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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: exartiem on May 02, 2020, 05:14:30 PM

Title: Paying the Rent
Post by: exartiem on May 02, 2020, 05:14:30 PM
It has been discussed before, what Grey meant by 'the Rent'.  It has been assumed that he was referring to his parent and that his parent was a naagloshii.  This led to debates as to whether a naagloshii CAN create an offspring and if so how and why.

But what if he wasn't referring to HIS parent? 

What if he were referring to Harry's parent?  Grey stated that he knew Margaret LeFey, and well enough to describe her as 'a piece of work'.   Meaning that she did somethings he would not have expected.

What if Margaret did something for him?  If he owed her a debt but couldn't repay it because she was dead, so he paid the debt to her son.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Bad Alias on May 02, 2020, 09:02:16 PM
Grey charged Marcone $1. Marcone asked why, Grey responded with "Got to pay the Rent, like everyone else." Marcone basically asked who he paid rent to. He basically didn't answer.

I don't think it has anything to do with Harry.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: g33k on May 03, 2020, 08:18:48 AM
Quote from: exartiem on May 02, 2020, 05:14:30 PM
It has been discussed before, what Grey meant by 'the Rent'.  It has been assumed that he was referring to his parent and that his parent was a naagloshii ...
I had never presumed "the Rent" meant a parent; I didn't think there was a consensus...
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: exartiem on May 03, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: Bad Alias on May 02, 2020, 09:02:16 PM
Grey charged Marcone $1. Marcone asked why, Grey responded with "Got to pay the Rent, like everyone else." Marcone basically asked who he paid rent to. He basically didn't answer.

I don't think it has anything to do with Harry.

When did Grey work for Marcone?
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: didymos on May 03, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
Quote from: exartiem on May 03, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
When did Grey work for Marcone?

In the short story Monsters in the Parallel Worlds anthology.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Gman on May 03, 2020, 02:08:18 PM
I would guess paying the rent has to do with being permitted to stay on Earth unmolested by doing some good deeds for a dollar every so often. He seems to have a deal with someone or a group that is very powerful.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Yuillegan on May 04, 2020, 08:29:07 AM
Gman is spot on I think.

Seems like Grey has to do certain deeds (for which the amount is not important, however the transaction IS) in order to receive an unknown benefit. My guess is that is ISN'T his Free Will, but his Naaglooshii powers.

I say this because there is a thing about how Naagloshii can't leave their homeland/tribal lands for too long. I suspect there are supernatural consequences (similar to breaking a promise on your power) to them. Perhaps they lose their abilities, perhaps they are forced to return via magic, perhaps they die. Whatever the case, I would say that Gray has the same restrictions being a scion.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Arjan on May 04, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
Grey is a scion and they have to make a choice. In the older books it was simply the choice to become human or something else but we have seen that that choice is sometimes more complicated and can also be postponed. However that choice is always there. You have to choose who you want to be.

He says it in Skin Game:
Quote
"I didn't choose my father, either, and he was a piece of work, too. But I do choose how I live my life. So pay up."

It is about the person he wants to be, it is about his nature and free will. It is about keeping his powers and his free will. To keep everything in balance. To keep being who he is.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: exartiem on May 04, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
I think having to make a choice is a Changeling thing, not a scion thing.  I don't think Kincaid ever had to choose, he just is what he is.

The way "Rent" is capitalized it does heavily suggest that he means pa-Rent.  But I don't think he ever says he has to pay HIS Rent.  Always THE Rent.  I never read that short story.  Did the job with Marcone have anything to do with Harry?
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Arjan on May 04, 2020, 01:21:34 PM
Quote from: exartiem on May 04, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
I think having to make a choice is a Changeling thing, not a scion thing.  I don't think Kincaid ever had to choose, he just is what he is.
They all have to choose in some way like Thomase chose when he killed his first meal. Like Susan chose when she killed Martin. There must be woj about kincaid too:

Quote
Does Kincaid have the ability to “choose” like Faerie changelings (i.e Meryl/Fix/Lily)?”
All scions do, though if they never twig to the fact that they ARE a scion, it’s their actions that make the Choice for them. Kincaid made his Choice a long, long time ago.

https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-harrys-mortal-allies/

The old ones I can still find. The new ones are difficult.

Quote
The way "Rent" is capitalized it does heavily suggest that he means pa-Rent.  But I don't think he ever says he has to pay HIS Rent.  Always THE Rent.  I never read that short story.  Did the job with Marcone have anything to do with Harry?

It is an expression, a manner of saying. We must all choose who we want to be and there are costs involved.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: g33k on May 04, 2020, 06:33:52 PM
Quote from: exartiem on May 04, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
... The way "Rent" is capitalized it does heavily suggest that he means pa-Rent.  But I don't think he ever says he has to pay HIS Rent.  Always THE Rent ...

I never see "rent" (as used for "Parent") cap'ed... often I see it as 'rent but not always.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Bad Alias on May 04, 2020, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: exartiem on May 04, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
Did the job with Marcone have anything to do with Harry?
Do you really want the answer?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Sev Expar on May 06, 2020, 12:56:11 AM
Quote from: exartiem on May 04, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
Did the job with Marcone have anything to do with Harry?

Not really. Harry's mentioned at the very end in an almost 'product placement' way. This is not a Harry Dresden story, but it's a very worthwhile read.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: AClone on May 06, 2020, 09:15:17 PM
I took a handful of clues from various isolated incidents in Skin Game. One, when Harry realized that he hadn't told Gray where Michael lived. Two, when Harry noticed that Gray was paying very close attention to what Michael was saying--was that about the redemptive aspects of faith? I'd have to check. Then, when Uriel said that Gray attempting to enter the Carpenter yard would have been "awkward". Oh, and also, because Michael knew right away that Gray was a very bad person.

Well, Gray is a monster for hire. It would hardly surprise me if at some point he took a contract on Michael, headed for the Carpenter House--and got his...er, tail handed to him.

Faced with the possibility of eternal damnation for his actions, he was told by a divine entity (I don't think that Uriel is the only archangel familiar with the Carpenter House) that he needed to atone for his lifetime of evil acts. Do a good deed every year, every month, every week, whatever, to counteract all of the bad things he's done over the centuries.

In other words, Gray has a temporary lease on remaining on the mortal plane. That's the key point.

The dollar merely reflects that it has to be a contract of exchange, where he's sacrificing money--rather than simply helping little old ladies across the street.

Perhaps he was even told not to come back to Michael's house (or similar divinely protected places) until his Rent was in a positive balance.

All of that is a WAG. Lots of unknowable variables in there. But I suspect that I got the general shape of it correctly.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Bad Alias on May 07, 2020, 08:45:44 PM
I don't 100% agree with AClone, but I do think you're onto something.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Yuillegan on May 09, 2020, 06:53:47 AM
^^Same.

Definitely some odd stuff around Gray knowing things he shouldn't, and Uriel's comment etc. Not sure if it is to do with a specific incident but still. Michael knew of him too and knew he was bad news.
Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: Arjan on May 09, 2020, 09:47:38 AM
I am quite sure Michael and Uriel are just reacting to Gray's nature, the part he got from his father. When Bob first talks about the skinwalkers they are basically compared with fallen angels, they sort of are.

Imagine Anduriel had a son. Not Nic, Anduriel.


Title: Re: Paying the Rent
Post by: toodeep on May 12, 2020, 04:58:20 PM
I think he might have to charge for services, and he might have to perform services- sort of a "can't refuse a contract" sort of thing.  So if it is a contract he wants to do, he charges a dollar.  If it is a contract he doesn't want to do, he charges a lot more.  But no matter what, once he's contracted he does the job.