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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Uriel_spook on March 23, 2020, 01:51:47 PM

Title: Battle Ground??
Post by: Uriel_spook on March 23, 2020, 01:51:47 PM
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, haven’t seen it in my lurking on the site. Has anyone else come across this? - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/645503/battle-ground-by-jim-butcher/hardcover

Feel like I’ve been missing something if it’s legit but saw it on Amazon as well. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Mira on March 23, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, haven’t seen it in my lurking on the site. Has anyone else come across this? - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/645503/battle-ground-by-jim-butcher/hardcover

Feel like I’ve been missing something if it’s legit but saw it on Amazon as well. Thanks in advance.

  No...  ??????  The one to ask I think, is Priscilla.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 23, 2020, 04:31:11 PM
Aren't the Titans Greek mythology?  Is this the wrestling book?  Or just another screwup aggravated by the virus that will not be named.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Drakelth7777777 on March 23, 2020, 06:12:08 PM
I wonder if Peace Talks was to big and they made him split it into to books? Peace Talks could be the build up and then Battle Grounds picks up right after and we have that huge throw down that killed all the people mentioned in Christmas Eve. Then could have the wrestling god book.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 23, 2020, 07:15:31 PM
Well, for what it's worth I just preordered it.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: didymos on March 23, 2020, 07:36:46 PM
Well, for what it's worth I just preordered it.

Same.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Uriel_spook on March 23, 2020, 07:49:38 PM
Also available on Apple Books with a length of 312 pages listed.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 23, 2020, 07:58:35 PM
The unexpectedness of this has me thinking it's not a thing. The only thing that would make any sense to me is Peace Talks being split into two books. I'd still think we would have heard something about it before the book's publication date is announced. Additionally, the description could be pretty spoilery if it's part two of a single story.

Yes, the Titans were the predecessors of the Gods in Greek mythology. Who were the female Titans and which ones were most likely to be the "Last Titan" and want to subjugate humanity? I honestly can't name a single female Titan without having to first look it up. Was Gaia a Titan? Apparently Prometheus and Atlas are dead. I wonder who is holding the world up know?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Just Al on March 23, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
It seems to me that if Peace Talks had been split into 2 books then the publisher would have announced both, since we all know that we'd line up to buy 2 books at the same time.

I'm wondering if someone in the marketing department just got ahead of themselves and this is book 21.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 23, 2020, 09:18:14 PM
Jim is doing a Live Stream tomorrow at 12 Eastern Time and if someone doesn't ask I'll kiss my spuuse's cheek.  But the blurb is pretty specific as is the title.  But it hasn't reared it questionable head yet on Reddit, which is kinda odd.  It's kinda fun even if it isn't true. 

Wasn't there an blurb on the website about a big announcement a while back, which everyone assumed was about a TV series of some type?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Maz on March 23, 2020, 09:27:54 PM
Ordered ... because Jim.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Mira on March 23, 2020, 09:47:34 PM


Careful guys, there are a lot of scams out there that seem real.  In times like these there are people that wouldn't blink twice before screwing fans out of twenty-five bucks or so.   I'd wait for confirmation from Jim or Priscilla before I spent a dime.  Odd don't you think that in all the interviews, Jim never mentioned splitting Peace Talks into two books?   
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Snark Knight on March 24, 2020, 12:37:12 AM
It seems to me that if Peace Talks had been split into 2 books then the publisher would have announced both, since we all know that we'd line up to buy 2 books at the same time.

I'm wondering if someone in the marketing department just got ahead of themselves and this is book 21.

I though Fight Night was pretty firm for book 17, the wrestling one. And the BAT titles are pretty much locked in for Hell's Bells, Stars & Stones and Empty Night.

I doubt it's an outright scam since the Amazon listing is 'ships from and sold by Amazon'. On the other hand, splitting PT into two volumes is the kind of thing I'd be a little surprised to hear from the booksellers announce before Jim or Priscilla did. "It's so long it needs two volumes" would have got a lot of the annoying "when is it out?" questions off his back for a while.

I'm half wondering if it's a surprise graphic novel, listed as a main sequence novel by honest mistake.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 24, 2020, 01:02:30 AM
Isn't the book after Peace Talks supposed to be Mirror, Mirror. I agree with Snark Knight that it seems unlikely that it's a full length novel. A graphic novel would make sense.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Snark Knight on March 24, 2020, 01:17:43 AM
Isn't the book after Peace Talks supposed to be Mirror, Mirror. I agree with Snark Knight that it seems unlikely that it's a full length novel. A graphic novel would make sense.

Ah, you're right. I think the wrestling one was slated for 18. Although there was supposed to be a Greek connection in that one...
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Snark Knight on March 24, 2020, 01:19:33 AM
Jim is doing a Live Stream tomorrow at 12 Eastern Time and if someone doesn't ask I'll kiss my spuuse's cheek. 

Live stream where?

I'm sure we all have a few Morgan questions to throw into the ring.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 24, 2020, 01:20:09 AM
@Stark Knight: I don't recall precisely what Jim said about it, but I had the same impression regarding the Greek gods connection.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 24, 2020, 01:36:39 AM
Assuming that it is Peace Talks split in two, that would make this a cash grab. >:(

priscellie
It'll be posted Tuesday morning along with the link to the trailer.

 
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Uriel_spook on March 24, 2020, 04:51:58 AM
Was just curious (hopefully understandably) - wasn’t looking to stir anything up
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Mira on March 24, 2020, 04:59:55 AM
I though Fight Night was pretty firm for book 17, the wrestling one. And the BAT titles are pretty much locked in for Hell's Bells, Stars & Stones and Empty Night.

I doubt it's an outright scam since the Amazon listing is 'ships from and sold by Amazon'. On the other hand, splitting PT into two volumes is the kind of thing I'd be a little surprised to hear from the booksellers announce before Jim or Priscilla did. "It's so long it needs two volumes" would have got a lot of the annoying "when is it out?" questions off his back for a while.

I'm half wondering if it's a surprise graphic novel, listed as a main sequence novel by honest mistake.

I checked Amazon and it isn't listed for pre-order though Peace Talks is, and they list all the other Jim Butcher books for sale.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Uriel_spook on March 24, 2020, 05:04:38 AM
Using the kindle app on an iPhone I was able to search for and find it, same for the Apple Books app as well
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 24, 2020, 05:27:22 AM
Was just curious (hopefully understandably) - wasn’t looking to stir anything up
You didn't.  I'm crazy. ;)
I checked Amazon and it isn't listed for pre-order though Peace Talks is, and they list all the other Jim Butcher books for sale.
It is, once you suggested a scam I checked it on multiple computers.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 24, 2020, 06:44:09 AM
Live stream where?

I'm sure we all have a few Morgan questions to throw into the ring.

https://www.jim-butcher.com/

Trailer for PT: 10:30 a.m. EDT
Q&A: 12:30
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Maz on March 24, 2020, 02:52:51 PM
Confirmed two books.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 24, 2020, 02:58:17 PM
You can now take the existence of Battle Ground as confirmed.  A link to Amazon for both titles is at the end of the article at IO9 (https://io9.gizmodo.com/check-out-our-exclusive-peek-at-jim-butchers-new-dresde-1842415798).
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Frielove on March 24, 2020, 04:32:34 PM
Jim also just confirmed it in his interview for Daniel Greene's YouTube channel.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: didymos on March 24, 2020, 04:35:43 PM
Jim also just confirmed it in his interview for Daniel Greene's YouTube channel.

Here's the link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpLssK14iL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpLssK14iL8)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 24, 2020, 04:37:35 PM
It is also in the trailer for peace talks
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: wardenferry419 on March 24, 2020, 05:10:57 PM
Two books in the same year....after all this time.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on March 24, 2020, 05:25:36 PM
Assuming that it is Peace Talks split in two, that would make this a cash grab. >:(

That's a possibility, but it's not necessarily the case.  We all knew the peace talks would not end well.  That was a given after the Christmas Eve story where Molly was consoling Harry in the aftermath of Peace Talks.  However, the primary and secondary issues; whatever they may turn out to be, that Harry has to work through in Peace Talks may end up being resolved by the end of the novel.  Battleground could be the natural extension of what happens after the talks fail, but with its own set of fresh issues for Harry to deal with.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 24, 2020, 05:37:40 PM
https://www.jim-butcher.com/battle-ground-17
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: SerScot on March 24, 2020, 05:48:17 PM
I thought Mirror Mirror was the next book?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 24, 2020, 05:49:37 PM
Don't take that statement the wrong way.  Jim is a merchant peddling his wares.  He has the right to structure his merchandise in whatever way he sees fit.  As a fairly loyal customer I have to put up with it.  But I don't have to like it.  Here's the thing, Jim laid out a fairly clear roadmap.  This wasn't in it.  He's also coming off a six year hiatus which had to reduce his income stream.  I think he had a long book, looked at the numbers and said.  Hmmmm.  Battle Ground.  I'm gonna buy it, I think I'll enjoy it.  But the salient point for me is that I will probably not buy it in two formats as I usually do.  Maybe just the Kindle version, maybe Audible.  And this is the last time I will bring it up since I am more than certain that people really don't want to hear it.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: SerScot on March 24, 2020, 05:51:44 PM
Don't take that statement the wrong way.  Jim is a merchant peddling his wares.  He has the right to structure his merchandise in whatever way he sees fit.  As a fairly loyal customer I have to put up with it.  But I don't have to like it.  Here's the thing, Jim laid out a fairly clear roadmap.  This wasn't in it.  He's also coming off a six year hiatus which had to reduce his income stream.  I think he had a long book, looked at the numbers and said.  Hmmmm.  Battle Ground.  I'm gonna buy it, I think I'll enjoy it.  But the salient point for me is that I will probably not buy it in two formats as I usually do.  Maybe just the Kindle version, maybe Audible.  And this is the last time I will bring it up since I am more than certain that people really don't want to hear it.

So, this is Peace Talks split into two books?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 24, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
So, this is Peace Talks split into two books?
I was simply too big and there was a split in the story that facilitated it.
You do't want to throw away half the book to make it fit. This is better.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 24, 2020, 06:24:44 PM
For those that haven't/don't want to watch/ed the live stream, Jim said he had 4/3rds of a book and the Penguin said that it would be at least $50.00. Jim didn't want to be the first popular novel to go over 50 for the hardback, so he cranked out another 2/3rds out. (He goes into a bit more detail about the back and forth, timing, and what it took, but it's not really relevant to the point).
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Mira on March 24, 2020, 06:39:09 PM
For those that haven't/don't want to watch/ed the live stream, Jim said he had 4/3rds of a book and the Penguin said that it would be at least $50.00. Jim didn't want to be the first popular novel to go over 50 for the hardback, so he cranked out another 2/3rds out. (He goes into a bit more detail about the back and forth, timing, and what it took, but it's not really relevant to the point).

  Now I feel better, it's been confirmed, just ordered it on Amazon, but even with Prime it costs thirty dollars!  While Peace Talks apparently is going to cost me only around twelve dollars if I read the receipt right.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: crazyut90 on March 24, 2020, 06:55:10 PM
So does this mean that there will be 22 files, then the final trilogy?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: didymos on March 24, 2020, 06:58:12 PM
So does this mean that there will be 22 files, then the final trilogy?

That's what Jim said in the livestream (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V9am4XyYz4) he did with Priscilla.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 24, 2020, 07:06:22 PM
So, this is Peace Talks split into two books?
Yes. And the total price if you preorder is 47 dollars and no date on the second Audio Book.  Looks definitely like I need to get my Kindle out of storage.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: crazyut90 on March 24, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
so we still pay out $50 for two books that really is one book?  It looks like Jim has been talking with George too much!!!!
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Uriel_spook on March 24, 2020, 07:23:06 PM
If only this sleuthing came with ARCs  :P ;D :D

Looking forward to reading Dresden again.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 24, 2020, 07:38:04 PM
so we still pay out $50 for two books that really is one book?  It looks like Jim has been talking with George too much!!!!
No. We pay $50 for two books instead of paying $50 for 1&1/3rd books. It's 2/3rds more book this way with two books coming in the same year.

And if price has you turned off, libraries exist and are available to most of us. You just have to wait longer.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: SerScot on March 24, 2020, 08:01:41 PM
No. We pay $50 for two books instead of paying $50 for 1&1/3rd books. It's 2/3rds more book this way with two books coming in the same year.

And if price has you turned off, libraries exist and are available to most of us. You just have to wait longer.

Not to mention the fact that other authors have put out doorstopper novel that don’t market at $50 a pop.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 24, 2020, 08:10:32 PM
No. We pay $50 for two books instead of paying $50 for 1&1/3rd books. It's 2/3rds more book this way with two books coming in the same year.

And if price has you turned off, libraries exist and are available to most of us. You just have to wait longer.
Think about this.  If book A and book B were equal in value they would be priced the same.  However this is only true for the Kindle.  On the other hand if you ordered them from Barns and Nobels the total cost would be 56. And to finish out on this topic Battle Ground appears to be sold out at Amazon.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: 123Chikadee on March 24, 2020, 08:28:06 PM
 @Arjan: Sie sind das Essen und Wir sind die Jaeger!
....I'm not sorry.
But wow, how long did he have to keep this to himself?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: LoopyGuru on March 24, 2020, 08:55:28 PM
Just watched the Daniel Greene interview.  Easy to miss, but Jim said that he hoped to finish the 2nd Cinder Spires by the end of the summer, so if he keeps to that schedule we may have that by spring next year.  And therefore he could be starting the 18th Dresden by this autumn.  Which would be nice.  Feeling like a feast after famine is possible!
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 24, 2020, 09:29:01 PM
I don't buy new books often, so I don't really know what he market is. Used Dresden Files books ranged from $4-12 delivered for the most part. I generally get hardbacks, but they didn't exist until Dead Beat and for some reason, I ended up with Cold Days, I think, in paperback. You can get Skin Game for about $8.50 right now, used and hardback. New it's over $30. Paperback for about $9 something, new or used. (All Amazon).

Amazon is telling me $18.31 for the Peace Talks hardback. So that's about $10 for getting it soonest and in mint condition (unless your delivery guy throws it over your gate, RobReece). I only see the kindle edition for Battle Ground. Barnes and Noble is coming out to $41.16 total for both for me. Free shipping, didn't check tax, but I'm sure that's added. I'm figure the Battle Ground hardback will be about the same as Peace Talks once it hits Amazon.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Mira on March 24, 2020, 09:51:05 PM
I don't buy new books often, so I don't really know what he market is. Used Dresden Files books ranged from $4-12 delivered for the most part. I generally get hardbacks, but they didn't exist until Dead Beat and for some reason, I ended up with Cold Days, I think, in paperback. You can get Skin Game for about $8.50 right now, used and hardback. New it's over $30. Paperback for about $9 something, new or used. (All Amazon).

Amazon is telling me $18.31 for the Peace Talks hardback. So that's about $10 for getting it soonest and in mint condition (unless your delivery guy throws it over your gate, RobReece). I only see the kindle edition for Battle Ground. Barnes and Noble is coming out to $41.16 total for both for me. Free shipping, didn't check tax, but I'm sure that's added. I'm figure the Battle Ground hardback will be about the same as Peace Talks once it hits Amazon.

 Unless Amazon made an error, or it was on special the week I ordered it, but I just went back and checked it
Track package
Peace Talks (Dresden Files)
Butcher, Jim
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
$11.16 

I will check it again to make sure they didn't think I ordered it on Kindle, because I didn't.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 24, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
I am happy with it. Two books will be easier to pay (I mean, assuming the same total amount I rather pay it in two parts) and it will be good to have some DF to read on July and September. I am excited.

Now, to find where you are discussing the trailer.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Wolfeyes on March 24, 2020, 11:35:52 PM
Amazon had a sale on PT recently, so I'm definitely saving by breaking up the cost between two books. $50->over $70CAD and I'm getting PT for around $25CAD due to the sale. Even if Battle Ground isn't priced similarly, it still saves a bit of money.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 25, 2020, 12:53:17 AM
Now, to find where you are discussing the trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Priscellie (https://www.youtube.com/user/Priscellie)That's Priscilla's Youtube page. It's got the trailer and the live stream.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 25, 2020, 01:21:37 AM
Thanks! I just meant the thread here in the forum for discussing it. About the trailer itself I went to the JB official site and there was a link to the trailer.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 25, 2020, 01:34:43 AM
@Dina: Cool. My bad.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 25, 2020, 01:39:04 AM
Not bad at all  :). Thanks anyway!
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Yuillegan on March 25, 2020, 02:23:55 AM
Morris, it might feel like a cash grab but I think it isn't likely. They way he explains it is that he tried to write one big novel over the past few years and couldn't make it work. This is because it starts of like a traditional Dresden Files story and then morphs into something very different. He was trying something out (not to mention all the issues in his personal life that slowed down his writing) and this is the result. He even says in the interview, the publisher wanted to publish it next year and he wanted us to not have to wait that long (which I am sure you can appreciate, considering you often say you won't see the end of the Files). Even if it is a cash grab because money is tight, I don't mind. Life is tough right now, and Jim has had a tough few years, and being an author (even a successful one) doesn't mean you don't run into money issues occasionally. His books make me happy, and I am more than happy to pay for two polished novels quickly, rather than one expensive mess. I take him at his word, but how you see it is up to you.

Also - does anyone else see the obvious reference to PUBG? One feels Battle Ground will be a last man standing book. Good for jim to try and capture that zeitgeist (even if he is a little behind the eight ball).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: GWPfark on March 25, 2020, 02:37:58 AM
This is simple. Next book is Mirror Mirror. Harry is sent to another time. Its caused at the end of the book. The Villian is
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 25, 2020, 02:45:55 AM
Morris, it might feel like a cash grab but I think it isn't likely.
Okay, and even if it is I can't say that if I was in his shoes that I might not do the same. But I want two books, not 1.5 with padding.  And I won't know until after the fact.  However, you pays your money and takes your chances.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 25, 2020, 03:26:12 AM
I had to google PUBG. I quit playing video games after I got out of college. (Not because I think it's "kid's" stuff, but because I didn't have the time and developed other more expensive hobbies. If I won the lottery or something, I'd probably be right back in). So, no. I didn't notice.

I don't think the Titan is any combination of the Faerie Queens. Hecate was a goddess and not a Titan. Jim could change that, but I don't think so. My money is on the
(click to show/hide)

This is simple. Next book is Mirror Mirror. Harry is sent to another time. Its caused at the end of the book. The Villian is
(click to show/hide)
"The Last Titan has declared war on the city of Chicago, and has come to subjugate humanity, obliterating any who stand in her way." The blurb describing the book.

you pays your money and takes your chances.
I don't know why, but I love that saying.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Yuillegan on March 25, 2020, 04:39:22 AM
Yeah PUBG wasn't really my thing tbh. But I am sure BG is a reference. Every title he has had in the series has at least a double meaning.

Depends on how you look at Hecate actually. Some children of the Titans, like Atlas and Pallas were still considered and even referred to themselves as Titans. But the Olympians considered themselves separate. Hecate was one who didn't really fit into normal categories. She doesn't really even fit all that well in the heart of Greek Myth, more on the fringes. As a triple goddess she was also considered to have power of earth, sea and sky and fate - and in post-christian writings was even considered to have a Savior role and connected to the World Soul. Wouldn't count her out.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah not Cronus though, it is clearly stated to be a her.

Okay, and even if it is I can't say that if I was in his shoes that I might not do the same. But I want two books, not 1.5 with padding.  And I won't know until after the fact.  However, you pays your money and takes your chances.

Indeed that is true. I agree with you though, I hate being ripped off. If it felt like just two halves of the same novel that might disappoint me a bit. Not enough to drive me from the series probably, but still. Here's hoping it is two distinct entities. Although one could argue that Cold Days and Ghost Story are part of the same thing. He said he had to do heaps of rewriting once it split in order to make it two distinct novels, so I am sure he has tried to do that. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on March 25, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
... you pays your money and takes your chances.

Or you waits 'til you can read reviews &c from some of the others whose tastes have previously been close to your own...   ;D

(jus' sayin)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Yuillegan on March 25, 2020, 08:50:14 AM
In Dead Beat Dresden asks Mab what happens if the Darkhallow succeeds. She tells him that Cowl will hold power that hasn't fallen into human hands in living memory (or something).

In the blurb for Battle Grounds it says that the Last Titan is power of an order of magnitude above any of Harry's normal enemies, power the mortal world hasn't seen in a millenium. This is almost certainly tied to Hastings. When Titania and Mab both ascended, Mother Summer retired and the Queens of Faerie died. Also when the last Starborn was running around. Long have people speculated this was when the Gate Changeover happened at the Outer Gates, and why Vadderung and Mab have a long standing disagreement. 

Was Cowl trying to become a Titan or Titan-level being? Maybe to match the Titan and maybe to do the same thing. Interestingly, Cowl and his cronies talk of a New World Order and they will reshape the place.

The Last Titan is trying to conquer the mortal world too.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 25, 2020, 09:03:05 AM
In the blurb for Battle Grounds it says that the Last Titan is power of an order of magnitude above any of Harry's normal enemies, power the mortal world hasn't seen in a millenium. This is almost certainly tied to Hastings. When Titania and Mab both ascended, Mother Summer retired and the Queens of Faerie died. Also when the last Starborn was running around. Long have people speculated this was when the Gate Changeover happened at the Outer Gates, and why Vadderung and Mab have a long standing disagreement. 
Where is this part said? I don't remember it.
Your spoiler-tagged theory is interesting.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on March 25, 2020, 09:16:01 AM
... Also when the last Starborn was running around ...
Where is this part said? I don't remember it.

It's one of the common theories -- dunno if it has been confirmed via WoJ -- that there was a Starborn active at that time.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 25, 2020, 09:22:41 AM
It's one of the common theories -- dunno if it has been confirmed via WoJ -- that there was a Starborn active at that time.
It was a wou but I can never find them if I want to.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 25, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
It is not the same to say "there was an active Starborn" that "the last Starborn was active". If there has not been a starborn in a thousand years, it is much weird that there are two (Harry and Eleaine) at the same time(same age even)  in the same country. And it makes them much more special.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Mira on March 25, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
It is not the same to say "there was an active Starborn" that "the last Starborn was active". If there has not been a starborn in a thousand years, it is much weird that there are two (Harry and Eleaine) at the same time(same age even)  in the same country. And it makes them much more special.

Or there is only one, but two who had potential requirements to be the starborn.  Kind of like Harry Potter and Nevil Longbottom..
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 25, 2020, 05:52:49 PM
It is not the same to say "there was an active Starborn" that "the last Starborn was active". If there has not been a starborn in a thousand years, it is much weird that there are two (Harry and Eleaine) at the same time(same age even)  in the same country. And it makes them much more special.
Unless there can only be a Starborn at certain conjunctions that only come around every 1,000 years or so.

My recollection of where that comes from was that it was something like "the last time a starborn was running around both the Ladies died," and it was a reference to when Aurora and Maeve became Ladies.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on March 25, 2020, 06:03:56 PM
It was a wou but I can never find them if I want to.

I dunno if this is all there is, but...
Quote
Uh, the Ladies, Queens and Mothers, their mantles change very, very, very rarely in general. I mean, Mab’s been there for better than 1,000 years. And Maeve’s been there….there was a Winter Lady before Maeve, uh, in Mab’s time. And she didn’t fare so well the last time a Starborn was running around.
  (https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/, near the end.)

It's not 100% clear to me, from this, that "the last time a Starborn was running around" is the SAME time as that thousand-years-ago time.

Interestingly, Jim said "better than 1000 years" which would noticeably pre-date Hastings (indeed, predate the birth of William the Conqueror).  It could be simple error in speaking; everybody's subject to slip-of-the-tongue errors, carelessness, etc...

Or not.

Everybody's all busy looking at Hastings, while maybe Jim is over there cackling madly about Millenial Madness and the Y1K panic, for example.  Charlemagne's kingdom being split into 3 (three Swords?) in 843AD, for another example (or Charlemagne's rise, late 700's through 800AD).
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 25, 2020, 06:18:43 PM
Of that quote, I think that Maeve predecessor lived any time in the last 1000 years, it could had been a couple of centuries ago. We don't know if Aurora become a Lady at the same time.

And Mira is right about the requirements to be a starborn.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 25, 2020, 07:05:10 PM
It could be Clontarf. It is somewhat earlier and ab big defeat of the vikings by the Irish in 1014. R.E. Howard wrote a piece about it and I just had to think about it

 http://www.howardworks.com/storyg.htm#grey

Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Snark Knight on March 25, 2020, 07:25:09 PM
Not to mention the fact that other authors have put out doorstopper novel that don’t market at $50 a pop.

Yeah, Rothfuss hardcovers are double the page count of any DF book, with smaller print, and still not prohibitive for bookbinding. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, though - maybe it's mostly the change in tone not working, and this might be much longer than a normal DF novel.




Of that quote, I think that Maeve predecessor lived any time in the last 1000 years, it could had been a couple of centuries ago. We don't know if Aurora become a Lady at the same time.

Maeve and Sarissa's father was the "famous Austrian composer" which, even admitting some uncertainty which one we're talking about, pretty much limits them to being born no earlier than ca. 1650. And it may have been a while until Maeve got her mantle; perhaps ~1800. I believe Molly refers to a "two hundred year backlog" from how lazy Maeve was about her duties.

But it might be that there was one intervening Winter Lady between the time both got killed in the era of the last Starborn and Maeve's ascension.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 25, 2020, 08:17:53 PM
Quote
Uh, the Ladies, Queens and Mothers, their mantles change very, very, very rarely in general. I mean, Mab’s been there for better than 1,000 years. And Maeve’s been there….there was a Winter Lady before Maeve, uh, in Mab’s time. And she didn’t fare so well the last time a Starborn was running around.
(https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/, near the end.)
I'm pretty sure that's the one I remember.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 25, 2020, 08:27:40 PM
It seems to imply the the Gatekeeper is a starborn.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: BrainFireBob on March 26, 2020, 02:11:49 AM
From that and Mab's remark on his brolliance and insanity, I figured Kemmler was starborn, & the death of the WL was part of his mantle research
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 26, 2020, 03:24:20 AM
Quote
And she didn’t fare so well the last time a Starborn was running around.
The question is who "she" is. I always took it to mean the Winter Lady preceding Maeve, but the most recent female named was Mab.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 27, 2020, 06:24:12 PM
Amazon is telling me $18.31 for the Peace Talks hardback. So that's about $10 for getting it soonest and in mint condition (unless your delivery guy throws it over your gate, RobReece).
I went ahead and pre-ordered Peace Talks for $16.31. I figured $8.00 is worth getting it immediately. Also Amazon guarantees the lowest price from here to through the release date.
Quote
If the Amazon.com price decreases between the time you place your order and the end of the day of the release date, you'll receive the lowest price, either through a price adjustment in your unshipped order, or through a refund within 24-72 hours following the release date.
Has anyone ever dealt with that before? Is it reliable?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 27, 2020, 08:42:23 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 27, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Thanks. I've never pre-ordered pretty much anything before.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on March 27, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
Gonna be all noble, and NOT buy through Amazon.

I just love bookstores, and want to support my local ones.   ;D
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 27, 2020, 11:19:10 PM
I no longer collect physical books.  If for some reason I need them, will buy them in a used bookstore I like.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on March 28, 2020, 02:06:05 AM
I no longer collect physical books.  If for some reason I need them, will buy them in a used bookstore I like.

I am still awaiting an e-reader that I can enjoy using (even close to) as much as I enjoy handling a book.   :-(

I would like to move to e-copies of books.  I'm a long-term geek!

I'm also hoping to move (in a few years) to a mobile lifestyle.  The "books" issue looms as a major downgrade.  :-P
 
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: morriswalters on March 28, 2020, 03:13:55 AM
Once upon a time I loved paper, but it's just that more luggage. I prefer Calibre but it means cracking copy protection and it just isn't worth the time. Kindle gives me the device, my phone and my computer.  I don't have to worry about backups, so all in all, it works.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 28, 2020, 03:26:55 AM
I prefer FB Reader, but it involves using Calibre and cracking copy protection, so same problem. I have no idea if it's available on apple platforms.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Dina on March 28, 2020, 03:29:00 AM
I used to like paper too, but room for bookshelves is scarce. Also, with books published in foreign countries, the shipping is really expensive, so most of my books in English are in kindle. It has another advantage for me that only became apparent when I stopped being young. I can change the font size  :)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 28, 2020, 03:31:17 AM
My local library had large print editions of most of the DF. That was nice.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: 123Chikadee on March 28, 2020, 05:42:51 PM
As convenient as e-books are, I just love holding a physical copy and smelling that new book smell. That said, I might just give in and do pre-orders.
Oh, what if after Harry beats the female titan, then Chronos sends Harry back in time as vengeance(?) and that kickstarts Mirror Mirror.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on March 28, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
... Oh, what if after Harry beats the female titan, then Chronos sends Harry back in time as vengeance(?) and that kickstarts Mirror Mirror.

Blurb says she is the last Titan, which would rule out Chronos.

Blurb could be wrong, of course.

But Mirror Mirror is supposed to be a parallel-universe story, not a time-travel one.  Unless Jim's been actively deceiving us for YEARS now, it has a different premise -- we know a fair bit about it, by now.

I expect we'll get to a time-travel story, eventually (but it's not Mirror Mirror).
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 28, 2020, 06:20:18 PM
@g33k: I agree, but for the sake of argument, the "last" in Last Titan might mean something other that the "last surviving" Titan. It could mean the "youngest" Titan. Or something else. Really any ordering of the Titans other than by death. I think that's a stretch, but possible.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: 123Chikadee on March 28, 2020, 09:00:12 PM
@g33k: Oh right, lol, derp.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 28, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
@g33k: I agree, but for the sake of argument, the "last" in Last Titan might mean something other that the "last surviving" Titan. It could mean the "youngest" Titan. Or something else. Really any ordering of the Titans other than by death. I think that's a stretch, but possible.
Oh the rest is still in demonreach also known as tartarus.  She wants to free them.  :)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: didymos on March 28, 2020, 09:50:22 PM
Oh the rest is still in demonreach also known as tartarus.  She wants to free them.  :)

Tartarus is in the Nevernever:

Quote
The Nevernever is a big place. In fact, it’s the biggest place. The Nevernever is what the wizards call the entirety of the realm of spirit. It isn’t a physical place, with geography and weather patterns and so on. It’s a shadow world, a magical realm, and its substance is as mutable as thought. It has a lot of names, like the Other Side and the Next World, and it contains within it just about any kind of spirit realm you can imagine, somewhere. Heaven, Hell, Olympus, Elysium, Tartarus, Gehenna—you name it, and it’s in the Nevernever somewhere.

Butcher, Jim. Summer Knight (The Dresden Files, Book 4) (p. 297). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Arjan on March 28, 2020, 10:43:57 PM
Tartarus is in the Nevernever:
That is what Harry thinks in book 4.  :D

Besides where do you think you get if you open a door to the nevernever from demonreach?
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on March 28, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
I don't know. Those stairs sure do go down a long way.  ;)
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Regenbogen on March 29, 2020, 12:19:32 PM
If you opened a portal to the nevernever on Demonreach, it might open in a place like tartarus. Portals open into places that share similarities. So it could be.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Avernite on March 29, 2020, 08:41:52 PM
If you opened a portal to the nevernever on Demonreach, it might open in a place like tartarus. Portals open into places that share similarities. So it could be.
Eh.

Tartarus is two-fold though, punishment and jail. Demonreach is just a storage.

That said, I'm sure noone sane has tested this theory (although the Gatekeeper came pretty close in Turn Coat).
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: BrainFireBob on April 03, 2020, 11:07:36 PM
If time or reality are a toroid, inside Demonreach might be outside the Outer Gates.

That's if my WAG is correct, that the main purpose of Demonreach and the Warden is to contain the Nemesis-corrupted. So he's the counter-intelligence inside man, the cavalry for the Gatekeeper.

In which case, my other WAG- that it bleeds power deliberately from its prisoners, and that this is the true source of the ley line- might be it bleeding off the "cleaned" power.

Also, that the summoning circle exists for an ascension ritual for in extremis emergencies for the Warden.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: AClone on April 09, 2020, 12:08:28 AM
Given that text indicates that Demonreach's prisoners include "Dark Gods", I'm willing to entertain the possibility that "mere" Titans could be imprisoned there.


Also, that the summoning circle exists for an ascension ritual for in extremis emergencies for the Warden.
I found myself wondering how that would work. The one ascension ritual that Harry knows involves necromancy, and absorbing the life of ghosts and other undead spirits. I'm fairly sure there aren't many dead people in the island.

Perhaps there is another ritual that only involves "spirit" power, and I'd guess that either the spirit of the island--or Alfred--would suffice. However, I'd think that sucking the power from either would be counterproductive to the Warden's responsibilities. And I'm pretty sure that Alfred would...quibble.

Then there is the fact that if the Warden were to ascend to godhood, he'd probably find himself opposed by thirty or forty beings of the same power level.  Not to mention all of the "lesser" beings.

I suspect that someone, somewhen here has calculated just how many could be imprisoned every few feet in twelve tunnels a "mile or two" long.

After all, I recall that someone did make a good estimate of just what Harry's share of the diamonds was actually worth!
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on April 09, 2020, 12:34:26 AM
The one ascension ritual that Harry knows involves necromancy
...
After all, I recall that someone did make a good estimate of just what Harry's share of the diamonds was actually worth!
There's the one he encountered in Welcome to the Jungle.

It's really hard to figure out how much those diamonds would be worth because we don't know the size and quality of the diamonds and the diamond market is not exactly open. The estimates can range anywhere from "never have to work again if you're careful with your money" to "rivals the wealth of the poorest nations." Those were some good discussions.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: g33k on April 15, 2020, 06:37:40 AM
... we don't know the size and quality of the diamonds ...

Small enough that a stream of them seems to flow like water.

Large enough that a box of them, NOT moving, isn't mistaken for any other small crystals.

Is that helpful?

And absolutely top quality, because Hades.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Avernite on April 15, 2020, 07:42:20 AM
Given that text indicates that Demonreach's prisoners include "Dark Gods", I'm willing to entertain the possibility that "mere" Titans could be imprisoned there.
I found myself wondering how that would work. The one ascension ritual that Harry knows involves necromancy, and absorbing the life of ghosts and other undead spirits. I'm fairly sure there aren't many dead people in the island.

Perhaps there is another ritual that only involves "spirit" power, and I'd guess that either the spirit of the island--or Alfred--would suffice. However, I'd think that sucking the power from either would be counterproductive to the Warden's responsibilities. And I'm pretty sure that Alfred would...quibble.

Then there is the fact that if the Warden were to ascend to godhood, he'd probably find himself opposed by thirty or forty beings of the same power level.  Not to mention all of the "lesser" beings.

I suspect that someone, somewhen here has calculated just how many could be imprisoned every few feet in twelve tunnels a "mile or two" long.

After all, I recall that someone did make a good estimate of just what Harry's share of the diamonds was actually worth!

Or it uses the crystal to suck the power right out of the prisoners?

That'd turn the user a lot darker, but also very powerful and yet safe.
Title: Re: Battle Ground??
Post by: Bad Alias on April 15, 2020, 11:45:52 PM
Small enough that a stream of them seems to flow like water.

Large enough that a box of them, NOT moving, isn't mistaken for any other small crystals.

Is that helpful?

And absolutely top quality, because Hades.
As to the first part, I have no idea if that is helpful. I agree with the second part. With some of the higher calculations I saw, Harry's share was probably enough to crash the global market, what with diamond prices being high only because of the diamond cartel and what's probably the most successful marketing campaign in history. But with what the Church Mouse, whose name I can't remember, said, I can't imagine they are worth that much. I.e., not enough to noticeably effect the 82 billion dollar industry.

With what Nicodemus said about the $20 million, I imagine one of the boxes was probably worth at least 10 million.