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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Yuillegan on September 15, 2018, 05:47:52 AM
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Hi gang,
In further research and meanderings I was reading a little bit about the relationship between the Horned God and the Triple Goddess in Wicca/Celtic mythology.
The pentagram is interesting. In Wicca, the two horns represent balance and are two points of the star, and the other points represent the Triple Goddess. This fits nicely with the nature of magic (the combination of the natural elements and magic) and the druid origins of the white council (the OG Merlin being originally a druid as well as a wizard).
Now Jim has mostly slotted the Horned God into the role of the Erlking/Herne/Cern, however I took interest in the part about the Warrior (youth), the Father and the Sage.
Now Herne and Kringle could be considered Fathers. Warriors/Youths correlate nicely with the Knight (though I am not sure this was intentional by Jim) but where is the Sage? This would be something akin to the Mothers, something unmentioned so far with no hints. I can only think of TWG or Archangels, but it seems a bit of a stretch.
Any thoughts?
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How about the Gatekeeper as the sage?
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An odd choice considering the Queens scale up - lady<queen<mothers. So knight<fae king<sage (?) The gatekeeper is unlikely as powerful as the mothers - considering they outrank just about everything apart from archangels.
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An odd choice considering the Queens scale up - lady<queen<mothers. So knight<fae king<sage (?) The gatekeeper is unlikely as powerful as the mothers - considering they outrank just about everything apart from archangels.
I also believe Harry is weaker than the Ladies, and Mab vs Odin seems tilted against Odin (nevermind the Erlking vs Mab, which is even more lopsided). And the Gatekeeper is a very old Wizard.
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The thing is we know they are limited in what power they can express, So is Rashid AS Gatekeeper, we've never seen him open up with his ultimate power, a Spiritual Greencard!
It's technically, his job to decide what reality needs in it, he just gets pigeonholed as the 'I keep things out' guy.
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We're limited in what we know about the Gatekeeper. But JB has teased that he might have thrown down with Demonreach and by inference the last warden. Drag, thump.
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I also believe Harry is weaker than the Ladies, and Mab vs Odin seems tilted against Odin (nevermind the Erlking vs Mab, which is even more lopsided). And the Gatekeeper is a very old Wizard.
Very true but my point is that he doesn't likely outrank Odin in power, (who himself is several millennia old.
Sibelis, it has always seemed the Gatekeeper is more dangerous not because he has tons of magical might, but because he (like a true JB wizard) has knowledge and ability to affect enemies most vulnerable elements. Which is not to say he isn't a bad ass wizard, but if Harry or Eb is like a hammer, Rashid is like a scalpel.
We're limited in what we know about the Gatekeeper. But JB has teased that he might have thrown down with Demonreach and by inference the last warden. Drag, thump.
Sorry Morris, believe that one has been debunked by the man JB himself. He said what caused the limp was the last friggin ice age, which one could interpret as the island being physically limited (like being cut off from the ocean perhaps). Check out Serack's WOJ page under demonreach - pretty sure it has the direct quote.
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We're limited in what we know about the Gatekeeper. But JB has teased that he might have thrown down with Demonreach and by inference the last warden. Drag, thump.
The spirit's limp is from the glaciers hitting the island in the last ice age. It has some sort of strained history with Rashid, but Harry was wrong about connecting it to the limp.
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JB has said, I believe, that the Kings of Winter and Summer are not organized the way the females are. There is no Prince, King, Father dynamic in the fae courts. The Kings just rule their areas, loosely affiliated with their respective Queens.
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With all the pantheons fading away, and those remaining relevant having anchors in modern society, I'd say the most powerful male figure left (outside of religion) is Father Time.
If he exists, that is.
*And* there's an opposing duality with him (old man and new born) just like the rest. Not to mention the paternal title balancing with the Mothers' maternal one.
The most likely time we'd see him (if he existed) would be in the time travel book.
For staying anchored, he's got a major holiday that the entire world celebrates. If he's Janus, then he's also got a month named after him.
For identity, I'd personally prefer him to be the current identity for Janus. But Cronus/Saturn seems like a better bet. Maybe the mantle was passed to Janus from Cronus (although there's some stuff saying the association with Cronus and time might be misplaced).
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Course Father Time exists, he's been mentioned twice, Once by Mab when telling Harry Time Himself moves against him, and... He's the slowest terror Mankind will ever know. The slow bleating weight of eternity. Also, that Hwwbh as Death serves Father Time as his chief commander makes total sense.... when you realize the original oppenheimer quote 'I am become death' is actually translated "now I am world destroying time."
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Course Father Time exists, he's been mentioned twice, Once by Mab when telling Harry Time Himself moves against him, and... He's the slowest terror Mankind will ever know. The slow bleating weight of eternity. Also, that Hwwbh as Death serves Father Time as his chief commander makes total sense.... when you realize the original oppenheimer quote 'I am become death' is actually translated "now I am world destroying time."
Except the concept of this proposed theory is about beings of reality. LoST being a mirror of FT seems logical, but LoST being FT (with his own agents) doesn't work with the Knight/King hierarchy.
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Sorry Morris, believe that one has been debunked by the man JB himself. He said what caused the limp was the last friggin ice age, which one could interpret as the island being physically limited (like being cut off from the ocean perhaps). Check out Serack's WOJ page under demonreach - pretty sure it has the direct quote.
Well, yes. It appears you are correct. However it is more than a little disingenuous on JB's part.
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Except the concept of this proposed theory is about beings of reality. LoST being a mirror of FT seems logical, but LoST being FT (with his own agents) doesn't work with the Knight/King hierarchy.
You lost me there? LoST can't be king of things because here in reality the kings have no knights?
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I'd just fear that Time is too vast a concept by far to be a single person/character. He/It would operate, by my estimate of humanity, ABOVE the levels of Uriel and his ilk. Uriel CAN destroy galaxies. Time WILL wreck them all. Time made them, too.
So, the best he can be is an utterly isolated abstraction, lest the universe implode under him sneezing.
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You lost me there? LoST can't be king of things because here in reality the kings have no knights?
The OP is speculating about a male balance to the feminine Sidhe Court, using the Kings as equivalents to the Queens, the Knights as equivalents to the Ladies, and an unknown male individual/pair as equivalents to the Mothers.
LoST being the Mothers' equal seems like a downgrade for him, but aside from that, it doesn't really meet the purpose of the speculation.
I'd just fear that Time is too vast a concept by far to be a single person/character. He/It would operate, by my estimate of humanity, ABOVE the levels of Uriel and his ilk. Uriel CAN destroy galaxies. Time WILL wreck them all. Time made them, too.
So, the best he can be is an utterly isolated abstraction, lest the universe implode under him sneezing.
Time is relative to your location in the cosmos. Time moves at a pretty steady rate across Earth, but once you leave Earth and gravity changes, time does as well.
I'd argue that there could be a being on Earth that represents local time rather than cosmic time or time on, say, Saturn, just like the Mothers represent a local Mother Earth and not alien life or elements of another world.
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The OP is speculating about a male balance to the feminine Sidhe Court, using the Kings as equivalents to the Queens, the Knights as equivalents to the Ladies, and an unknown male individual/pair as equivalents to the Mothers.
Oh it's much deeper than that, properly, he'd be their combined equal. But as the hunter of shadows it can go a bit deeper. Can't peg down which creation mythos it was anymore but the idea of the eternal shadow being endlessly divided and then projecting those divisions into the light holds some merit when you consider time=oblivion=nonexistence. The factiod 'everything stops' when outsiders get in also, death only being a thing in a existence that surpasses wuji, one state into yin-yang. the one state accures when the hunter has recollected all the shadows specifically. So he's technically as powerful as everything in existence combined... op enough I think.
LoST being the Mothers' equal seems like a downgrade for him, but aside from that, it doesn't really meet the purpose of the speculation.
*boggles a moment at limiting any such speculation to a narrow purpose*
Anyway, the idea of a pair to balance them is where the error accures imo. Combine the 'matter anti-matter' woj with the fact Kali is a destroyer and the combined mask of The queens looks a lot like her.... That they are specifically straddling the balance and are separated in such opposition to keep said whole from manifesting in reality and it all starts to become much more palatable.
The balance is pretty easy, 5, it's 5 broken down throughout every pantheon or court we've seen, they just break down into smaller aspects of reality. So you have to take that into consideration on if it's a split of an existing archetype or another version holding aspects. The Kings tend to not deal with splitting imo, simply being opposite shadows of each other without having the same aspect.