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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: WereElephant on February 22, 2018, 04:46:04 PM
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As of the end Skin Game (and presumably into the beginning of Peace Talks - I haven't read the released chapter), six known entities have the knowledge to perform the Darkhallow: Harry, Mavra, Cowl, Evil Bob, Ivy, and Lasciel. I'm assuming Grevane is completely dead and not returning. Also assuming that Kemmler is staying dead. Think we'll see someone successfully pull it off?
I doubt it will be Harry. He's already gone down the Winter Knight path for power, and isn't overly thrilled with the consequences.
Mavra might not be interested in it. Her desire for the Word of Kemmler may have been to remove knowledge of her weaknesses from the world instead of a power grab. Her motivations are unknown to me at present.
I still think Cowl wants the power, but the circumstances haven't aligned for him to try again yet. He's a contender.
Evil Bob wouldn't (I think) be able to do it on his own behalf, but after Capiorcorpus went southbound, I imagine he's looking for new allies.
Ivy knows everything that's ever been written down, but I seriously doubt she'd ever use it.
Then there's Lasciel. IIRC, she knows everything that the shadow Lash knew (possibly knows?), so when Harry scanned each page of the Word for her to memorize before Grevane took the Word, a copy of that info went to the Fallen angel proper. As of Skin Game, Lasciel is evidently collaborating with Nicodemus, putting the knowledge of the Darkhallow in the hands of the Denarians. Would any of them use it?
Oh, I guess Anduriel might have already known it, too. Master of Shadows, and all that...not definitely, but possible.
Unknown if others like the big players (Fae queens, Drakul, Dragons, non-Fallen Archangels, Outsiders) have any knowledge of it, but I'm guessing not.
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There was also a Hag in the Welcome to the Jungle comic that was trying to perform a "mini-darkhallow", so she was at least aware of the underlying mechanics of one.
Why doesn't cowl do the darkhallow thing on a remote island or in the middle of the sahara desert or something...same with hag. just a question that's been bothering me...
Cause you need people around to fuel the fire. :) Had Cowl been successful, his ascension would have exterminated every source of life for several miles--and the more who died, the more elevated he would have become. Think of them as a big old batch of human sacrifices.
The hag's ritual was a far more primitive version of Kemmler's rite, and wouldn't have done nearly as much for her as the Darkhallow would have for Cowl--but it still would have sparked off massive violence, plague, ill-fortune and general chaos for miles all around.
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For me to use a Dark Hallow again would kind of be a let down. I understand it is a powerful spell that is also simple that can have huge benefits to the caster, but it feels played out. Counting the Dark Hallow in Jungle, the one in Dead Beat and the one in Ghost Story another use would make 4. That's a lot even considering Jim likes to come back to things, (warehouse by the water, Dark Hallow, worn dollar bills)
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What Darkhallow in GS?
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What Corpsetaker did to all of the spirits that Harry brought towards the end. She/he ate all the spirits to gain their power. I cannot recall if it was called a Dark Hallow or not, but when I first read it that is what it screamed out to me.
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What Corpsetaker did to all of the spirits that Harry brought towards the end. She/he ate all the spirits to gain their power. I cannot recall if it was called a Dark Hallow or not, but when I first read it that is what it screamed out to me.
Ah, fair enough. It was never referred to as a Darkhallow, but I can definitely see the similarities. The only differences are very vague and center aroudn the ill-defined question of What Corpsetaker actually /was/ at the end there. Evidence was that she was more than just a typical ghost, more likely a disembodied Spirit/Soul just like Harry.
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My theory is that a BCV or a necromancer will use a version of the dark hollow, to consume most if not all the remaining elders of the BCV. The concentration of the power in the elders could create something very dangerous.
It is said that the BCV were created by the scion of Drakul, Dracula. Drakul is said to be an inhuman abomination trapped in human shape. The ritual was said to be a failure. If the BCV was an attempt to tap into the same power that Drakul does, then a concentration of the BCV energy could be used against or for Drakul.
Drakul is an increadibly powerful entity, in the coming conflict, he would be a powerful ally or enemy. There was a theory he might be an old one or outsider that has been bound in some manner.
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old dark hallow is powerful okay but if you want to up the ante you gonna need to pull dark hallow on demon reach thus its hard to pull it off again
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Say he summons the spirits for a dark hollow onto demon reach, contain it, then release it at a specific target.
Is it possible to force an Ascension ritual on another, at least an improper one, fill another being with enough unstable power to harm them. We know immortals feed on such power, so is it possible to poison them.
Imagine Harry pouring the power and inmates into a single being. If it did not destroy them, could he use it to bind and trap the bring then!
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Elaine Kumori might also know, since she helped Cristos Cowl set it up.
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Ah, fair enough. It was never referred to as a Darkhallow, but I can definitely see the similarities. The only differences are very vague and center aroudn the ill-defined question of What Corpsetaker actually /was/ at the end there. Evidence was that she was more than just a typical ghost, more likely a disembodied Spirit/Soul just like Harry.
It is most likely the primitive version of the darkhallow. Remember that in book 7, it is mentioned that Kemmler is famous due to his ability to devour ghost and spirits to empower his magic. It is mentioned that this ability gave Kemmler enough strength to defy the white council. We know this must be before Kemmler casted the darkhallow, because we know Kemmler is thwarted when he try casting it.
As a matter of fact, book 7 also mentioned that the darkhallow is basically devouring a lot of ghosts at once, which is why corpsetaker brings the exibit of native American artifacts to Chicago. The darkhallow devours magic, but because it is based on Necromancy, the magic to control dead things, ghosts and spirits are the medium whereby life and magic are to be devoured, because necromancy grants power over ghosts instead of raw magical power.
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The dark hollow ritual is a necromancy based Ascension ritual, a way for a mortal to become immortal. There are likely different Ascension ritual depending on the style of magic, and sources of power. I wonder if demon reach allows for a temporary version of an Ascension ritual, which allow him to channel the power of the inmates.
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The dark hollow ritual is a necromancy based Ascension ritual, a way for a mortal to become immortal. There are likely different Ascension ritual depending on the style of magic, and sources of power. I wonder if demon reach allows for a temporary version of an Ascension ritual, which allow him to channel the power of the inmates.
In Theory, there should be other types of ascention ritual. But there is no mention of say, a fire mage who become a fire god by devouring a volcano or a star. All the mortals who ascended to become immortal, all that we know of anyway, done it via either the faith rute or the human sacrifice rute, which is closer to the school of necromancy than any other arcane discipline.
I suppose devouring natural elemental energies of the heaven and the earth like you see in Xianxia and Xuanhuan novels is not a viable path of power in the dresdenverse.
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In Theory, there should be other types of ascention ritual. But there is no mention of say, a fire mage who become a fire god by devouring a volcano or a star. All the mortals who ascended to become immortal, all that we know of anyway, done it via either the faith rute or the human sacrifice rute, which is closer to the school of necromancy than any other arcane discipline.
I suppose devouring natural elemental energies of the heaven and the earth like you see in Xianxia and Xuanhuan novels is not a viable path of power in the dresdenverse.
I wouldn't limit the sacrifice category to just "human" sacrifice. It seems highly likely that gods were sacrificed as well.
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I wouldn't limit the sacrifice category to just "human" sacrifice. It seems highly likely that gods were sacrificed as well.
Definitely possible. Immortals stealing bits and pieces of each other's mantle during Halloween is a good indicator that such a thing is possible. The fact that Hecate's power has been split into 6 and become the 6 queens of faeries are another example.
However, as far as we can tell, all those things are done via the power of another immortal. Only a fellow immortal can steal bits of an immortal's mantle during Halloween, and I doubt it is a mortal wizard who split Hecate's mantle into 6 and form the courts of the fae.
Not even Merlin could sacrifice and drain divine entities for power, otherwise he would have done it instead of imprisoning them at Demonreach.
So far, such a feat like sacrificing a god seem to be beyond the scope of human wizardry. Kemmler's ability to devour ghosts is already Heaven defying. for a human mortal, trying to devour a god is like an ant trying to eat an elephant in one bite.
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What about potentially sacrificing/consuming spirits like elementals, nature based entities or even genus loci?
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Definitely possible. Immortals stealing bits and pieces of each other's mantle during Halloween is a good indicator that such a thing is possible. The fact that Hecate's power has been split into 6 and become the 6 queens of faeries are another example.
However, as far as we can tell, all those things are done via the power of another immortal. Only a fellow immortal can steal bits of an immortal's mantle during Halloween, and I doubt it is a mortal wizard who split Hecate's mantle into 6 and form the courts of the fae.
Not even Merlin could sacrifice and drain divine entities for power, otherwise he would have done it instead of imprisoning them at Demonreach.
So far, such a feat like sacrificing a god seem to be beyond the scope of human wizardry. Kemmler's ability to devour ghosts is already Heaven defying. for a human mortal, trying to devour a god is like an ant trying to eat an elephant in one bite.
Except the Darkhallow itself can steal the power of an immortal. I think there are probably other methods as well.
As for Merlin... You are what you eat. Methinks he wouldn't have wanted to be the things in the Well, so eating them wouldn't be an option.
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Except the Darkhallow itself can steal the power of an immortal. I think there are probably other methods as well.
As for Merlin... You are what you eat. Methinks he wouldn't have wanted to be the things in the Well, so eating them wouldn't be an option.
I wonder if you did it while in possession of the Blackstaff it would give you the power while filtering the negative influence?
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Except the Darkhallow itself can steal the power of an immortal. I think there are probably other methods as well.
As for Merlin... You are what you eat. Methinks he wouldn't have wanted to be the things in the Well, so eating them wouldn't be an option.
A wizard who manage to ascent to immortality using the darkhallow most likely could steal powers from other immortals during Halloween, but the wizard have to ascend first before he can do that. The darkhallow itself cannot steal power from another immortal while the wizard casting it is still mortal.
In book 7 for example. The darkhallow could devour those ghosts and spirits summon by the Urlking and the wild hunt, but I doubt Urlking's personal power will be drained away by the darkhallow even if the casting is completed successfully. If the darkhallow can do that, it is a threat to the Urlking. Urlking wont be so nice to those kemmlerites if that is the case. He would have attacked grevane and cowl instead of hosting the wild hunt.
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What about potentially sacrificing/consuming spirits like elementals, nature based entities or even genus loci?
If you ask me, I am convinced it is possible. However, we have no confirmation about the viability of such a method. We know the darkhallow definitely could do it. We know being worshipped by many people for a long time could work as well, though we don't know the details as well as we know the darkhallow. Human sacrifice could work too. We saw the stone table as evidence.
Devouring gods? Devouring elementals and genus Loci? It is only a theory for now, though personally I believe it is possible. Looking at kemmler's way of duing things. A fire mage who wanted to ascend to fire god would first have to learn how to devour heat energy to empower his magic. Not wielding it or control it or shape it, but devouring fire magical energies to strengthen himself. The wizard almost have to be able to absorb energies like a freaking Dao cultivator.
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I wonder if you did it while in possession of the Blackstaff it would give you the power while filtering the negative influence?
I doubt it, but that's mostly because of my own preconceived notions on the Sidhe. I think the stone table is their method of absorbing other deities' power through ritualistic sacrifice, but it has to be used carefully, because restrictions come along with that power (hence why the Sidhe are so bound by rules).
If they had a tool or method that got around that, then they'd have used it.
But I might be wrong, which makes my argument moot.
A wizard who manage to ascent to immortality using the darkhallow most likely could steal powers from other immortals during Halloween, but the wizard have to ascend first before he can do that. The darkhallow itself cannot steal power from another immortal while the wizard casting it is still mortal.
In book 7 for example. The darkhallow could devour those ghosts and spirits summon by the Urlking and the wild hunt, but I doubt Urlking's personal power will be drained away by the darkhallow even if the casting is completed successfully. If the darkhallow can do that, it is a threat to the Urlking. Urlking wont be so nice to those kemmlerites if that is the case. He would have attacked grevane and cowl instead of hosting the wild hunt.
Actually, I believe there's WoJ that the Erlking would have died as well. He was a target as well. (Sorry, don't have time to go find it on the new site)
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I doubt it, but that's mostly because of my own preconceived notions on the Sidhe. I think the stone table is their method of absorbing other deities' power through ritualistic sacrifice, but it has to be used carefully, because restrictions come along with that power (hence why the Sidhe are so bound by rules).
If they had a tool or method that got around that, then they'd have used it.
But I might be wrong, which makes my argument moot.
My understanding of the Stone Table is that it acts as a sort of a Filter to get them around the whole "You Are What You Eat" thing. Normally, if you eat a bunch of Death you'd become a DeathGod, etc. For example, we have WOJ (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,1842.msg40622.html#msg40622)that the Stone Table would have transferred the Energy of the Knight Mantle to the opposite court, as compared to trying to just take and Hold the mantle of the opposite Nature and/or hold both.
Also, I think it's worth keeping in mind that the Stone Table is the primary (or maybe just most efficient) method used by the Summer and Winter Courts, specifically. The Wylde do things their own way(s); for example the Erlking apparently does it a bit more directly (Im assuming as part of his Hunt nature)
Actually, I believe there's WoJ that the Erlking would have died as well. He was a target as well. (Sorry, don't have time to go find it on the new site)
Im fairly confident that there is not, mostly because I recall arguing the opposite for quite some time. But its possible I was arguing differing interpretations of some specific WOJ. I maintained that by all accounts the Hunt (or at least the more physical part Thomas Joined) continued unimpeded through the night, and if the Erlking had been trapped in that spinning vortex and nearly eaten by Kemmlerites, his conversation with Harry afterward would have gone differently (or at least mentioned that Debt as part of his reasoning for letting Harry Live). The Darkhallow was eating /Spirits/ not physical beings, and I strongly believe that any Fairy (from Erlking down to Toot and LED) have enough innate NN travel ability to step across and avoid the Magic Vacuum Fallout. But I dont think we could find anything definitive.
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My understanding of the Stone Table is that it acts as a sort of a Filter to get them around the whole "You Are What You Eat" thing. Normally, if you eat a bunch of Death you'd become a DeathGod, etc. For example, we have WOJ (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,1842.msg40622.html#msg40622)that the Stone Table would have transferred the Energy of the Knight Mantle to the opposite court, as compared to trying to just take and Hold the mantle of the opposite Nature and/or hold both.
I hadn't heard that before, but it makes sense to me. Does this mean that when, for example, Lloyd Slate was killed on the Stone Table, his Winter Knight's Mantle was transferred back to Winter and Mab as pure power, which Mab reshaped back into a Mantle? Or did it not do that because it was Winter Power going to Winter?
I maintained that by all accounts the Hunt (or at least the more physical part Thomas Joined) continued unimpeded through the night, and if the Erlking had been trapped in that spinning vortex and nearly eaten by Kemmlerites, his conversation with Harry afterward would have gone differently (or at least mentioned that Debt as part of his reasoning for letting Harry Live). The Darkhallow was eating /Spirits/ not physical beings, and I strongly believe that any Fairy (from Erlking down to Toot and LED) have enough innate NN travel ability to step across and avoid the Magic Vacuum Fallout. But I dont think we could find anything definitive.
For what it's worth, that was my reading as well; the Darkhallow was eating the spirits that were conjured up by the Wild Hunt's presence, not necessarily the Wild Hunt itself, as far as I could tell from the book. I think the Erlking being in danger may have been if he was caught in the backlash and subsequently consumed.
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I hadn't heard that before, but it makes sense to me. Does this mean that when, for example, Lloyd Slate was killed on the Stone Table, his Winter Knight's Mantle was transferred back to Winter and Mab as pure power, which Mab reshaped back into a Mantle? Or did it not do that because it was Winter Power going to Winter?
So, that's actually a point of some discussion. By everything we learned about the Mantle during SK, the Stone Table should not have been required to pass the Knight Mantle; either court can make a new get a Knight all year long regardless of who's season it is to have the Table, and most Knights die in combat with their opposite rather than being sacrificed by their own Queen. IN SK they only needed the table to enact the Cross-Court transfer.
However, some have proposed that Mab used the Table to Purify the Power of the Winter Knight Mantle of any potential Nemfection, given how close Slate was working with both Maeve and Aurora. If the theory holds, it would mean that she was protecting herself, she was sacrificing the Power back to Herself and re-forming the Mantle, like reinstalling the OS to clear out a computer Virus (or some more appropriate metaphor).
For what it's worth, that was my reading as well; the Darkhallow was eating the spirits that were conjured up by the Wild Hunt's presence, not necessarily the Wild Hunt itself, as far as I could tell from the book. I think the Erlking being in danger may have been if he was caught in the backlash and subsequently consumed.
This was the point that I ultimately had to concede: Fae are just as much beings of Life Energy as mortals, so they should be subject to the Life-Vacuum fallout. Based on how the Guard are described to travel in back&forth across the NN boundary makes me think they'd be able to very easily avoid it, but the danger would not be truly Zero.
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2009 WoJ forum post:
5. cowl with darkhallow – really? just a bunch of spirits…
If he’d succeeded, he’d have had the collective power of all of those supernatural beings and then some. He’d have been clearly stronger than the Ladies, and a full-on equal to Mab. I mean, why do you think the Erlking was summoned as part of that ritual? Because that’s how the big E got so boss in the first place. :)
My interpretation of this is that a mortal completing the Darkhallow ritual with the Erlking present, or any other spirit trapped in the vortex, would absorb their power for themselves.
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I doubt it, but that's mostly because of my own preconceived notions on the Sidhe. I think the stone table is their method of absorbing other deities' power through ritualistic sacrifice, but it has to be used carefully, because restrictions come along with that power (hence why the Sidhe are so bound by rules).
If they had a tool or method that got around that, then they'd have used it.
But I might be wrong, which makes my argument moot.
Actually, I believe there's WoJ that the Erlking would have died as well. He was a target as well. (Sorry, don't have time to go find it on the new site)
That's true about the Sidhe. However the main difference is that Sidhe aren't mortal wizards.
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That's true about the Sidhe. However the main difference is that Sidhe aren't mortal wizards.
But mortal wizards can become Sidhe. How? By bathing in their power. For example, Molly can become a Sidhe Lady. She plays the roll, she does the things, then she becomes that which she surrounds herself. Ergo, mortal becoming immortal but being bound by the restrictions of the power they obtain.
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However, some have proposed that Mab used the Table to Purify the Power of the Winter Knight Mantle of any potential Nemfection, given how close Slate was working with both Maeve and Aurora. If the theory holds, it would mean that she was protecting herself, she was sacrificing the Power back to Herself and re-forming the Mantle, like reinstalling the OS to clear out a computer Virus (or some more appropriate metaphor).
Could also be that she changed the Mantle itself instead of just restoring the factory settings. Maybe she wanted Harry to be a different kind of Knight than what she'd had in the past, and tweaked some of the subroutines. Everyone keeps remarking that All Winter Knights Are X-Y-Z, and Harry's persisted for a couple of years now without become a full-time psycho. Something's either different about Harry, or something's different about the Mantle, and that Stone Table transfer makes me suspicious.
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When was the last time their was a winter knight who was also a wizard? has their ever been one? I think that my be a difference about why the Mantle hasn't changed Harry much. Also you could argue that since he isn't using it as much it isn't affecting him nearly as much either.
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When was the last time their was a winter knight who was also a wizard? has their ever been one? I think that my be a difference about why the Mantle hasn't changed Harry much. Also you could argue that since he isn't using it as much it isn't affecting him nearly as much either.
Harry mentions that he is not sure if there's ever been a wizard Knight or not. I strongly suspect there has been, if only because Mab Likes Powerful toys, though I doubt there's been a Soul fire-weilding Wizard-Knight before
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When was the last time their was a winter knight who was also a wizard? has their ever been one? I think that my be a difference about why the Mantle hasn't changed Harry much. Also you could argue that since he isn't using it as much it isn't affecting him nearly as much either.
I am certain that during the 1000 years of Mab's reign as winter Queen, there have never been a wizard knight before. Bob would have known about such a thing if it happened during the last 1000 years. Before Mab's reign though, that is quite another story.
Having a knight who is also a wizard is kind of adventurous. With soulfire, Uriel and freaking Ancient demonreach in the picture, I am convinced this is uncharted territory even for the Queen of Air and darkness.
If we see it that way, Mab's cautious attitude in the way she handle Harry completely via coercion is quite understandable. Harry is a powerful and dangerous weapon in her hands, but powerful and dangerous weapon tends to backlash on to it's wielder if the wielder is not adept enough.
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There seems to be a lot of strange co incidences. Harry is a wizard and winter knight. The winter court mans the outer gates, Harry as a star born has power over outsiders.
There is also the Blackstaff. A foci that allows a wizard to break the seven laws, which includes the one concerning outsiders. A foci believed to be the walking stick of mother winter, seeing as the winter knight mantle is a portion of the Queen power.
Demonreach a prison built to hold immortals and gods, the only place strong enough to potentially hold outsiders themselves. Some of the descriptions of inmates do seem similar to the description of outsiders. A source of dark energy, which the Blackstaff is tailor made to accept.
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There seems to be a lot of strange co incidences. Harry is a wizard and winter knight. The winter court mans the outer gates, Harry as a star born has power over outsiders.
There is also the Blackstaff. A foci that allows a wizard to break the seven laws, which includes the one concerning outsiders. A foci believed to be the walking stick of mother winter, seeing as the winter knight mantle is a portion of the Queen power.
Demonreach a prison built to hold immortals and gods, the only place strong enough to potentially hold outsiders themselves. Some of the descriptions of inmates do seem similar to the description of outsiders. A source of dark energy, which the Blackstaff is tailor made to accept.
The Winter Court is in charge of protecting reality from the Outsiders, and Harry as it appears was fated, as a mortal, to take up that same responsibility...
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The Winter Court is in charge of protecting reality from the Outsiders, and Harry as it appears was fated, as a mortal, to take up that same responsibility...
"Fated" seem to be too strong a word. "Potential" is more apt to describe the situation.
Harry is an exceptional talent, but he is not yet fulfill his true potential. He is a resource worth cultivating. A good seedling. Many parties wanted to recruit him. Lara, Nicodemous, Uriel, and maybe even HWWB wanted Harry on their side. In the end, Mab is the one who get him.
In this regard, the White council, at least Langtry's faction of the council, is the idiots. The council fail to appreciate talent.
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as for fea knight wizard in the past i bet original merlin is similar to harry worked as knight both as keeper of Excalibur and may be as winter or summer knight during the Arthur's reign thus harry might be tracking Merlin's steps in current time hell harry might be reincarnation of the Merlin it self with amnesia to keep himself from danger.
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Could also be that she changed the Mantle itself instead of just restoring the factory settings. Maybe she wanted Harry to be a different kind of Knight than what she'd had in the past, and tweaked some of the subroutines. Everyone keeps remarking that All Winter Knights Are X-Y-Z, and Harry's persisted for a couple of years now without become a full-time psycho. Something's either different about Harry, or something's different about the Mantle, and that Stone Table transfer makes me suspicious.
A couple of years isn't all that long, though. Especially when he was on life support for a big chunk of it.
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A couple of years isn't all that long, though. Especially when he was on life support for a big chunk of it.
Harry did come pretty close to becoming that sort of psycho in CD; but as he put it, He Chose to be different than that, and he intends to continue making that Choice. It strikes me as more like he is instantly a recovering addict and will have to continue to fight this pull for the rest of his tenure.
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That and he has many years of experience repressing sexual urges. Like pretty much the entire series.
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Could a Darkhallow be pulled off in the NeverNever?
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I have a strange idea, could this ritual be used as a weapon/trap? Some one forced or tricked into taking in the energy, just so it can be used against them.
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I have a strange idea, could this ritual be used as a weapon/trap? Some one forced or tricked into taking in the energy, just so it can be used against them.
I think so... If you wanted them to turn dark side, or a bad guy to become good (if they swallowed up a bunch of good power).
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I think so... If you wanted them to turn dark side, or a bad guy to become good (if they swallowed up a bunch of good power).
Im not sure there actually /is/ any straight "Good" Power, at least not in the sense of a Power that would Push you towards Goodness the way Dark & Violent powers push you toward a fall; Hell, literal Angels can go bad. I think that sort of think is supposed to go in one direction only.
Which makes sense since one of the WOJ definitions of "Good" in the DV is specifically that the Good Side respects Free Will, so by the nature of DV Goodness it would not Push you the way Evil does, since Evil doesnt respect your Right to Choose.
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Maybe you can trick someone into swallowing more power than they could handle, with the sheer amount of energy ripping them apart from the inside out.
Still a hell of a lot of people would have to die to pull it off. I'd rather just shoot them. (Assuming that would work.)
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I have a strange idea, could this ritual be used as a weapon/trap? Some one forced or tricked into taking in the energy, just so it can be used against them.
One way that you could apply this is that you could have them absorb power that stuck them with a purpose thus taking away their free will or ability to act without consequences. Think if you had Nic absorb the power of the summer lady, then he would beholden to fae laws and be limited in how he applied his powers.
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Reading this has made me wonder more about the evil (necromantic?) ley line coming out of Demonreach. Have we had a good description of the type of line it is? Is it necromantic? We know it is essentially the "body heat" or evil residue being put of by the prisoners. It seems to be a source of power that Harry could feast on ala "darkhallow" without actually killing anything, and hopefully without any sentience behind it to drive him crazy. But if that were possible than one would think that people would be comsuming the power from all kinds of ley lines to become more powerful, and we don't see that happening. Still, we know he was admonished by the Gatekeeper not to touch that power _yet_ so it will probably play a big role at some point...
Also, I think the roleplaying game paranet files expansion implies that Rasputin became the winter knight for a while. He wasn't a full fledge wizard, but a specialist like an ectomancer, only instead specializing in biomancy or something of that ilk. (I'm going off of memory here) It is implied that with the power of the mantle he might have managed to regenerate himself from being shot in the head. Not a full white council wizard becoming a winter knight, but something close...
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Im not sure there actually /is/ any straight "Good" Power, at least not in the sense of a Power that would Push you towards Goodness the way Dark & Violent powers push you toward a fall; Hell, literal Angels can go bad. I think that sort of think is supposed to go in one direction only.
Which makes sense since one of the WOJ definitions of "Good" in the DV is specifically that the Good Side respects Free Will, so by the nature of DV Goodness it would not Push you the way Evil does, since Evil doesnt respect your Right to Choose.
I see what you're saying but have a slight different look at it. It's likely true that someone like an Angel isn't going to trick someone into excepting a form of good/light energy. But a free willed person like Harry could for example force a Walker to absorb a great deal of light or good energy bringing about it's destruction, or turn it towards the light. I mean in theory anyways, I don't really know.
I do think there is good power, and evil power. Lets pretend that there was thousands of worshipers who believed in a "love deity" that spread peace, and love and it created a Mantle of sorts. If that Mantle was somehow transferred to Lord Raith, he would probably no longer be his evil self.
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It is believed a version of the hollow ritual will be used again. So it likely has similar preparations and requirements. So while the bad guy tries to finish his ritual, Harry does the original and feed that to him at the same time.
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My theory is that a BCV or a necromancer will use a version of the dark hollow, to consume most if not all the remaining elders of the BCV. The concentration of the power in the elders could create something very dangerous.
Would that even work? I'm honestly not sure.
Black Court are the real deal, the actual, true vampires. They're dead[/b]. I'm not sure a Darkhallow could consume them, since I'm not sure there's anything there to consume. It might be a little like trying to eat hunger. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that there's a connection or similarity between what a Darkhallow does and what's inside a Black vampire.
I could be wrong, though, IDR any word of JB on the matter.
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So, that's actually a point of some discussion. By everything we learned about the Mantle during SK, the Stone Table should not have been required to pass the Knight Mantle; either court can make a new get a Knight all year long regardless of who's season it is to have the Table, and most Knights die in combat with their opposite rather than being sacrificed by their own Queen. IN SK they only needed the table to enact the Cross-Court transfer.
I don't know that it is required, it may just be that Mab wanted to do it that way, to make Harry commit murder as part of his accession. It would be like her.
She may also have been doing something Unusual with this Knighting, as others have speculated.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/fe5bc5b2ef30796bc163eedb780dc46c/tenor.gif?itemid=5045787)
Pulls off a Darkhallow in the Fomor's realm...