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The Dresden Files => DF Books => Topic started by: dark_sider1 on April 10, 2019, 09:58:25 PM
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So... which King do we think Butters is descended from?
Shiro was descended from Okinawa, Sanya from Saladin, and Michael from Charlemagne.
Of course, I say King... Butters may have been descended from a Queen!
Hope everyone is well... first post in a long time 😀
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Wellll.... Butters is Jewish; so, there was a Jewish fellow who was called King of Kings. Just a thought.
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Yes, but unless Dan Brown was really onto something, he didnt have any offspring.
Most likely he's from the line of David. After all, Jewish tradition highly looked down on marrying outside of God's chosen people. By now, they're probably ALL related to David in some way or another.
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Read the book, theory is possible. What guy lives for 33 years and doesn't get busy at least once?
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I wondered if we’d get a mention of the big JC!
The line of David is interesting... most European Royal Families are related in one way or another.
For some reason, I’m dying to plump for Richard the Lionheart. It would suit Butters fairly well, and we know that the Crown passed to Richard’s brother, John, as Richard didn’t have any children.
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Read the book, theory is possible. What guy lives for 33 years and doesn't get busy at least once?
I have, actually, and I think that anyone who takes it seriously probably has a full assortment of different kinds of tinfoil hats for all occasions.
And anyways, the idea of "what guy lives for 33 years and doesn't get busy at least once" is a valid argument if you start from the standpoint that it's ridiculous to think that JC was anything but a man. We know, for a fact, that in the Dresden Files he's at LEAST a scion of TWG, and most likely an aspect of him.
Jim bases his world off of myths, folklore, and world religion; he doesn't base it off of another fiction author's work. So there'd really be no reason, at all, to have to link Butters to someone who would have immense metaphysical implications if they DID have offspring, when he would already be linked to King David and King Solomon and their ancestors anyways.
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The idea of JC having kids has been around a lot longer than The Da VInci Code. Hell, it was a major plot point in Dogma, which was released 4 years before the Da Vinci Code book came out.
That's right, Dan Brown stole from Jay and Silent Bob.
It's most likely King David. Since the other well known Jewish King was Davids son, it all goes back to David.
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At this point, the "Kingship Theory" is only a theory. I'm inclined to suspect it's just a predilection / inclination, not a "requirement" of the Swords.
It is, after all, God's power, and He can bestow it where He wants. It's not like He has to follow the Magic Item Rules.
King David seems like a decent bet.
However -- Jim being Jim -- I'd be willing to believe that Butters is Elvis' grandson; yeah, THAT King.
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The idea of JC having kids has been around a lot longer than The Da VInci Code. Hell, it was a major plot point in Dogma, which was released 4 years before the Da Vinci Code book came out.
The theory about Christ's descendants goes back at least as far as the 1982 release of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" by Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln. The same theory pops up in the Preacher comics in the '90s, and Dogma. I think it's almost impossible that Butcher isn't well aware of the other takes on the theory, and if bigfoot is fair game, so is this.
OTOH, much is made of the power of belief in DF, and the belief that kings have divine power pops up in a lot of cultures. That and the right attitude might be enough to make someone a good Knight of the Cross.
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The way I read it, kings have divine responsibility. That responsibility may grant them access to divine power, but it is the responsibility that comes first, not the power.
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There were other claims. Jesus was not the only messiah running around trying to get rid of the Romans in those days.
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... so, there was a Jewish fellow who was called King of Kings. Just a thought.
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... Most likely he's from the line of David ...
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Also worth noting -- Jesus was of the line of David.
Two-fer! ;)
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Might as well, this dead thread has been resurrected more times than Jesus.
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Also worth noting -- Jesus was of the line of David.
Two-fer! ;)
Via two completely different family trees which makes it quite likely that both are invented. We can make a nice family tree that links Butters to Jesus and Maria Magdalena, the favorite woman for this purpose. Or Jesus brother James if you want to. No problem.
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Via two completely different family trees which makes it quite likely that both are invented. We can make a nice family tree that links Butters to Jesus and Maria Magdalena, the favorite woman for this purpose. Or Jesus brother James if you want to. No problem.
If they were inventing stuff, they'd have simply deleted one of the inventions to keep the story straight. It is real history that doesn't make sense.
Mary Magdalen doesn't get the 'woman of loose morals' shtick until the Middle Ages, so no.
Jesus' 4 brothers, and unknown number of sisters (minimum 2) are a serious option though.
Grandsons of Jesus' brother Judas were taken to Rome by the Emperor Domitian, and then sent home.
Eusebius of Caesarea's Ecclesiastical History records family members (referred to as Desposyni) as still being around when he was writing in the 4thC AD. Given how breeding works, we're probably all descended from them by now.
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If they were inventing stuff, they'd have simply deleted one of the inventions to keep the story straight. It is real history that doesn't make sense.
If you do that sort of redaction to the four gospels you are creating a new one. These are four different books with four different messages. Such a redaction never took place because the four books were well established before they were put together.
Fabricating family trees is an very old and well established tradition and it is not the only place were the gospel writers made something up to fulfill their interpretation of the Old Testament prophesies. If Jesus himself or his family were the source of that tree we only would have had one.
Mary Magdalen doesn't get the 'woman of loose morals' shtick until the Middle Ages, so no.
And we are making this up after the Middle Ages and a lot of work is already done in holy blood holy grail so we can use that.
And there is a huge difference between harlot and spouse.
Jesus' 4 brothers, and unknown number of sisters (minimum 2) are a serious option though.
Grandsons of Jesus' brother Judas were taken to Rome by the Emperor Domitian, and then sent home.
Eusebius of Caesarea's Ecclesiastical History records family members (referred to as Desposyni) as still being around when he was writing in the 4thC AD. Given how breeding works, we're probably all descended from them by now.
Yes but for a royal line you are never interested in all descendants but only in those with a reasonable claim to the inheritance according to the inheritance laws of the culture of the king in question.