Back in Cold Days we had a certain revevation that tied the plots in the earlier books into one cohesive thing, Did you have that in mind when you were writing those earlier books? Or did you tie those later on when you were writing Cold Days.
You are talking about Nemesis right. No, that was there from the get go, and has been showing up, on stage from Grave Peril. There is Nemesis characters showing up in Grave Peril doing things. And there are more of them happen along the way which you don't know about yet Which is why it is such a great threat, it can be completely invisible and transparent and you don't know it is there until later when you work it out and Ooo. My whole point in writing a lot of these books is I try to write it so that you can get a different sense of it later on after you go back and read it again and go Ooo.
And I try to do it in little ways and little things like with Mouse and you eventually work out what Mouse really is and you go back and all of a sudden the scene where he is ferociously attacking Harry Dresden Snoopy doll is a lot different because its the Snoopy doll that has the Loup Garou's blood on it from several books ago and that is what he is smelling and that is why he is assaulting it. He is instinctively good and awesome. There is a lot of stuff I don't bring out. I try not to shove things in everybodys face. Hopefully you get a different sense of it if you go back and read it again. I like rereading books. I like rereading a book and going now that I know the ending this line right here is a lot funnier than it was before. The writer must have been laughing his ass off when he wrote it and hopefully I can give that experience to readers too.
(Pheonix Comic con, 2014):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH1nwP9r6-U
At the ~49:50 minute mark.
knnn 32 points 1 year ago[3:45 PM] raidem: So Knnn most likely was aware of either my postings on the topic of the WOJL, or the video with the WOJ. She posted that 7/14/2016.
From Fool Moon (trapping the Loup-Garou):
I slapped the Snoopy down in the middle of the circle, then smeared the beast's blood over its eyes and mouth, over its ears and nose. "Thaumaturgy," I said.
From Blood Rites (baby Mouse was left with Murphy):
One of them, a plush Snoopy doll spotted with old, dark stains, lay on the floor. The puppy stood over it, tiny teeth sunk into one of the doll's ears. He shook his head, his own torn ear flapping, and dragged Snoopy in a little circle while letting out small, squeaky growls. The puppy looked up at me. His tail wagged furiously, and he savaged the doll with even more enthusiasm.
...Mouse is smelling the Loup-Garou blood, which is why he is savaging the doll.
I opened the door to SI and stepped inside. The main room was maybe fifty feet long and twenty wide, and desks were packed into it like sardines. The only cubicle walls in the room were around a small waiting area with a couple of worn old couches and a table with some magazines for bored adults and some toys for bored children. One of them, a plush Snoopy doll spotted with old, dark stains, lay on the floor.
The puppy stood over it, tiny teeth sunk into one of the doll's ears. He shook his head, his own torn ear flapping, and dragged Snoopy in a little circle while letting out small, squeaky growls. The puppy looked up at me. His tail wagged furiously, and he savaged the doll with even more enthusiasm.
"Hey," I told him. "Murphy's supposed to be watching you. What are you doing?"
The puppy growled and shook Snoopy harder.
: I felt the spell grow and prepare itself, and when it was ready, I released the power and broke the circle, feeling it flow out into the night, following the blood back to the loup-garou, winding itself about the creature, blinding its eyes, fouling its ears, lashing around its jaws and forcing them shut, crippling its taloned paws. The spell would hamper and confuse the beast, hopefully drive it to ground where no one could disturb it, keep it from venting its rage upon the people of the city. And it would last until dawn.
[10:41 AM] raidem: "Magic," I clarified grimly. "Make a symbolic link between a little thing," I nodded at the Snoopy doll, "and a big thing. Make it happen on the smaller scale and it happens on the larger scale, too.
Yeah. I think that was where he was going. Once we finish the series and get familiar with what exactly is a Foo Dog, an Ice Demon from the Land of Dreams, and Mouse's semidivine heritage, we will get an appreciation for exactly the metaphysical something that may have been going on between the puppy mouse and the stained Snoopy. Something that is a bit more than met the eye.Pretty sure we'll also see that puppy mouse actually spent the whole first book trying to Audition for his future job
He may have been deriving some absorbing some powers, though slight during that process. You are what you eat. And Mouse was drooling and chewing on dried Loup Garou blood.
Yeah. I think that was where he was going. Once we finish the series and get familiar with what exactly is a Foo Dog, an Ice Demon from the Land of Dreams, and Mouse's semidivine heritage, we will get an appreciation for exactly the metaphysical something that may have been going on between the puppy mouse and the stained Snoopy. Something that is a bit more than met the eye.... what your saying is mouse used divine thaumaturgy to attack the creature behind the Loops power by attacking his simulacrum? Cause that'd be funnier than just attacking an old scent trail.
He may have been deriving some absorbing some powers, though slight during that process. You are what you eat. And Mouse was drooling and chewing on dried Loup Garou blood.
What it makes me wonder is why SI is so gross as to keep a blood-stained doll around the office. I mean, biohazard much?Plus this was actually the beginning of Rudolph being a tardstick. I blame the thing that was stuck using Snoopy as it's greatest mirror image in reality, so he slowly bled into Rudolphs personality.
If Jim is saying there's something more to come once the series is done, then yeah.That was my impression. It was rereading the series after we learn everything. I believe this WOJL comes from around 2016 so that is long after BR. The WOJL is what pointed me to the 'doll' which he referred to that had Loup Garou blood on it which Mouse was playing with. So, I had to figure out what doll it was, why it had Loup Garou blood on it, and when was Mouse playing with it. Those details were the passages I included in the OP.
I'm was thinking it was probably Murphy that kept the Snoopy around.The Snoopy doll probably reminded her of Carmichael. I could see her keeping it around as a reminder of both her old partner, and something about the price of fighting evil.
I vaguely remember seeing the video where Jim talks about what we (the readers) would pick up on when we eventually reread the entire series. The way I remember it, Jim only used Mouse and the Snoopy doll as an example. I think there are many things we are supposed to discover on a later read through. Some are still hidden to us. For example, there could be something about Mab or Lea that will be revealed much later on, but when we reread Grave Peril, Summer Knight or Proven Guilty after all has been revealed, there will something that makes us say to ourselves, "So that's what was this bit of action or dialog was really hinting at."
Yeah. I think that was where he was going. Once we finish the series and get familiar with what exactly is a Foo Dog, an Ice Demon from the Land of Dreams, and Mouse's semidivine heritage, we will get an appreciation for exactly the metaphysical something that may have been going on between the puppy mouse and the stained Snoopy. Something that is a bit more than met the eye.a little off topic, but I had forgotten that Mouse was characterized as an Ice Demon, I would think that in the right conditions, an Ice Demon and a Winter Knight could work reallly well together...
Keeping in mind that the people who called him that were insane.True, but at least one of them couldnt Lie; Lea at least referred to him as a Demon and seemed to assume he should be sourcing his power in his homeland.
I mean tbh it seems unlikely. Remember SK? Maeve got all mad at Slate because the blood he brought her from Elaine was dried and useless. And Magical energies naturally bleed off with every sunrise.
That sort of thing tends to be very time-sensitive, and snoopy had been there a long time before Mouse found it.
a little off topic, but I had forgotten that Mouse was characterized as an Ice Demon, I would think that in the right conditions, an Ice Demon and a Winter Knight could work reallly well together...
Never heard of that before. I wouldn't characterize him with any "demon" since Uriel referred to him as "little brother", and he's descended from a Celestial Being.
I mean, Mouse drags it in a circle while making squeeky growls. That sounds like chanting while closing a circle to me.
Didn't Harry once note that the Council has a sample of his blood to track him if he goes rogue? That suggests there might be some way to establish a long-term link. Here, using the blood in the Snoopy ritual while the blood was still good might have made the Snoopy a long-term link.Yes, if you take a blood sample properly, put it in a vial with anticoagulant, it'd keep for a goodly long while. Dry blood is worth f@** all as a link
I mean, Mouse drags it in a circle while making squeeky growls. That sounds like chanting while closing a circle to me.
Yes, if you take a blood sample properly, put it in a vial with anticoagulant, it'd keep for a goodly long while. Dry blood is worth f@** all as a linkAgreed. They've said you can freeze it (or at least Mab can) but other than than it needs normal storage&care. Though if we are talking Magic, it's entirely possible the council has supernatural storage means, including at least two different routes to legal temporal manipulation (Steed and relativistic NN)
Magic works on the same principles for everyone. If Maeve found that dry blood is useless to her, I think it's unlikely that it would work for the damn muttNot as a Thaumaturgic connection, though it would still likely work for mundane scenting and stuff, which in turn could be augmented by weird doggy-magic.
Worth noting that in technical terms we dont know what sort of energy Mouse uses to know how similar it is to the Life Magic that harry or fae use. Given that it's sourced in Thresholds I wonder if its not closer to the Faith Magic side of the spectrum
Magic works on the same principles for everyone. If Maeve found that dry blood is useless to her, I think it's unlikely that it would work for the damn mutt
Here's the quote from Changes, the description is from Esmerelda...
“The Ik’k’uox,” she said in a distant, puzzled voice. “It is in pain. It flees. It . . .” She opened her eyes very wide, and suddenly they flooded in solid black, just as the creature’s had been. “Oh! It cheated!” Her face turned down to mine, and she bared her fangs. “It cheated! It brought a demon of its own! A mountain ice demon from the Land of Dreams!”
Butcher, Jim. Changes (The Dresden Files, Book 12) (p. 201). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Harry killed the Loup Garou while the link was still active. That could have had spill down effects on the link on Snoopy and extended its lifetime. Whatever the case may be, I believe this Snoopy doll will show up again in the series. If Harry or others ever need a link to a Loup Garou again, that doll would probably make a better stand in than many other items as it had already been linked to it before.Nah, the snoopy doll was used during the assault on the CPD precinct. By the time murphy shot the Loup Garou at Marcones place Harry had already escaped and been beaten and I think kidnapped at least once. I dont think he still had the doll at the final showdown, and I doubt Murphy would have taken it back to her desk afterward (since it would either be evidence or a very bad reminder of the assault).
I didn't say Harry took the snoopy with him to the final assault. We do know that Harry used a magical spell and a thaumaturgical link between blood smeared snoopy and loup garou to dull it's senses. This was an ongoing spell that wouldn't end until after sunrise/noon, one day, or what have you. What I'm wondering if there was an active link to go from small to large then can the loup garou's death cause feedback from large to small.Oooh, ok i misunderstood what you were saying. I looked back and I was wrong in two different ways: I thought the spell was a distraction during the assault itself before he got blasted through a couple buildings, I forgot that it was after and supposed to drive the loup to ground. Harry said when he cast it that it would last until the next sunrise, and I thought the final confrontation was the following evening. Turns out he just passed out like three times in a row that night.
By the time murphy shot the Loup Garou at Marcones place Harry had already escapedMurphy shot the FBI guy (Denton) coming up behind Harry with a club or something. On second reading however, it does say that Murphy...
In the film, the static clears and you can see Murphy shoot Denton off of my back, just before he brains me with his club. Then she spins around like Rambo, jumps out of the way of the leaping furry something-or-other, and empties the rest of her clip into the thing out of reflex.Harry used the silver amulet he inherited from his mother in a sling shot spell to kill the Loup Garou.
Murph and I both know the bullets didn't hurt it at all, that it was just a reflexive gesture on her part, but I don't need the attention. She was quite the hero according to the camera, and that was fine with me
"We're all cold, moron," Murphy snapped. "A front came through about the same time they threw us in that freaking pit. It must be below "We're all cold, moron," Murphy snapped. "A front came through about the same time they threw us in that freaking pit. It must be below
Murphy shot the FBI guy (Denton) coming up behind Harry with a club or something. On second reading however, it does say that Murphy...Harry used the silver amulet he inherited from his mother in a sling shot spell to kill the Loup Garou.Hmm, you're right, and in the text of the actual event it made it seem clear that just the amulet that did him in; I remembered the part where she'd made her own silver bullets and had sort of combined the scenarios in my mind. I really need to read the early ones more. I find early murphy fairly abrasive compared to later on, so I tend to avoid them on my rereads.
Early speculation was that perhaps Harry had actually permanently ended the Loup Garou curse. Of course, nothing would be that simple. That said, we have wondered if something special happened that night with Harry taking down that Loup Garou in that way other than of course killing the Loup Garou.
What has long made me curious as to what Mab was up to in Fool Moon was this...
Hmm...
Well, if I was to combine my Murphy/Mab theory with some of these events maybe she gave Murphy an assist when she went all Rambo like against the Loup Garou after one shotting Denton. That wasn't part of the story told until Susan video taped it.
I really need to read the early ones more. I find early murphy fairly abrasive compared to later on, so I tend to avoid them on my rereads.
Hmm, you're right, and in the text of the actual event it made it seem clear that just the amulet that did him in; I remembered the part where she'd made her own silver bullets and had sort of combined the scenarios in my mind. I really need to read the early ones more. I find early murphy fairly abrasive compared to later on, so I tend to avoid them on my rereads.
I stared at the sketch. "Karrin," I began again. "Stars above, you've got to listen to me." I took the sketch from her hands, my fingers trembling.
"Harry," she said, in a calm tone. "You lying bastard," and on the word she drove her fist into my stomach, hard, doubling me over. The motion put my head within easy reach, and her fist took me across the jaw in a right cross that sent me to the floor like a lump of wet pasta, stars dancing in my vision.
I was only dimly aware of her taking the sketch back from me. She twisted my arms painfully behind my back, and snapped her handcuffs around my wrists. "You promised me," she said, her voice furious. "You promised. No secrets. You lied to me all along. You played me like a sucker the entire while. Godammit, Dresden, you're involved in this and people are dying."
"Murph," I mumbled. "Wait."
She grabbed my hair, jerked my head back, and slammed me across the jaw again, near-berserk anger lending her strength. My head swam, and blackness closed over my vision for several seconds.
"No more talking. No more lies," I heard her say, and she dragged me to my feet, shoved my face and chest against a wall, and began searching me for weapons. "No more people torn up like meat on a block. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law."
I'm just saying "No charges at the time of arrest" does not make it an illegal arrest, and that's the kind of thinking that gets people tased on youtube.
No, it's usually the 'it's okay to resist' thinking that gets you tased. It's never a good idea to resist, even if the arrest is illegitimate, because the Police are Corrupt as an institution (which is what naturally happens when you police your own).
Murphy wasn't just abrasive in the first couple books, she was a straight-up asshole, especially in Fool Moon.Just an uptight cop, I think. She took him home and made him comfortable, like any decent human being would do (and most won't) so...
I don't report people but would you stick to Dresden universe and not your political beliefs?
Just an uptight cop, I think. She took him home and made him comfortable, like any decent human being would do (and most won't) so...
Murphy has never been a bad person certainly, though she has some real asshole moments- again, just look at her in that passage- That wasn't 'uptight' that was Felony Assault on someone that was not just non-violent, but actively co-operative, based on... well, jack and shit.
No, she isn't a bad person, but she is opinionated to the point of pigheadedness... This is what has often made things worse... When she is on Harry's side she is loyal to a fault..
Loyal to a fault or simply believing his cause is just?
Back in Cold Days we had a certain revevation that tied the plots in the earlier books into one cohesive thing, Did you have that in mind when you were writing those earlier books? Or did you tie those later on when you were writing Cold Days.
You are talking about Nemesis right. No, that was there from the get go, and has been showing up, on stage from Grave Peril. There is Nemesis characters showing up in Grave Peril doing things. And there are more of them happen along the way which you don't know about yet Which is why it is such a great threat, it can be completely invisible and transparent and you don't know it is there until later when you work it out and Ooo. My whole point in writing a lot of these books is I try to write it so that you can get a different sense of it later on after you go back and read it again and go Ooo. And I try to do it in little ways and little things like with Mouse and you eventually work out what Mouse really is and you go back to the all of a sudden the scene where he is ferociously attacking Harry Dresden Snoopy doll is a lot different because its the Snoopy doll that has the Loup Garou's blood on it from several books ago and that is what he is smelling and that is why he is assaulting it. He is instinctively good and awesome. There is a lot of stuff I don't bring out. I try not to shove things in everybodys face. Hopefully you get a different sense of it if you go back and read it again. I like rereading books. I like rereading a book and going Now that I know the ending this line right here is a lot funnier than it was before. The writer must have been laughing his ass off when he wrote it and Hopefully I can give that experience to readers too.