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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: trango on October 16, 2020, 01:37:15 PM
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Does anyone else think it's kind of messed up that Dresden pretty much ignores his second daughter?
Maggie gets a short story in Brief Cases, A short story at the end of Battle Ground, and is Harry's motivation and inspiration throughout the last two books.
Bonea makes pancakes at the beginning of Peace Talks, is thrown in a bag several chapters later, and then is not thought of or mentioned again.
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Does anyone else think it's kind of messed up that Dresden pretty much ignores his second daughter?
Maggie gets a short story in Brief Cases, A short story at the end of Battle Ground, and is Harry's motivation and inspiration throughout the last two books.
Bonea makes pancakes at the beginning of Peace Talks, is thrown in a bag several chapters later, and then is not thought of or mentioned again.
Here is a possible reason, remember what Luccio said about Bob back in Small Favor? If the Council knew about him, they'd destroy him. Also Bonea is half fallen angel, if Harry thought about her in a place not shielded and Andriel might find out. Wouldn't Nic like to get a hold of her? So I think he may have kept her out of his thoughts to keep her safe.
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Does anyone else think it's kind of messed up that Dresden pretty much ignores his second daughter?
Maggie gets a short story in Brief Cases, A short story at the end of Battle Ground, and is Harry's motivation and inspiration throughout the last two books.
Bonea makes pancakes at the beginning of Peace Talks, is thrown in a bag several chapters later, and then is not thought of or mentioned again.
It is kind of fucked up, hopefully she gets a better treatment in Mirror Mirror.
Here is a possible reason, remember what Luccio said about Bob back in Small Favor? If the Council knew about him, they'd destroy him. Also Bonea is half fallen angel, if Harry thought about her in a place not shielded and Andriel might find out. Wouldn't Nic like to get a hold of her? So I think he may have kept her out of his thoughts to keep her safe.
That ship has sailed, he told Murphy about Bonea when he knew Anduriel was listening in Skin Game.
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Here is a possible reason, remember what Luccio said about Bob back in Small Favor? If the Council knew about him, they'd destroy him. Also Bonea is half fallen angel, if Harry thought about her in a place not shielded and Andriel might find out. Wouldn't Nic like to get a hold of her? So I think he may have kept her out of his thoughts to keep her safe.
I get hiding her from the Council. But Anduriel's thing is watching and listening, not reading minds. Otherwise the whole code for communicating with Grey under everyone's noses is SG would have been useless.
I'm not sure who he was worried about reading his mind about the knife, but it had to be someone else.
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I get hiding her from the Council. But Anduriel's thing is watching and listening, not reading minds. Otherwise the whole code for communicating with Grey under everyone's noses is SG would have been useless.
I'm not sure who he was worried about reading his mind about the knife, but it had to be someone else.
Ethniu most probably.
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He was also consciously not thinking about the knife ...
Pretty sure someone asked about Bonnie in one of those recent interviews and Jim said yeah, Harry was actively trying not to think about her? Would have to track those down again...
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He was also consciously not thinking about the knife ...
Pretty sure someone asked about Bonnie in one of those recent interviews and Jim said yeah, Harry was actively trying not to think about her? Would have to track those down again...
Yes, the point was made several times in the book, Harry's desire not to give anything away to the enemy or enemies about the Spear. And we have the wonderful example of the Corpsetaker to know there are begins who don't mind waltzing through your mind for information without your permission. Very few know about Bonea, not thinking about her would help to keep her safe.
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Yes, the point was made several times in the book, Harry's desire not to give anything away to the enemy or enemies about the Spear. And we have the wonderful example of the Corpsetaker to know there are begins who don't mind waltzing through your mind for information without your permission. Very few know about Bonea, not thinking about her would help to keep her safe.
Also remember that Lashiel openly talked about killing Harry then taking Bonea out of Harry's head in front of Nic/Andurial while in Hades vault.
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The narration is first person past tense. We get multiple exposition about how he's consciously making an effort not to think of the knife. But a sentence or two can't be spared to clarify he's doing the same about his other daughter? Doesn't really hold water.
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The narration is first person past tense. We get multiple exposition about how he's consciously making an effort not to think of the knife. But a sentence or two can't be spared to clarify he's doing the same about his other daughter? Doesn't really hold water.
Author giving himself wiggle room for later maybe?
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The narration is first person past tense. We get multiple exposition about how he's consciously making an effort not to think of the knife. But a sentence or two can't be spared to clarify he's doing the same about his other daughter? Doesn't really hold water.
Well, in the beginning of Peace Talks when Eb arrives at the apartment, Harry makes sure that Bonea is hidden away along with Maggie. He also makes sure she is safe with him when he heads for Michael's place with kids and animals in tow. So he knows she is safe, unlike little Maggie, if she stays in her wooden skull, unless an intruder knew what they were looking for, chances are she'd be over looked. Usually no one ever noticed Bob and he lives in a real skull. So hiding in plain sight, she is pretty safe.
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Speaking of hiding in plain sight. Maybe he could do something to it to look more like a normal kids accessory? Maybe hide it in a teddy bear?
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Speaking of hiding in plain sight. Maybe he could do something to it to look more like a normal kids accessory? Maybe hide it in a teddy bear?
Or a wooden dinosaur skull.
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Or a wooden dinosaur skull.
Halloween decoration
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Halloween decoration
Not really usable the whole year round.
It is time Maggie gets her own wizard staff. Bones can live in there.
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Not really usable the whole year round.
Not for most normal people but when she goes through her goth phase it will be normal. Mostly agree with this though
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Bonea should be able to call ectoplasm from the Never Never and animate that around her skull in the form of a human body. Bob should be able to do this as well, stay in the skull safe but also able to fully interact with mortals, except during dawn. However Bob’s sanctum appears to have additional controlling enchantments on this which may prevent this, not sure if Bonea’s has these restrictions. If Bonea manifested it would be the form we saw in Harry’s dream in Skin Game where he realises what she actually is.
However that form reflects all the women that Harry has loved, of whom only Elaine still lives. I don’t expect Bonea to incarnate until Harry is at peace with that, perhaps after Mirror Mirror.
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Not for most normal people
Also, most normal people don't live in a friggin' castle.
Bonea should be able to call ectoplasm from the Never Never and animate that around her skull in the form of a human body. Bob should be able to do this as well.
What do you mean by should? That Jim should have written it that way or that Jim has written the story world that way?
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Bonea is a young spirit of intellect that does not comprehend how the information she knows interacts in the real world. she at this point is learning the basics of the world from her older sister as shown in the first chapter where the two are trying to make pan cakes at the behest of uncle Thomas.
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Add a spirit vessel enchantment when repairing the hole in the roof. Boom, wizardly smart home.
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I know Bonnie doesn't necessarily have the same enchantments as Bob... But I just realized how crazy it is to leave her with Maggie all the time.. like, does that mean her and Maggie share the connection Bob and his master usually do?
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By the rules Jim has written yes Bonea should be able to do this. It was a shock when Bob animated the lion statue, not something we have seen before, he had only animated the Skull and Bob has also imbued items with magical energy for Butters.
Other disembodied spirits have drawn ectoplasm from the Never Never (Binders Goons, the Nightmare etc ) so there is no reason Bonea can’t, it is something the Fallen did when shapeshifting to increase mass, so she should have this knowledge but it is useless as a vessel because dawn would wipe it away, but using a vessel inside the construct would allow Harry to interact with Bonea in the same way as with Maggie. Just don’t hug her when dawn breaks. That’s the benefit of using skulls as vessels.
Of course if Bonea does it then Bob would be able to gain this knowledge, but without knowing his parents it is unclear currently if he has the knowledge to draw ectoplasm. His construct would look like Butters younger brother based on SG.
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Other disembodied spirits have drawn ectoplasm from the Never Never.
But some, such as Ulshavaras, can't. That's why Harry had to have the cabbage patch doll.
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But as the scion of a fallen and a Wizard who fleshed out a dinosaur she has this knowledge from both parents.
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But as the scion of a fallen and a Wizard who fleshed out a dinosaur she has this knowledge from both parents.
But I got from ghost story that it is not necessarily a wise or even sane idea.
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But as the scion of a fallen and a Wizard who fleshed out a dinosaur she has this knowledge from both parents.
I don't know if knowledge alone is sufficient to allow it. Did Ushavaras lack knowledge or capability?
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I don't know if knowledge alone is sufficient to allow it. Did Ushavaras lack knowledge or capability?
Or maybe just did not want to?
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Or maybe just did not want to?
It's specifically stated that she can't.
The oracle spirit couldn't put together a body for herself, not even a nebulous cloud of light, like Bob could.
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There is a difference between manifesting a body from ectoplasm and animating a form from everyday matter. This is gone into in depth in Down Town, some sprits may require the everyday matter to anchor themselves in the material world, both Bob and Bonea do not, some spirits may not have the power, it is unknown.
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They should both be able to animate objects. I don't see a reason their sanctums would be excluded from that or that their sanctums can't have arms and legs. I haven't said otherwise. I was just responding to what you said. And that was about ectoplasm.
Bonea should be able to call ectoplasm from the Never Never and animate that around her skull in the form of a human body. Bob should be able to do this as well, stay in the skull safe but also able to fully interact with mortals, except during dawn.
Emphasis added.
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What you are suggesting is something like a ventriloquists doll. Not creepy at all.
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By the rules Jim has written yes Bonea should be able to do this. It was a shock when Bob animated the lion statue, not something we have seen before, he had only animated the Skull and Bob has also imbued items with magical energy for Butters.
Other disembodied spirits have drawn ectoplasm from the Never Never (Binders Goons, the Nightmare etc ) so there is no reason Bonea can’t, it is something the Fallen did when shapeshifting to increase mass, so she should have this knowledge but it is useless as a vessel because dawn would wipe it away, but using a vessel inside the construct would allow Harry to interact with Bonea in the same way as with Maggie. Just don’t hug her when dawn breaks. That’s the benefit of using skulls as vessels.
Of course if Bonea does it then Bob would be able to gain this knowledge, but without knowing his parents it is unclear currently if he has the knowledge to draw ectoplasm. His construct would look like Butters younger brother based on SG.
Bob doesn't appear to do magic directly and I suspect the same for Bonea. So he couldn't conjure a body from the Never Never assuming that is true. Have I missed something in the text?
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What you are suggesting is something like a ventriloquists doll. Not creepy at all.
I wasn't thinking that, but now I really want to see it. Also it's not my idea. I've seen others suggest it here in the past. I've always imagined something more along the lines of a mechanical man or one of those little artist's mannequins only bigger and more detailed, at least for the hands and feet.
Bob doesn't appear to do magic directly.
There are somethings that could be characterized as magic, especially the stuff Evil Bob has done, but we haven't seen him do much. I'm thinking about going into the Nevernever, the little death thing he did to Harry, and pretty much everything in Ghost Story either of them did. And didn't Harry suggest that Bob was powering all the spells that Butters was doing in SG?
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I'm unsure but, maybe, I just don't think so.
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There is really nothing to worry about with Bonea!! After all, what trouble could a Spirit of Intellect who is the product of a Fallen and a Starborn Wizard get into. It isn't like she has perfect recall and has knowledge of untold secrets as well as soulfire, hellfire, Kemmler's word, etc or anything. Sheesh!! Nothing to see here folks, move along.
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Bob was powering all the spells that Butters was doing in SG?
but that was all I believe, Butters was using him as a battery to make up for his lack of natural store. Harry said Bob must have versed butters in all his old artifice spells.
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@Morris & The_Sibelis: Yeah. I don't think we have enough to say what an SoI is or isn't capable of. I really doubt Bob can make a body out of ectoplasm and just lacks the knowledge of how to.
Bob obviously does "magic" because he moves the skull and the books. He's not doing it with magnets. But I don't think he can just do spells. My theory is that his magic is a different magic than a wizards.
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Bob protected Murphy in Changes. But it is not in Bob’s nature to manifest that way. He is a lab assistent, a magic counselor. We will probably never know whether he can because he does not need to.
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I think Harry's treatment of Bonnie will come back to bite him. She will realise soon how differently she is treated than Maggie is. Maggie is publicly acknowledged as Harrys daughter to his family and friends , she goes to school, hangs out with Mouse, has her own room, will get xmas and birthday gifts. Bonnie doesn't.
Theres no way thats not going to cause resentment of Maggie by Bonea. We have seen a big bad who locked away and hidden by her father, look how that turned out.
WAG about Bonnie and a body. She can possess people and will eventually find a way to Amanda Beckitt/persephone, it's going to look as though a miracle has happened and she has a reawakening. Harry trying to stop her puts him in Marcone's crosshairs.
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I'm still slightly disappointed butters hasn't figured out a way to use the faithsaber to power things, then he could really do some jedi tricks lol
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Theres no way thats not going to cause resentment of Maggie by Bonea.
I don't know. Bonnie isn't human. I'm personally disappointed "the offspring" isn't treated as such at all, but I don't think they should be treated the same. They should both be cared for and acknowledged (but probably not publicly for a sundry of reasons).
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Yes, they definitely should not be treated the same , however that's still going to affect the relationship between the family members.
I suppose it will boil down to how Bonnie see herself, does she view herself as Harry's offspring and have the expectation of a father daughter relationship, or will she grow to expect one because that's how she sees Harry and Maggie interacting.
You see it all the time in normal families. One child may require a different form/more attention . Its not the kids fault and it is completely unfair but it still affects and shapes them. Its a sad situation.
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Yes, they definitely should not be treated the same , however that's still going to affect the relationship between the family members.
I suppose it will boil down to how Bonnie see herself, does she view herself as Harry's offspring and have the expectation of a father daughter relationship, or will she grow to expect one because that's how she sees Harry and Maggie interacting.
You see it all the time in normal families. One child may require a different form/more attention . Its not the kids fault and it is completely unfair but it still affects and shapes them. Its a sad situation.
I am not too pessimistic. What is nice is that Maggie and Bonea can get along well.