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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Icecream on October 08, 2020, 11:34:38 PM
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Blampire WAG.
Drakul first created them by using necromancy combined with soulfire. My WAG is the reason Garlic is Blampire kryptonite is because He or his son were allergic to garlic and in using soulfire he accidentally transferred that weakness to his progenies.
Another spitball idea - a steak through the heat kills them because instead of a drum beat, soulfire has been used to fake a heartbeat that perpetually keeps the dead vampires running instead of a drummer. Steak through the heart is like stopping the drumming in necromancy and will stop them dead in their tracks. They need to keep topping up on human life to refill the battery to keep it ticking over.
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Blampire WAG.
Drakul first created them by using necromancy combined with soulfire. My WAG is the reason Garlic is Blampire kryptonite is because He or his son were allergic to garlic and in using soulfire he accidentally transferred that weakness to his progenies.
Another spitball idea - a steak through the heat kills them because instead of a drum beat, soulfire has been used to fake a heartbeat that perpetually keeps the dead vampires running instead of a drummer. Steak through the heart is like stopping the drumming in necromancy and will stop them dead in their tracks. They need to keep topping up on human life to refill the battery to keep it ticking over.
Who gave him the soul fire?
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Does it have to be "gifted" . I assumed magic using mortals had the capability to use it, but some just need a push. I mean it runs of their own soul.
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Does it have to be "gifted" . I assumed magic using mortals had the capability to use it, but some just need a push. I mean it runs of their own soul.
Have to go back and reread Small Favor, but the way I read the way Uriel explained it, it is gifted.
It is a gift not given lightly, it was given to Harry because he threw off Lasciel's shadow, and so he could balance Hell Fire. It just doesn't seem like something that would be gifted to Drakul. However Hell Fire could very well have been gifted to him to be used in much the same way as Soul Fire.
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Blampire WAG.
Drakul first created them by using necromancy combined with soulfire.
IIRC Dracula created himself as the first Blampire, I don't think Drakul actually created them. Dracula, being a scion with mortal Free Will, could have been gifted Soulfire.
Now he is commanding them in BG, but maybe he just kind of "reverse inherited" command over them when Dracula was killed in the Stokerlypse.
Although... I wonder if the soulfire/necromancy thing was actually ghouls, not Blampires. There doesn't seem to be anything "soul" like about Blampires, they're just animated corpses. Ghouls are actually alive.
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[1]IIRC Dracula created himself as the first Blampire, I don't think Drakul actually created them. Dracula, being a scion with mortal Free Will, could have been gifted Soulfire.
[2]Now he is commanding them in BG, but maybe he just kind of "reverse inherited" command over them when Dracula was killed in the Stokerlypse.
1) Jim's kinda waffled on the who and when of the Black Court's creation and it's relation to Dracula and Drakul.
2) It's just regular inheriting in an irregular direction. Unmarried childless people's heirs are generally parents, if their parents outlive them. Reverse inheriting would be loosing property by virtue of someone's death. I have now wandered way off the point.
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Does it have to be "gifted" . I assumed magic using mortals had the capability to use it, but some just need a push. I mean it runs of their own soul.
Gifted. Per WoJ, only about 6 wizards have ever been granted it.
It's the angelic analog to Hellfire.
Uriel is explicit about having gifted it to Harry.
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So is the assumption that Drakul was always bad and wouldn't have been worthy of receiving Soulfire from a Sponsor?
Because let's remember that the historical Drakul (Vlad II Dracul) was a first-class member of the Order of the Dragon, a chivalric order that supported the Holy Roman Empire. He swore to defend it, and their code was "in company with the prelates, barons, and magnates of our kingdom, whom we invite to participate with us in this party, by reason of the sign and effigy of our pure inclination and intention to crush the pernicious deeds of the same perfidious Enemy, and of the followers of the ancient Dragon, and (as one would expect) of the pagan knights, schismatics, and other nations of the Orthodox faith, and those envious of the Cross of Christ, and of our kingdoms, and of his holy and saving religion of faith, under the banner of the triumphant Cross of Christ."
Just how devout or useful Vlad II was to the preservation of the Church is questionable, but he was a warrior king that fought against other nations and religions.
Who's to say that he wasn't given power as a Starborn, but he went down a dark path after that and became something else?
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Hasn't Jim said that Drakul was a scion, i.e. the child of something monstrous and a human? How does that relate to him being Starborn? Does it mean that maybe his parents were actually both human, but the conditions of his birth allowed him to be Starborn and somehow there be a "third" parent? If so, then I wonder who or what that third is.
And, how does this relate to Harry? Perhaps that third parent is an Outsider... which would explain how and why Harry has the ability to resist and hurt outsiders. And why the White Council is so scared of him. He was called a "Destroyer" by Donald Morgan. The White Council knows he is Starborn. They know what Drakul is and how he is evil (maybe Drakul did start off as good, but turned evil), and they are terrified of Harry doing the same.
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Yet LTW knows it when he sees it, which supports my theory that Martha Liberty (who has never seen Harry use it, due to Checkov’s broken leg) also has access to soulfire, he saw her use it in her role as a Voodoo Priestess. Eb, Christos and Carlos has seen him use it, unlikely that Carlos knew what it was especially as it was mixed with Winter power, and Christos is dead, so did Eb recognise it?
Most members of the White Council have little or no use for organised religion, so the chances of one getting granted Soulfire are slim, especially if a large number of them are jerks (though that didn’t stop Harry). Too many pursue power for powers sake, which disqualifies them, and they have to cross the Fallen, and most are too cowardly.
Vlad Dracul doesn’t seem a candidate for soulfire or being a wizard, and WOJ has it that he is something else forced into a human body. He was a member of the Order of the dragon, so could that be it? A Dragon or even a dragon forced into a human body and stuck that way? Drakul is Modern Romanian for Devil. Could Dracul have been a meat puppet for either Lucifer or another of the Fallen (not Denarians)
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Yet LTW knows it when he sees it, which supports my theory that Martha Liberty (who has never seen Harry use it, due to Checkov’s broken leg) also has access to soulfire, he saw her use it in her role as a Voodoo Priestess. Eb, Christos and Carlos has seen him use it, unlikely that Carlos knew what it was especially as it was mixed with Winter power, and Christos is dead, so did Eb recognise it?
Most members of the White Council have little or no use for organised religion, so the chances of one getting granted Soulfire are slim, especially if a large number of them are jerks (though that didn’t stop Harry). Too many pursue power for powers sake, which disqualifies them, and they have to cross the Fallen, and most are too cowardly.
Vlad Dracul doesn’t seem a candidate for soulfire or being a wizard, and WOJ has it that he is something else forced into a human body. He was a member of the Order of the dragon, so could that be it? A Dragon or even a dragon forced into a human body and stuck that way? Drakul is Modern Romanian for Devil. Could Dracul have been a meat puppet for either Lucifer or another of the Fallen (not Denarians)
Wouldn't "modern Romanian" be post-Dracul/Dracula, and therefore influenced by the individuals? The origin for Dracul is Dragon, from the Order of the Dragon, which revolved around the story of St. George and the Dragon.
Real world-wise, there's not much reason for the order to have adopted the Dragon as its symbol, as the Dragon was killed by St. George after it demanded sacrifices. Interestingly, their symbol was the Dragon with its own tail wrapped around its neck, almost as if it were tamed by itself. Perhaps their symbolism was to turn that which had been evil to good?
Dresdenverse-wise, it'd be interesting if the Order of the Dragon was tied to doing just that. Imbuing someone with the power of the slain Dragon in order to let them wield it in a cause for good. Vlad II could have become their chosen host for the power, which is why he got the moniker. Maybe he was a Starborn and they thought he could control it, only things went... badly.
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Dresdenverse-wise, it'd be interesting if the Order of the Dragon was tied to doing just that. Imbuing someone with the power of the slain Dragon in order to let them wield it in a cause for good. Vlad II could have become their chosen host for the power, which is why he got the moniker. Maybe he was a Starborn and they thought he could control it, only things went... badly.
In think more often than not, it does go badly, there is a reason why Jim decided to go with the 666 years between births. And that is why the choice of Malcolm for Harry's father is so significant in this whole process. And why Harry is told over and over again he has a good heart like his father. I don't think he is being told this just to be saying something nice about him. It is what sets him apart from and keeps him from becoming a monster like Drakul and Listen. It's the bit that the White Council doesn't get.
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In think more often than not, it does go badly, there is a reason why Jim decided to go with the 666 years between births. And that is why the choice of Malcolm for Harry's father is so significant in this whole process. And why Harry is told over and over again he has a good heart like his father. I don't think he is being told this just to be saying something nice about him. It is what sets him apart from and keeps him from becoming a monster like Drakul and Listen. It's the bit that the White Council doesn't get.
One good point you make is that if Harry was born in 1975, give or take a few years, then the last Starborn alignment would have been 1306, give or take a few years.
Vlad II was born real-world in "before 1395". Open-ended, sure, but his father was born 1355. So the Starborn alignment date was fudged, or the Dresdenverse Vlad II wasn't the son of Mircea I.
So maybe it opens the door for him to being the son of someone... Something... else.
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Did Papa Raith sire a male Starborn Whampire?
Did Kemmler unsuccessfully try to take over this Whampire using Necromancy creating Dracul?
Did Papa Raith try to wipe out Dracul and his horde using Stoker's book?
Are the Blampires now trying to convert all of the Whampires to Blampires using Necromancy?
Is Lara hoping to compel Harry to help defeat these Blampires?
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Gifted. Per WoJ, only about 6 wizards have ever been granted it.
It's the angelic analog to Hellfire.
Uriel is explicit about having gifted it to Harry.
where/when was that Woj if you might know? I didn't know we'd had word on that..
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where/when was that Woj if you might know? I didn't know we'd had word on that..
In the recent Barnes and Noble q&a but for some baffling reason they nuked it from their Facebook within the week.
Is this the Mysterious Galaxy q&a or a different one?
EDIT: It was the Barnes and Noble q&a
https://www.facebook.com/barnesandnoble/videos/1655260961290955
- The Fallen can be infected but between their generally slippery nature and the lack of free will to act they make really bad targets who can't do much. He compared it to sticking your hand inside a plastic bag.
- Marcone has absolutely rocketed past Harry in skill, Harry might be able to pull off the teleporting stunt Marone did in a few centuries.
- Saints were made with faith, the church doesn't really do it anymore because they decided it was creepy. This is the nice version of the darkhallow mentioned in Welcome to the Jungle.
- Thomas probably can't wield Amoriacchus, maybe one of the other ones.
- The first of several short stories should be coming up in a few weeks.
- Multiple dimensions metaphysics obviously coming up in Mirror Mirror. Jim is not sure if all of his series are in the same universe or not.
- Soulfire can be used with necromancy, it has dire results. The results of one such case are commonly running around in the dresden files.
- There's been about half a dozen wizards in total who've gotten soulfire. Regular humans don't get it.
- For Mouse there's plans for a three part novella (first being presumably Zoo Day) planned. The second part will be Mouse and Cerberus going off on an adventure together.
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Marcone has absolutely rocketed past Harry in skill, Harry might be able to pull off the teleporting stunt Marone did in a few centuries.
Marcone hasn't, but Namshiel is a Fallen Angel, so yeah...
Thomas probably can't wield Amoriacchus, maybe one of the other ones.
Now that is interesting because the general consensus has been he'd be able to wield the Sword of Love because of his true love for Justine. So that gets thrown out the window now? I guess I could see him wielding the Sword of Hope, because as we learned from the soul gaze with Harry many years ago, part of Thomas continues to fight the Hunger even though it seems to be a losing battle.
Multiple dimensions metaphysics obviously coming up in Mirror Mirror. Jim is not sure if all of his series are in the same universe or not.
Now that sounds confusing...
Soulfire can be used with necromancy, it has dire results. The results of one such case are commonly running around in the dresden files.
There's been about half a dozen wizards in total who've gotten soulfire. Regular humans don't get it.
I'm not happy with that, yeah I know, not my call, but... So since at least one of the wizards who got soulfire, also used it with necromancy, does that say that archangels are really bad a judging the people they are giving the soulfire to? Or because of free will they don't think it is their problem?
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Multiple dimensions metaphysics obviously coming up in Mirror Mirror. Jim is not sure if all of his series are in the same universe or not.
Oh please don't!! I will absolutely be done with this series at that point.
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Oh please don't!! I will absolutely be done with this series at that point.
I don't know if I will go that far, but the series is already moving past the reason why I loved it in the first place. What began as unique has swiftly moved to standard fantasy, that is one reason why I cannot get excited about Mirror Mirror.
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Marcone suddenly having mad skills in magic is just about the stupidest thing ever... We constantly were reminded the easy path would let give you power at a terrible price and suddenly Marcone skips all that and just be ones a magical demigod with no drawbacks? That breaks the DF on a very moral level... I hate it, I absolutely despise it even. Getting a coin doesn't have to mean you become a practitioner. Marcone should have become a big hulking monster not some finesse filled warlock.
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Marcone suddenly having mad skills in magic is just about the stupidest thing ever... We constantly were reminded the easy path would let give you power at a terrible price and suddenly Marcone skips all that and just be ones a magical demigod with no drawbacks? That breaks the DF on a very moral level... I hate it, I absolutely despise it even. Getting a coin doesn't have to mean you become a practitioner. Marcone should have become a big hulking monster not some finesse filled warlock.
There will be drawbacks. He will loose his principles, the loyalty of his followers and he already lost a friend. At some point he will probably loose Gard’s respect as the fallen will influence his personality.
He will loose his soul.
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So since at least one of the wizards who got soulfire, also used it with necromancy, does that say that archangels are really bad a judging the people they are giving the soulfire to?
I truly don't remember where this was mentioned or was it in one of the side stories?
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Marcone hasn't, but Namshiel is a Fallen Angel, so yeah...
Now that is interesting because the general consensus has been he'd be able to wield the Sword of Love because of his true love for Justine. So that gets thrown out the window now? I guess I could see him wielding the Sword of Hope, because as we learned from the soul gaze with Harry many years ago, part of Thomas continues to fight the Hunger even though it seems to be a losing battle.
Now that sounds confusing...
I'm not happy with that, yeah I know, not my call, but... So since at least one of the wizards who got soulfire, also used it with necromancy, does that say that archangels are really bad a judging the people they are giving the soulfire to? Or because of free will they don't think it is their problem?
It means they take risks and can not predict everything when it comes to how humans use their free will.
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I truly don't remember where this was mentioned or was it in one of the side stories?
That's my point, it isn't anywhere as far as I know.. Suddenly well, there is more than one star born, and oh maybe eight wizards were gifted soul fire.. So that makes Harry not so special after all for starters... Then saying when they mix soul fire with necromancy it has bad results? What I am saying why would an archangel give it to someone who'd do that in the first place?
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That's my point, it isn't anywhere as far as I know..
As far as you know there isn't a reference in any of JB's published DF works that mentions how many wizards got soulfire or it's affect casting Necromancy? The only one I recall was Uriel talking about it being a gift to Harry because he resisted Lashiel. I myself don't recall any other mentions about other wizards having it nor any using it with Necromancy.
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As far as you know there isn't a reference in any of JB's published DF works that mentions how many wizards got soulfire or it's affect casting Necromancy? The only one I recall was Uriel talking about it being a gift to Harry because he resisted Lashiel. I myself don't recall any other mentions about other wizards having it nor any using it with Necromancy.
Nor I, and up until I read Jim's answer in this thread, I thought Harry was the only one and that was really a special gift. Now we know, maybe not so much.. ???
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There will be drawbacks. He will loose his principles, the loyalty of his followers and he already lost a friend. At some point he will probably loose Gard’s respect as the fallen will influence his personality.
He will loose his soul.
true. But Harry having studied magic his whole life isn't crap compared to Marcone right now... Unless Marcone doesn't actually know all the magic he was using and was heavily relying on Namshiel to act for him in lieu of actual knowledge/experience.. it just seems so off to me. Perhaps if Harry had picked up Lasciels coin he really would have been a beast with what he could do .
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I suspect that Marcone has both a crash course in specific magic, power granted from a Fallen Angel (since Marcone didn't have a lot in the tank by himself), and Namshiel running co-pilot to assist.
Likely at the end of BG, Marcone had two issues. First, he wasn't it was worth trying to keep the eye from other interested parties. Second, throwing down with Harry isn't a sure thing (fortune seems to favor him). Third, killing Harry might spark conflict with Mab, the White Council (at least at that point), or even Odin.
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Marcone hasn't, but Namshiel is a Fallen Angel, so yeah...
I'm not happy with that, yeah I know, not my call, but... So since at least one of the wizards who got soulfire, also used it with necromancy, does that say that archangels are really bad a judging the people they are giving the soulfire to? Or because of free will they don't think it is their problem?
Sorry but it was Marcone at the wheel for that stuff by the looks of it.
As for soulfire, keep in mind that the first guy we see them give it to is a guy that had a 1/3 chance of going full Kemmler two years after he got it.
There will be drawbacks. He will loose his principles, the loyalty of his followers and he already lost a friend. At some point he will probably loose Gard’s respect as the fallen will influence his personality.
He will loose his soul.
There was that whole scene where he had to be coaxed into not letting civilians be slaughtered for one example of this.
true. But Harry having studied magic his whole life isn't crap compared to Marcone right now... Unless Marcone doesn't actually know all the magic he was using and was heavily relying on Namshiel to act for him in lieu of actual knowledge/experience.. it just seems so off to me. Perhaps if Harry had picked up Lasciels coin he really would have been a beast with what he could do .
Both off and completely in line with Lash's tempting offers.
As for Harry with Lasciel, depends on if he would actually take the training or if he'd decide just spamming hellfire would get him in less debt to her.
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That's my point, it isn't anywhere as far as I know.. Suddenly well, there is more than one star born, and oh maybe eight wizards were gifted soul fire.. So that makes Harry not so special after all for starters... Then saying when they mix soul fire with necromancy it has bad results? What I am saying why would an archangel give it to someone who'd do that in the first place?
Eight wizards in 52000 years of himanity, assuming wizardry started with people. I mean, Gilgamesh having had it would change nothing.
We always knew that Elaine was also probably starborn. Listens isn't a Harry level talent.
Also, I posted before: I think it is the White Court, and an attempt by the soulfire wielder at true ressurection using necromancy. Not evil, that.
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Hasn't Jim said that Drakul was a scion, i.e. the child of something monstrous and a human? How does that relate to him being Starborn?
Explicitly the opposite. Someone asked at a Q&A what Drakul was a scion of, and the WOJ was "He's something entirely inhuman that got trapped in human form."
I'm not sure whether Vlad II was his 'cover identity' to interact with the world, or a cultist who fostered his son Vlad III as his own.
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I'm liking the dead Dragon theory.
- St. George kills a Dragon (using the Spear of Destiny maybe?)
- Later, the Order of St. George is founded.
- Even later, a leader known for using "ruthless methods" to maintain power, founds the Order of the Dragon, modeling it after Order of St. George but named for the Dragon rather than the Saint.
- The symbol of the order is a dragon restrained by its own tail.
- Vlad II, a Starborn, joins the Order, and is chosen to act as host to a Dragon mantle.
- Vlad II receives the constructed mantle, becoming something inhuman trapped in human form, taking the moniker 'Drakul'/'Dracul'.
- When his son Vlad III doesn't live up to his expectations, Junior becomes a Black Court vampire to give himself power and impress his dad.
- Junior founds the Black Court to organize the vampires; while unimpressed, Drakul sees the value and takes control after his son is killed.
This allows for Drakul to largely conform to the historical record, allows for Dracula to both found the Black Court *and* become a Blamp as an act of rebellion (meaning the Blamp type can be older than just the 1400's), and allows for a method for the Court to become associated with Drakul.
What other facts/WoJ on the subject would need to be addressed/incorporated?
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Didn't Michael make reference between Satan and the BCVs? Can't remember beyond,"blood of the dragon, that old foe." It was in GP
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There was that whole scene where he had to be coaxed into not letting civilians be slaughtered for one example of this.
Including children in danger.
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And like I said, Sigrun is going to be *pissed* if she and Hendricks didn't know about the coin, and Hendricks died to protect Marcone when his life wasn't really in danger.