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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: alllawyersarewizards on April 14, 2018, 08:09:05 PM
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Dear Jim:
Your fan community is dying. What was once a verdant and energetic scene is now defunct. We used to theorize, speculate, and obsess over detail. Now we don’t even recall the bliss of sample chapters or surprising twists. You’ve left us hanging, man, and it hurts.
But that pain fades.
I check for updates on Peace Talks less and less. I no longer wonder about Cowl’s identity or who fixed Little Chicago. It was fun while you cared enough to actually write some stuff, but I guess it’s over now.
Wish it could have ended differently. I would have followed you the end, to the very fires of Mordor.
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I know you're frustrated, but don't fret! Peace Talks will most likely be out in October. So enjoy your spring, and summer and come fall you will have a great book coming out! While you're waiting check out some other books, or reread the series to pick up on stuff you may have forgotten, or missed. You can bet that after Peace Talks is out there will be a whole lot of theory crafting going on back here on the forums!
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We've been told before that it should be out by this time or that, just for that time to pass.
I feel the pain of the poster but I think Jim will have one out this year.
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Brief Cases is coming out in June. That may not do much for the hardcore guys who've read everything already, but it has me excited.
And, I believe he did write a short story just for that anthology.
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Since I haven't read even one of those short stories, for me it's almost as if I get two books this year (if we assume that Peace Talks will still be out in 2018). Yeah, it's been a damn long time, but compared to another very popular writer, it hasn't been all that long.
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Yeah, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that we'll have had fifteen books and two anthologies (17 books total) in 18 years and 2 months once BC comes out. Not to mention 6 original comic book stories, 6 Alera books, 1 Spiderman book, and 1 Spires book, for a grand total of 31 major releases from Butcher in that time. Which averages to a release every 7 months.
That doesn't even count the anthology he edited, which was likely time consuming and required significant effort, or the contributions to the show, RPGs and card game.
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Don’t obfuscate this. JB has given up on us. It is what it is. The bs anthologies are nothing more than an (poor) attempt to keep readers happy. Write a novel if you care so much about your fans. I show up to work everyday just like you.
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Don’t obfuscate this. JB has given up on us. It is what it is. The bs anthologies are nothing more than an (poor) attempt to keep readers happy. Write a novel if you care so much about your fans. I show up to work everyday just like you.
My apologies. Perhaps we weren't as sympathetic to your plight as we should have been. Needless to say, the only work of his that should "count" is the work you prefer.
My sympathies, in this most trying of times.
(https://images.megapixl.com/1949/19491111.jpg)
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You are not owed a book by Jim Butcher. If he chooses to take up his eponymous trade and never write again you have no claim for anything from Jim Butcher. I want to read Peace Talks as much as any other fan but guess what... life happens.
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Don’t obfuscate this. JB has given up on us. It is what it is. The bs anthologies are nothing more than an (poor) attempt to keep readers happy. Write a novel if you care so much about your fans. I show up to work everyday just like you.
No, GRRM gave up on his fans perhaps, Jim took personal time for himself after he managed to get the chain keeping him at his desk unlocked. Don't worry, we'll use thicker chains and bigger locks net time. But i fear with mistreatment like this he'll just stop caring about his fans and those whom simply seem to call themselves fans without bona fides.
YOU Sir, are NOT fanatical and you don't deserve the title..... Even i don't give a damn about Bandwagon 'fans' so idc if Jim does certainly, just saying..
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What if this is actually Jim trolling us? It could be! probably not...
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What if this is actually Jim trolling us? It could be! probably not...
Y'know, it could be. It's not like he doesn't have time, what with not doing much writing and all...
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Y'know, it could be. It's not like he doesn't have time, what with not doing much writing and all...
I mean his last novel (Aeronauts Windlass) was published Sep 2015. 3-4 years between books is about average for most Authors; Jim has just been well ahead of the curve until now.
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I mean his last novel (Aeronauts Windlass) was published Sep 2015. 3-4 years between books is about average for most Authors; Jim has just been well ahead of the curve until now.
He had youthful vigor and an idea well thought ahead to go from, of course he could pump them out faster. I'm not really sure how old he is, but i'm thirty and i'm feeling it already so...
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I mean his last novel (Aeronauts Windlass) was published Sep 2015. 3-4 years between books is about average for most Authors; Jim has just been well ahead of the curve until now.
Yep. We were spoiled for a long time. Hell, there were even a few years when we got two books, with the Codex Alera included.
The reason we're all feeling it is because it's a serial. If they were just loosely connected books that took place in the same universe, like Stephen King, we wouldn't care as much.
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Yep. We were spoiled for a long time. Hell, there were even a few years when we got two books, with the Codex Alera included.
The reason we're all feeling it is because it's a serial. If they were just loosely connected books that took place in the same universe, like Stephen King, we wouldn't care as much.
These books have serial aspects but the really are just loosely connected novels set in the same universe with the same characters.
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Very few authors can pump out books at the rate Jim has. I'm all for him slowing down if that is what he needs to remain refreshed and keep the quality of books consistent.
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These books have serial aspects but the really are just loosely connected novels set in the same universe with the same characters.
Sure, I'm mainly thinking about the larger metanarrative that's been shaping across the entire series. I liken each book to an episode in a short season. 1-4, 5-11, and 12-14, maybe 12-15, depending on how Peace Talks shakes out. All three (or four) arcs have the underpinnings of an ongoing narrative, revealed and named in Cold Days.
It's not exactly serial, you're right, but it's close enough for me.
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When we have unanswered questions from almost every book... It's a serial mystery, so it's spot on for me. Still waiting to find out about either parent, faith Astor, Sells kids, Mavra's fate, Nemesis/Black Council explanations, ect. One book stands alone as a story within itself, but it's a series of stories with an end game so...
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Slightly unrelated topic, but not really. Jim was scheduled at a writer's conference in Colorado starting on April 27th. I just checked the conference website and Jim isn't listed as attending. That may be disappointing for aspiring writers who are also fans of Jim's work, but it suggests he his concentrating on finishing Peace Talks which I think we can all agree is a good thing.
I do miss those times when Jim would go on twitter and announce "I just loaded (fill in the blank) and I'm at 75% of my expected word count." Plus, those times when he would announce "I just finished up the final battle and now have only to write the denouement chapter," let us know he was getting close to finishing. Also, I agree with the OP on one subject. Unless it would be super spoilery, I'd love to see Jim do a reading of the first two or three chapters several months before publication. He hasn't done that in ages.
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Slightly unrelated topic, but not really. Jim was scheduled at a writer's conference in Colorado starting on April 27th. I just checked the conference website and Jim isn't listed as attending. That may be disappointing for aspiring writers who are also fans of Jim's work, but it suggests he his concentrating on finishing Peace Talks which I think we can all agree is a good thing.
I do miss those times when Jim would go on twitter and announce "I just loaded (fill in the blank) and I'm at 75% of my expected word count." Plus, those times when he would announce "I just finished up the final battle and now have only to write the denouement chapter," let us know he was getting close to finishing. Also, I agree with the OP on one subject. Unless it would be super spoilery, I'd love to see Jim do a reading of the first two or three chapters several months before publication. He hasn't done that in ages.
Given the level of bitching that has been leveled at him recently is it any surprise he’s more reticent to post updates?
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Don’t obfuscate this. JB has given up on us. It is what it is. The bs anthologies are nothing more than an (poor) attempt to keep readers happy. Write a novel if you care so much about your fans. I show up to work everyday just like you.
Treat the series as having ended with Changes. It was a great book with a great fight scene and wrapped up a lot of threads. Maybe in twenty years you can check if Jim ever finished the series (not attacking Jim, it's an ambitious series he may not finish it in his lifetime).
His personal life is none of my business and I've said that before on this board. Where many fans get lost is that when our lives go to sh@t we don't get to not work. We show up and put in our time or we starve (or our children starve, or we are unable to make child support, or the house gets foreclosed, etc.) Our feels don't matter.
On the other hand, it's also important to remember that none of us know Jim, we just like reading his books. So, let me compare him to Kurt Cobain or Hemingway. Would nagging Cobain or Hemingway about their next project speed things up? Well no, because they really didn't need to get that far ahead with their planning. Just let it go, he's a stranger to us.
You are not owed a book by Jim Butcher. If he chooses to take up his eponymous trade and never write again you have no claim for anything from Jim Butcher. I want to read Peace Talks as much as any other fan but guess what... life happens.
I've seen it posted before that Jim Butcher doesn't owe us anything. I disagree. When standalone books are written absolutely nothing is owed. Implicit in every trilogy is the belief that there will be a third book. If the third book doesn't get written there is no point in reading the first two books. It wasted the readers time defrauded the reader out of money and time and left the reader hanging with no resolution.
The early books were standalone novels. Once he left the case mysteries set up (really since Changes and his books that I preferred) it became more like a trilogy or long series.
Imagine if you get to the last book of the Harry Potter series and it doesn't get written just because the author decided that she didn't want to, had plenty of money, and didn't owe the fans anything. Well, it's pretty clear that in such a circumstance the writer is a jerk.
In contrast, it would have been unfortunate to the reader, but completely understandable for Robert Jordan to not have spent the last part of his life outlining the wheel of time series.
YOU Sir, are NOT fanatical and you don't deserve the title..... Even i don't give a damn about Bandwagon 'fans' so idc if Jim does certainly, just saying..
If you are a Jim Butcher fan then you've seen him write/speak about how much he hates fans attacking each other over Peace Talks Release Date. It's possible to disagree without personal attacks.
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Na A. I didn't 'attack' fyi. if I had it would be against the precepts and the mods would have said something
B. second, I can be a fan without following his methodology. Gene Roddenberry was a helluva nice guy... who kept a lawyer on a leash to release like a pitbull. Gene never stopped that from happening despite his own outstanding nature. "looks left" "looks right" oh look, nobodies running to stop me here either.
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Na A. I didn't 'attack' fyi. if I had it would be against the precepts and the mods would have said something
B. second, I can be a fan without following his methodology. Gene Roddenberry was a helluva nice guy... who kept a lawyer on a leash to release like a pitbull. Gene never stopped that from happening despite his own outstanding nature. "looks left" "looks right" oh look, nobodies running to stop me here either.
I don't really care about the moderator's definition of attack. The question is: was that portion of your comment emotionally charged and designed to elicit a negative emotional response from the op? If so, it was an attack.
As for Gene Roddenberry's lawyer that was his lawyer. His lawyer was literally paid to do stuff and a good lawyer tells his client to blame everything on the lawyer when talking to people.
I was just hoping that this forum could stay civil until a new book came out that would allow me to toss out wags in a friendly manner in what used to be a friendly board.
If you see it differently than so be it. No board is perfect, but maybe the op was right that the board isn't what it used to be. :(
I'm sure I'll check the board again in a few months, until then later.
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No actually that's just how I communicate, are you currently attacking me??? I feel it, even if you don't. and I was stating pretty pure facts there Bub. I was relating my personal opinion regarding not just this but all bandwagon auctioning and pointing out, that the original 'attack on Jim for not caring was backed by real fan's knowing that's not what's going.
I wish this forum didn't have people trying to make mountains out of molehills, something I think you and the Op have in common here now.
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I think "Elvis has left the building," jonas. Darn. I was hoping for an encore.
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Sometimes life happens dude.
Plans getting put on hold.
Dealing with all the things life throws at you becomes like dodgeball.
Things that use to come easily are now more difficult.
Sometimes breaking even is the best case scenario - after all, you don't want to take 10 steps backwards.
I wouldn't say the fanbase is dead, just inactive. They're out doing other things. Some check back once a year. Others once every couple months. And when a new book is out, I'm sure the majority of them will find their way back to the fanbase as active members.
Lord knows the LV426 fandom held out for years!
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This isn't aimed at any one person. In the immortal words of HAL 9000:
"I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over." ;D
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I wouldn't say the fanbase is dead, just inactive. They're out doing other things. Some check back once a year. Others once every couple months. And when a new book is out, I'm sure the majority of them will find their way back to the fanbase as active members.
In their hall at Arctis Tor,
Dead Butcherites lie dreaming.
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flying peach,
I've seen it posted before that Jim Butcher doesn't owe us anything. I disagree. When standalone books are written absolutely nothing is owed. Implicit in every trilogy is the belief that there will be a third book. If the third book doesn't get written there is no point in reading the first two books. It wasted the readers time defrauded the reader out of money and time and left the reader hanging with no resolution.
The early books were standalone novels. Once he left the case mysteries set up (really since Changes and his books that I preferred) it became more like a trilogy or long series.
Imagine if you get to the last book of the Harry Potter series and it doesn't get written just because the author decided that she didn't want to, had plenty of money, and didn't owe the fans anything. Well, it's pretty clear that in such a circumstance the writer is a jerk.
Here's my difficulty with your position "owed" implies a legal obligation. I just don't see that. We were given a book that is part of a series. We paid for the book and read the book with full knowledge of the fact that is a part of a series. There is no guarantee the series will ever be complete. There is no obligation by the author to complete the series. That might make the writer who chooses to hang up his pen and become a... blacksmith a bit of a jerk but there is nothing we can do about that other than kvetch that it was not fair that we didn't get the "whole story".
My problem is that when people claim they are "owed" something by a writer they really don't know what they are talking about. When you buy a book, you get the book that you bought, and nothing more. There is no legally binding promise to finish the full story.
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flying peach,
Here's my difficulty with your position "owed" implies a legal obligation. I just don't see that. We were given a book that is part of a series. We paid for the book and read the book with full knowledge of the fact that is a part of a series. There is no guarantee the series will ever be complete. There is no obligation by the author to complete the series. That might make the writer who chooses to hang up his pen and become a... blacksmith a bit of a jerk but there is nothing we can do about that other than kvetch that it was not fair that we didn't get the "whole story".
My problem is that when people claim they are "owed" something by a writer they really don't know what they are talking about. When you buy a book, you get the book that you bought, and nothing more. There is no legally binding promise to finish the full story.
I wasn't planning on posting here again in this thread (I edited this to add in this thread), but if someone writes a thoughtful response it deserves a response. In fact, I feel like I OWE it to you. ;) Har, har, har.
It's been a long week and this will be a bit stream of consciousness so if you''ll tolerate me I'll set forth my position.
Owed isn't strictly limited to a legal obligation. It infers an obligation, whether of a legal nature or not. For instance, a person can owe a responsibility or duty (if you have a legal background and a happy contrarian streak right not you are thinking "but what about legally imposed duties and contractual duties" and my response is "I'm excluding the legal theory"). It's even possible to "owe it to yourself" as well as "owe it to your children." Or think about the common phrases of "owe an apology," or "owe an explanation" or even the phrase "owe common courtesy."
I believe that as a matter of courtesy a writer of a trilogy or series owes the reader a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to finish the trilogy or series. The following events would be a noninclusive list of things that I would consider being valid reasons for the writer to give up on a series: the publisher decided not to continue the series, the writer got sick, the writer had things come up in his personal life and wasn't in the right of state of mind to write anymore, or the writer couldn't feed himself with the money he was earning and couldn't write anymore.
If Jim never finishes the series because he had stuff come up, that's cool. He seems like a nice guy and I think he probably would have made a reasonable effort to finish the series. I'll be disappointed, but it won't be the first writer I had fade out on a series.
No actually that's just how I communicate, are you currently attacking me???
I wasn't trying to attack you. I rewrote several things and deleted several things in an effort to make sure that it was a disagreement rather than a personal attack. I'll continue to make an effort to respectfully disagree.
I was stating pretty pure facts there Bub.
What facts are you referring to?
I was relating my personal opinion regarding not just this but all bandwagon auctioning and pointing out, that the original 'attack on Jim for not caring was backed by real fan's knowing that's not what's going.
I don't know what this means.
If you are saying that the op said that Jim doesn't care about his fans and that you believe Jim cares about his fans, then I have no argument with that. Jim seems like a nice guy. I don't believe it correlates with the portion of your post I originally quoted though.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2wJPkbdOPo
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Authors are gonna write when they are gonna write.
But dude IS spot on about this site. There is not a lot of activity going down here.
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Authors are gonna write when they are gonna write.
But dude IS spot on about this site. There is not a lot of activity going down here.
We, unfortunately, have little to talk about at this time that hasn’t been previously chewed to death. If I read the word “mantle” once more my head might explode.
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We, unfortunately, have little to talk about at this time that hasn’t been previously chewed to death. If I read the word “mantle” once more my head might explode.
Pallium? Laena? Chlamis?
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We, unfortunately, have little to talk about at this time that hasn’t been previously chewed to death. If I read the word “mantle” once more my head might explode.
Then I probably shouldn't start a discussion about what Harry kept over his fireplace?
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Then I probably shouldn't start a discussion about what Harry kept over his fireplace?
Well his winter mantle was probably decorated for Christmas. Maybe Some of those ceramic town scenes some nice candles and a snow globe or two?
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You have a “mantel” over your fireplace. And you wear a “mantle”.
;)
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/mantel-or-mantle
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Hence forth I will discuss them as a cloak of power and a fireplace shelf.
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So, you don't want to talk about the interior of the Earth between the core and the crust, a fragile mesh covering around a gas jet, or the upper part of bird of prey's back?
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So, you don't want to talk about the interior of the Earth between the core and the crust, a fragile mesh covering around a gas jet, or the upper part of bird of prey's back?
I want to see Harry find a Mantle for making new Mantles hidden in a mantel next to a pit that reaches all the way to the Earth’s Mantle.
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I want to see Harry find a Mantle for making new Mantles hidden in a mantel next to a pit that reaches all the way to the Earth’s Mantle.
What about a Mantle that destroys other Mantles?
(http://chapterbreak.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/only-one.gif)
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I want to see Harry find a Mantle for making new Mantles hidden in a mantel next to a pit that reaches all the way to the Earth’s Mantle.
But he'll only be a man 'til he finds it. Afterwards he'll be a God
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It is not Mr. Butcher we need to talk to. He can not write, if the wizard stops telling his stories. Harry isn't "talking" to Jim. If we do recieve Peace talks this year I'll be happy. I now live on the Big Island of Hawaii, so I don't know if or when my library will buy the book. My library has the other books. Right now I am working my way thru Sue Grafton's, may she RIP, A-Y series. Also Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson series, Linda Castillo's series, Jude Deaxuer, sorry for spelling, and my cozy mystery books. I read whatever catches my eye. So everyone, lets see if we can the wizard to "talk" to Jim so we can have our books. Harry must be upset aout something. He always blames himself if something goes wrong. Maybe Harry can set up a trust fund for his daughter from the money he gets from Jim writing his story. LOL!!!
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Right now I am working my way thru Sue Grafton's, may she RIP, A-Y series. Also Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson series, Linda Castillo's series, Jude Deaxuer, sorry for spelling, and my cozy mystery books.
The Mercy Thompson series is, in my opinion, the most consistently well written urban fantasy series I've tried next to the DF. Fleshed out characters, great plots, and best of all tons of books to read until Peace Talks
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Authors are gonna write when they are gonna write.
But dude IS spot on about this site. There is not a lot of activity going down here.
I can't speak for anyone else, but it *was* announced that this forum was going away so many members may have gone elsewehere and/or not bothered to come here. I moderate a Jim Butcher fan group on Facebook with over 2000 members and it's pretty active.
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You are correct. There is a new short story exclusive to Brief Cases and it's called Zoo Day (https://youtu.be/Js2pG5ell5s?t=20m37s) Harry and Maggie and Mouse go to the zoo and the story is told from each of their points of view.
Brief Cases is coming out in June. That may not do much for the hardcore guys who've read everything already, but it has me excited.
And, I believe he did write a short story just for that anthology.
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As long as Jim's books continue to b as entertaining I'll keep reading.
I'd rather have quality stories.
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As long as Jim's books continue to b as entertaining I'll keep reading.
I'd rather have quality stories.
I don't think anyone would disagree with getting quality stories, but it would be nice if Jim would do an update on Twitter when he finishes the big boss battle chapter and only has the denouement chapter left to write, or when he starts the final big boss battle chapter. At least when he used to make those kind of announcements you had the feeling real progress was being made and that it would only be a few more weeks. About six weeks ago Jim said he might be finished around the end of April. Now if it takes until (for example) the end of June, then so be it, but it would be nice not to be so in the dark as we are now.
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When was the last time Butcher has posted on Twitter? Months?
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If you guys are impatient now, I hate to see how you will feel in the 2030s when the series still isn’t quite done at a pace of two years per book. If you’re lucky, wars, civil unrest, climate change, and the AI revolution will keep you occupied till then. ;D
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When was the last time Butcher has posted on Twitter? Months?
Jim hasn't posted in months, but he used to do regular posts giving his audience rough updates when writing past novels. I understand why Jim got off off twitter, because he took the time to make many other posts, and that can get time consuming. However once he gets into the home stretch; meaning finishing the next to last chapter, I think it would nice to get an update from Jim.
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I think I am at the point where I will take any kinda update. Maybe someone should check his pulse. Just joking!
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We, unfortunately, have little to talk about at this time that hasn’t been previously chewed to death. If I read the word “mantle” once more my head might explode.
We wrote hundreds of pages debating whether Goodman Grey was a naagloshii Scion!
(Could probably get a couple more out of that, to be honest.)
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writing a good book is hard. jim started this series over 18 years ago. I am gusing he has writing fatigue with the character along with other things in his life slowing down his creativity.....jus be patient ….
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Great, but it is part of a collection of short stories by him that most of us have read and bought the books that they are in... Since it is Harry, Maggie, and Mouse it may give us a glimpse of what Dresden family life will be like... So it should be a little better than the usual crumbs tossed our way to further the story..
writing a good book is hard. jim started this series over 18 years ago. I am gusing he has writing fatigue with the character along with other things in his life slowing down his creativity.....jus be patient ….
I've said this for a while now... That is why I wish for his sake and his fans as well that he wrap up the series, instead of needing five books to do it, make it two.. Then get into the BAT..
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Huh? Community dead?
I dunno. I keep having lots of great discussions. It's mostly on facebook, and other forums though, rather than here.
This is the first time I checked this forum in months. But I've been discussing a lot of crazy theories on facebook recently.
The community isn't dead, it has just moved.
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Huh? Community dead?
I dunno. I keep having lots of great discussions. It's mostly on facebook, and other forums though, rather than here.
This is the first time I checked this forum in months. But I've been discussing a lot of crazy theories on facebook recently.
The community isn't dead, it has just moved.
Facebook link please?
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Great, but it is part of a collection of short stories by him that most of us have read and bought the books that they are in... Since it is Harry, Maggie, and Mouse it may give us a glimpse of what Dresden family life will be like... So it should be a little better than the usual crumbs tossed our way to further the story..
I've said this for a while now... That is why I wish for his sake and his fans as well that he wrap up the series, instead of needing five books to do it, make it two.. Then get into the BAT..
At one time I would have vehemently disagreed with you; however, time and one's expectations change. Plus, I've read other extended series which would have benefited from "getting to the point" rather than meandering down the road; becoming a travelogue or introducing new and uninteresting plot twists along with pointless characters to kill off, and in general just being a bore. I'm sure a lot of us could name two or three series that fit the last sentence above.
I can't see inside of Jim's head; none of us can, but I do wonder how clear the path forward is for him with Harry Dresden. Sure, Jim has an outline; but the description of it sounds to me to like a series of a very basic ideas like, "Harry wakes up without the ability to do magic", rather than a detailed list of how each novel should progress. Maybe it would be better for Jim to reexamine what he really needs to do to bring Harry's story to a fitting conclusion, rather than committing to a concept he came up with due to his misunderstanding what his writing teacher said to him about thinking about how to develop and finish Storm Front, almost twenty years ago.
Maybe reading Peace Talks will make me change my mind, but I have a feeling that even if it exceeds my expectations I'll feel like the story should start heading for the finish line rather than just turning another corner in the road.
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That is why I wish for his sake and his fans as well that he wrap up the series, instead of needing five books to do it, make it two.. Then get into the BAT..
Not for the sake of this fan. I want him to keep writing books. Two is too few for my liking. If he had 10 more before the BAT I'd be fine with it.
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Not for the sake of this fan. I want him to keep writing books. Two is too few for my liking. If he had 10 more before the BAT I'd be fine with it.
If he writes them for the next twenty years and never completes them i'll still be happier than if he F@*)s it up by cutting it too short though. I've seen series ruined by trying to crunch a story into the allotted books and failing. *cough*inheritance cycle*cough*
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flying peach,
Here's my difficulty with your position "owed" implies a legal obligation. I just don't see that. We were given a book that is part of a series. We paid for the book and read the book with full knowledge of the fact that is a part of a series. There is no guarantee the series will ever be complete. There is no obligation by the author to complete the series. That might make the writer who chooses to hang up his pen and become a... blacksmith a bit of a jerk but there is nothing we can do about that other than kvetch that it was not fair that we didn't get the "whole story".
My problem is that when people claim they are "owed" something by a writer they really don't know what they are talking about. When you buy a book, you get the book that you bought, and nothing more. There is no legally binding promise to finish the full story.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/owe (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/owe)
Owe can, but does not necessarily, mean a legal obligation, as per definition and examples from above link.
From the information we have available, no, we are not owed anything. Mr. Butcher has not entered into contract with us, his audience. As you say, we buy individual books and receive their contents. That is the extent of our legal expectations. Not knowing what kind of contract Mr. Butcher has with his publisher, he may or may not legally owe them multiple manuscripts for different novels, but either way, we are not party to that contract.
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If he writes them for the next twenty years and never completes them i'll still be happier than if he F@*)s it up by cutting it too short though. I've seen series ruined by trying to crunch a story into the allotted books and failing. *cough*inheritance cycle*cough*
Or he could F@*) up just as badly by dragging it out just because he originally slated the series for X amount of books. If he is bored with the series, wants to do other projects I say more power to him.. If he can say it better in two or three more books why should he do five?
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Or he could F@*) up just as badly by dragging it out just because he originally slated the series for X amount of books. If he is bored with the series, wants to do other projects I say more power to him.. If he can say it better in two or three more books why should he do five?
The key words there: If he can say it better in two or three more books.
We haven't had any indication he can wrap everything up in two or three more books+BAT. If anything, Jim's stated before he's had to add books to his original planned outline because the series has evolved and certain characters and plot threads required more care.
I'd rather the series maintain quality than feel a need to rush-rush-rush to make up for lost time.
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Or he could F@*) up just as badly by dragging it out just because he originally slated the series for X amount of books. If he is bored with the series, wants to do other projects I say more power to him.. If he can say it better in two or three more books why should he do five?
Because he has a plan, and has outlined the story for a certain number of books. The number of books has increased in his outline, not decreased.
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Because he has a plan, and has outlined the story for a certain number of books. The number of books has increased in his outline, not decreased.
But perhaps he should consider decreasing them?
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But perhaps he should consider decreasing them?
Why? If it's the amount he feels he needs and he's still getting contracts for it, that's all there is.
Readers can decide for themselves if they want to stick it out.
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Yeah, I see absolutely no reason why he should deviate from his original plan. It has been working out so far. Only because some fans become impatient is no reason to rush his story, thereby decreasing its quality.
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Yeah, I see absolutely no reason why he should deviate from his original plan. It has been working out so far. Only because some fans become impatient is no reason to rush his story, thereby decreasing its quality.
Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was.... Also a lot can happen in twenty years
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Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was.... Also a lot can happen in twenty years
That is fair, though some would say that the quality has made a positive change, not a negative.
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Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was...
And they'd be being too stubborn to be honest with even themselves if anyone actually thinks that...
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Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was.... Also a lot can happen in twenty years
The books have changed since Changes. I don't know if quality is the word, but a style change. Earlier books seemed more slow paced, figuring out a puzzle. After Changes they seem more like an action movie. I prefer the earlier books.
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The books have changed since Changes. I don't know if quality is the word, but a style change. Earlier books seemed more slow paced, figuring out a puzzle. After Changes they seem more like an action movie. I prefer the earlier books.
I see why you would say that a style change has occurred, but I disagree. I think it's a scale change.
Up until Changes, we were dealing with Harry Dresden: the only professional wizard in the Chicago phone book. He solved cases, did jobs, made snarky comments, and caused a lot of property damage. Chase and action scenes were abundant, but on the scale you would expect from a mid-budget television show about an inner city superhero.
Post Changes, we have Harry Dresden: the reluctant Winter Knight. He solves unofficial cases, does jobs, makes snarky comments, and causes exponentially more property damage. The number of chase and action scenes is comparable, but each one has had its FX budget quintupled.
The only exception I can think of is Changes. That one feels like Dresden's version of the first Avengers movie.
What I suspect is happening that is causing some readers misgivings is that the scale change is removing the story from a relatable setting. We related to the PI and his clients more than the Winter Knight and his colleagues because they were more understandable. It's easy to imagine a guy down on his luck and living in a cheap apartment below Mrs. Spunklekrief, and very relatable. The same guy parkouring over crystallized monstrosities in an underground mega prison on an enchanted island is still a sympathetic character, but his circumstances distance him from us as an audience. Ditto situations, etc.
That being said, I like the in depth look we're finally getting at much of what was teased in the earlier books. The Fae were nebulous and above it all before. Now they're understandable characters. The Red Court war has run its course, and their absence isn't just another baddie put down. Their demise had world-changing consequences.
Matters of taste are not to be disputed. I, for one, am excited to see what comes next (no, not What Comes Next from Ghost Story. Hopefully I have many a year left...).
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Well I mean that in the earlier books Harry made gadgets to help him, and things like that. He was more like Batman, while now he's more like Superman. He really has become more of a Winter Knight than the wizard he once was. He uses ice, and some soulfire. Besides that he doesn't really do much other magic it doesn't seem like.
Earlier books he used things like:
Staff
Blasting rod
Kinetic rings
Shield bracelet
Belt Buckle
Magic Sword
Magic Duster
Potions
Bob
Gun
Various forms of magic
Newer books:
Winter Knight Mantle
Soulfire
Gun
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Well I mean that in the earlier books Harry made gadgets to help him, and things like that. He was more like Batman, while now he's more like Superman. He really has become more of a Winter Knight than the wizard he once was. He uses ice, and some soulfire. Besides that he doesn't really do much other magic it doesn't seem like.
Earlier books he used things like:
Staff
Blasting rod
Kinetic rings
Shield bracelet
Belt Buckle
Magic Sword
Magic Duster
Potions
Bob
Gun
Various forms of magic
Newer books:
Winter Knight Mantle
Soulfire
Gun
I think we'll see more of these come back. As of Skin Game, the staff is back, and the kinetic rings were combined into it. I thought the duster came back in Cold Days.
Since Chicken Pizza wiped out most of his material possessions, I imagine he just hasn't yet had the time to replenish. Ghost Story wouldn't have worked at all, and most of Cold Days was physical therapy. The interim between Cold Days and Skin Game helped, but the increasing headaches probably threw him off his game too.
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I'd like to see more fire, really. Harry used to be a bit of a pyromaniac. Maybe he'll make a flame ring that absorbs his body heat over time, or even converts kinetic energy if he doesn't want the ring to be perpetually cold, then unleash it in a huge, unexpected rain of FIRE!!!!
Ah, the sweet red rose. Burn baby burn
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The style hasn’t really changed. It’s still the exact same format and structure for every one of the stories. The main character is just dealing with larger scale stories now. But, the book structure itself is still the exact same paint by numbers formula. One change that I like is less of the “look at me be a private eye” stuff. That was his hook early on, but it’s served its purpose and the story moved passed it. His writing is better than it used to be, but it’s still not good.
As far as fans “sticking “ with it, that’s not really needed. If waiting is too much, just forget the series till the 2030s and, if you’re still alive then, take the opportunity to see if Butcher ever finished that series you used to read. If he has, you can read them. :)
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I can’t wait for Peace Talks.
:)
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I can’t wait for Peace Talks.
:)
Yeah, I don’t mind waiting, either. Right now, I’m listening to audiobooks of the Malazan series. Fantasy fans have probably already read it, but I hadn’t read a lot of fantasy in the past. If anyone hasn’t read it, I highly recommended it. The first book can be a bit of a chore, but every book gets better and better. And, I believe, the series is done. I’m near the end of book eight of ten now. The books are also pretty long, with the audio versions being 42+ hours each. I listen to them at night when my husband snores. ;D
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I know it's been ages but damn if this book is a series highlight (which says so much given how good this series is) then th wait will be worth it.
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I know it's been ages but damn if this book is a series highlight (which says so much given how good this series is) then th wait will be worth it.
I'm trying to temper my expectations, because I find that any level of hype before a long-awaited installment leads to a letdown. I am hoping for an installment that reintroduces Harry to the larger supernatural community beyond Winter, seeing some old faces, and Harry having to balance being a dad and boyfriend with being a wizard and the Winter Knight. Which should be exactly what we're getting.
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I think in the next book we will get a lot more of the old harry. there was just so much fall out from chances that it has taken harry time to find his footing....I am betting that we will be seeing a lot of harry being a dad in peace talks along with a milt down of the supernatural community.
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If he writes them for the next twenty years and never completes them i'll still be happier than if he F@*)s it up by cutting it too short though. I've seen series ruined by trying to crunch a story into the allotted books and failing. *cough*inheritance cycle*cough*
Even Sanderson has fallen for this one. Anyone else read The Reckoners? It was good until the last book, and then it seemed like he forgot he had to finish the series until about half way through so he crammed it all together and didn't read back over it.