to be a trial.  That for the moment Rudolph will cobble together enough evidence to arrest Harry.  Harry will defended by no less than Queen Mab herself in her lawyer mode.  There will be a real Perry Mason moment where on a blistering/frosty cross examination, Mab will get Rudolph to confess he set Harry up, who's behind it, and confess to killing Murphy.  He won't be prosecuted because he will be deemed mentally incompetent.

That's not bad.  I'd like to see Mab in her lawyer disguise.