The more important question I can't wait to get answered is who the f created that big impact that mab decides to cash billions in weregild to control the damn backlash.Did she? Molly is rich now. Maybe it was just Molly’s gift to Harry. :-)
even without knowing what happened, does anyone think there's any way the mortal world will be able to explain something this major away? Will this be the straw that draws the Librarians out into the open? Brings the government out against the magical community? or are they(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
it appears that the Carpenters survived fairly well, who do we think didn't?
Hmm... There weren't any mentions about Murphy.We can not expect any mentioning of people who might die because that would be a huge spoiler.
I mean we did have that twitter post of Jim that was an alleged jest about him writing Murphy's funeral.
I wonder what happened to her. How sidelined is she. Was she removed from the board in some way? Does the characters on screen emotional states allow for the possibility that something significant had happened to Murphy?
I found it interesting that Mab experienced pain when Harry posed the possibility of not accepting the gift on Maggie's behalf. And that she wanted Maggie to know who gave it to her.
The more important question I can't wait to get answered is who the f created that big impact that mab decides to cash billions in weregild to control the damn backlash.
We can not expect any mentioning of people who might die because that would be a huge spoiler.True, but you know who didn't. Which leaves with a short list.
Not sure why Molly, Mab, and Kringle all showed up separately but they did anyway.
though obviously it means Murphy isn't coming over to live in Harry's house,Because Harry has got no house he's at Micheal's, unless I misread you..
Mab with the gift for Maggie was the ghost of Christmas future (I wonder if Harry can extend the life of the ring)Harry calls her out as the Ghost of Christmas Past with the quote.(A Christmas Carol is my favorite Christmas story) I personally have no idea.
The more important question I can't wait to get answered is who the f created that big impact that mab decides to cash billions in weregild to control the damn backlash.What weregild? Paying for funerals is different from weregild. Also, controlling the backlash isn't something you do just by paying for funerals. Especially if it's a "big impact" which very possibly would include non-supernatural mortals. Uninvolved people have no obligation to give any kind of damn about the Accords. You can't force them to silence just by offering to pay up.
I found it interesting that Mab experienced pain when Harry posed the possibility of not accepting the gift on Maggie's behalf. And that she wanted Maggie to know who gave it to her.
So in addition to being a Knight of the Cross, and a Wizard, and a dozen other things, Malcolm Dresden was also Kringle.Well, I've only ever said he was a KotC. So this would only be the second thing I've suggested he was. :P
Because obviously the idea that he was a normal guy is just too lame.
My takeaways
- Molly's concern about Harry still being himself may just be due to the Knight mantle, but that's already been hashed a bit. But Eb dying and Harry getting the Blackstaff would give him someone to grieve over, it'd give Molly a reason to be concerned about him still being him, and it'd certainly make others think twice when Harry started yelling in their faces.
I had the feeling that Molly realizes the Winter Lady's mantle is changing her too. No one else besides Molly (and the other Queens of Fairie) knows the pressure the Winter Knight's mantel has placed on Harry, because Molly has felt a similar and perhaps a greater pressure from the Winter Lady's mantle. With the possible exception of Sarissa, the other Queens of Faerie might have the knowledge of how the Knight's mantel can twist its human host, but they are far beyond being able to empathize with that person. Apparently, Molly still can.Sarissa knows, she was quite clear about that in cold days. And I am not sure about lack of empathy either, Mother summer was not without it.
Seriously, Kringle had the cup. Harry didn't say it was like the one he'd given his dad, or that it was conjured. He said it was the one he'd given his dad.Maybe you aren't paying close enough attention. Read page two. And then this.
Was it really it? Why would Kringle have it?
“Because tonight,” Kringle said, “that is what I do.” His blue eyes crinkled at the corners as he smiled. “And because you’re on my list, lad.”
On a completely different note...The story doesn't say it's her first bike.
Is it just my warped Dutch senses, or is Maggie crazy old to be getting what appears to be her first bike?
The story doesn't say it's her first bike.
Plus, given the life she's led? It hasn't been a priority. Until recently, she apparently couldn't do much at all without literally hanging on to Mouse, too.
So, yes, she's old for a first bike, but there's reasons for it.
I'm with Maggie, when I was her age red was my favorite color too! ;D Hmmmm... There is a hint of humanity in Mab, and with her daughter being the Summer Lady now, looks like things will be a bit better as far as Summer/Winter relations may be a bit warmer.... But why is Mab even attempting to be nice to Harry by giving his daughter a gift?
Face it, a bike isn't that hard to put together, and usually a kid's bike is bought in one piece... So
did Maggie and Harry come to stay with the Carpenters just for Christmas? At the last story, Harry was moving into Molly's old place... Notice she came when her father wasn't in the room? Do they know now, have either side resolved what has happened to her?
Kringle, very very sweet, his gift to Harry.. Special, very special, why now? To bring comfort...
Since this takes place after Peace Talks apparently, maybe at least six months after... The depth of
Harry's grief says to me at any rate, one or more of three very important people in Harry's life is
no longer with us. The candidates are in order, Murphy, Eb, or Thomas... I doubt that he would
be in such morning for members of the White Council in general, even for the likes of Rashid.. Yes, he hates it when lots of innocents die, but this seems more personal. It is possible that Thomas could be eliminated from the list because I'd think Justine and baby would be with Harry if he was dead, unless both died including baby.. Eb very possible as we have talked about, but maybe Jim wasn't pulling our leg months ago, he was writing Murphy's funeral...
As Mab explained it is her duty. Harry is taking part in a winter festivity, he is actually helping fairy that way. Of course Mab wants to keep all the important things of christmass alive like the tree and santa and gift giving. Gift giving is an important ritual.
I'm with Maggie, when I was her age red was my favorite color too! ;D Hmmmm... There is a hint of humanity in Mab, and with her daughter being the Summer Lady now, looks like things will be a bit better as far as Summer/Winter relations may be a bit warmer.... But why is Mab even attempting to be nice to Harry by giving his daughter a gift?
Face it, a bike isn't that hard to put together, and usually a kid's bike is bought in one piece... SoApparently he got a flatpack or something like that. We in Holland just go to the bike shop around the corner and by an assembled one.
did Maggie and Harry come to stay with the Carpenters just for Christmas? At the last story, Harry was moving into Molly's old place... Notice she came when her father wasn't in the room? Do they know now, have either side resolved what has happened to her?This is Maggie's family as well and since small favor it is also Harry's family in a sense. It is quite understandable that Harry and Maggie celebrate christmass there wherever they are living at the moment.
Kringle, very very sweet, his gift to Harry.. Special, very special, why now?Not Kringle's fault. As mentioned in Skin Game the island was not an easy place to deliver for Kringle.
To bring comfort...Ramirez, Butters, Bill and Georgia, Elaine, ....
Since this takes place after Peace Talks apparently, maybe at least six months after... The depth of
Harry's grief says to me at any rate, one or more of three very important people in Harry's life is
no longer with us. The candidates are in order, Murphy, Eb, or Thomas... I doubt that he would
be in such morning for members of the White Council in general, even for the likes of Rashid.. Yes, he hates it when lots of innocents die, but this seems more personal. It is possible that Thomas could be eliminated from the list because I'd think Justine and baby would be with Harry if he was dead, unless both died including baby.. Eb very possible as we have talked about, but maybe Jim wasn't pulling our leg months ago, he was writing Murphy's funeral...
It is possible that Thomas could be eliminated from the list because I'd think Justine and baby would be with Harry if he was dead, unless both died including baby.Over Lara's dead body. Which says nothing about Thomas's fate.
Kringle, very very sweet, his gift to Harry.. Special, very special, why now? To bring comfort...Just spitballing here, but how did he end up on Kringle's list?
Just spitballing here, but how did he end up on Kringle's list?Oh that one is simple. Uriel and Vadderung know each other.
It is possible that Thomas could be eliminated from the list because I'd think Justine and baby would be with Harry if he was dead, unless both died including baby.
I do not think Karen is dead at the moment. I expect them at least to have some happiness together before it is ripped away. Just to make it worse. But Murphy is going to suffer, just to make Harry suffer.
As Mab explained it is her duty. Harry is taking part in a winter festivity, he is actually helping fairy that way. Of course Mab wants to keep all the important things of christmass alive like the tree and santa and gift giving. Gift giving is an important ritual.
And Harry is Mab's consort. How can she not give Harry a present at christmass? and how can she miserly about it? She is the liege, she has to give, this is the occasion.
Apparently he got a flatpack or something like that. We in Holland just go to the bike shop around the corner and by an assembled one.
This is Maggie's family as well and since small favor it is also Harry's family in a sense. It is quite understandable that Harry and Maggie celebrate christmass there wherever they are living at the moment.
Not Kringle's fault. As mentioned in Skin Game the island was not an easy place to deliver for Kringle.
And really Kringle just likes Harry. Of course he gives him a gift at the only time he can do so without problems. Harry just has to be nice of course. Being naughty will really bring extra problems from now on....
Ramirez, Butters, Bill and Georgia, Elaine, ....
I do not think Karen is dead at the moment. I expect them at least to have some happiness together before it is ripped away. Just to make it worse. But Murphy is going to suffer, just to make Harry suffer.
But I do not think he is in mourning for a special person necessarily. I think there were just a lot of casualties. We probably do not know most of them.
Eb I can sort of see, but with Murphy I don't think it'd be very relistic for Harry to be able to hide her name from his own thoughts. Mind, if she is dead Jim wouldn't publish this story with her name as one of the casualties as it's a major spoiler rather than the minor spoilers there are... but it seems too unrealistic to fly, to me.
This story takes place six months after Peace Talks. Unless a Whampire fetus requires a shorter gestation or Justine was into her fourth month when Thomas told Harry the news at the start of PT, it's too early for the baby to have been born yet.Nope, the shock over Thomas, premature birth... Baby is viable at seven months or so..
Oh that one is simple. Uriel and Vadderung know each other.Sure and every year Santa distributes presents to 40 year old children. ;)
They will have it for maybe the first twelve chapters of the book or so... Then hard headed MurphyWith the usual speed of action 12 chapters is just half a day or so, insufficient time to show Harry's happiness.
I predict will not heed warnings from Harry or anyone else that she isn't physically ready for this fight... Or she is but falls protecting Harry.. She dies and Harry suffers, he is grieving, seriously grieving.. If they were together, Christmas Eve would be at his place or hers, they'd be fighting about how best to put the bike together with Murphy taking over with a wise ass comment...
Probably because Harry was not celebrating. No obligation to bring gifts if you are not celebrating. And actually a gift for Maggie is even a better gift for Harry anyway.
She hasn't before now.... Plus she is giving the gift to Maggie, not Harry, no strings attached..
It is the same in America, plus if it is a first bike, it won't be very complicated, most likely one speed, brakes, and training wheels..Not according to Kringle:
Yes, but not if Harry was with Murphy now... At the very least, as I said, she'd be beside him telling
how to put the bike together, then taking over and being a bit smug, in a good way because Harry
feels foolish because he failed.
Not true, if Kringle wanted to give Harry a gift, he could have gotten on the island... Nothing is impossible for Kringle on Christmas.
He waved his other hand negligently. “Consider it a belated holiday gift, free of obligation. That island is a tough delivery.”
“Prove it,” I said. “Say ‘ho, ho, ho.’”
“Ho, ho, ho,” he replied genially.
Harry would grieve over Butters etc, but not to this extent... This is on par with his grief [some guilt] when he felt Elaine was dead the first time, and his grief over Susan..No but there was a big number. And funerals plural. I do not think Harry knew most or not even any of the casualties personally that well. The scale of the action is increasing and I expect a lot of casualties.
Oh yes it is realistic, that kind of pain you try to avoid, that is part of the grieving process it is called
denial. If you've ever lost someone that close you avoid a lot of things, even photos of your loved one, just too painful to view.. Jim didn't publish name, true... However plenty of hints, lots of death, pain, and blood in Peace Talks, and someone very close to Harry dies...Nope, the shock over Thomas, premature birth... Baby is viable at seven months or so..
With the usual speed of action 12 chapters is just half a day or so, insufficient time to show Harry's happiness.
And Karen is probably not going to be involved in Maggies upbringing anyway, I did not expect her to be there, this is a father daughter thing and she would only make things more complicated. She can not replace the real mother and Maggie already has another set of adoptive parents.
Karen has no place in this celebration.
Probably because Harry was not celebrating. No obligation to bring gifts if you are not celebrating. And actually a gift for Maggie is even a better gift for Harry anyway.A gift that brings joy to the child is a greater gift to the parent than anything that comes in a box... Mab did give a gift to Harry..
Not according to Kringle:
No but there was a big number. And funerals plural. I do not think Harry knew most or not even any of the casualties personally that well. The scale of the action is increasing and I expect a lot of casualties.
Mark that Molly's army is reduced to such an extend that she has to go on a recruitment drive and we do not know when the peace talks started. Not too long before christmass otherwise Molly would have already replaced her casualties.
Harry's guilt is very fresh.
No? Really? If Murphy and Harry get as close as you think they are, yes, emphatically, YES, she'd belong there... She is family or future family.. Why would twelve chapters or even one chapter not be enough to show Harry's happiness with Murphy if they had become a couple? If they are truly happy together on well written line is all that is needed, even one word is enough... Happiness in love isn't about quantity, it is about quality....It is not about Harry, it is about Maggie. Sure a parent wants to introduce a new partner and is sometimes so lovesick that it is forced through the childs throat but you do not make the child happy that way. You just lay an extra burden on Maggie and she has enough problems.
Remember also that Murphy has a big, Irish, Catholic family of her own. And she's living in the family matriarch's old house.Jim does so like to torture her.
Dollars to donuts that Murphy is obligated to attend her own family's shindig, and may even be hosting it.
- What's with Mother Winter not giving Harry a gift?
If it's an obligation, is she not obligated? Or is her gift to not show up and ruin his night?
Remember also that Murphy has a big, Irish, Catholic family of her own. And she's living in the family matriarch's old house.Also, you know, Midnight Mass.
Dollars to donuts that Murphy is obligated to attend her own family's shindig, and may even be hosting it.
I’ve fallen apart before. I’ve let the madness have me.
But I was a father now.
I no longer had that luxury. Thank God.
I didn't realize there is a thread here (I've posted in a thread with the same opening in the DF books section)
Someone please could remind me how old would Maggie be at the Christmas' Eve story?
I loved this story even when I am now really worried about PT. Thanks Jim!
I keep seeing this tossed around, so I'm gonna put this out there:Just out of curiosity, just what would you call it?
Molly's gift is not weregild.
Weregild is something you give to an enemy as recompense or restitution for killing one of their people -- in the original old-world laws, it was meant to make up for the loss of income and livelihood from the person's death.
Weregild would be, "I am responsible for the death of this person. Here is money that approximates what they were worth to you. Now we're even and you don't have to come for revenge against me."
Weregild is not healthcare or funeral costs.
Also, we don't know how long it's been since the events so much of the immediate furor may have died down.We can get close, between mid June and mid September of 2014. The events of Cold Case take place before the release of Frozen which was 13th of Nov, 2013. And the events of Christmas Eve after the release.(Thank you to a beta reader named serack on Reddit for this timeline) Skin Game takes place in late February and the events of Peace Talks are said to take place 5 months or so later. And at the beginning Skin Game Harry says he has been on the Island a year. Accounting for slop I think that date is good. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
Ok, I will spoil the story, so don't read this if you haven't read it.:)
Murphy is alive. Why I know that? Because in the story there is no mention of Mister. And a Christmas story with a kid, a dog and Santa Claus would have welcome a cat. But Mister is not there. So where is he? I see two options. He is dead or he is with Murphy at her home. I refuse to consider option 1, so Murphy is alive, taking care of Mister.
I keep seeing this tossed around, so I'm gonna put this out there:Absolutely correct though I might add weregeld is not something the other party has to accept, it is a peace offering and as such can be refused.
Molly's gift is not weregild.
Weregild is something you give to an enemy as recompense or restitution for killing one of their people -- in the original old-world laws, it was meant to make up for the loss of income and livelihood from the person's death.
Weregild would be, "I am responsible for the death of this person. Here is money that approximates what they were worth to you. Now we're even and you don't have to come for revenge against me."
Weregild is not healthcare or funeral costs.
Also, we don't know how long it's been since the events so much of the immediate furor may have died down. Plus, if Harry went all "Bianca's Mansion" on a highrise, that would be an incredible body count that doesn't lead to any exceptional police response. I mean, hell, we didn't do martial law after 9/11, no need to assume even a major attack would lead to one here.
Just out of curiosity, just what would you call it?A Christmas present.
We can get close, between mid June and mid September of 2014. The events of Cold Case take place before the release of Frozen which was 13th of Nov, 2013. And the events of Christmas Eve after the release.(Thank you to a beta reader named serack on Reddit for this timeline) Skin Game takes place in late February and the events of Peace Talks are said to take place 5 months or so later. And at the beginning Skin Game Harry says he has been on the Island a year. Accounting for slop I think that date is good. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong. :)
I know nothing about War rules but the impression I got is not that Harry has to pay anything. Only that the idea of the victims' families having to pay for their recovery or funerals was another thing adding stress and guilt to Harry. Molly helped him at least by easing that pain.It was probably something Molly wanted to do but could not given the restrictions of her job but she found a way around it. Quite smart actually.
Yes, I understand that, but it is not the idea I've got from reading the story.It is from Harry’s point of view and Molly can never admit such a thing but gifts often reflect the giver in some way. But it is Christmas so she can say she did so to please Harry.
And you risked an awful lot getting in everyone’s face after the battle. It helped a whole lot of people.”Molly was just letting Harry know that the debt was paid. YMMV. I like my version right or wrong. Out of respect for those who object to weregild I'll call the payments a liability insurance payout.
@Dina
I wondered if it was the same person. Amusing tidbit. If serack is correct it means Sarissa showed Mab the film after she became the Summer Lady.
What I took away from this story is that Murphy dies during Peace Talks. Of course, she could just be asleep in another room or at her house, but I think she dies.
Probably others, too. Eb is likely. Possibly Elaine. I'd hate to see Ramirez die, but its possible. Don't think Thomas will die... I think he'll be around to the end.
Maybe Sanya dies?
I don't think Butters will die. He just got the sword.
Who knows...
Yes, Harry weeping says he is grieving and it is more than PTSD from a lot of people getting slaughtered. Another reason to wonder where in the hell Murphy is at if she isn't dead or in a coma somewhere, she'd at least make an appearance.One can not expect Jim to give away a spoiler of that magnitude. We will read about Harry and Karen in the next book.
Ok, I will spoil the story, so don't read this if you haven't read it.
Murphy is alive. Why I know that? Because in the story there is no mention of Mister. And a Christmas story with a kid, a dog and Santa Claus would have welcome a cat. But Mister is not there. So where is he? I see two options. He is dead or he is with Murphy at her home. I refuse to consider option 1, so Murphy is alive, taking care of Mister.
One can not expect Jim to give away a spoiler of that magnitude. We will read about Harry and Karen in the next book.Of course not, but he did give a HUGE hint for anyone willing to read it... It isn't just PTSD or his usual guilt when a lot of people die and he puts the blame all on himself. This is real grieving and he is trying to keep it together because he is a father now.. No way around it, Harry lost family, there is a short list of those who qualify. Michael would be one, but thankfully he survived.. I've listed three of the others closest to him, and Murphy is on that list... That is a fact plain and simple... Thomas would be huge, just as he was about to become a father... Eb would be huge, but not unexpected, but still bring pain.. Butters would hurt but he isn't family.. Elaine would hurt but
Possible, but Mister could also be curled up at the apartment with a nice dead mouse or something. Cats as a rule do not hang out Christmas Eve or Morning to find out what is in their sock.. Fact ofMab also honoured Mac that way in cold days. It is a hint that they are more important than Harry realises.
the matter is he could also have died in the mess of Peace Talks.. Note Mab giving Mouse a deep
bow, [for her] and acknowledged him as "Guardian," I bet he is plays an important role in Peace Talks.. Yeah, Lea did also in Changes, but for Mab to do it is special I think.
She presented it with a flourish and a little bow. “It’s a little symbolic, but I think you’ll like it.”Then
“Everyone who got hurt. It’s all paid for.”It's a little vague bit I don't see a first person possessive in there anywhere. I can viz Mab in black looking over Molly's shoulders while Molly explains why some Accord members should cough up some liability payouts for starting a very public fight during the Peace talks. However this plays to my bias. And your position is as likely as mine.
I just read it again. Harry told Michael about the Christmas morning coffee and Michael got a message. Upstairs has a direct line to Kringle. Michael got a message not to spoil things and he left.Yep, I think so.
For just a second, I smelled my dad’s old aftershave. For just a second, I heard him laughing, laughing so hard that tears had to have been rolling from his eyes. For just a second, I felt a hand, his hand, on my shoulder.None of it in past tense. Then
I left the last sip in the bottom of the cup, kept my eyes closed, and said, “I love you, dad.”Damn near makes me cry.
” ‘Tis better to have loved and lost, Than never to have loved at all”Which I hadn't realized was about a friend of Tennyson's. Quite relevant to this discussion, here's a link with background (https://knowledgenuts.com/2014/02/05/tennyson-wrote-tis-better-to-have-loved-and-lost-about-a-man/). Be sure to read the last paragraph.
@ArjanNot exactly. She knows Harry so she knows what Harry likes most. She knows about Harry’s guilt trips and wanted to help him with it and deep beneath the mantle the original Molly is still there and she feels that she must help. The money is not a really significant amount for her (or it is) but it is very important for the victims. It is something Harry or Michael would have done in her position and these are her examples. So if working around the mantle is necessary Christmas is it.
So if I understand this correctly you are saying that Molly paid all those medical expenses and funerals because she felt sorry for Harry. Okay.
I'm saying as the self appointed protector of Chicago, Harry told someone that they were murdering bastards who needed to do the right thing. I doubt that who he told that to was Mab, since he was still existing on Christmas Eve. Molly to Harry.ThenIt's a little vague bit I don't see a first person possessive in there anywhere. I can viz Mab in black looking over Molly's shoulders while Molly explains why some Accord members should cough up some liability payouts for starting a very public fight during the Peace talks. However this plays to my bias. And your position is as likely as mine.Yep, I think so.None of it in past tense. ThenDamn near makes me cry.
Since guessing who lives or dies is playing to JB's dork side, I'm gonna pass. If Murphy dies I will take solace from Tennyson's poem "In Memoriam A.H.H.". Which I hadn't realized was about a friend of Tennyson's. Quite relevant to this discussion, here's a link with background (https://knowledgenuts.com/2014/02/05/tennyson-wrote-tis-better-to-have-loved-and-lost-about-a-man/). Be sure to read the last paragraph.
JB appears to be doing some cute things with Christmas mythology. Molly,Mab and Kringle could be seen as the three wise persons bearing gifts for a child, or more properly, two different children. Mab is also a trope, someone who wants to do the right thing but doesn't really know how. Much as Scrooge is in a Christmas Carol.
Happy rest of the holidays to you all.
Yes, Harry weeping says he is grieving and it is more than PTSD from a lot of people getting slaughtered. Another reason to wonder where in the hell Murphy is at if she isn't dead or in a coma somewhere,Midnight Mass, like a Catholic often does on Christmas Eve?
Midnight Mass, like a Catholic often does on Christmas Eve?
That's what I get for not fully cropping the quote. Murphy being at Midnight Mass only answers the question of where she is, if it turns out you didn't get your Christmas wish after all.
Lutheran here not catholic but a lot of are traditions are close to th same..Christmas night in a large church might have 3 or 4 services. Growing up as kids my parents would take us kids to the 5 pm service because it just was a lot easier when you have little kids to go at that time because you want them fed and in bed by 9 pm. later on when they are older the midnight service might be fun too do . there also also could be a Christmas morning service . if Michael or charity wants father Anthony Forthill to do the mas he you might have choose an earlier service.
Courtesy of priscellie. If you trust her on this point. (https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/a9cl0j/new_short_story_christmas_eve/ecipv2k/?context=3)
She was not clear, and she didn´t mention Mister, other people did.It is entirely made up. Maggie would never do so. Besides cats don't eat just everything you feed them and I have a very good idea about how our cats would react if you try to feed them broccoli.it's that a Zoo Day quote? I have not read that. I don't know when Zoo takes place either.(click to show/hide)
She was not clear, and she didn´t mention Mister, other people did.it's that a Zoo Day quote? I have not read that. I don't know when Zoo takes place either.(click to show/hide)
Face it, a bike isn't that hard to put together, and usually a kid's bike is bought in one piece...
Mark that Molly's army is reduced to such an extend that she has to go on a recruitment drive and we do not know when the peace talks started. Not too long before christmass otherwise Molly would have already replaced her casualties.
Also, did anyone else find it odd that the number for the funeral and medical expenses was a prime number (if you left the decimal places off)? That seems like an odd line to throw in there for no reason.
Tell that to my brother-in-law, who has specific bike tools because he is way into bikes, who spent a good deal of time over at my house on Christmas Eve putting together a bike for my 7 year old nephew.
I'm just impressed that Harry knows prime numbers up to what must be in the millions, if not billions.
She was not clear, and she didn´t mention Mister, other people did.it's that a Zoo Day quote? I have not read that. I don't know when Zoo takes place either.(click to show/hide)
Not overly difficult, numbers greater than one that can only be divided by themselves.Yes, I am aware of what a prime number is. I did, in fact, pass elementary school math. ::)
Yes, I am aware of what a prime number is. I did, in fact, pass elementary school math. ::)
The average person doesn't know them up to the billions, though, which is what the medical bill for thousands of people and funerals for hundreds more likely adds up to.
I did find it odd that Murphy wasn't there. However, I will say, I found it odd that Mister wasn't there. Mister would be with Murphy. The fact that Mister wasn't around seems to suggest he is with Murphy.
I also had the thought to conform with my ideas that Murphy=Mab, that Murphy was actually there with Harry on Christmas just in another guise.
This book is only set a couple of months after the end of the previous one [Skin Game], so, you know, Murphy’s still undergoing surgeries and so on to get fixed because when you get hurt like that, it takes a long time to get better. When you’re not some kind of superhuman, “I work for Queen Mab”, living punching bag…
I'm spending way to much time on Harry related things, which to be fair I have in excess. For all those Murphy killers out there, a WOJ.
Ah, but since when did something like a bum knee stop Murphy when Harry and mankind is on the line? If things get bad enough, and it looks like they will, someone will have to lock her up in a cell, tie her down and throw away the keys... Because you know how bull headed she can be, and if she thinks she can make a difference no matter how small or illogical her thought process, she will beSince literally every time Murphy's been that injured.
there. If she is, and if she gets killed in the process, the impact will be very hard on Harry.
I didn't realize there is a thread here (I've posted in a thread with the same opening in the DF books section)MY guess would be about 12. Though, it is on very loose math.
Someone please could remind me how old would Maggie be at the Christmas' Eve story?
I loved this story even when I am now really worried about PT. Thanks Jim!
Ok, I will spoil the story, so don't read this if you haven't read it.Good catch, Dina!
Murphy is alive. Why I know that? Because in the story there is no mention of Mister. And a Christmas story with a kid, a dog and Santa Claus would have welcome a cat. But Mister is not there. So where is he? I see two options. He is dead or he is with Murphy at her home. I refuse to consider option 1, so Murphy is alive, taking care of Mister.
Good catch, Dina!
She has never been shown to be as "bull headed" as you're assuming she must be.No? Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?
Then again, Harry is spending Christmas at Michael's place with his family.. Not unusual to visit withThat is quite unfair. Harry did not give advice for obvious reasons and Karen is no dummy, she had at least some idea why Harry was keeping secrets and she followed his example. She had to sort it out in her own.
your dog, but not your cat.. Harry never took Mister with him visiting before. Even when he stayed at Michael's house for days or weeks when wounded, Mister stayed at home. So why would he bring him for a holiday stay? I don't think much can be read any significance in Mister's absence as confirming or not Murphy's survival in Peace Talks.No? Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?
No? Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?We've been over this a hundred times, and that had nothing to do with her being "bull headed" or not listening to reason.
We've been over this a hundred times, and that had nothing to do with her being "bull headed" or not listening to reason.
That is quite unfair. Harry did not give advice for obvious reasons and Karen is no dummy, she had at least some idea why Harry was keeping secrets and she followed his example. She had to sort it out in her ownBut she didn't, she went against her own advice... Apples and oranges as far as the keeping secrets example goes.. Harry's main excuse and it has proved to be a poor one is he wants to spare his friends... Not exactly clear why Murphy thought hiding the Sword would spare anyone.. She proclaimed she wasn't a Knight beyond that one night, had no interest in being a Knight, claimed
Ah, but since when did something like a bum knee stop Murphy when Harry and mankind is on the line? If things get bad enough, and it looks like they will, someone will have to lock her up in a cell, tie her down and throw away the keys... Because you know how bull headed she can be, and if she thinks she can make a difference no matter how small or illogical her thought process, she will beMurphy isn't Superwoman and any number of things are hard on Harry. The Timeline is fairly explicit. She is injured(ACL) in February and Peace Talks happens in June or shortly thereafter. Four months. There is bullheaded and there is stupid. But of course she could strap her P90 to her cast and totter to the scene of the action in her wheelchair. ;)
there. If she is, and if she gets killed in the process, the impact will be very hard on Harry.
No? But saying the Sword shouldn't be used, then hiding it and using for the reasons she said itSkin game was different. The secrecy was because Anduriel listened to everything. Karen understood when Harry told her that it was not to protect her but himself and she followed Harry's unspoken advise. References to earlier cases where Harry kept secrets to protect other people are not to the point.
shouldn't be used sort of qualifies.... Doing because she loves Harry sort of makes it okay, but shows bad judgement... So what makes you think that this time around with everything on the
line like is sounds like it's going to, she is just going to say home and nurse her wounds? Especially if Harry is in grave danger, which sounds like he is going to be, if she can, she will be at his side...
But for the record, I said that she was one of three possible to die that would affect Harry in terms of
grief.. Michael would be a forth, but we know from the story he didn't die.. The only reason he hasn't gone completely off the rails like he did after Susan was half turned and left, is little Maggie. Yes, the thousands hurt and dead that he feels personally responsible for in typical Harry fashion accounts for some of it, but the break down of weeping says someone close died... Very close, that puts Murphy on the list, unless you no longer think she is close to Harry? Eb is on that list, Thomas is on that list, that is the first tier, the vision/flashback of blood on asphalt relates to one of these loved ones in my opinion verses a general slaughter.. Though is sounds like there was a lot of that. But she didn't, she went against her own advice... Apples and oranges as far as the keeping secrets example goes.. Harry's main excuse and it has proved to be a poor one is he wants to spare his friends... Not exactly clear why Murphy thought hiding the Sword would spare anyone.. She proclaimed she wasn't a Knight beyond that one night, had no interest in being a Knight, claimed
bringing it on that mission would put it in danger... Hiding it didn't change any of those facts... Kind
of like a dieter sneaking food or a alcoholic drinking secretly, it doesn't change the fact that food was eaten or there had been a fall from the wagon.....
The excuse for bringing the Sword has been Murphy's emotional feelings for Harry... So I ask you this, do you really think she'll stay home if she believes she can help Harry even if she isn't a hundred percent? But set that aside, say she is a hundred percent, if she goes out to face the danger, she could be killed, the same goes for Thomas or Eb... Any of those three would leave aShe brought the sword to have the option available which is not wrong. She either could find a situation where she could use it or could give it to someone if the occasion demanded it. The sword had to be there she just did not know what to do with it.
hell of a hole in Harry's heart..
She brought the sword to have the option available which is not wrong. She either could find a situation where she could use it or could give it to someone if the occasion demanded it. The sword had to be there she just did not know what to do with it.
Murphy isn't Superwoman and any number of things are hard on Harry. The Timeline is fairly explicit. She is injured(ACL) in February and Peace Talks happens in June or shortly thereafter. Four months. There is bullheaded and there is stupid. But of course she could strap her P90 to her cast and totter to the scene of the action in her wheelchair. ;)
The sword had to be there. Her emotions colored how she used it but she had no real choice at that moment. We have discussed this endlessly but the alternative was a dead Harry or Waldo, she saved a life and the sword was fixable.
She was there because Harry asked her. Harry is not going to ask her for peace talks after what happened in Skin Game so the whole question is moot.That is jumping the gun because we don't know as of yet if Harry will ask her unless you've seen
You have the Shedd Aquarium, the Field Museum, Soldier Field, the Alder Planetarium, Burnham harbor, Lakeshore Center, South Beach and miscellaneous other family venues that might be packed on a sunny day in June. It strikes me as a tens of thousands killed and injured place.
Skin game was different. The secrecy was because Anduriel listened to everything. Karen understood when Harry told her that it was not to protect her but himself and she followed Harry's unspoken advise. References to earlier cases where Harry kept secrets to protect other people are not to the point.
No? Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?
Yup, that is true, and Harry will feel responsible and mourn them, but in my opinion his pain is deeper..Well it isn't out of the question. But the idea that his allies might die is one thing, but if his true purpose is to defend those who can't defend themselves, the the deaths of thousands is going to hit hard. Think about the narrative in Christmas Eve. Harry has his daughter and the core of his "family" with him. Which would force him to confront the reality all those families who no longer do.
I'm pretty sure the reason why Molly paid was pretty clear in the story- it was her Christmas Gift to Harry, since as his Boss and a Queen of Winter she was obligated to partake in the celebration.Yes but you see that is the obvious reason stated by beings who can not lie. It is the only reason that fits in the story so it must be false! ;D
Then again, Harry is spending Christmas at Michael's place with his family.. Not unusual to visit with
your dog, but not your cat.. Harry never took Mister with him visiting before. Even when he stayed at Michael's house for days or weeks when wounded, Mister stayed at home. So why would he bring him for a holiday stay? I don't think much can be read any significance in Mister's absence as confirming or not Murphy's survival in Peace Talks.No? Hmmmm, what about getting the snot kicked out of her by Nic and a Holy Sword broken because she thought she knew what best to do and wouldn't listen to reason?
Hm, I think there might have been some line that Harry was staying at Molly's new place in Peace Talks. Since this takes place a little bit later, he might still be living there, unless things get so crazy he has to move again. Plus, the Carpenters do view him as family, so it makes sense to me. :)
As for Murphy, I bet she's spending Christmas with her own family. For all we know, Harry got to spend some time with her beforehand.
Skin game was different. The secrecy was because Anduriel listened to everything. Karen understood when Harry told her that it was not to protect her but himself and she followed Harry's unspoken advise. References to earlier cases where Harry kept secrets to protect other people are not to the point.
That is why Murphy had to solve everything on her own and that is why comments about her not taking advise are unfair. She had taken Harry's advise.She brought the sword to have the option available which is not wrong. She either could find a situation where she could use it or could give it to someone if the occasion demanded it. The sword had to be there she just did not know what to do with it.
The sword had to be there. Her emotions colored how she used it but she had no real choice at that moment. We have discussed this endlessly but the alternative was a dead Harry or Waldo, she saved a life and the sword was fixable.
She was there because Harry asked her. Harry is not going to ask her for peace talks after what happened in Skin Game so the whole question is moot.
I'm pretty sure the reason why Molly paid was pretty clear in the story- it was her Christmas Gift to Harry, since as his Boss and a Queen of Winter she was obligated to partake in the celebration.So let me get this straight, Winter gave the wounded and killed a billion or so so Molly could give Harry that card. OK.
Why do you say Harry is visiting? I thought he has moved with the Carpenters.Charity loves Harry. But she doesn't love Harry that much. And she already has his a 200 pound "Mouse". :)
So let me get this straight, Winter gave the wounded and killed a billion or so so Molly could give Harry that card. OK.Probably just Molly. She has loads of money now.
Charity loves Harry. But she doesn't love Harry that much. And she already has his a 200 pound "Mouse". :)
So let me get this straight, Winter gave the wounded and killed a billion or so so Molly could give Harry that card. OK.
Yeah, considering the timeline it is likely that we won't see Karrin Murphy in book 16 at all. At most it will be a token appearance like in book 7. She is likely to be still recuperating in the hospital or at home. When PT went down Harry won't tell her at all, not while Murphy is injured. Doing so is the same as Harry killing Murphy with his own hands. Harry is not that stupid.It is just Murphy’s ex. Of course because he was also Karen’s brother in law her sister is in tears and the whole family has to be there. Karen brings Harry along so it is socially very awkward.
BTW: about the "Murphy's funeral" thing. Does JB mentioned Murphy's funeral or Karrin's Funeral?
If it is Murphy's funeral, it is entirely possible it is the deaths of members of the Murphy clan. Thousands died in PT and since a lot of the Murphies serve as law enforcements. Well, it is entirely possible that some of them had fallen. This could explain why Karrin is not there during Christmas . She is with her own clan.
No, The Winter Lady gave the wounded and killed a Billion as a Gift to Her Knight. The card is just a piece of paper she showed him representing the actual gift.Didn't I just post exactly that? :o
Didn't I just post exactly that? :o
That is what you call a Christmas Gift. It must have put a dent in her account with 8 zeros in it. :) Mab will be cross if she gets overdrawn.
Why do you say Harry is visiting? I thought he has moved with the Carpenters.
I am ok about Murphy but the idea I've got is that Harry was living with the Carpenters, probably as an aftermath of whatever happened in PT. Anyway, I have no reason to believe Mister is living with Harry again, he was with Murphy last time I knew (there is a quote about Maggie feeding Mister broccoli, but they told me it was an invention).
I think she did it because it was the only thing she could do... She cannot change what happened, all she could do was bring what relief [pay the bills] as was in her power. If her aim was to mitigate Harry's natural tendency towards feeling guilt and responsibility for it all, it's success was very limited.I think it's more the Cold Case sense of gift giving; she paid the bills because she felt it was a good and necessary gesture, not to assuage Harry's guilt. In other words, she framed it as an obligation and thereby got away with it.
I think she did it because it was the only thing she could do... She cannot change what happened, all she could do was bring what relief [pay the bills] as was in her power. If her aim was to mitigate Harry's natural tendency towards feeling guilt and responsibility for it all, it's success was very limited.Mab wants to change Harry, Molly does not.
Mab wants to change Harry, Molly does not.
But helping Harry to keep himself together? Of course. It is good to feel guilt and responsibility when it is proper to do so but it should not make it impossible to meet your current responsibilities.
I don't think Molly's planning to live at the house she's buying in her parents' neighborhood. The way she framed it was as a way to have her own faerie goons keep an eye on the house and protect them without them knowing about it.
I think it's more the Cold Case sense of gift giving; she paid the bills because she felt it was a good and necessary gesture, not to assuage Harry's guilt. In other words, she framed it as an obligation and thereby got away with it.
Yeah, but at the same time she said all the death etc wasn't his doing, and that his words in the aftermath saved a lot of people... That isn't in the Cold Case sense of gift giving..Oh sure, when she was gift-giving anyway she tried to do some psychological damage control on Harry, and even if it wasn't brilliant for that any positive was nice.
Charity loves Harry. But she doesn't love Harry that much. And she already has his a 200 pound "Mouse". :)Mouse and Maggie lived with the Carpenters for months, not a problem, they are used to that. Having Harry for some weeks (or months) until he finds a place to live doesn't sound like too much of a stretch. It's hospitality.
I see nothing in CE that makes me believe they were visiting. In fact, I think Harry would have loved to have a Christmas alone with Maggie if he could. I don't think he could because I don't think he has a place to live. So my take is that PT left Harry poor and homeless again (if he still had the diamonds he would have paid for as many funerals/recoveries expenditures as he could, no need to wait for Christmas)
I'm spending way to much time on Harry related things, which to be fair I have in excess. For all those Murphy killers out there, a WOJ.
I'd say that was his choice to do that because as you say, he is into bikes. As parents we bought several bikes over the years for our boys ranging from basic with training wheels to more complicated BMX and multiple speed bikes, from places like Wal Mart to the best bike shops in town, as they grew older, we never had to assemble anything.. If it is required, a bike shop will do it for you for a small fee or as part of the service... I'd say that Harry is doing this by choice.
So my take is that PT left Harry poor and homeless again (if he still had the diamonds he would have paid for as many funerals/recoveries expenditures as he could, no need to wait for Christmas)
I'm not so sure of that, given his losses and the emotional trauma the best thing he could have done for himself and Maggie would to have as normal a Christmas as possible. This is a lesson I learned the hard way, believe me. Also since his father died Harry has never celebrated a real Christmas, wouldn't know where to begin.. The important thing for him would be to give Maggie the bestI disagree, but as I said, "I" understood that Harry was living with the Carpenters. I may be wrong, but the book does not prove me wrong.
Christmas he possibly could, so what better way then in the warmth and love of the Carpenter home, and we know Michael would welcome him and her with open arms, Charity as well if only for Maggie's sake.. So I really don't think we can read it as they are living there now unless of course another short story comes out and it's spring and Harry and Maggie are still there.
Bad Alias: That is what I said "as many as he could" and not "all". But Molly didn't say "the remaining injured" or something like that. So I don't think Harry had paid anything so far. I see it as "he spent the money before". I don't know if buying a home, paying a rescue, or whatever.
I disagree, but as I said, "I" understood that Harry was living with the Carpenters. I may be wrong, but the book does not prove me wrong.
Bad Alias: That is what I said "as many as he could" and not "all". But Molly didn't say "the remaining injured" or something like that. So I don't think Harry had paid anything so far. I see it as "he spent the money before". I don't know if buying a home, paying a rescue, or whatever.
I don't think Harry could have liquidated all the diamonds that quickly. It's hard to go broke when you can't liquidate all your assets at once and your credit isn't good enough to get insanely large loans. Harry would only be able to get loans based on his Warden's salary because banks like to pretend income from self employment doesn't exist. The only way for Harry to go broke this quickly is to lose the diamonds.
Furthermore, Maggie is attending SMAGT. She is going to continue to attend St. Mark's. A whole YA book series is set to take place with her there. Harry is going to have to be able to pay for it.
The way that Harry’s going to set it up is, he’s going to keep Maggie all summer. During the school year, she’s going to go to a boarding school in town, St. Marks Academy for the Gifted and Talented; it’s sort of where the supernatural folks all send their kids. And my intention is, in the next few years I’m going to write kind of a young adult series about Maggie Dresden at the Academy. https://www.comicmix.com/2016/09/26/emily-s-whitten-dresden-files-jim-butcher-talks-peace-talks/ (https://www.comicmix.com/2016/09/26/emily-s-whitten-dresden-files-jim-butcher-talks-peace-talks/)It's a place where the kids are safe from supernatural threats, that their parents know about. Adults don't know about the entire class of supernatural entities introduced in Zoo Day.
I’ve fallen apart before. I’ve let the madness have me.Harry is going to keep at least enough money to fund Maggie's education because his priorities are different. That was kind of the whole point of Changes.
But I was a father now.
Yeah, he may feel guilty about it, but he has to put his child first so I don't see him shelling out tens a thousands of dollars for medical expenses for victims.The total for medical expenses would probably hundreds of millions of dollars.
It represented the costs of medical care for tens of thousands.If everybody with medical costs had a bill of $1,000 and there are only 2 "tens of thousands" (20,000) then that would be a minimum of 20 million dollars. I have a feeling that the average medical expenses are going to be much higher.
According to google, the average cost of a funeral is $7,181. If 2,000 people died, then the funeral costs would likely be over $14,362,000. And thousands, plural, died. Add another 7.181 mil for every additional thousand dead. The medical expenses would probably be much higher on average and many more were injured.Approximately ten months since Skin Game. A quarter box. And Dresden split with Murphy. So 1/8 unless you believe Harry skimped her.
I don't know how half a lock box of diamonds is worth if you want to liquidate them over 6 months or so, but it certainly isn't going to be retail. Probably wouldn't even be wholesale.
But in an event that kills thousands and injures tens of thousands, I'm guessing a lot of innocent bystanders that have nothing to do with the talks are going to die. One of them could be Murphy. Admittedly, it would be weird to knock off a main character like that.Murphy is a dead women walking. The WOJ suggests not Peace Talks. Given that Zoo Day and Cold case were the only new entries you were perhaps wise. Cold Case serves a purpose but Zoo Day was......odd.
Approximately ten months since Skin Game. A quarter box. And Dresden split with Murphy. So 1/8 unless you believe Harry skimped her.
The problem here isn't money.
The average annual boarding school tuition is $38,850. Of course, there are some schools with tuition as low as $10,000 and others as high as $60,000. Most boarding school tuition costs include room and board, but some don't.http://www.collegebound.net/content/article/how-much-does-boarding-school-cost-/18833/ (http://www.collegebound.net/content/article/how-much-does-boarding-school-cost-/18833/)
The total for medical expenses would probably hundreds of millions of dollars.If everybody with medical costs had a bill of $1,000 and there are only 2 "tens of thousands" (20,000) then that would be a minimum of 20 million dollars. I have a feeling that the average medical expenses are going to be much higher.
Hasn't Jim said somewhere that Mab and Winter are in charge of the security and safety at the peace talks? That would mean that Harry would also be responsible for keeping things smoothly and dealing with any problems arising. That could also be why Molly paid for all the expenses of the fallout. The people killed would not have been part of any agreements and therefore originally left out of any compensations. But Harry would see that very differently.
If the school is for supernatural people they could have a system to manage the money, no questions asked. So perhaps Harry put the biggest part of the diamonds as payment for Maggie's education.
I am just saying, I have not read Zoo Day or the first chapters of PT.
Hm, well I'm terrible at math, but I think it's safe to say all the diamonds are top notch, illegality not withstanding. But yeah, the supernatural folks would have something set up. Maybe Harry will go to Molly instead of Marcone, or he'll be able to find someone else?
Yeah, I can't remember that first chapter well either. I imagine the basic outline is the same.
By the way, am I the only person who isn't wild about the supernatural school idea? Feels a little too Harry Potter to me. I dunno this concept just came outta nowhere for this series.
By the way, am I the only person who isn't wild about the supernatural school idea? Feels a little too Harry Potter to me. I dunno this concept just came outta nowhere for this series.You are not :)
Ok, yeah point, but that's pretty noticeable. Thousands dead and tens of thousands dead is pretty attention-grabbing; this can't be swept under the rug.
@Dina: Oh, good. I'm just not really feeling this idea.
All the big battles to this point have been isolated. Not many people on the streets, weather events, and so on. And almost all when school has been in. June is high summer and schools are out.
I've been wondering about Michael and his link to Heaven. I wonder if some of his communication link to Heaven got upgraded after wielding Uriel's Grace. That may have been the reason why he knew some "spoilers" that likely was the actual gift given by Kringle to Harry.
I also wonder what impact this new power of Michael's will have on events. I think it will be something akin to divination, likely seeing some course of events that may need be forked Heaven's way.
I was being metaphoric.... Oh and it isn't just about carat weight, you can have a hundred carats of flawed crap not worth much at all... It is about clarity, color, and cutting... One 3 carat colorless/flawless well cut stone can be worth from $35,000.00 to $250,000.00 I just looked it up... So if Harry's half a shoe box was filled with those... Well, you do the math..
Yeah. The source I used had about 50 different combinations of size and quality with only one cut. Because, as others have mentioned, the diamonds flowed like water in a fountain and they were taken from a god of wealth, I think they were small and clear/white (to resemble flowing water) and probably of an extremely high quality and maybe even cut (because god of wealth). Additionally, I think Valmont would know garbage diamonds from valuable diamonds. I'm thinking Harry has somewhere in the tens of millions (wholesale market value) worth of diamonds and they weren't a bunch of 35K-250K diamonds.
Naw, I think it is much simpler than that, remember when we were kids we are told that "Santa knows who's been naughty and who's been nice..." Kringle has a direct line, he also knows our hearts and secret wishes, he doesn't need Michael to whisper anything to Heaven..
1. Whatever they got out was divided into five boxes on the Capenter's kitchen table. One each for everyone who got out. Grey turns his down and Harry gives it to Marcone as a weregild. Harry gives ?/half/? of his to Murphy. So 1/8 of the total after the wergild. Check my math. I failed arithmetic.I added the numbers for reference purposes.
2. I'll give you some links which explain the tax codes for gifts for education and medical bills. I'm stating this poorly so here's a link (https://www.schiffhardin.com/insights/publications/2018/faqs-on-the-use-of-the-gift-tax-medical-and-tuition-expense-exclusion).
3. I should tell you this is money from a criminal enterprise. Hitting the gift tax limit might be the least of their worries. It isn't reportable income. You can't bank it. Cash transactions over a certain figure are automatically reported to the IRS.
4. And your cost calculations assume selling the diamonds on the open market. Not gonna happen in the US. You'll need a fence, which will mean a significant discount from market.
5. You weren't suffering under the illusion that you could just drop 20 million in a saving account and call it good? Harry's covered by the White Council, it's one of their purposes. Valmont and Binder are criminals and know the ropes, Murphy is a cop and knows what not to do. Do the archangels have a bank?
6. The word is that Marcone is hosting. Ivy is attending. I assume that Harry and Ramirez are tasked by the White Council. And Molly is apparently in the mix somewhere.
Also remember that the vast majority of supernatural entities -- including groups like the vampire courts, the fae, and the White Council that have money and influence -- want to keep the masquerade up. And given what Jim's said, so does the government.
So on the one side, the supernatural creatures do what they can to keep things under wraps (remember that Harry once makes a White Court vampire back off just by threatening to expose himself. ... Bad choice of words), and when they do slip up, the government steps in and cleans it up (Susan's video of Murphy shooting the loup garou mysteriously disappears and then experts come out of the woodwork to discredit it).
Agreed, but that was an example of a three carat flawless colorless diamond that I found..
About the White Council, or Marcone or anyone (but mostly the White Council) having a cleanup crew for supernatural battles. I find it odd that many members of the White Council don't like Harry openly advertising himself as a wizard, but if I read this Christmas eve story correctly, it's possible the White Council didn't mind having a knock down brawl in the middle of one of the largest cities in North America. That's hardly a way to remain discrete.Because fights can only happen where you choose to let that happen, and the White Council can control who attacks them, when and where, right?
Hm, I know that ignoring uncomfortable things is something humans are good at and magic/monsters isn't the go-to answer for people, but if you saw say, the Incredible Hulk getting shot in a parking lot, that would cause more attention than the local gang bangers shooting each other.
What I'm trying to say is that sometimes something so big happens that people cannot ignore it or explain it away. And while all the supernatural community tries to keep things on the DL, no one can account for everything, stuff happens, and I think the Peace Talks is when stuff happens.
Lol, exactly.
LOL, Now I need a scene where Morgan has to use it.
@Bad Alias
I got that data from reddit.
Actually none of them would have problems if they were smart. Harry could walk the ways to some offshore banking facility and call it good. Wealthy people do it all the time. But it would take time and require a lot of legal expertise. And penniless detectives who start moving large dollar amounts paying medical bills are going to draw attention. While the IRS may not care where it came from the FBI might ask here it came from and use forfeiture laws to take it away.
none of the take from the bank was going on the books, Anna was going to give them a routing to have them fenced "a little at a time" which would have reduced the overall valuation, back after SG's first release there was a fairly exhaustive discussion on Harry's take. If I remember correctly it was generally concluded to be between 5-10 million. As far as Harry being able to use it, I'm sure some, like the Svartelves, would take it as currency with no problem, great for Harry's tools for his gadgets.
They ... had a reputation for rigid adherence ... to the law or at least to the letters it consisted of.Chapter 36, Ghost Story
Hm, I know that ignoring uncomfortable things is something humans are good at and magic/monsters isn't the go-to answer for people, but if you saw say, the Incredible Hulk getting shot in a parking lot, that would cause more attention than the local gang bangers shooting each other.If I told you I saw the Incredible Hulk getting shot in a parking lot, what would you and the authorities say? I agree that at a certain point, most people would believe. I'm just not sure what that point is, and I don't think we've seen it on page yet. I don't know enough specifics for it to be a good analogy, but on October 13, 1917, a bunch of people saw the sun dance in the sky at Fatima, Portugal. There were 30 to 40K people there. I'm not sure how many reported not seeing anything vs how many reported something miraculous. The first point in the wikipedia article section "Criticism" on the event basically says "we know a miracle didn't happen because we know miracles don't happen, it was probably something else."
What I'm trying to say is that sometimes something so big happens that people cannot ignore it or explain it away. And while all the supernatural community tries to keep things on the DL, no one can account for everything, stuff happens, and I think the Peace Talks is when stuff happens.
Maybe the White Council etc have a magic wand/light thingie like in Men in Black, vanilla humansSomething like that mind fog Harry ran into in, I want to say Summer Knight? The thing that he very explicitly said was black magic?
go mentally blank until repairs are made and the blood is cleaned up...
If I told you I saw the Incredible Hulk getting shot in a parking lot, what would you and the authorities say? I agree that at a certain point, most people would believe. I'm just not sure what that point is, and I don't think we've seen it on page yet. I don't know enough specifics for it to be a good analogy, but on October 13, 1917, a bunch of people saw the sun dance in the sky at Fatima, Portugal. There were 30 to 40K people there. I'm not sure how many reported not seeing anything vs how many reported something miraculous. The first point in the wikipedia article section "Criticism" on the event basically says "we know a miracle didn't happen because we know miracles don't happen, it was probably something else."
We don't even have to look at miraculous events for this. A great many people refuse to believe men have landed on the moon. Some believe the earth is flat. Many don't believe in the efficacy of vaccines. I'm not trying to argue for or against any of those positions. My point is that, whichever side you take on any of those issues, you probably believe the people on the other side are either blithering idiots or are willing to deny obvious facts when faced with them.
Something like that mind fog Harry ran into in, I want to say Summer Knight? The thing that he very explicitly said was black magic?
@Dina. Nope, never played, what's the paradox?Un, it's comp!icated. The main idea is that reality has an inertía, it tries to keep being normal, so mages shouldn't alter it. That way, instead of throwing a lightning bolt to someone, you make the lighting come from a bulb and then you say "how terrible shortcircuit". If a mage fails to do the pretension and it's seen doing unexplained magic, he or she receives paradox points. If parados is toó big, the mage suffers a backlash from reality (with in-game consequences)
It was fun. I believe the system has changed though, I played the old system in the old World of Darkness universe, with Vampire: The masquerade, Mage: TA, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Changeling: The dreaming and several more. including Hunter: The Reckoning, which my friends and I called "Human: The boring" :)
I agree, but the same argument says some people will believe it's magic. The masquerade made not completely fall but it will be weakened a lot (perhaps enough for paradox kicking, if you ever played the Mage: The ascension :)).
@Bad Alias. LOL, to be fair, it's probably the authorities who are shooting at Hulk, all things considered. I'm yeah those are good points, but I'm pretty sure the flat Earth and moon-landing hoax theorists are just not regarded well in general. The vaccine thing, well that can't be chalked up to too many people not knowing how modern medicine works. That Sun dancing thing sounds interesting, Imma have to check that out. :)
@Dina. Nope, never played, what's the paradox?
True and I think the burying your head in the sand metaphors really only work in political or social contexts. Harry talks about people doing this in regards to the supernatural, but really you can't bury your head in the sand against something that you don't believe exists.Isn't that exactly what burying your head in the sand means? Dicken speaks to it. Most famously in Scrooge's dialog with Marley.
You don’t believe in me,” observed the Ghost.
“I don’t,” said Scrooge.
“What evidence would you have of my reality beyond that of your own senses?”
“I don’t know,” said Scrooge.
“Why do you doubt your senses?”
“Because,” said Scrooge, “a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There’s more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are.”
I've always have room in my heart for the miracle of Fatima. It has been only a little more than a century ago and many people present there were alive in my time, including the elderly nun, Lucia. So it felt...near home. I had a book about the Fatima children when I was a child I cherished it.
(laugh at me if you want, go ahead)
Hm, I know there's a mention of people noticing things in Ghost Story, but I bet it gets reinforced in Skin Game too.
(laugh at me if you want, go ahead)
Where does Christmas Eve fall on the DF timeline? Before or after Skin Game?After both Skin Game and apparently Peace Talks.
I think that goes a long way to making my point. A bunch of people believe in supernatural things, but don't talk about it because they don't want to be teased, and I'm not just talking about religious beliefs. In 2017, only about 25% of Americans said they didn't believe in ghosts, according to one poll.
Where are the people who, when they encountered the supernatural they ran towards it because they wanted to understand it?Dead or enslaved, mostly. Or, if they're very, very, very lucky, the supernatural thing they ran toward recruited them and brought them into the masquerade.
Sure they'd get dismissed as out of hand nutters, but what if they offered proof? And not that bad lighting shaky cam, we can't see anything, let alone being in high quality stuff. Are ghost hunters not a thing in this verse and if so, they've never run into the genuine article?What proof? The ectoplasm that evaporates to literally nothing in seconds?
I just want a Bill Nye or Neil DeGrasse Tyson to break the masquerade with science. LOL, is that too much to ask?Well, kind of yes. Supernatural creatures have thousands of years of experience and knowledge on how to stay hidden.
(I didn't laugh and I was very polite; because you never know how a mentally unbalanced person might react if you tell them that you doubt the CIA has satellites that can look inside their head and that can secretly control them.)This is my favorite part of your story. It's very true. Those people can be scary. Also, why was he checking trail cameras at night? (Because he was crazy).
Where are the people who, when they encountered the supernatural they ran towards it because they wanted to understand it?
[1]I think maybe another reason that it's driving me nuts is because of how many times it's been reiterated that getting humanity involved is the equivalent of the nuclear option. I just want the narrative to put its money where it's mouth is.Numbered by me for reference purposes.
... [2]I think, anyway, that a lot of my back and forth on that stance is that this is set in the 21st century and we have cameras everywhere and our level of technology and weaponry is getting farther along. We're also practically attached to our phones, which have become almost like swiss army knives in terms of function.
...
[3]I'm probably in the minority here, but I think it wasn't a good idea writing wise to have magic short out tech if it the story was urban fantasy set in the 20/21st century. Though you can't always predict what/how things will advance in real time, I just think it could be easy to underestimate how some pieces of technology can become ubiquitous to a society.
Yeah, I don't know too much about diamonds. I'm not sure how you move them quietly, like, at all.
Ok, see, you guys made it better thanks. :)Happy to help.
Yes about Mouse and everybody's reaction to him. I still want to know exactly who ran over him.
Mouse sniffed and then let out a sneeze that might almost have been actual words: So there.So I'd say Mouse got his payback too. It's in the first half of Chapter 28 if you'd reread it. Glau also has a realization about Mouse that I forgot about. If you've got a searchable book, "Elmo's" should get you to the paragraph.
Huh. So did the vampires get powerful as well, or what? That sounds like an interesting game.
Neat. I know there's a Dresden Files game; I read a recap/review of it, but some of the mechanics seemed confusing.
Huh, that's interesting. I bet some people like one version over the other. Must be confusing for GM's?