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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: morriswalters on January 11, 2019, 09:30:07 PM

Title: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 11, 2019, 09:30:07 PM
While fact checking a post elsewhere, I reread an exchange between Harry and Lea prior to her showing him the Stone Table in Summer Knight. Here is the exchange.
Quote from: Summer Knight
Lea completed her circuit of the table and stopped beside me. She glanced furtively around her, then looked me in the eyes and said, her voice barely audible, "Child. Should you survive this conflict, do not let Mab bring you here. Never."
This is foreshadowing of Mab wanting Harry to become the Winter Knight. But while Lea's debt to Margaret would explain why she makes him aware of the Stone Table and its purpose. It does not explain why she would or could, warn him against Mab's plan.  And she fears Mab knowing that she has done so.  In this exchange in Changes we will see that Mab is now aware the Lea warned him.  Because Lea says I told you so in Mab's presence.
Quote from: Changes
“I warned you,” said a calm voice behind me. “Never let her bring you here, my godchild.”
Mab's lack of response tells us that Mab knows and Lea is no long afraid that she does.  Lea then tells Harry that Mab is angry and Mab punishes her for doing so, by slashing her face.
Quote from: Changes
My godmother bowed her head to Mab, and the cold voice came from her mouth again. “It is not for my handmaiden to judge or question me, nor to speak for me upon her own account.”
So returning now to Summer Knight with this context, I'm calling this Lea's downfall.  We see everybody in the battle for the Stone Table but Lea.  And in a fight for power she should have been there.  I think this is when Lea is revealed to Mab as Nemfected.

Opinions?  I may be reading too much into this.

Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: 123Chikadee on January 11, 2019, 09:47:23 PM
I dunno, I think you're onto something. Jim does play the long game in terms of foreshadowing.
Maybe after being nemfected, Lea had some personality changes, and she isn't as afraid of Mab after all that as happened.
Maybe Margaret and Mab's long term plans for Harry are at cross-purposes? Ok, so yeah, that's probably true already, at face value but still it could run even deeper than that.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 02:48:55 AM
Quote
"Shame, child, is for those who fail to live up to the ideal of what they believe they should be." She waved her hand. "It was shame that drove me to my queen, to beseech her aid." Her long, delicate fingers idly moved to the streaks of white in her otherwise flawless red tresses.
"But she showed me the way back to myself, through exquisite pain, and now I am here to watch over my dear godson--and the rest of you, as long as it is quite convenient."

Lea tried to fight the infection herself, she tried to stay herself, she tried to preserve her nature but was failing and recognised it. So she went to Mab, she turned herself in. This is confirmed in Proven Guilty where we see a Lea battling with herself telling Harry it is not yet safe to free her.

There she talks about the infection:

Quote
Some of the strength seemed to ebb from her, and she suddenly seemed exhausted. “I grew too arrogant with the power I held. I thought I could overcome
Quote
what stalks us all
. Foolish. Milady Queen Mab taught me the error of my ways.”

Both are references to Nemesis, a sspiritual infection. It came with the power of the knife.
 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 12, 2019, 04:13:51 AM
I know she is Nemfected.  What I'm trying to establish is how long she was off the leash before Mab put her in the deep freeze.

edit restated the point.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 12, 2019, 05:44:43 AM
I know she is Nemfected.  What I'm trying to establish is how long she was off the leash before Mab put her in the deep freeze.

edit restated the point.

I had written a thread about this myself maybe a couple of years ago when I began to reread the series.  Knowing what we know now, it does sound like Lea was infected before she got the Knife.
Now she may have been unaware that she was infected and was being used by the Enemy..  One of the clues that she was was her seeming ambition and opposition to Mab.. Notice after her stay in the deep freeze both her ambition and her opposition disappear.   
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 06:50:57 AM
Whe know the knife was the source of the infection and she got it in grave peril. How the infection works can differ from person to person, it was quite crude and almost immediate with cat sith, so the influence started probably quite fast in grave peril but Lea only became aware of how treacherous the gift was much later. Mab was not aware of that during summer knight. The rest is guessing but I think Lea infected Maeve first and Maeve infected aurora. I prefer a single source of infection because ir it was easy to bring infective material from beyond the gates the war would have been over already.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 12, 2019, 12:23:42 PM
Whe know the knife was the source of the infection and she got it in grave peril. How the infection works can differ from person to person, it was quite crude and almost immediate with cat sith, so the influence started probably quite fast in grave peril but Lea only became aware of how treacherous the gift was much later. Mab was not aware of that during summer knight. The rest is guessing but I think Lea infected Maeve first and Maeve infected aurora. I prefer a single source of infection because ir it was easy to bring infective material from beyond the gates the war would have been over already.
Yes, however there was something slightly off about Lea before the Knife..  While yes, Harry misusing the Sword trying to kill her lost it to her, what were her motives to trade it for the Knife in
the first place?  She didn't want it to give to her queen, she wanted it to supplant her  queen, I don't think that is normal even in Fae politics..  When Maeve became exposed to the Knife later, she too wanted to overthrow her mother.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 01:12:35 PM
Yes, however there was something slightly off about Lea before the Knife..  While yes, Harry misusing the Sword trying to kill her lost it to her, what were her motives to trade it for the Knife in
the first place?  She didn't want it to give to her queen, she wanted it to supplant her  queen, I don't think that is normal even in Fae politics..  When Maeve became exposed to the Knife later, she too wanted to overthrow her mother.
I do not think that is especially strange for winter, of course she wants power for herself. She saw an opportunity to seize power and she took it. She is not changed in that respect either though she might be somewhat more carefull. The ambition in itself is totally winter, it is also for that reason that Molly has to swat them down all the time but she should act inside the rules

After she got the knife she got infected and her thoughts and actions got influenced or even dictated by Nemesis. She stopped obeying the rules.

Nemesis builds on an existing base, Maeves resentment to her mother was also not new she was neglecting her job long before she was infected after all.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 12, 2019, 04:29:53 PM
I do not think that is especially strange for winter, of course she wants power for herself. She saw an opportunity to seize power and she took it. She is not changed in that respect either though she might be somewhat more carefull. The ambition in itself is totally winter, it is also for that reason that Molly has to swat them down all the time but she should act inside the rules

After she got the knife she got infected and her thoughts and actions got influenced or even dictated by Nemesis. She stopped obeying the rules.

Nemesis builds on an existing base, Maeves resentment to her mother was also not new she was neglecting her job long before she was infected after all.

Or had Lea gone against the rules by taking the Knife in the first place?  Maeve did prehaps resent her mother and was neglecting her job, but she wasn't trying to kill and gain her mother's place before the infection..   This is why Mab says, "it was the Knife.." 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 05:33:11 PM
Or had Lea gone against the rules by taking the Knife in the first place?  Maeve did prehaps resent her mother and was neglecting her job, but she wasn't trying to kill and gain her mother's place before the infection..   This is why Mab says, "it was the Knife.."
It is not against the rules to take power if you can arrange it within the rules and that is exactly what she thought she was doing but it was a treacherous gift, she was betrayed.

It was completely within the rules, she even arranged for an equivalent gift to keep balance. She only got arrogant after she came under influence and she felt shame because of that.

Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 12, 2019, 06:25:33 PM
It is not against the rules to take power if you can arrange it within the rules and that is exactly what she thought she was doing but it was a treacherous gift, she was betrayed.

It was completely within the rules, she even arranged for an equivalent gift to keep balance. She only got arrogant after she came under influence and she felt shame because of that.

   Just what are the rules?  Is there a quote or WOJ?   Consider what Lea said in Proven Guilty when
Harry found her packed in ice.
 
Quote
"I grew too arrogant with the power I held. I thought I could overcome what stalks us all. Milady Queen Mab taught me the error of my ways."

Then on the next page.

Quote
"I cannot yet be trusted.  It is not time.  I would not fulfill my promise to your mother, should you free me now.  You must leave."

Perhaps she did grow arrogant with the power she held and that was how the Enemy was able to tempt her.  She also thought she could over come the infection on her own...  Knowing Mab as we
know her, unless there was mitigating circumstances like being infected, do you honestly think she'd even consider giving her a second chance?  She speaks of trust, if the Winter Court was all about power struggles as you suggest, it wouldn't be an issue... Especially before she got the Knife, if there wasn't evidence that she was infected before, I think Mab simply would have killed her, not treated her.   
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 07:28:53 PM
   Just what are the rules?  Is there a quote or WOJ?   
Only what we can infer from the books but I think that is enough. Winter is about struggle for power. The dagger was just too big a temptation for most beings of winter. Trying to get stronger is what is expected from you in winter. It is all in what Lea teaches Harry as well.
Quote
Consider what Lea said in Proven Guilty when
Harry found her packed in ice.
That was about after she became infected. Before that, before the dagger, she was just the normal Lea. It was the struggle to preserve that Lea that drove her to Mab, because she was failing.
Quote
Then on the next page.

Perhaps she did grow arrogant with the power she held and that was how the Enemy was able to tempt her. 
The dagger is power, only magical power of considerable size can probably contain an infection.
Quote
She also thought she could over come the infection on her own...  Knowing Mab as we
know her, unless there was mitigating circumstances like being infected, do you honestly think she'd even consider giving her a second chance? 
Of course she was infected. What I read in your text is that she was infected before she accepted the dagger and that is contrary to what both Mab en Lea said and not a necessary condition for picking up the dagger in the first place because thirst for power is a perfectly acceptable motive for that.
Quote
She speaks of trust, if the Winter Court was all about power struggles as you suggest, it wouldn't be an issue...
The trust is in things typical fairy like not being able to lie and keeping balance. It is about the rules she can not break and oaths given. The infected can break these things and so can not be trusted.

It is about how Harry can trust Lea and can not trust Lea.
Quote
Especially before she got the Knife, if there wasn't evidence that she was infected before, I think Mab simply would have killed her, not treated her.   
She was quite clear in dead beat about the value of Lea as a vassal. The point was that she could be cured and that it was worthwhile, the exact moment of infection was not really important for that. The other thing was that she was her vassal and asked her liege for help. Mab might not even be able to refuse that help under these circumstances.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 12, 2019, 07:40:40 PM
Mab specifically points out Morgana's Athame as the source of the infection.  Having the Athame wouldn't make  a difference as long as the relative power remained the same.
Quote
During our last encounter I returned to Faerie with great power and upset vital balances. Those balances had to be redressed, and your debt was the mechanism that the Queen chose to employ."
For some reason, Harry=Athame.  This is reasonable if you assume Mab and Lea are aware of things we are not.
Quote from: Mira
I think Mab simply would have killed her, not treated her.
No.  She also didn't kill Slade.  Lea represents power. Much as Slade's Winter Mantle represented power.  Who would replace her?



Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 12, 2019, 08:26:44 PM
Quote
Mab specifically points out Morgana's Athame as the source of the infection.  Having the Athame wouldn't make  a difference as long as the relative power remained the same.

Yes, but in reference to her daughter, not necessarily Lea..  Having the Athame would make a difference since it is very much a symbol of power, it could also have given Lea and advantage over Mab.. These things do not happen in a void,  Doing the reread, Lea was indeed off just a bit pre-party in Grave Peril.   
Quote
No.  She also didn't kill Slade.  Lea represents power. Much as Slade's Winter Mantle represented power.  Who would replace her?

Apples to oranges...  Slade wasn't infected as far as we know, if it is true that humans cannot be infected, he wasn't..  He just worked with Aurora to betray Mab..  So Mab made him suffer, she also kept him around until she could get Harry.  I think many of us are in agreement that Aurora was infected.. She had no contact with the Knife, since that was pre Knife.. If she was, then it is possible that Lea also was.  Remember Aurora's madness wasn't all that apparent at first either until she was so far gone that she had to die, just as Maeve had to die.  Lea is important to Mab and was judged not to be so far gone as she could be cured.. But if she couldn't be cured or if her attempt at a power grab was sans infection?   Yeah, Mab would have had her be dead and worried about a replacement later.
Quote
She was quite clear in dead beat about the value of Lea as a vassal. The point was that she could be cured and that it was worthwhile, the exact moment of infection was not really important for that. The other thing was that she was her vassal and asked her liege for help. Mab might not even be able to refuse that help under these circumstances.
So?  Maeve was her daughter, and her Winter Lady yet Mab ordered her death...
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 09:05:29 PM
So?  Maeve was her daughter, and her Winter Lady yet Mab ordered her death...
Mab wanted to safe Maeve but she needed Maeves help for it to succeed. Lea fought for her sanity and asked Mab for help, She fought her infection. Maeve embraced it and so even Mab could not help her.

Mab would have helped Maeve if she wanted to be helped. Now she could only have her killed.

Quote
“It isn’t too late,” Sarissa said. “You know how she lays her plans. She prepares for everything. But it doesn’t have to happen that way. The Leanansidhe was sick and Mother helped her. But her power alone isn’t enough to heal you. You have to want it, Maeve. You have to want to be healed.”

But she did not want it. She had no shame like Lea had:

Quote
Then she lifted her head and stared venomously at Sarissa. “I am strong, Sarissa. Stronger than I have ever been. Here, now, stronger than she is.” Her lips quivered and twitched back from her teeth into a hideous mockery of a smile. “Why should I want to be healed of that?”

She did not fight it so Mab could not help her.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 12, 2019, 09:30:09 PM
Quote
She did not fight it so Mab could not help her.

   Actually we do not know that.. 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 12, 2019, 10:16:46 PM
   Actually we do not know that..
The quotes from Cold Days point in that direction. Sarissa is no dummy.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 12, 2019, 11:35:21 PM
Lea is off at the best of times.  However in terms of how the infection was spread the text is explicit.
Quote
"It was the knife," Mab said.
"Knife?"
"Morgana's athame," Mab said in a neutral tone--but her eyes were far away.
"The one given her by the Red Court at Bianca's masquerade.  That was how the Leanasidhe was tainted--and your Godmother spread it to Maeve before I could set it right."
It's about power.  It's likely that Maeve was infected at or around Summer Knight.  With the Winter Knight, Maeve, and Lea off the board Mab was isolated.  It drives the story line.  Grave Peril is ten or so years in the past in Harry time by Cold Days.  During that time Mab has been weak.  Proven Guilty and Small Favor  are driven by that.  She isn't acting, she's reacting.  She can't go on offense because her board is weak.  She may have traitors within and Summer may still be compromised.

Lea reenters the story in in Changes, Harry becomes the Winter Knight.  Whatever Harry's reason for the events of Changes this is the beginning of Mab's vengeance.  Lea gets to balance the scales for Winter and herself.  Cold Days  fills the board. With Molly as Winter Lady and Sarissa as the Summer Lady.  And this completes the Winter Arc.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 13, 2019, 02:09:50 AM
Lea is off at the best of times.  However in terms of how the infection was spread the text is explicit.It's about power.  It's likely that Maeve was infected at or around Summer Knight.  With the Winter Knight, Maeve, and Lea off the board Mab was isolated.  It drives the story line.  Grave Peril is ten or so years in the past in Harry time by Cold Days.  During that time Mab has been weak.  Proven Guilty and Small Favor  are driven by that.  She isn't acting, she's reacting.  She can't go on offense because her board is weak.  She may have traitors within and Summer may still be compromised.

Lea reenters the story in in Changes, Harry becomes the Winter Knight.  Whatever Harry's reason for the events of Changes this is the beginning of Mab's vengeance.  Lea gets to balance the scales for Winter and herself.  Cold Days  fills the board. With Molly as Winter Lady and Sarissa as the Summer Lady.  And this completes the Winter Arc.

No, I think Mab believes that Maeve was infected by the Knife, now Aurora is another story, she was infected just before Summer Knight.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 13, 2019, 04:35:05 AM
I have ideas about Aurora but there is nothing directly in the text, except Titania's remark about knowing what she had become. 

Since Mab is allied with the Gatekeeper, she more than anyone other than the Gatekeeper, should be able to spot something like that.  So I consider it gospel that the infection occurred the way she suggested.

The torture of Lea may have been as much about finding out who else might have been infected as curing her. And this could be how Maeve is uncovered.  And Lea suggested in Changes that it isn't completely gone.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Arjan on January 13, 2019, 07:51:05 AM
I have ideas about Aurora but there is nothing directly in the text, except Titania's remark about knowing what she had become. 

Since Mab is allied with the Gatekeeper, she more than anyone other than the Gatekeeper, should be able to spot something like that.  So I consider it gospel that the infection occurred the way she suggested.

The torture of Lea may have been as much about finding out who else might have been infected as curing her. And this could be how Maeve is uncovered.  And Lea suggested in Changes that it isn't completely gone.
That was yet another reason for Mab to save Lea, her value as a source of information. How important that is was shown by the attack on arctic tor.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Bad Alias on January 14, 2019, 04:32:34 AM
Lea is Mab's "trusted enemy." I can't remember which book this originates from, but Harry later says he can be Mab's trusted enemy, like Lea. Mab responds that she won't/can't ever trust Harry. Therefore, it is likely that Lea would try to supplant Mab if she thought she could.

I don't know if it is ever stated explicitly by anyone other than Harry, but it is stated that after Mab found out about Maeve's infection, her voice injured mortals. If this is the case, Mab didn't find out until after Dead Beat.

Lea was probably at the Battle of the Stone Table. Her absence would have been noticed and she did strongly imply that she was going to be there.

I think that she warned Harry away from the Stone Table, and thus becoming the Winter Knight, because she was obligated to as his spiritual director.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 14, 2019, 12:29:03 PM
What ever the nature of Lea's debt to Margaret, she has never been as forthcoming as she is in that passage. However that's my WAG and it isn't well supported. And I'm grasping at straws.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: prince lotore on January 14, 2019, 07:18:51 PM
I have always believed that the infection was giving them a soul.  It would explain how it allows the fey to go against their nature and why people like harry haven't been targeted. I know people think victor was infected but it looked to me like a power hungry guy who got easily corrupted.  why corrupt 4 FBI agents with wolf pelts when you could infect the entire bureau.  Why wouldn't lord wraith infect his son to get him to fall in line and give in to his demon and while he is at it get harry. 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 14, 2019, 08:17:47 PM
I have always believed that the infection was giving them a soul.  It would explain how it allows the fey to go against their nature and why people like harry haven't been targeted. I know people think victor was infected but it looked to me like a power hungry guy who got easily corrupted.  why corrupt 4 FBI agents with wolf pelts when you could infect the entire bureau.  Why wouldn't lord wraith infect his son to get him to fall in line and give in to his demon and while he is at it get harry.

Too obvious....  It is kind of like what Madeline Albright  says how fascism take hold.. She likens it to plucking a chicken feather by feather.  Do it all at once, it gets noticed and stopped, but do it feather by feather, no one notices until it is too late and the chicken is naked.. 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Bad Alias on January 14, 2019, 08:30:09 PM
@morriswalters: Lea is Harry's godmother and must do whatever that entails. I considered going through the books and getting everything people say about what a godmother is, but I figured it would keep me up too late. My first thoughts were what Aurora says in Summer Knight and what Lea says in Ghost Story about education. There are other tidbits here and there, but I doubt I could remember them all.

@prince lotore: I think the infection isn't that easy to spread. I think every instance of someone doing bad/outsider friendly things isn't because they are infected. I also think humans can be infected. Lily definitely believed humans could be infected, but she also believed she could detect it so that doesn't give us a definitive answer. I do think Maeve didn't lie about everything because that would make it easier to find out she could lie. Also, Harry was cautioned against using the name Nemesis because it could draw its attention. Now I imagine that would be bad whether or not Nemesis could infect humans because it would make Nemesis aware that Harry was aware of it, but Nemesis is already aware of Harry and that he knows of Nemesis by the time he learns the name.

As to Mira's point, the way Nemesis operates is a lot like how Peabody operated in mind controlling everybody. He did it subtly except where it couldn't be observed or when he had already been caught. Not being noticed is the whole point of using covert instead of overt methods.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 14, 2019, 09:35:38 PM
Godmothers succor children.  Lea got onboard when Harry is effectively was an adult.  And then she bound him in various forms of debt and obligation.  But never has she spoken directly in terms of knowledge that has power without making Harry pay the piper.  Which was why I thought she might be infected in Summer Knight.

My model for the infection is the coins.  Touch them and you are infected.  But insidiously.  Much in the same vein of Harry and Lash.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 14, 2019, 11:33:12 PM
Godmothers succor children.  Lea got onboard when Harry is effectively was an adult.  And then she bound him in various forms of debt and obligation.  But never has she spoken directly in terms of knowledge that has power without making Harry pay the piper.  Which was why I thought she might be infected in Summer Knight.

My model for the infection is the coins.  Touch them and you are infected.  But insidiously.  Much in the same vein of Harry and Lash.

No, long before that, she made a promise to Harry's mother to protect him...  Now if the Enemy knows he is a star born it makes sense that they'd try to infect and pervert her to get to Harry.  Also consider her actions which frightened Harry to such a degree that he'd grab Michael's Sword and try to kill her, thus losing it to her.. Now she had something to bring to the party, gain the Knife and in the process a Holy Sword would be unmade.. Yeah, I seriously doubt that Lea didn't know what would happen to the Sword once she gave it up..   More evidence that her mind was being affected, long before she had the Knife in her possession..
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: segaily on January 15, 2019, 12:22:01 AM
No, long before that, she made a promise to Harry's mother to protect him...  Now if the Enemy knows he is a star born it makes sense that they'd try to infect and pervert her to get to Harry.  Also consider her actions which frightened Harry to such a degree that he'd grab Michael's Sword and try to kill her, thus losing it to her.. Now she had something to bring to the party, gain the Knife and in the process a Holy Sword would be unmade.. Yeah, I seriously doubt that Lea didn't know what would happen to the Sword once she gave it up..   More evidence that her mind was being affected, long before she had the Knife in her possession..

While I agree with the first part of this that if the Enemy knows he is a star born it makes sense that they'd try to infect and pervert Lea.  I would not however take Lea's attempt to get the sword as evidence of anything.  The sword is primarily a weapon against the fallen not outsiders.  Winter fights outsiders not fallen why would winter or Lea care if the fallen gain an advantage as long as they were getting something they considered just as good or better. 

Lea could have even considered it her duty to help Harry to learn a lesson and that he should have known he did not need try the sword. 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Mira on January 15, 2019, 05:24:22 AM
While I agree with the first part of this that if the Enemy knows he is a star born it makes sense that they'd try to infect and pervert Lea.  I would not however take Lea's attempt to get the sword as evidence of anything.  The sword is primarily a weapon against the fallen not outsiders.  Winter fights outsiders not fallen why would winter or Lea care if the fallen gain an advantage as long as they were getting something they considered just as good or better. 

Lea could have even considered it her duty to help Harry to learn a lesson and that he should have known he did not need try the sword.

Advantage was using Lea as a cat's paw to gain further access to the Winter Court though the Knife.
While Lea would think as you say, all the while she was being used for a greater goal, infiltration of the Winter Court, it's principle foe.. 
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Bad Alias on January 15, 2019, 06:20:26 AM
Lea was at the Battle of the Stone Table. Mab mentions her to Harry. She was with Maeve. Maeve says to Harry, "[y]our godmother sends her greetings."

Aurora refers to a godmother as a teacher and a guide. She says Lea taught Harry "[t]he strong conquer and the weak are conquered" after Harry says the only thing Lea taught him was that he must be smarter and stronger than Lea and willing use those advantages against her.

Lea confirms that Harry was her student in Ghost Story. She says teaching "is the dissemination of power unto a new generation and nothing less." Having the Fomor attack Molly was a lesson to Harry as much as it was to Molly.

After Lea delivers her monologue about how she has always protected him with her garden and Harry realizes that was why she was always quick to attack him in the Nevernever, because she was always there protecting him from everything but her, she says:
Quote
It is good that you have taken my lessons to heart, child. It is a cold and uncaring universe we live in. Only with strength of body and mind can you hope to control your own fate. Be wary of everyone. Even your own protector.

I think all this (except the first part, which is just something I noticed looking for Aurora's quote, but bears on the last point in the original post) supports my contention that Lea warned Harry away from the Stone Table because she was his godmother and not because she was infected.

The first part may have been when Lea spread the infection to Maeve.

As to what Lea being Harry's godmother entails, we know it entails teaching him and protecting him, specifically from threats to his home directly from the Nevernever. It could be more.

One question this leaves for me is how did the Nightmare get to him in Grave Peril? It probably has to do with Harry traveling to the Nevernever in his dream, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: morriswalters on January 15, 2019, 11:01:14 AM
Mab confirms she is his teacher in Dead Beat.
Quote
"Of course," Mab said. "Yet she languishes in the process of enlightenment. Thus am I here to fulfill her obligation to teach and guide you."
I stand debunked on the Stone Table. 
Quote from: Bad Alias
I think all this (except the first part, which is just something I noticed looking for Aurora's quote, but bears on the last point in the original post) supports my contention that Lea warned Harry away from the Stone Table because she was his godmother and not because she was infected.
It isn't a question of why. She ends up an Leasickle because to quote Mab.
Quote
"Certain events had convinced your godmother that she was no longer bound by my word and will. She is now learning otherwise."
My question is, should she have been able to warn Harry of Mab's plan?

Title: Re: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Bad Alias on January 16, 2019, 03:28:32 AM
So a godmother is a teacher, protector (limited), and guide. Notice how much more info Harry got out of Mab than he usually does out of Lea? I take that to mean that she is an underutilized asset of Harry's.

It might be she is obligated to tell Harry and she is obligated to not tell Harry, so she says something indirect. She didn't say you must never accept Mab's offer. Kind of how he asked who killed him in Ghost Story, and Lea something like "I must answer, but I cannot tell you." (paraphrase).
Title: Lea and the Adversary
Post by: Timothyjar on January 31, 2019, 02:04:34 AM
Sasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quadSasha and the quad

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

All I can say is: Put-up or shut-up.

Ive never seen anyone milk so much publicity from a non-existant element before in my life.