ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: vultur on August 01, 2020, 04:31:28 AM
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After Ethniu kicks Mab through the wall, LaChaise says the Accords are broken, and Vadderung and Ferrovax argue that they have to stop Ethniu because otherwise mortals will retaliate against all supernaturals.
But why do they care? OK, there's a WOJ that Odin likes hanging out in the mortal world even though it makes him more vulnerable, so him I can see. Plus he probably wants to keep collecting Einherjar.
But Ferrovax? Implicitly he's geologically old; he's not going to have a human sense of time. And per WOJ he's too powerful to really do much in the mortal world anyway, without messing things up.
Why doesn't he just pop into the Nevernever for 500 or 1,000 years? Probably by then no one would believe the stories about what happened in Chicago way back then... (I mean, in the DV at one time magic was widely believed in, but now it's not. So why wouldn't it be "forgotten" again in the same way?)
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Perhaps Ferrovax has some sort of Duty not in the NN? Power in the DV comes with restrictions and responsibilities, typically.
As another guess, if the Fomor get their way, one side or the other may annihilate each other entirely so there's nothing to come back to in a few centuries.
As a third guess, Ferrovax might prefer the Accords to be in place. If you're not interested in making enemies, they're pretty good at protecting you. Ferro is part of the Accords and he honors his word, so sitting this fight out isn't an option.
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Because a thousand years later he won't be remembered and he'll just drift into nothingness?
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Because he does not want the outsiders to break through the outer gates and the apocalypse to break down this reality. He knows what is at stake.
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Because he is keeping an eye on Odin, they counter balance each other if he is indeed the Midgard Serpent.
Beowulf slew the Dragon and died from his wounds, St Nicholas charmed a dragon menacing a village and got it to stop. Stories of stalemate. Working together is a whole new surprise for them, but they are crusty old entities of their word and both had given it to Mab.
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That charmed a dragon story also has connotations to Odin and Fenrir and being consumed by the creature you slay... It's where I got the idea St Patrick cursed his own bloodline to contain the loop garu, when it had been in a more free to kill form before that.
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You kind of get the idea they have been at this a long, long time.
Odin was also probably St George, Sigurd etc here is a list of possible alias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonslayer
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And... I think you just made me realize why the Valkyrie chick equates River Shoulders to grindelkin... Dragons were responsible for landscaping basically, Strength of River in his Shoulders is the same thing on a smaller scale, someone who has the power of the land itself..(or to carve the land, as a river literally does) Perhaps it's literally a blood heritage. Dragon bornish type thing
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Because a thousand years later he won't be remembered and he'll just drift into nothingness?
Maybe. It could be an Oblivion thing.
Perhaps Ferrovax has some sort of Duty not in the NN?
Maybe, but I thought the Dragons (like most gods) were basically 'retired'. Even Odin describes himself as "mostly retired" and he seems far more active than most.
As another guess, if the Fomor get their way, one side or the other may annihilate each other entirely so there's nothing to come back to in a few centuries.
I don't see how. Too many of the supernatural beings are dependent on humans in one way or another, so they wouldn't wipe out humanity. And mortals couldn't definitively 'win', as too many beings are either Immortal or can retreat to the Nevernever.
As a third guess, Ferrovax might prefer the Accords to be in place.
Apparently he does. I'm just not really sure why. It seems kind of weird to me... I mean, they're specifically Mab's Accords, which means they must be a new innovation on Ferrovax's timescale (Mab is relatively young as immortals go - she's younger than Nicodemus).
I'd kind of expect an ancient force of nature to resent some new set of rules that constrain him to deal as basically an equal with wizards and vampires and ghouls and other beings that are comparative gnats... I mean he seems pretty disdainful of humanity in GP.
Because he is keeping an eye on Odin, they counter balance each other if he is indeed the Midgard Serpent.
Not really, the Midgard Serpent is Thor's fated foe, not Odin's. (Odin's is Fenrir.)
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He’s keeping Thor away from a Ferro which is why the stalemate, when those two go at it then all Ragnarok breaks loose, and Odin himself will fall, by preventing those two battling Odin staves off Ragnarok, even if it means taking on Ferro himself.
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One-Eye and Ferrovax, the Senior Council, River Shoulders, Etri, and a few others suddenly went as pale as I felt
Those are the ones who know. They know what Mab’s purpose is and why. The real purpose of the accords is to strengthen the defense against the outside.
That is why Ferrofax cares.
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They are the ones who knew what they were facing.
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Because he's old and old people don't like change.
He's content with the way things are, and doesn't need things getting hectic. Because despite the fact that he's old and powerful, he *is* capable of dying.
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Because he does not want the outsiders to break through the outer gates and the apocalypse to break down this reality. He knows what is at stake.
He also received a gift from Bianca, handed out by Cowl and Kumori. Maybe he's not infected, but relying on his interest in stopping the outsiders might be a mistake.
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If I were Cowl, the gift would affect Ferro’s Hoard. Get a Dragon by the Hoard, and you have their undivided attention.
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Because he's old and old people don't like change.
But wouldn't that apply to signing on to the Accords in the first place? I think they're very new on Ferro's timescale.
Because despite the fact that he's old and powerful, he *is* capable of dying.
If he is (and Ferrovax might very well be a true Immortal), to me that would be more of an argument Not To Get Involved. Why sign on to Accords that might obligate him to get into fights like this one? Why risk himself for something like this?
I mean, Ferrovax is implicitly geologically old. He's seen many civilizations rise and fall.
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But wouldn't that apply to signing on to the Accords in the first place? I think they're very new on Ferro's timescale.
If he is (and Ferrovax might very well be a true Immortal), to me that would be more of an argument Not To Get Involved. Why sign on to Accords that might obligate him to get into fights like this one? Why risk himself for something like this?
I mean, Ferrovax is implicitly geologically old. He's seen many civilizations rise and fall.
Ferro's an elder Dragon, but Siriothrax was his contemporary and he died a few dozen years ago. The same rules should apply to him as they did for the one that Michael slew. So if Butters thinks Ferro has it coming, and the Sword agrees...
In short, if he's immortal, and Uber powerful, then there's no reason for him to want things to change, because there's nothing to gain, and everything to lose. It's pretty common to see those that gain power settle down and try to hold on to it through peace.
It's those that don't have power, or lost power, that are more likely to want to see the world burn. Them and Harry.
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Maybe, but I thought the Dragons (like most gods) were basically 'retired'. Even Odin describes himself as "mostly retired" and he seems far more active than most.
Permanent retirement is more of a mortal thing, though. I think extended vacation is a more apt metaphor. Maybe the job description changes in the meantime, but power in the DV is almost always linked with limitations and responsibility.
I don't see how. Too many of the supernatural beings are dependent on humans in one way or another, so they wouldn't wipe out humanity. And mortals couldn't definitively 'win', as too many beings are either Immortal or can retreat to the Nevernever.
Humans are not really necessary for the Fomor. They might actually be strong enough to take down humanity if they play it smart. They already seem comfortable enough with mortal weapons like the nerve gas the rampires got from them.
Apparently he does. I'm just not really sure why. It seems kind of weird to me... I mean, they're specifically Mab's Accords, which means they must be a new innovation on Ferrovax's timescale (Mab is relatively young as immortals go - she's younger than Nicodemus).
I'd kind of expect an ancient force of nature to resent some new set of rules that constrain him to deal as basically an equal with wizards and vampires and ghouls and other beings that are comparative gnats... I mean he seems pretty disdainful of humanity in GP.
Not really, the Midgard Serpent is Thor's fated foe, not Odin's. (Odin's is Fenrir.)
The Accords also keep other people out of Ferro's hair, likely without changing much about his daily life. Sounds like a sweet deal if you mostly want to be left alone and go out to no-name masquerade parties when the whim hits you. If other people suddenly also have to follow the rules that you basically abided by before, the Accords are a net win.
As a side-note, why is someone of Ferro's scale attending Bianca's ball at all? If I send a birthday party invitation to the queen of England, I don't expect her to actually show up. Does he just like gold that much?
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As a side-note, why is someone of Ferro's scale attending Bianca's ball at all? If I send a birthday party invitation to the queen of England, I don't expect her to actually show up. Does he just like gold that much?
He probably had a feeling something important was going to happen and he wanted to see it.
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He probably had a feeling something important was going to happen and he wanted to see it.
I guess, but "had a feeling" is pretty convenient. It would be nice if there were more to it than that.
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I guess, but "had a feeling" is pretty convenient. It would be nice if there were more to it than that.
Foresight is several times mentioned in combination with wizards, intellectus is a well known property of immortals and they all have all kinds of sources of information. As Harry said to Kringle "I just going to assume you know everything I do"
He just knew. He is magical heavyweight enough to do so.
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Foresight is several times mentioned in combination with wizards, intellectus is a well known property of immortals and they all have all kinds of sources of information. As Harry said to Kringle "I just going to assume you know everything I do"
He just knew. He is magical heavyweight enough to do so.
Information networks is a hallmark of the main players, but Ferro doesn't seem to have his hands in all sorts of pies like Odin or Mab. I'd buy they guessed something important was going on no problem, but Ferro is a harder sell. You're likely correct, though.
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Information networks is a hallmark of the main players, but Ferro doesn't seem to have his hands in all sorts of pies like Odin or Mab. I'd buy they guessed something important was going on no problem, but Ferro is a harder sell. You're likely correct, though.
Our idea about who is involved might not be always right because it is based on Harry’s impressions and these are rather Chicago centered.
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As a side-note, why is someone of Ferro's scale attending Bianca's ball at all? If I send a birthday party invitation to the queen of England, I don't expect her to actually show up. Does he just like gold that much?
He probably had a feeling something important was going to happen and he wanted to see it.
This. My current hunch is that Ferrovax's presence can be taken as a harbinger of doom.
In Grave Peril, he watched the corruption of Winter, which started with Lea accepting the athame; he watched the onset of a war that would decimate the White Council of Wizards and end the Red Court of Vampires; he almost got to see a Sword of the Cross "unmade"; and he almost got to see Mavra sacrifice of a practitioner with Cassandra's Tears after weeks of preparatory work weakening the Veil.
We still have no idea what that was supposed to accomplish, when it was the whole point of 90% of the work the bad guys did in the book. Bianca and/or Mavra got greedy and tried to introduce the Sword to the ritual, at the last minute, and turned the whole thing into a debacle. (Was that *why* Lea brought the Sword? She made a bargain that got her more power (unfortunately, tainted power) and ended up wrecking Mavra's little ritual at the same time -- how very like a fairy bargain!)
Theory: Mavra and Cowl were doing necromancy experiments, trying to redevelop Kemmler's breakthrough. If Harry hadn't been there to disrupt things, they would have pulled Lydia's ghost through the veil and eaten it -- and perhaps managed to siphon through the ghosts of the human victims of the vampire feast as well. It was a test of the soul-siphon effect that goes critical in a darkhallow. Dead Beat was the result when Grevane almost got his hands on the Word and Cowl had to move up his timeline.