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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Mira on August 03, 2020, 01:10:01 PM
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I realize this is skating on very thin touchy topics thin ice here, but it is an important question. If her life is in that much danger from the Hunger, why doesn't Justine abort the pregancy? Why didn't Thomas insist on it to save her life? Or is there something about the embryo Hunger that makes an abortion medically impossible? Or is there something else going on,like a possible power struggle among those in the White Court that depends on a viable pregnancy? Thomas must of talked to Lara about it, is that why she talked to Mab about cashing in on favors owed?
Something weird is going on here. Thomas told Harry in effect that White Court Vamps for all intents and purposes are sterile, or "all but sterile" as he put it. He and Justine still used birth control in spite of that, yet she still got pregnant. The pregnancy threatens Justine's life,big time,but there is no move to end it. Yeah,to end it would be heart breaking for both of them, but would Thomas's heart be less broken if he loses Justine? Are they banking on the fact that because this baby was the result of their true love, the Hunger might just burn itself out? If they are, Thomas didn't say anything to Harry about that hope.
Going a couple of steps back, what if the pregnancy itself was a set up? Has someone pulled supernatural strings to make it possible in the first place, setting off this whole chain of events?
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I realize this is skating on very thin touchy topics thin ice here, but it is an important question. If her life is in that much danger from the Hunger, why doesn't Justine abort the pregancy? Why didn't Thomas insist on it to save her life? Or is there something about the embryo Hunger that makes an abortion medically impossible? Or is there something else going on,like a possible power struggle among those in the White Court that depends on a viable pregnancy? Thomas must of talked to Lara about it, is that why she talked to Mab about cashing in on favors owed?
Something weird is going on here. Thomas told Harry in effect that White Court Vamps for all intents a purposes are sterile, or "all but sterile" as he put it. He and Justine still used birth control in spite of that, yet she still got pregnant. The pregnancy threatens Justine's life,big time,but there is no move to end it. Yeah,to end it would be heart breaking for both of them, but would Thomas's heart be less broken if he loses Justine?
Going a couple of steps back, what if the pregnancy itself was a set up? Has someone pulled supernatural strings to make it possible in the first place, setting off this whole chain of events?
Maybe the hunger would resist an abortion? It could be dangerous for the mother and the hospital staff.
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Maybe the hunger would resist an abortion? It could be dangerous for the mother and the hospital staff.
Yet, nothing is said about that either way. What is weird also is how clueless Harry is when Thomas tells him in the first place. Instead of questioning him on whether or not he and Justine considered ending the pregnancy, Harry talks about how Thomas will be great as a father...
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Yet, nothing is said about that either way. What is weird also is how clueless Harry is when Thomas tells him in the first place. Instead of questioning him on whether or not he and Justine considered ending the pregnancy, Harry talks about how Thomas will be great as a father...
Harry's reaction is understandable. I would be very reluctant to ask about abortion when someone tells me his wife is pregnant. I assume that if someone tells me they already have decided to keep the child and then starting about abortion would be wrong on so many levels.
We do not know what Thomas and Justine brought to their decision but those decisions are seldom completely rational anyway.
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The White Court probably frown on abortion, their reproduction rate is tiny, so any child, especially from the main Raith line is precious.Lara obviously didn’t know. Thomas may have been asking for asylum for him, Justine and the baby to get out the White Courts clutches from Etri when the incident occurred, whether Eb, or Evanna or someone else turned it into an attack.
Swartalves are logical, but could this be as simple as a scorned lover, and poor timing “hello Evanna, I am bringing my girlfriend who is having my baby to live here under Asylum/Guest Right? Don’t worry it won’t affect our arrangement, I still need to feed” “Thomas, you are now under my influence, here’s a bomb, set it off near my brother and he will never give you Guest Right/Asylum, and he will likely have you killed as well, you swine.
Justine was nearly devoured once in her entirety by Thomas hunger, it took her years to recover, the baby’s hunger has to be a significant risk.
Just listening to the audiobook Eb ‘do you know what these hosts of yours are capable of” Eb is very prejudiced about the Swartalves. This is the conversation about Maggie.
Harry himself is full of being a full time father, so of course he assumes Thomas wants to be as well, projection.
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Harry's reaction is understandable. I would be very reluctant to ask about abortion when someone tells me his wife is pregnant. I assume that if someone tells me they already have decided to keep the child and then starting about abortion would be wrong on so many levels.
We do not know what Thomas and Justine brought to their decision but those decisions are seldom completely rational anyway.
Suddenly in the middle of this conversation, enter Carlos and up and coming talks and him wanting Harry on security detail. Great misdirection because the conversation about the decision never comes up. Perhaps Harry wouldn't ask, "have you considered aborting?" At the same time Harry never asked if there is any way to keep the mother safe? Or never got the chance. I still think this has everything to do with the wheel dealing that went on off page between Mab and Lara.
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Suddenly in the middle of this conversation, enter Carlos and up and coming talks and him wanting Harry on security detail. Great misdirection because the conversation about the decision never comes up. Perhaps Harry wouldn't ask, "have you considered aborting?" At the same time Harry never asked if there is any way to keep the mother safe? Or never got the chance. I still think this has everything to do with the wheel dealing that went on off page between Mab and Lara.
Except Lara didn't know about the baby.
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Except Lara didn't know about the baby.
You don't know that for sure, I am not sure she is telling the truth here, especially if it is related at all to the current events. Lara needs plausible deniability.. Also logically if Justine is in that much danger from the embryo Hunger, who is Thomas going to consult first? His brother, who is a powerful wizard but hardly an expert on gestating White Court Hunger demons? Or his sister, who has been around a lot longer than both of them and seen a lot of pregnancies of this nature including Margaret Lefay? Thomas admitted to doing a bit of research on the subject. Just connecting the dots, I think it is all related.
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You don't know that for sure, I am not sure she is telling the truth here, especially if it is related at all to the current events. Lara needs plausible deniability.. Also logically if Justine is in that much danger from the embryo Hunger, who is Thomas going to consult first? His brother, who is a powerful wizard but hardly an expert on gestating White Court Hunger demons? Or his sister, who has been around a lot longer than both of them and seen a lot of pregnancies of this nature including Margaret Lefay? Thomas admitted to doing a bit of research on the subject. Just connecting the dots, I think it is all related.
He trusts his brother more than his sister.
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He trusts his brother more than his sister.
Maybe, but the Thomas at the end of Turn Coat trusted his sister a lot more than his brother on matters concerning White Court Vamps. Remember their talk in the zoo?
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His brother is a parent, Lara isn’t although except perhaps to Thomas.
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Maybe, but the Thomas at the end of Turn Coat trusted his sister a lot more than his brother on matters concerning White Court Vamps. Remember their talk in the zoo?
That was actually a big sign saying "Here is something wrong"
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His brother is a parent, Lara isn’t although except perhaps to Thomas.
But she has witnessed at least one human, be it a wizard giving birth to a vamp baby.. Margaret. So did she survive because she was a wizard? Or was it something else that was done? What happened to the little sister's mom?
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But she has witnessed at least one human, be it a wizard giving birth to a vamp baby.. Margaret. So did she survive because she was a wizard? Or was it something else that was done? What happened to the little sister's mom?
Being a wizard should help. She just had a bigger tank than the average human.
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I suspect Lord Raith didn’t care about the mothers, so long as the child survived and was a girl that was all he cared about.
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I suspect Lord Raith didn’t care about the mothers, so long as the child survived and was a girl that was all he cared about.
No, he didn't but if Lara was there helping to care for the babies that were born, presumably she cared.
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Harry's reaction is understandable. I would be very reluctant to ask about abortion when someone tells me his wife is pregnant. I assume that if someone tells me they already have decided to keep the child and then starting about abortion would be wrong on so many levels.
We do not know what Thomas and Justine brought to their decision but those decisions are seldom completely rational anyway.
I mean, seriously. I would never ask anyone who said they were pregnant if they were considering an abortion... talk about an extremely out of line question. If they bring it up, sure, then it's open to discussion within the context that it is brought up.
Also, why on earth would a fantasy writer go down that path? Just seems like a great way to piss off half of his audience, whichever way it is handled.
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It’s how Thomas survived.
I wonder if the succubi have an even lower fertility rate than the inccubi, we have only seen one Whamp mother Whamp child relationship.
What if in over a thousand years, a female Whamp can expect only to conceive once? However in that case, I suspect the Whamp mother is eating for two.
Thomas is the only surviving son of Lord Raith, if a boy this makes the child incredibly valuable to House Riath, a way of ending the reproductive bottle neck House Raith has found itself in.
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A vampire mother should be easier, just feed more.
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I mean, seriously. I would never ask anyone who said they were pregnant if they were considering an abortion... talk about an extremely out of line question. If they bring it up, sure, then it's open to discussion within the context that it is brought up.
Also, why on earth would a fantasy writer go down that path? Just seems like a great way to piss off half of his audience, whichever way it is handled.
I agree entirely. As to your second part, why would he bring it up if the answer is no? It would be bringing up a touchy topic just so that everyone who feels strongly that abortion is wrong has a reason to not like Harry for bringing it up.
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I mean, seriously. I would never ask anyone who said they were pregnant if they were considering an abortion... talk about an extremely out of line question. If they bring it up, sure, then it's open to discussion within the context that it is brought up.
Even if it meant certain death for the mother? Under normal circumstances you wouldn't ask that.. But we are talking the exception here, the life of the mother.
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Even if it meant certain death for the mother? Under normal circumstances you wouldn't ask that.. But we are talking the exception here, the life of the mother.
It's not certain, even here. Just high risk.
Justine, recall, essentially has extra soul- it's the base of her relationship with Thomas.
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I think bringing up abortion is an easy way to be sure you never have to talk together again, no matter the circumstances.
I think the real world equivalent of this dilemma is almost exactly the same thing and I cannot see bringing up abortion as ever ending well for anyone outside of the relationship, except a purely professional relation (e.g. the doctor).
The fact they they will most likely never ever get another kid is not making the subject any less touchy.
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I think bringing up abortion is an easy way to be sure you never have to talk together again, no matter the circumstances.
I think the real world equivalent of this dilemma is almost exactly the same thing and I cannot see bringing up abortion as ever ending well for anyone outside of the relationship, except a purely professional relation (e.g. the doctor).
The fact they they will most likely never ever get another kid is not making the subject any less touchy.
First of all, Harry isn't demanding anything. And yeah, if Justine dies Thomas will never get another kid. If knowing how much Thomas loves Justine, and his own concern for Justine, who apparently is almost certain to die here, first Harry would ask, is there any way to prevent the Hunger from feeding on her to the point where she will die giving birth? If the answer is no, then he might say there is a choice... For Justine it might be out of the question, she is willing to risk it.. For Thomas, Justine might be more important than the baby.. Bringing up the subject in this case shouldn't end any relationship Harry and Thomas have. It isn't out of the question that Thomas and Justine talked about it and decided, what ever they decided, it their decision.
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Your kind of forgetting that Harry has been in Justine’s position, he delivered his child whole and healthy.
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Even if it meant certain death for the mother? Under normal circumstances you wouldn't ask that.. But we are talking the exception here, the life of the mother.
You have a point, but I still don't know if I'd ever bring it up. If I were in Harry's shoes (I'd be a whimpering pile of neuroses, but that's beside the point), I might ask, "How can I help her through this?" But I cannot imagine jumping right to, "Have you considered aborting it?"
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We also should consider the True Love angle, IMO.
It's never been adequately explained what is and isn't part of it, but in a normal human relationship "wanting the other's children" is a quite common part of it. Not obligatory, but a common part anyway. I would certainly think 'sacrificing the product of our love (i.e. the child) for our love (i.e. Justine)' would complicate the love itself.
It could still be love, just not the ultra-rare True Love.
(and of course, no way Harry would bring it up. I mean... seriously. At least over here you don't bring that up, mostly because it's common to only tell people about pregnancies when it's slightly advanced so you've sort of already decided... so bringing it up would be second-guessing, too).
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Your kind of forgetting that Harry has been in Justine’s position, he delivered his child whole and healthy.
His daughter was already born, he never knew about her until she was six years old. Also as a fetus, little Maggie didn't have a Hunger Demon feeding off of Susan till the point of most likely dying giving birth. No, I am not forgetting, Harry was never in Justine or Thomas's position. He did chose to kill the mother to save the child, himself, and his grandfather... Susan agreed.
You have a point, but I still don't know if I'd ever bring it up. If I were in Harry's shoes (I'd be a whimpering pile of neuroses, but that's beside the point), I might ask, "How can I help her through this?" But I cannot imagine jumping right to, "Have you considered aborting it?"
No, that wouldn't or shouldn't be the first words out of Harry's mouth.. On the other hand that conversation never got to take place because with in minutes of that Carlos showed up. I am not sure either if the implications of the danger to Justine or Thomas' fear for her had sunk in yet. Harry's reply was mostly about the trials of becoming a father, what he was going through.
(and of course, no way Harry would bring it up. I mean... seriously. At least over here you don't bring that up, mostly because it's common to only tell people about pregnancies when it's slightly advanced so you've sort of already decided... so bringing it up would be second-guessing, too).
What is odd, if people are right in their calculations that Justine is only six weeks pregnant, most women don't even know at that point. Especially if she is on birth control, supposedly Thomas is "for intents, sterile," two weeks late for your cycle could mean a lot of things. We don't even know if she is regular.. Some women aren't. Yeah, I know she got a test, still, has she been to a doctor yet?
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His daughter was already born, he never knew about her until she was six years old.
Pretty sure the reference is to Bonea, not Maggie. That "birth" could easily have killed Harry without Molly's help. It's not biological exactly, but the situation is not that dissimilar.
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(and of course, no way Harry would bring it up. I mean... seriously.
Yeah, this. Not only for the general "social" reasons, but remember how Harry feels about family! I just don't think it would occur to him.
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My experience would be, Thomas wouldn't bring it up if that was the decision, they'd just have done it.
If he wanted help convincing Justine, he might approach his brother privately.
This reads like anxiety about fatherhood, and he's not reaching out to his father on it- leaves his brother, who does have kids
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My experience would be, Thomas wouldn't bring it up if that was the decision, they'd just have done it.
If he wanted help convincing Justine, he might approach his brother privately.
This reads like anxiety about fatherhood, and he's not reaching out to his father on it- leaves his brother, who does have kids
Possibly, but it also might be a hard subject for Thomas to bring up. All he talked about was the danger to Justine, not whether or not he'd make a good father. That is how Harry read it I think, but that is opinion. However before the subject got much further, as in Harry asking Thomas how come their mother survived or have any others survived, Carlos showed up.
Pretty sure the reference is to Bonea, not Maggie. That "birth" could easily have killed Harry without Molly's help. It's not biological exactly, but the situation is not that dissimilar.
Actually Harry didn't have a whole lot of choice, remember it was simply called "the parasite," by the time he knew what it was, Bonea was too far into the process and couldn't be easily removed. Also Mab used the extreme pain Harry felt from her being in his head as leverage. Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death. So, no, not the same at all.
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My wife was completely certain by six weeks both times.
I have tried typing out answers on why it makes sense Harry does not suggest abortion. But l can't detail it more and not make it more personal than what is appropriate for a forum discussion. So I will just leave it at the factual info above.
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Actually Harry didn't have a whole lot of choice, remember it was simply called "the parasite," by the time he knew what it was, Bonea was too far into the process and couldn't be easily removed.
Yeah, Harry didn't have much clue of what was going on (because Mab kept him away from Molly).
Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death. So, no, not the same at all.
Right- what I said was without Molly's help it probably would have killed him. Which is what Mab said would happen, and avoiding that is part of why Harry had to work with Nicodemus (rather than stay on Demonreach where even Mab probably couldn't get at him).
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Right- what I said was without Molly's help it probably would have killed him. Which is what Mab said would happen, and avoiding that is part of why Harry had to work with Nicodemus (rather than stay on Demonreach where even Mab probably couldn't get at him).
Point, Harry didn't want to die, he wasn't willing to go along with the high risk of dying so Bonea could live. Mab had him by the short hairs so to speak..
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Point, Harry didn't want to die, he wasn't willing to go along with the high risk of dying so Bonea could live. Mab had him by the short hairs so to speak..
Oh yeah it's not directly parallel.
I think it might still be emotionally relevant, though (in the sense that it all worked out and Harry now, looking back on it, wouldn't want Bonea not to have been born).
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Oh yeah it's not directly parallel.
I think it might still be emotionally relevant, though (in the sense that it all worked out and Harry now, looking back on it, wouldn't want Bonea not to have been born).
Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.
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It's not certain, even here. Just high risk.
Justine, recall, essentially has extra soul- it's the base of her relationship with Thomas.
Now that is an interesting thought. But does she still have extra after nearly dying in BR?
I also wonder if Justine's on-and-off True Love protection will alter the parameters.
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Souls regenerate if given time and opportunity like spending time with loved ones. The domestic bliss shown in Thomas’s Apartment shows that this is likely. Indeed it may have been what triggered the pregnancy.
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Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.
At best, Harry was a surrogate vessel for Bonea's development. It was subconscious Harry or his Id that was the father, I'm willing to bet that conscious Harry wouldn't have wanted anything to do with fathering a child with Lash. So again, not close.
Souls regenerate if given time and opportunity like spending time with loved ones. The domestic bliss shown in Thomas’s Apartment shows that this is likely. Indeed it may have been what triggered the pregnancy.
I am not sure this has much to do with the true love protection as far as the White Court goes. We've had this debate before and apparently rape can destroy it, or a one night stand can destroy it. It seemingly is all about the sex act itself and nothing to do with "true love feelings." One in a moment of weakness or under the influence of alcohol or drugs, can have a one night stand, but still truly love someone else, so even though your still feel true love, your protection is gone. It isn't about soul regeneration, Thomas and Justine still love one another truly, she lost her protection from his touch because she has what was for her merely physical pleasure sex with another.
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True Love and soul regeneration are separate but related concepts, Harry’s use of Soulfire is analogous to feeding by a hunger, if both are overdone there is nothing left. If time goes by, especially spent in satisfying fulfilling activities then it helps the sole regenerate faster.
Maggie in that respect is a power up for Harry, as is Murphy. Just doing the ordinary loving day to day stuff with them allows his soul to recover much faster. Mouse and Mister also help his soul recover (but if you read Misters POV story “Everything the Light Touches”, it clearly isn’t reciprocated by Mister to the large monkey). Time spent with the Carpenters and Thomas and Eb and the Alphas help. Some of these will have been taken away from him.
Christmas Eve shows a Harry at a low point he will have used Soulfire extensively in Battle Field, cheering him up isn’t just about making him feel better, it’s about refilling his tank for the next time he needs Soulfire. That’s what Mab and Kringle and Uriel (in Christmas with the Carpenters) are doing making sure that his soul grew three sizes.
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Justine didn't abort the child because it would have eliminated the theme Jim wanted to use. And it would have inevitably offended some readers. And a non zero chance of having a child is exactly what it says. Nearly sterile is not sterile. Thousands of couples learn this each year, with the whiney refrain, I didn't think I would get pregnant. That's the answer to the question as unsatisfying as it is.
In the text the answer could be as simple as, Thomas and Justine believe that the child is more important then the risk. Which doesn't mean that Thomas wouldn't sell his soul to the devil to have both the child and Justine.
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Narrativity, not just Nativity.
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Justine didn't abort the child because it would have eliminated the theme Jim wanted to use. And it would have inevitably offended some readers. And a non zero chance of having a child is exactly what it says. Nearly sterile is not sterile. Thousands of couples learn this each year, with the whiney refrain, I didn't think I would get pregnant. That's the answer to the question as unsatisfying as it is.
In the text the answer could be as simple as, Thomas and Justine believe that the child is more important then the risk. Which doesn't mean that Thomas wouldn't sell his soul to the devil to have both the child and Justine.
Agree with all of that.
True Love and soul regeneration are separate but related concepts, Harry’s use of Soulfire is analogous to feeding by a hunger, if both are overdone there is nothing left. If time goes by, especially spent in satisfying fulfilling activities then it helps the sole regenerate faster.
Possibly, but not as a concept of protection from the White Court in my opinion. Several years ago we went around and around on this subject. One can have true love with more than one person, Harry has shown that. However protection from being fed upon it is very fragile and a bit complex.
True love should be and is totality of heart,mind,and soul, the physical not so much.. Still, the simple act of Justine having loveless sex breaks the protection from being touched or fed upon. What she feels for Thomas is still true love, but she is no longer protected..
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Justine, who apparently is almost certain to die here.
According to the family records, just over fifty percent either don’t survive the delivery or die shortly after.
That's not even close to almost certain. Given advances in medical care over the decades and likely centuries the family records go back, it's probably more likely than not that Justine will survive the pregnancy. A certain, or even large, percentage of that death was likely due to mundane causes, especially when combined with the mother's weakened state. From the 1700's through the invention of antibiotics, the mortality rate for mothers was 400-500 per 100,000 in Britain. Today in the U.S. it's 15 per 100,000.
Especially if she is on birth control, supposedly Thomas is "for intents, sterile," two weeks late for your cycle could mean a lot of things.
And my kind are all but infertile to boot.
All but infertile and for all intents and purposes sterile are not the same thing. For example, for all intents and purposes sterile could mean that one could conceive, but the pregnancy would end before any noticeable physiological effects. All but infertile means very nearly or all except. So either Thomas isn't infertile at all because he's an exception to the general rule, or all wamps are just very unlikely to impregnate a woman (or get pregnant for the females) in any given attempt. Eventually unlikely things happen given enough repetitions.
Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death. So, no, not the same at all.
After Harry found out, Murphy said they'll "get that parasite out of your head." Harry responds that they "can't kill the parasite. We have to save it." Emphasis added. Also, without Molly, it did mean certain death for Harry. I'm not going to lay odds on what were the chances of Molly arriving in time because all we know is that she did. So outside of the slightly more likely to die than live probability being just unknown, it's exactly the same situation Justine is in. I think this shows that Harry wouldn't even consider abortion.
Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.
Harry has had experience in choosing between his True Love and his child, so he's got the exact experience Thomas needs.
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Justine, who apparently is almost certain to die here.
According to the family records, just over fifty percent either don’t survive the delivery or die shortly after.
That's not even close to almost certain. Given advances in medical care over the decades and likely centuries the family records go back, it's probably more likely than not that Justine will survive the pregnancy. A certain, or even large, percentage of that death was likely due to mundane causes, especially when combined with the mother's weakened state. From the 1700's through the invention of antibiotics, the mortality rate for mothers was 400-500 per 100,000 in Britain. Today in the U.S. it's 15 per 100,000.
Especially if she is on birth control, supposedly Thomas is "for intents, sterile," two weeks late for your cycle could mean a lot of things.
And my kind are all but infertile to boot.
All but infertile and for all intents and purposes sterile are not the same thing. For example, for all intents and purposes sterile could mean that one could conceive, but the pregnancy would end before any noticeable physiological effects. All but infertile means very nearly or all except. So either Thomas isn't infertile at all because he's an exception to the general rule, or all wamps are just very unlikely to impregnate a woman (or get pregnant for the females) in any given attempt. Eventually unlikely things happen given enough repetitions.
Also even with Molly's help, giving "birth" to her meant he'd live, not his almost certain death. So, no, not the same at all.
After Harry found out, Murphy said they'll "get that parasite out of your head." Harry responds that they "can't kill the parasite. We have to save it." Emphasis added. Also, without Molly, it did mean certain death for Harry. I'm not going to lay odds on what were the chances of Molly arriving in time because all we know is that she did. So outside of the slightly more likely to die than live probability being just unknown, it's exactly the same situation Justine is in. I think this shows that Harry wouldn't even consider abortion.
Exactly, Harry’s opinion as a mother is valid in this context, as a father not so much.
Harry has had experience in choosing between his True Love and his child, so he's got the exact experience Thomas needs.
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What she feels for Thomas is still true love, but she is no longer protected..
Thomas explains in BR that Susan is still the strongest influence on Harry's ... aura or whatever.
It's not just being in True Love that's poisonous to the Raiths, it's specifically having True Love aura-exchange bits stuck on top of your aura.
I think it's analogous to someone getting covered in poison then taking a shower. The second liquid removes the first.
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That's not even close to almost certain. Given advances in medical care over the decades and likely centuries the family records go back, it's probably more likely than not that Justine will survive the pregnancy. A certain, or even large, percentage of that death was likely due to mundane causes, especially when combined with the mother's weakened state. From the 1700's through the invention of antibiotics, the mortality rate for mothers was 400-500 per 100,000 in Britain. Today in the U.S. it's 15 per 100,000. All but infertile and for all intents and purposes sterile are not the same thing. For example, for all intents and purposes sterile could mean that one could conceive, but the pregnancy would end before any noticeable physiological effects. All but infertile means very nearly or all except. So either Thomas isn't infertile at all because he's an exception to the general rule, or all wamps are just very unlikely to impregnate a woman (or get pregnant for the females) in any given attempt. Eventually unlikely things happen given enough repetitions. After Harry found out, Murphy said they'll "get that parasite out of your head." Harry responds that they "can't kill the parasite. We have to save it." Emphasis added. Also, without Molly, it did mean certain death for Harry. I'm not going to lay odds on what were the chances of Molly arriving in time because all we know is that she did. So outside of the slightly more likely to die than live probability being just unknown, it's exactly the same situation Justine is in. I think this shows that Harry wouldn't even consider abortion.
Harry has had experience in choosing between his True Love and his child, so he's got the exact experience Thomas needs.
Killing the “parasite” would have been an abortion. So Harry has relevant experience as a mother and a strong emotional urge to keep the child.
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Killing the “parasite” would have been an abortion. So Harry has relevant experience as a mother and a strong emotional urge to keep the child.
Would it?? At the time all he knew was it was a parasite! That is what Mab called it, it could have been a tape worm that had wandered off and encysted in his brain, parasites can do that. What is more he had been to C.I. in the middle of a jungle, so he could very well have picked up such a thing. Until he was told what it was in Skin Game all Harry knew was he had something in his head that caused him severe pain to the point of passing out. Yes, it had helped the blood to circulate when he was in a coma, but it could have been anything. All he wanted was for it to stop, when he found out what it was, he had no choice, it had been there too long and he was going to die unless Molly assisted in it's birth.
Thomas explains in BR that Susan is still the strongest influence on Harry's ... aura or whatever.
The protection burned Lara in White Night, four years after Susan, because Harry hadn't been with any other woman. As soon as he and Luccio got together and had sex, his protection ended. What he had with Luccio was never true love. Murphy is different, and he is once again protected.
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Would it?? At the time all he knew was it was a parasite! That is what Mab called it, it could have been a tape worm that had wandered off and encysted in his brain, parasites can do that. What is more he had been to C.I. in the middle of a jungle, so he could very well have picked up such a thing. Until he was told what it was in Skin Game all Harry knew was he had something in his head that caused him severe pain to the point of passing out. Yes, it had helped the blood to circulate when he was in a coma, but it could have been anything. All he wanted was for it to stop, when he found out what it was, he had no choice, it had been there too long and he was going to die unless Molly assisted in it's birth.
As soon as he knew. He did not even think about other solutions.
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As soon as he knew. He did not even think about other solutions.
Well, it isn't like he had any time to think about another solution? ??? Mab also had him a bit over a barrow, she put a thingie in his ear to stop the pain so he could carry out his orders.. Apparently only Molly could help him,or so Mab said, and she wasn't going to let Molly come any where near him until the mission was finished.. All of that came in pretty rapid succession, not much time to think anything through.. And this was something you would want to think through. ::)
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After Harry found out, Murphy said they'll "get that parasite out of your head." Harry responds that they "can't kill the parasite. We have to save it." Emphasis added.
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After Harry found out, Murphy said they'll "get that parasite out of your head." Harry responds that they "can't kill the parasite. We have to save it." Emphasis added.
I don't think he was ever given that option.
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I don't think he was ever given that option.
That's completely irrelevant to my point.
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That's completely irrelevant to my point.
No, it isn't, by the time Harry found out what was in his head, the "parasite" couldn't simply be killed and removed without harming him.. In Justine's case it is very early in the pregnancy..
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No, it isn't, by the time Harry found out what was in his head, the "parasite" couldn't simply be killed and removed without harming him.. In Justine's case it is very early in the pregnancy..
Do you know what my point is? Because that's irrelevant to my point. If you can tell me what you think my point is, I can try to clear up the miscommunication.