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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: pcpoet on July 18, 2020, 08:47:54 PM
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Jim butcher seems to have purposely removed the archive from the story line . only an acknowledgment that she was at peace talks no interaction with Dresden...seems to me that the one character that could shed a lot of light to what is happening in peace talks is on the sideline story wise. I am guessing that battleground will feature her prominently in the story line.... I cant wait to see how she is used in battle ground or if she is even used if she is not used I hope that we get an explanation in later books. if she is in Battleground I hope that Jim butcher does some fan service and has her meeting Maggie and Bonnie
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If theories are true and ivy stopped working with Kincaid because he killed Harry, then there might be a lot of baggage to unpack in that relationship. That'd be a lot to broach in the middle of everything else.
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Yes, it was a disappointment.. Someone else close to Harry suddenly ignoring him..
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Yeah it was dissapointing, ah well hopefullly more next book. As the Archive she might have a vested interest in taking down 'The Last Titan'.
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Jim butcher seems to have purposely removed the archive from the story line . only an acknowledgment that she was at peace talks no interaction with Dresden...seems to me that the one character that could shed a lot of light to what is happening in peace talks is on the sideline story wise. I am guessing that battleground will feature her prominently in the story line.... I cant wait to see how she is used in battle ground or if she is even used if she is not used I hope that we get an explanation in later books. if she is in Battleground I hope that Jim butcher does some fan service and has her meeting Maggie and Bonnie
Peace Talks as presented would have been big, and bringing all the characters out to play in a book this short left him no choice but to severely limit the characters that have dialog. Hopefully we get this put right in Battle Ground.
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Peace Talks as presented would have been big, and bringing all the characters out to play in a book this short left him no choice but to severely limit the characters that have dialog. Hopefully we get this put right in Battle Ground.
Or maybe better choices could have been made? Maybe like in cooking one finds that sometimes
too many ingredients spoil can spoil the dish. Some ingredients over shadow the ones you wanted to enhance and others add nothing at all, instead of delighting the tongue, one is confused and disappointed.
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If theories are true and ivy stopped working with Kincaid because he killed Harry, then there might be a lot of baggage to unpack in that relationship. That'd be a lot to broach in the middle of everything else.
Not a rumor anymore. (https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/microfiction-3-con-swap-and-virtual-signing)
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Not a rumor anymore. (https://www.jim-butcher.com/posts/2020/microfiction-3-con-swap-and-virtual-signing)
Yeah, see? Way too much baggage to drop suddenly as an aside. The only thing that would work would be her being angry with Harry and him not finding out why.
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I was upset with Harry for not going over to Ivy when he saw her... I expected him to go back. Very disappointing... there better be more in battlegrounds and I would have been happier if Ivy had waved off Dresden... ‘not here’ kind of a message... then at least we would know that more will come in battlegrounds and Harry would be confused... and who doesn’t like to see Harry suffer?
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Ivy snubs Dresden, an Emissary was to be appointed from a neutral source in relation to Thomas case, she is on the list of Emissaries in a previous case. The Swartalves and the White Court would likely have approached her for that role in this. No mystery, just a book cut in half with her role as Emmissary in Battlefield. I suspect Ivy is one of the few powers who does not formally collect favours, ruling them out as neutral.
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I would imagine that Ivy is as pissed at Harry for planning to kill himself as she was with Kincaid for agreeing to help. Harry is going to have to mend fences before he can convince Ivy to help him again.
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I can see Ivy playing a short role in Battle Ground. Probably in any negotiations between Lara and Etri after the main threat is dealt with and maybe not even then. There would be good reason for the Archive to simply leave Chicago before the battle starts, because of its (not Ivy's) importance.
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I could see Ivy being instrumental in defending the base of the allied accords group. She'll probably sit on the roof and help defend and coordinate. Everyone else has angles and agendas, but she's neutral, and will be important in establishing trust amongst reluctant allies.
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I don't even think it was that, I think Jim put her in there because she should be at the meeting, but because of all the other hodge podge he no room for a decent dialogue between her and Harry.
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I don't even think it was that, I think Jim put her in there because she should be at the meeting, but because of all the other hodge podge he no room for a decent dialogue between her and Harry.
I agree, it was far more important that we establish that Butter's is a Super Badass Harem Protagonist™ then have any scenes where Harry actually interacts with the various characters at the Peace Talks, that was central to the Narrative and could in no way be cut.
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I agree, it was far more important that we establish that Butter's is a Super Badass Harem Protagonist™ then have any scenes where Harry actually interacts with the various characters at the Peace Talks, that was central to the Narrative and could in no way be cut.
A bit harsh, but maybe not inaccurate. I'm going to start a new thread, right after posting this. The topic will be PT - What did you like? What didn't you like? (Other than cutting the story in two. I believe that subject is already being handled in a different thread.) Also, were you expecting something that you didn't get or get?
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I agree, it was far more important that we establish that Butter's is a Super Badass Harem Protagonist™ then have any scenes where Harry actually interacts with the various characters at the Peace Talks, that was central to the Narrative and could in no way be cut.
Well there were a lot of theories about Marci, so keeping her presence in our awareness might be relevant. And if she suits up in BG, it might be relevant, if only because some of the other Alphas have been decreasing in presence due to kids and whatnot.
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Butters of course uses his newfound super suave to ensnare the Titan in his sexual shenanigans, whilst Harry gets the blood and summons it to Demonreach.
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Oh god, I just had the thought that Butters gave Bob a ride along to his mothers holiday spread. Bob’s personality is influenced by whoever is holding the Skull, but what if it also works the other way following a ride Along?
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Well there were a lot of theories about Marci, so keeping her presence in our awareness might be relevant. And if she suits up in BG, it might be relevant, if only because some of the other Alphas have been decreasing in presence due to kids and whatnot.
Surely boinking a Knight of the Cross is enough to put many of those theories in jeopardy. I would hope Uriel would give Butters a heads up before making poor readers visualize Mavra that way. :P
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I agree, it was far more important that we establish that Butter's is a Super Badass Harem Protagonist™ then have any scenes where Harry actually interacts with the various characters at the Peace Talks, that was central to the Narrative and could in no way be cut.
+1
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Don't forget that Peace Talks is basically half a story.
You wouldn't stop half-way through Proven Guilty and gripe that Molly hasn't gotten enough screentime, would you?
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Don't forget that Peace Talks is basically half a story.
You wouldn't stop half-way through Proven Guilty and gripe that Molly hasn't gotten enough screentime, would you?
Honestly? We would have if it'd been split into two books. :P
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Other than a few Mainstays most of the signatories didn't really show themselves it seemed to me.
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I think we saw most of the big powers. I'm not sure just how many more there are.
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The Ukrainian shapeshifter wasn’t there.....or was he?
The Red Court wasn’t there, they had a prior appointment with an extinction level event.
The Denarians weren’t there they left the Accords before they got thrown out, for being bad eggs.
If the battle against the Titan is adjudged to be a success you might get new members coming forward, not just the Bigfeet, but likely what is left of the Twyleth Teg. The Knights of the Cross could join if this is becoming an alliance against Nemesis. Good god the Erl King could decide to join having missed out on such a wonderful fight. The LaChaise Clan are out.
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But I'm not sure how many big powers weren't represented. We know there are another three or four vampire courts, and smaller mythological courts like Twyleth, but I don't know that they'd be considered big powers. Likewise, we don't know if there are other big powers that aren't members of the accords and therefore wouldn't be there. Hades is a big name, but is he a member?
I would imagine the LaChaise Clan is the smallest member present, and likely there for a betrayal. But there's probably a bunch like River's people who are already members but don't get involved unless they're directly impacted.
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Lots of things weren't there. I don't think this was really a meeting of the Supernatural World Powers. I think this was everyone who would accept Baron Marcone's invitation to discuss the Fomor problem in Chicago.
We didn't see the black or jade court, or in fact any Asian or African power at all. Are we supposed to believe that there aren't any supernatural nations in the rest of the world?
Out of the twenty Freeholding Lords under the Accords (per White Night), we just get three -- Marcone, Ferrovax, and Vadderung. No second dragon. No Drakul. No Ukrainian shapeshifter.
Even the powers that did show made a fairly mild showing, for the most part -- Lara came with one valkyrie and five guards. No siblings or cousins. Etri and Evanna came with five guards. Sarissa and Fix came with a few sidhe -- no Eldest Gruff, no Erlking. If you discount the sidhe musicians and einherjar serving drinks, the White Council was the largest single faction with four Senior Councilors and five Wardens.
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Have you considered that the no shows were largely tipped off not to attend because their sympathies lay with the Fomor?, the LaChaise clan too small and not important enough to tip off, besides they are Ghouls, expendable rent a muscle. Some wouldn’t attend as a snub to Marcone, or for a host of other reasons. Not all powers or nations in the Supernatural world are members of the Accords, it’s a bit like NATO
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Have you considered that the no shows were largely tipped off not to attend because their sympathies lay with the Fomor?, the LaChaise clan too small and not important enough to tip off, besides they are Ghouls, expendable rent a muscle. Some wouldn’t attend as a snub to Marcone, or for a host of other reasons. Not all powers or nations in the Supernatural world are members of the Accords, it’s a bit like NATO
Seems more likely that it was a regional thing. Rivers was there because it's in his region and wanted to show interest in the accords. Ferro has some tie to the region because he was invited along with other locals to Bianca's party. LaChaise has interests in the region (South more than Midwest but still fairly close). Vadderung stays involved and sponsored Marcone. And the Sidhe because it's their party.
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In the Poison Pen q&A Jim was asked where was Drakul during the Peace Talks, Jim said “you will know in September”. This may suggest that my theory regarding certain Accords Members being tipped off may be correct, they are coming in with the Fomor.
Could we see Drakul, Denarians, Mavra and Blood on his soul all turn up in Battlefield fighting with the Fomor? We know we have the Knights of the Cross and River Shoulders fighting for the white hats, aside from the Accord powers
It also probably suggests no one really likes the Ghouls, not even the bad guys, they didn’t even bother to tip them off so are likely to be targeted by both sides. Which Harry would have done any how with some “friendly fire”
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That, or Drakul's gone the way of the King of the Tylwyth Teg.
But I would almost be surprised *not* to see Mavra and Ursiel/Blood-on-his-Soul in Battle Ground, after the explicit call-outs. I wouldn't be too surprised to see Shagnasty, either. (Would love to see a rematch between Harry and Shagnasty on the Island.)
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I'm thinking the ghouls have a different purpose, mainly making him m confront his own hatred in opposition of what EB has done with his hatred of Wamps.
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That, or Drakul's gone the way of the King of the Tylwyth Teg.
But I would almost be surprised *not* to see Mavra and Ursiel/Blood-on-his-Soul in Battle Ground, after the explicit call-outs. I wouldn't be too surprised to see Shagnasty, either. (Would love to see a rematch between Harry and Shagnasty on the Island.)
I have a feeling that Jim is setting us up for all/a lot of Harry's defeated but not killed villains of the week to show up. He mentioned Mavra, Blood on his Soul, and Nic. I'm kind of hoping for a Sinister Six style story.
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It would solve a lot of dangling plot threads, although Blood on his sole was neatly tied up already until River unpicked it. This would allow Jim to concentrate on the build up to the BAT, which I rather think Nicky is bound up with, as he has the Grail. I think Nicky wants to cure Lucifer of Nemesis, which would require all the objects and all the swords.
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Soul or sole? Both make sense for him. Maybe the Grail is how he's still alive?
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Nicky had the grail, not sure he would go back for Gen.
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It would solve a lot of dangling plot threads, although Blood on his sole was neatly tied up already until River unpicked it. This would allow Jim to concentrate on the build up to the BAT, which I rather think Nicky is bound up with, as he has the Grail. I think Nicky wants to cure Lucifer of Nemesis, which would require all the objects and all the swords.
that'd be too selfless. I think his biblical name gives the key to what he wants, to devour an immortal.. maybe the big G himself
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The Fallen believed Lucifer and rebelled against God, but what if that rebellion was on a false premise and Lucifer was Nemfected? Anduriel would need to know this, cure Lucifer and find out whether the rebellion was genuine, if it was business as usual, if not then the precept he and Nick has been working under for two millennia have been wrong. It gives the Fallen a redemption arc.
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I thought there was a WoJ that the Fall was from an argument between TWG and Luci on how to address the Outsider issue. Or was that just more speculation? I can't remember.
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And if Lucifer were in fact Nemfected, wouldn’t he argue?
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And if Lucifer were in fact Nemfected, wouldn’t he argue?
Not countering, just adding. Aurora was infected and rebelled against the How Things Are Done. So there's a precedent.
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And if Lucifer were in fact Nemfected, wouldn’t he argue?
I think Lucifer used to BE the Adversary, that was his role in the heavenly court before his fall, but the only place I can think of him acting in his official role is in Job. According to the kabbalah when he became the devil his wife Lilith became the Adversary. This would track quite nicely with Nemesis and things that get to act in cosmic imbalance.