18. I don't think Eb will die just yet. His death will have significant ramifications, I think, and I can't see the next book failing to explore those. Kinda feel the same way about Martha and Injun Joe, but I could be totally wrong.Eb's death (or anyone's really) could be explored in a really interesting way in Mirror Mirror with Eb (or, again, said anyone).
...
23. Christos might snuff it, if only because this book is bound to have political gamesmanship and I'd love to see him get caught up in his own scheme.
SadGry, a word I just made up.
35. Murphy's mom is 100% dying, in my opinion (pretty sure this is what Jim meant by his "Murphy's funeral." tweet), and it'll be entirely unrelated to the main plot. It'll just be one more thing for Harry to juggle.
Eb's death (or anyone's really) could be explored in a really interesting way in Mirror Mirror with Eb (or, again, said anyone).
I think Cristos will live precisely because he is either Black Council or has a firm grasp on the idiot ball. I'd bet he'll be around to cause problems for a while now.
That is possible, didn't think of that. After reading the Christmas Story, I was no longer completely convinced that Karrin will die in Peace Talks, because Harry wasn't acting like that had happened. But I thought of Karrin's father. Maybe the Murphy's funeral comment refered to his funeral. Maybe something significant happened there. Writing about Murphy's funeral could mean, that Karrin tells Harry about it. And they realize, someone said something or did something that explains what happened later. She only now understands.
That is possible, didn't think of that. After reading the Christmas Story, I was no longer completely convinced that Karrin will die in Peace Talks, because Harry wasn't acting like that had happened. But I thought of Karrin's father. Maybe the Murphy's funeral comment refered to his funeral. Maybe something significant happened there. Writing about Murphy's funeral could mean, that Karrin tells Harry about it. And they realize, someone said something or did something that explains what happened later. She only now understands.
Murphy hasn't been mentioned at all since Skin Game... It could mean nothing, she is recovering Harry is preoccupied with Maggie... But then again, it is odd given the implied direction for them at the end of Skin Game... We've seen avoidance in Harry before when he is grieving, that could be why she isn't mentioned at all, nor was she a part of Christmas... Very odd given how close Harry and her are, I know lots of plausible reasons for her not being there have been mentioned, but you'd think that a gift from her would carry at least as much weight as one from Mab... But no gift from "Aunt Karrin" was mentioned..
Yes. This could mean, she has died before Christmas. Or they broke up... But it doesn't necessarily mean she will die in Peace Talks. There could be another book between. Peace Talks is in summer. A lot can happen in half a year.
A Senior Council member and the Blackstaff snuffing it would have seriously significant consequences, and I don't see those consequences getting a chance to be explored in Mirror, Mirror.
... We may see something in Mirror Mirror, depending on how much time Harry spends in his reality, but we won't see a whole lot in that book.I expect that in Mirror Mirror, Harry-prime will learn that mirror-Harry is a member of a "Council" (or dare I say... Circle?) that is in full-on Sith-mode.
It's been decades since I've seen it. It's on Netflix. Season 2, Episode 4.
... Though I do agree that if Harry does become Blackstaff, he'll have to lose his mantle first. But yeah, I can totally see JB doing something like that...
I'm still thinking that Eb would fight L.Raith in PT and I can't really see both of them walking away from that.Eb already did. Took him about half a second to immobilize and humiliate her. It was a display of the kind of overwhelming superiority that cannot reasonably be opposed; and he wasn't even wielding the Blackstaff to do it -- just his own WC badassery...
If (as I have seen speculated) the Blackstaff itself is "Mother Winter's walking-stick" then putting it into the hands of the Winter Knight looks like all kinds of complications for Harry.
How could Jim possibly resist?
Eb already did. Took him about half a second to immobilize and humiliate her. It was a display of the kind of overwhelming superiority that cannot reasonably be opposed; and he wasn't even wielding the Blackstaff to do it -- just his own WC badassery...
Harry vs Lara would be something like a close match; advantage Lara if Harry has insufficient prep, advantage Harry if he has time.
Eb is at least a couple of steps up the power scale.
Part of me thinks that Harry would refuse to be the Blacksraff, he was so mad when he found out what Eb had done as part of his duties, I don't think he'd want any part of it.You mean when the WC wants to do something even MORE ethically disgusting than beheading a youth whose own magic corrupted them, because the WC never trained them to use said powers safely?
Lara versus Harry would get super complicated when you account for the Mantle's sex drive. Her whole thing is lust, and that's a primary motivator for the WK's Mantle. It wouldn't really be a physical fight so much as Harry desperately clinging to... well, at this point, chastity... while Lara does her best to tempt him. ...On the one hand... You are absolutely correct, that's a rather huge issue.
I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"
I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).
Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.
Part of me thinks that Harry would refuse to be the Blacksraff, he was so mad when he found out what Eb had done as part of his duties, I don't think he'd want any part of it.
I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"
I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).
Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.
Yeah, I think that could happen, I just don't want it to b/c there's so many more interesting things to do when Thomas is alive instead. I'm getting more onboard with the idea of Luccio dying than I used to be.Hmmm. I too would like to see lots more Thomas, and I think there's a fair bit of dramatic potential there; I don't think he's going YET. Also, in the Christmas Story, Harry seemed to be more generically sad about all the deaths, without (I thought) the specific agony of losing his brother. Still... maybe; I expect at least ONE person who is on the "Team Harry" shortlist to die, and the same "why isn't he specifically grieving for them" argument applies. So, ummm ... I dunno? I guess...
Lara versus Harry would get super complicated when you account for the Mantle's sex drive. Her whole thing is lust, and that's a primary motivator for the WK's Mantle. It wouldn't really be a physical fight so much as Harry desperately clinging to... well, at this point, chastity... while Lara does her best to tempt him.
I'd argue that the White Court vamps' effect would be in such strong agreement with the Mantle's core drives that it wouldn't even notice it working. It's all Lizard Brain stuff. Lara broadcasts her sex waves, and the Mantle responds with, "This is a GREAT idea!"
I doubt that the Mantle would have any specific defenses against White Court vamps. No idea how that would even work based on what we know about it, or magic in general. And it doesn't make sense to me that there'd be an If White Court Vampire, Then Shut This Thing Down line in the Mantle's code. It's not like it's got any other specifically-designed defenses that I can think of, just specifically-designed weaknesses (Iron and Winter itself).
Not saying Harry wouldn't (or, more likely, won't) be able to resist, just that he'd wind up fighting two influences rather than one.
If I recall correctly, in the short story Jury Duty we find that Harry; IMO because of the Winter Knight's mantel, is pretty much immune to White Court mojo. When a young female member of House Raith turns on her seduction vide, it just get's Harry P.O'd. I don't think Mab or Mother Winter for that matter, would burden the mortal champion of the Unseelie Fae with a Knight's mantel that makes the bearer susceptible to the White Court or any other type of succubus. Susceptible to anyone from Winter sure, but not to anyone outside the family.The way I read that, it implied that Harry could feel the mojo starting and decided to shut it down before it could go anywhere. The implication being that he had been on the receiving end of some major heavy-class White Court influence in the past, and the inexperienced Tanya's power was minor enough that he knew exactly what was happening and exactly how to stop it. I didn't attribute it to any sort of inherent immunity or resistance.
And yet Harry didn't have that ability in Blood Rites when Inari entered his room. Harry knew Inari was Thomas and Lara's youngest sister. Mouse was growling a puppy growl at Inari, Harry noticed a change in the way she moved; he called it "serpentine movement," he saw her eyes start to go silver and he said what he felt was different from what he felt when Lara did her thing, "but just as potent." The next thing Inari is running her tongue along Harry's collarbone and then kissing him and only Harry's immunity saved him.In the bedroom, he was worn out and distracted and, most importantly, had never been directly subjected to a WC vampire's feeding influence before. He'd developed an image of Inari in his head as this sweet, innocent girl with terrible taste in pizza, and was unprepared when she came into his room.
So I'm not sensing that a newby White Court vampire is any less dangerous than an experienced one. The mortal side of a new White Court vamp is immature and inexperienced, but the demon inside instinctively knows how to entice, entrap and kill.
We haven't had a major character of consequences die in some time.. Especially anyone on "Team Harry," who's death sends out serious repercussions for the rest of the series...
Winter Court...
1] Mab, a big one, if she dies, Molly becomes Queen... Big ripples..
2] Mother Winter, Mab becomes Mother, Molly becomes Queen, bigger ripples..
3] Lea, might hurt, but in my opinion not that big a deal.
The White Council..
1] Eb, yeah it would hurt, but ripples not huge
2] Listens to Wind, again like Eb, ripples not huge that goes for the rest of the Senior
Council with the exception of two..
3] Rashid, huge impact because he is the Gatekeeper, often the swing vote on the Council, also
he appears to be a major general in the fight to keep out Nemesis etc at the Gates, we have
no clue about just what he does, his death would be major...
4] The Merlin, mainly because of the power vacuum his death would create and the power struggle that would follow..
The White Court..
1] Thomas, for all the obvious reasons.. But he'd mainly matter to Harry, but ripples beyond that? Doubtful...
2] Lara, now her death would really stink up things..
Murphy, her death would cause a lot of personal pain for Harry, but her place in the universe is small...
Much to your chagrin, I think Murphy is the one person most likely to survive this mess other than people who have already been confirmed. She's almost certainly going to be involved, but in more of a coordinator of the Paranet role than a kicking ass role: I don't think JB is the type of person who's going to completely sideline a character with as imposing a presence as Murphy just because she's physically injured: he's made clear that he does NOT think that physical power is the be all end all of influence.
OK. Now the Murphy survival supporters have convinced me. She will live.
But maybe Elaine will die in PT. She still means a lot to Harry so her death will have some impact, but not as bad as Murphy's.
Before Elaine dies, it will be revealed who she is. I think it is time.
Yeah, I think experience is what's making Harry better at throwing off sexy-time whammies, so while it'd be tricky with fighting a Lara who'd probably have a reason to go all out. Harry would have to use a sucker punch.
Maybe it won't matter because of Harry's relationship with Murphy?
Remember, Harry has already beaten Lara's "going all out."
Escaping the Raith Deeps at the end, ragged and exhausted and out of fuel... he told her, "Kiss me" and used that to refuel his magic, to survive multiple C4 charges simul-detonating in an enclosed space, sufficient to launch a WizWhamp canonball thousands of feet away.
He intentionally set her up, triggered her Hunger in a way that she'd have no reason to hold back, at the end of a battle where she used a LOT of whamp-energy to fight... so she was ravenously Hungry. He took that, and used it for his own ends.
If either of them needs the advantage of a sucker-punch, it's Lara!
Yes, because absolutely nothing can get in the way of them consummating their relationship..... Well, maybe not.
No, this is wrong. Harry still had immunity. He didn't beat Lara's hunger then, he just got lucky.
@g33k: Oh yeah, if he ever framed it that way to her, yeah that'd be awesome. I think she could have some inkling of it, but yeah.
Sorry, I just realized that I kept putting L in front of Raith for all these fights and I meant to say Lord Raith and Eb throwing down was what I really wanted to see, awesome showdown between Harry and Lara aside.
@CrusherJen: Oooh, some of those are possibilities I hadn't considered. And so many fight scenes to get too! Although I do think this could be an opportunity for the Alphas to power up and have a chance to shine. Not sure if Elaine will show up, it'd be cool to see her lightening chain move again.
@BadAlias: I'm not sure if Harry and Murphy do hit true love, at least this quick. I could have sworn that being in love gave you some protection from the Whamp whammie, since Arturo Genosa seemed more or less ok when he showed up.
True love does protect, but one dalliance and the protection is rendered moot... What is weird is it is the the sex act itself, not the emotion of love or lack there of behind it that shatters the protection.
The sexual act does seem to have undue weight.
Look at the scene near the end of GS, where Justine figures out how to work around her and Thomas' "problem." I cheered her for finding a solution, but nevertheless... really, JB? Is it that much of a stupid-easy solution?
And if so, why isn't this stupid-easy solution common knowledge within the house filled with incubi & succubi???
I always assumed it had something to do with aura or souls. For example, Bob notices that Harry recently got a hug from Murphy at the end of one of the books (probably Small Favor, when Harry first chucks out Soulfire, but I can't recall exactly). The way Bob described it is that there's a kind of co-mingling going on there. I imagine sex is simply the strongest type of soul co-mingling that's possible, and since there's so much of two people's soul (or aura?), there's no room for a third party to feed on it.
The sexual act does seem to have undue weight.
Look at the scene near the end of GS, where Justine figures out how to work around her and Thomas' "problem." I cheered her for finding a solution, but nevertheless... really, JB? Is it that much of a stupid-easy solution?
And if so, why isn't this stupid-easy solution common knowledge within the house filled with incubi & succubi???
In the words of Thomas when explaining how he feeds at the hair salon, it's not sex, it's intimacy. Though it seems physical contact is also required. Therefore it's probably intimate physical contact that's required. There aren't too many acts of physical contact that are even arguably more intimate than sex. Sex between two people in "true" love would be both physically and emotionally intimate, and that level of intimacy is what's required to leave the protection. The intimacy act of sex would seem to be the minimum amount of intimacy to remove the protection.
Also, Madeline Raith had it figured out in Turn Coat.
Can any human action be entirely devoid of sentiment? Can sex be devoid of physical intimacy? Will I ever learn to spell intimacy without spell check?
I'll admit that your examples are devoid of positive sentiments, but not sentiment. It's difficult to use a weapon without sentiment. Also, we're talking about Jim "sex has consequences" Butcher's world, not the real one. I think he has a more traditional view of the meaning of sex than our culture at large does these days.
Another thing, is that the in book theory about why human practitioners have side effects is because they always have at least two conflicting motivations for their actions. Therefore, all human action has sentiment.
I don't think you addressed my point about physical intimacy.
Can any human action be entirely devoid of sentiment? Can sex be devoid of physical intimacy? Will I ever learn to spell intimacy without spell check?No. There is no such thing as human activity without some type of emotion. Yes if you define masturbation as sex.
Rape does not equal physical intimacy... Turning a trick in the back of an auto doesn't, nor does selling one's body.. Yet all of those will blow the true love protection...This is a trip down the rabbit hole. And I beg to disagree.
No. There is no such thing as human activity without some type of emotion. Yes if you define masturbation as sex.
So apparently true love doesn't protect, maybe it is mere monogamy..Your guess is as good as mine. However there is a quote from White Knight that suggests that, at least by implication.
"Bloody hell," she said after a moment. "I can't believe you're still protected. But it's old… My intelligence said Ms. Rodriguez hadn't left South America."
"She hasn't," I croaked.
"You mean…" She turned and blinked at me, astonishment on her face. "Dresden… do you mean to say that the last time you had relations with a woman was nearly four years ago?""Depressing," I said. "Isn't it."
Lara shook her head slowly. "I had just always assumed that you and Ms. Murphy…"
I grunted. "No. She… she doesn't want to get serious with me."
"And you don't want to be casual with her," Lara said.
"There's an outside chance that I have abandonment issues," I said.
"Still… a man like you and it's been four years…" She shook her head. "I have enormous personal respect for you, wizard. But that's just… sad."
Your guess is as good as mine. However there is a quote from White Knight that suggests that, at least by implication.
1a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long associationhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intimate
intimate friends
b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy
intimate clubs
c : engaged in, involving, or marked by sex or sexual relations
It must have been a shock for the author to realize—somewhere between contract and completed manuscript—that while Ms. Brickman was intimate with dozens of mobsters, she was close to none of them.
— Amy Pagnozzi
The father of three children by three women doesn't have a girlfriend and says he hasn't been intimate with anyone in two months.
— Michael Silver
2 : of a very personal or private nature
intimate secrets
3 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity
intimate knowledge of the law
4a : INTRINSIC, ESSENTIAL
b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
associated in close personal relations:https://www.dictionary.com/browse/intimate (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/intimate)
an intimate friend.
characterized by or involving warm friendship or a personally close or familiar association or feeling:
an intimate greeting.
very private; closely personal:
one's intimate affairs.
characterized by or suggesting an atmosphere conducive to privacy or intimacy; warmly cozy:
an intimate little café where we can relax and talk.
(of an association, knowledge, understanding, etc.) arising from close personal connection or familiar experience.
engaged in or characterized by sexual relations:
too young to handle an intimate relationship.
(of women's clothing) worn next to the skin, under street or outer garments:
a store that sells intimate apparel.
detailed; deep:
a more intimate analysis.
showing a close union or combination of particles or elements:
an intimate mixture.
inmost; deep within.
of, relating to, or characteristic of the inmost or essential nature; intrinsic:
the intimate structure of an organism.
of, relating to, or existing in the inmost depths of the mind:
intimate beliefs.
Yes if you define masturbation as sex.Ha!
What is weird is can one have more than one "true love?" By that I mean before he met Susan and fell in love with her, Elaine sounded like Harry's true love, however that might be because she was his first love... And yeah, I am familiar with the saying, " my, his, her, one and only true love." The protection from Susan remained until he hooked up with Luccio.. He loved her but she wasn't his true love, Susan remained that until she died... She still might be as far as Harry is concerned even if she is dead, but he is no longer protected.
For the purpose of this I define intimacy as someone being inside your personal zone. Examples, prolonged eye contact, inside your personal space, touching you(having sex is a subset of touching). Jim uses all of these at one point or another, in one fashion or another.
For the purposes of modeling what I think Jim is trying to represent with Thomas, I think of a capacitor. Justine's inserting another person into the equation would be like bleeding off a capacitor. As long as the cap is grounded it can't build up enough charge to hurt you. As long as Thomas isn't monogamous whatever it is that hurts him when he is with Justine never builds up enough to be harmful. YMMV.
(having sex is a subset of touching).
Apparently if Thomas had met Justine and loved her before his first kill the Hunger demon would have been burned out of him.It was only when they risked their lives for one another was it an expression of "true love." "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" John 15:13. Once again, agape love. Before that, they had sex multiple times. Harry compared Justine to Burger King, saying he wouldn't eat all his meals there even though it's his favorite restaurant.
I've been doing it so wrong. ;)
It was only when they risked their lives for one another was it an expression of "true love." "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" John 15:13. Once again, agape love. Before that, they had sex multiple times. Harry compared Justine to Burger King, saying he wouldn't eat all his meals there even though it's his favorite restaurant.