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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Quantus on January 29, 2018, 03:27:06 PM
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Just finished an idle re-read of Cold Case, and there were a pair of moments that jumped out at me: In two instances, Molly made a decidedly un-Fae-like statement, and in both cases Mab Blinked. There are some characters that simply dont Blink in that way without something significant behind it. In this case I think Mab was surprised that Molly was actually, physically able to make the statements she did, now that she's a Sidhe. I suspect Mab is
concerned Curious about the implications of those statements, if to Molly's psychology if nothing else.
Here they were (bolding mine):
Molly: "I can't just leave him here alone."
Mab blinked once, as if digesting my words. "Why not?"
"Because...because it's not what decent people do."
"What has that to do with either of us?"
I shook my head. "No. I am not going to be like that."
Mab: "If you have an alternative, I would be more than willing to consider it."
Silence Stretched.
"I don't," I said quietly.
I opened the door and looked back at her. "I don't yet," I said, and I said it hard. "This isn't over."
Mab gave me the slow blink again. Then she inclined her head by a fraction of an inch, her expression pensive.
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Oh, Ms. Duck would be doing a Happy Dance right now.
Mab=Molly.
However with my reformed Mab/Murphy/Molly theory, there exists right now parallel worlds whereby 'our' Mab is historical Mab, Murphy, or Molly. So, her blinking is a reflection of one of these Mab's feeling the effects from Molly's utterances. There are causations and effects going off and our Mab, right then, is getting a feedback from some of the Mab's/herself in these parallel worlds. The Mab/Molly entities within the parallel worlds are giving this Mab a 'talking too' via the mantle. Molly's words are placing bindings on our Mab. :)
Our Mab now knows Molly WILL BE Mab in some 'shadow' if not this one if she is experiencing these bindings. She does after all, remain with him. And, I find it likely Mab will not stop considering alternatives just as Molly said, it isn't over.
"shadow' is a parallel world in future, past, present, or parallel via mortal choice.
For my theory, we need to observe if Murphy comes to a point in which she is placing 'bindings' on Mab.
Harry's talk with Murphy about a relationship together and setting sell together like the Titanic, full steam ahead. Murphy agreed.
There are others I've talked about before. Murphy often makes 'deals,' like telling Harry..."you will pay for this coffee." ETC
These deals almost sound as if there is a Mab overlaying Murphy or a genetic predisposition torward Murphy making deals.
These though are said without having Murphy with a "mantle" enforcing what is said is truth, but I think we may see in the end that some of Murphy's deals get enforced by Mab.
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Just finished an idle re-read of Cold Case, and there were a pair of moments that jumped out at me: In two instances, Molly made a decidedly un-Fae-like statement, and in both cases Mab Blinked. There are some characters that simply dont Blink in that way without something significant behind it. In this case I think Mab was surprised that Molly was actually, physically able to make the statements she did, now that she's a Sidhe. I suspect Mab is concerned Curious about the implications of those statements, if to Molly's psychology if nothing else.
Here they were (bolding mine):
Molly: "I can't just leave him here alone."
Mab blinked once, as if digesting my words. "Why not?"
"Because...because it's not what decent people do."
"What has that to do with either of us?"
I shook my head. "No. I am not going to be like that."
Mab: "If you have an alternative, I would be more than willing to consider it."
Silence Stretched.
"I don't," I said quietly.
I opened the door and looked back at her. "I don't yet," I said, and I said it hard. "This isn't over."
Mab gave me the slow blink again. Then she inclined her head by a fraction of an inch, her expression pensive.
Side note: I have not read Cold Case, so I don't know about the larger context.
It could be that the Winter Court has been so long without a humanizing presence that Mab is simply unprepared to hear it from one of the Fae. After Maeve, hearing the Winter Lady advocate with flat, direct statements on behalf of mortals (I assume from the quotes) would rock anyone back on their heels.
Or maybe Mab is simply considering that what Molly is saying may not just be right, but might have value.
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Or maybe Mab is just such an utter Bitch that the idea of acting in an even remotely decent manner is entirely foreign too her.
It probably felt like if someone came up to you one day and adamantly declares that the sky is Orange. Just kinda double-take and "What?" because that statement just wrong.
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Or maybe Mab is just such an utter Bitch that the idea of acting in an even remotely decent manner is entirely foreign too her.
It probably felt like if someone came up to you one day and adamantly declares that the sky is Orange. Just kinda double-take and "What?" because that statement just wrong.
Pretty much. Or at least, unfathomable for a fae of the Winter Court to do that.
Note also that under the most strict readings of "truth" that some people use here, Molly actually lied. She said she couldn't do a thing, when she very much could. It'd be easy, all she would have to do is walk away. She just didn't want to.
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Pretty much. Or at least, unfathomable for a fae of the Winter Court to do that.
Note also that under the most strict readings of "truth" that some people use here, Molly actually lied. She said she couldn't do a thing, when she very much could. It'd be easy, all she would have to do is walk away. She just didn't want to.
Not really. Molly could not do it and if she did she wouldn't be Molly anymore.
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Not really. Molly could not do it and if she did she wouldn't be Molly anymore.
Why not? There may be consequences if you like (Molly would not be herself any more) but she could do it. It's easy. Certainly nothing physical or metaphysical stopping her from doing it.
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Why not? There may be consequences if you like (Molly would not be herself any more) but she could do it. It's easy. Certainly nothing physical or metaphysical stopping her from doing it.
I do not think the fae are bound to a very strict literal interpretation of their words when what they say is a very well establisched saying. Molly can not bring herself do such a thing because she wants to be a decent person.
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Yeah, that's why I said under the most strict readings. The same kind of readings that say that when Mab talks about stars falling before she breaks her word, it's not just her being poetic, but making literal prophecy.
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I wouldn't say a prophecy exactly. IMO it's more a statement that if Mab fails to keep her word it means that she's failed, the Gates have been broken, and the stars are literally falling from the sky, Apocalypse Now.
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Or maybe Mab is just such an utter Bitch that the idea of acting in an even remotely decent manner is entirely foreign too her.
It probably felt like if someone came up to you one day and adamantly declares that the sky is Orange. Just kinda double-take and "What?" because that statement just wrong.
One interesting point is the question of whether Molly is herself now Sidhe. If so, the statement that she 'can't' just leave someone there is problematic, because of course they can, in the sense of physical ability. But at least at first glance, if Molly is now a Sidhe, she shouldn't have been able to utter that statement because it is factually false, and she knows it to be so.
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I disagree that it'd be a problem.
"I can't just leave him here alone." doesn't need to refer to a literal physical inability to move to be a true statement.
Following such a narrow understanding of their words is exactly what those tricksy faeries want.
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Remember Mab calling Bonnie a parasite? The literal interpretation is not necessary. Even worse I think the Sidhe can say anything as long as there is at least one interpretation of their words that is true.
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I'm more wondering if such statements in some sense can affect Winter Law, when uttered by one of the Queens.
That is, maybe from now on all Winter Fae are unable to abandon their vassals/allies harmed by their own mistakes.
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It could also work the other way around.
It's not so much a statement of her capabilities as it is a statement of her will. Her being unable to leave him there becomes fact because, as queen, she is declaring it so.
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I see this as Starborn Molly influencing the mantle from within, esp the first instance. The Mantle is overriding Molly, but there Molly is making a Stark Choice not to be what already is as far as the Queen and Lady are.
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It could also work the other way around.
It's not so much a statement of her capabilities as it is a statement of her will. Her being unable to leave him there becomes fact because, as queen, she is declaring it so.
I see this as Starborn Molly influencing the mantle from within, esp the first instance. The Mantle is overriding Molly, but there Molly is making a Stark Choice not to be what already is as far as the Queen and Lady are.
These could still be considered bindings placed on who Molly becomes. So, if there is a Molly that is Mab in some parallel world, or that is ourMab, then she is now bound by Molly's will and statement. We do actually see each statement fulfilled by Mab.
1). Ramirez isn't alone as Mab stays with him.
2). Mab is still considering a better way and is open to it. Likely, she hasn't even yet found it.
Consistent with my Amberverse/Dresdenverse theory, there is a Mab/Molly parallel world out there that is feeding back through the Mab mantle. And, regardless of who "our Mab" is, she is attuned to these alternate Mab's and affected by them.
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These could still be considered bindings placed on who Molly becomes. So, if there is a Molly that is Mab in some parallel world, or that is ourMab, then she is now bound by Molly's will and statement. We do actually see each statement fulfilled by Mab.
1). Ramirez isn't alone as Mab stays with him.
2). Mab is still considering a better way and is open to it. Likely, she hasn't even yet found it.
Consistent with my Amberverse/Dresdenverse theory, there is a Mab/Molly parallel world out there that is feeding back through the Mab mantle. And, regardless of who "our Mab" is, she is attuned to these alternate Mab's and affected by them.
I see no linear connection between my supposition and this.
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I see no reason to believe anyone that raidem thinks is Mab is, has ever been, or ever will be Mab, but that hasn't stopped him from inserting the theory into every discussion thread or making seven of them all revolving around that same theory.
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I see this as Starborn Molly influencing the mantle from within, esp the first instance. The Mantle is overriding Molly, but there Molly is making a Stark Choice not to be what already is as far as the Queen and Lady are.
But Molly isn't Starborn
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I see no linear connection between my supposition and this.
It's raidem. Rather than a linear connection you should be looking for a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey one.
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And you guys are dismissing the fact that mab fulfills exactly what Molly said. That is what is meant by the binding. Mab is fulfilling Molly's word's, her truths. Why is that?
I see no linear connection between my supposition and this.
Take a look at Mab's behavior. She fulfills the conditions that Molly set forth. She wasn't bound by them at first glance, except that is what she intended to do.
It's raidem. Rather than a linear connection you should be looking for a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey one.
Exactly. As viewed on a higher plane, it is a linear connection. Without the higher plane, it is as you described. :)
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I see no reason to believe anyone that raidem thinks is Mab is, has ever been, or ever will be Mab, but that hasn't stopped him from inserting the theory into every discussion thread or making seven of them all revolving around that same theory.
So Mr. Death just implied via this comment that: our Mab isn't our mab (historical figure), nor Molly will be mab, nor Murphy will be mab. And, besides these 3 figures, I've not entertained any others to be Mab.
Of course, there is a prior Mab that died near Hastings. And there was a Mab that participated in the Original Rite that established the Queens base of power via Stone Table. But my theories really don't go into them.
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And you guys are dismissing the fact that mab fulfills exactly what Molly said.
No, but i'd like to understand how you say this is? That is what is meant by the binding. Mab is fulfilling Molly's word's, her truths. Why is that?
...Say again? Molly as WL can make a decree that is binding to the Lady as Host/Lady.[quote
Take a look at Mab's behavior. She fulfills the conditions that Molly set forth. She wasn't bound by them at first glance, except that is what she intended to do.[/quote]Yea. That. Explain that.
Exactly. As viewed on a higher plane, it is a linear connection. Without the higher plane, it is as you described. :)
If you insist..
I see no reason to believe anyone that raidem thinks is Mab is, has ever been, or ever will be Mab, but that hasn't stopped him from inserting the theory into every discussion thread or making seven of them all revolving around that same theory.
actually I entirely agree with all those possibilities, just not his methods or conclusions getting there... Molly has Certainly been Mab, as has in her own way Murphy. But ours is not those things, nor likely will be.
[/quote]
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But Molly isn't Starborn
Prove it lol?
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You're the one who claims she is, the burden of proof is on you.
So no, I don't have to prove it lol.
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GOOGLE AUDIENCE: “Silly Dresden Files question. I remember in Cold Days the shenanigans regarding the origin of Demonreach. And can we expect more time shenanigans in future books?”
JB: “More time shenanigans? SIR, one of the Laws of Magic states that you cannot mess with time like that! OF COURSE, there will be more time shenanigans! I only established the seven Laws of Magic so I could have Dresden methodically break them one by one!”
Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey ones are my forte.
Yea. That. Explain that.
Jonas have you read the short story? I recall someone saying they hadn't read the short story. That may have been on Discord though.
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Huh. I hadn't seen that before. I had half thought that Cold Days WAS the time travel book, based on the temporal crap the bad guys did in the assault on DR. While that strongly implies it's still yet to come.
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Ooh, crap now I need to find which place I found it.
http://galleywampus.com/google-interview/
Oh, and I think it is Ms. Duck that is the poster. Actually, I found out that Ms. Duck has allowed J Wilbanks to use her articles at the site.
J Wilbanks
Reviewer and Columnist at Galleywampus
She has a cat.
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So Mr. Death just implied via this comment that: our Mab isn't our mab (historical figure), nor Molly will be mab, nor Murphy will be mab. And, besides these 3 figures, I've not entertained any others to be Mab.
Of course, there is a prior Mab that died near Hastings. And there was a Mab that participated in the Original Rite that established the Queens base of power via Stone Table. But my theories really don't go into them.
There was a prior Winter Queen who died near Hastings. Not a prior Mab. Just like Molly isn't Maeve and Sarissa isn't Aurora.
And please do not put words in my mouth; I was clearly talking about Molly and Murphy.
Frankly the sheer glut of threads all about the same thing is part of the reason I haven't participated in this section of the forums in weeks. Part of me is starting to regret putting my two cents into this one, now.
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I was wondering if Mab was the first Winter Queen?
No. Mab was not the first Mab.
Jim's words. Mab was not the first Mab.
And please do not put words in my mouth
I see no reason to believe anyone that raidem thinks is Mab is, has ever been, or ever will be Mab,
It stemmed from your suggestion/presumption as to who I think Mab is, has ever been, or ever will be. One clear part of the theory is that Mab is simply the historical one, not Mab, not Molly. That is the case where your presumption rubbed against my statement.
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Frankly the sheer glut of threads all about the same thing is part of the reason I haven't participated in this section of the forums in weeks. Part of me is starting to regret putting my two cents into this one, now.
I started to delete some of the Murphy related threads. Do you have suggestions you would have me delete?
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I started to delete some of the Murphy related threads. Do you have suggestions you would have me delete?
I haven't really been reading any of them enough to have developed a preference.
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You're the one who claims she is, the burden of proof is on you.
So no, I don't have to prove it lol.
No, you said, Molly isn't starborn, that's an affirmative statement, bring more than your disbelieve to the table.
I actually said 'I see this' as in my perspective, you acclaimed acritically she was not... You might wanna Lawyer up if your gonna try to speak legalese on my ass I tell you what :o lol
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Jonas have you read the short story? I recall someone saying they hadn't read the short story. That may have been on Discord though.
Molly's? yea only once but yea... why?
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No, you said, Molly isn't starborn, that's an affirmative statement, bring more than your disbelieve to the table.
I actually said 'I see this' as in my perspective, you acclaimed acritically she was not... You might wanna Lawyer up if your gonna try to speak legalese on my ass I tell you what :o lol
There was never any vague clue in the books or in woj or in the rpg or anywhere else Butcher even suggesting something that could remotely point to Molly being starborn so as far as a negative can be proven it is. :)
Jim Butcher will come with some time travel thing, he already did in cold days, but it will be subtle and it would be the very near past. Vadderung's words in Cold Days are an indication. Any theory that posulates time travel of years is most probably not true.
Any time travel theory that postulates decades or centuries of time travel is plain crazy
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There was never any vague clue in the books or in woj or in the rpg or anywhere else Butcher even suggesting something that could remotely point to Molly being starborn so as far as a negative can be proven it is. :)
That proves only your own sight on what is there. Molly's worth has been alluded to in multiple ways the most direct is how she was born, after being part of some unknown plot/ritual saved by the love of a good man, ect. I described BOTH Harry and Molly if you caught that. The alignment that makes a Starborn might be shown loosely right there...
Jim Butcher will come with some time travel thing, he already did in cold days, but it will be subtle and it would be the very near past. Vadderung's words in Cold Days are an indication. Any theory that posulates time travel of years is most probably not true.
Ermm.. you know if GP was the first choice then the eventual time travel will go back from this point in time vaguely 13 years sooo, that's actually about given here.
Any time travel theory that postulates decades or centuries of time travel is plain crazy
get ready for a crazy F'n book then.
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GOOGLE AUDIENCE: “Silly Dresden Files question. I remember in Cold Days the shenanigans regarding the origin of Demonreach. And can we expect more time shenanigans in future books?”
JB: “More time shenanigans? SIR, one of the Laws of Magic states that you cannot mess with time like that! OF COURSE, there will be more time shenanigans! I only established the seven Laws of Magic so I could have Dresden methodically break them one by one!”
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That proves only your own sight on what is there. Molly's worth has been alluded to in multiple ways the most direct is how she was born, after being part of some unknown plot/ritual saved by the love of a good man, ect.
Her worth certainly but that has nothing to do with being starborn. We have no clues about that. Nothing special about her time or place of birth for example.
I described BOTH Harry and Molly if you caught that. The alignment that makes a Starborn might be shown loosely right there...
Ermm.. you know if GP was the first choice then the eventual time travel will go back from this point in time vaguely 13 years sooo, that's actually about given here.
get ready for a crazy F'n book then.
Not really. The choice was thirteen years ago but after that both worlds went their own way and the people on both worlds are different peoples with different histories. Mirror Mirror is more like traveling to alternative worlds, not time travel as such.
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Jumping back to the boundaries on Fae and the limits of Literal requirements on statements to be true: We know that their statements do not have to be perfectly literal or perfectly true.
1) They can be honestly Incorrect, as with the infamous "She Lies" bit at the end of GS
2) They can be open to degrees interpretation, as when various sidhe have called Lea the 2nd most powerful Winter fae next to Mab, despite the existence of Mother Winter
3) I contend they can also be wildly skewed by perspective (which may no really be district from #1). My example here is when Lea described Mab as being on par with an Archangel; by all objective measures (and WOJ) we have this is simply not correct, but if you add on the sort of Absolute Power Mab holds over all Fae, between her Will translating to Winter Law and her sharing the ability to Draft all the Wyld-fae when necessary. To a fae there is a lot less of a gap between the Mab and an Archangel than there might be to something outside of her Authority.
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No, you said, Molly isn't starborn, that's an affirmative statement, bring more than your disbelieve to the table.
I actually said 'I see this' as in my perspective, you acclaimed acritically she was not... You might wanna Lawyer up if your gonna try to speak legalese on my ass I tell you what :o lol
"I see this" as your perspective does not absolve you from needing to support it. And no, it's a negative statement, since I am arguing against what you affirmed, and have yet to provide any evidence to back up aside from her being the daughter of Michael and Charity. So it's not really legalese lol You made the statement "Molly is Starborn." Back it up. Until you do, I get to default to "No she isn't."
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I'm on pregrine side on starborn issue. I wonder though if proximity to Harry is making his allies mini starborn.
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I'm on pregrine side on starborn issue. I wonder though if proximity to Harry is making his allies mini starborn.
That would make Susan and Lucio super starborn.
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Not really. They were only briefly with him throughout the series. That is what I mean by proximity.
Proximity over time, over important events.
Wheel of time.
There is a series, I forget exactly, that the main character does this to his allies. Author died. I think sanderson finished the series.
This actually makes Murphy and Thomas, aside from mister and mouse and Bob some of the strongest ministarborn.
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Not really. They were only briefly with him throughout the series. That is what I mean by proximity.
Proximity over time, over important events.
Wheel of time.
There is a series, I forget exactly, that the main character does this to his allies. Author died. I think sanderson finished the series.
This actually makes Murphy and Thomas, aside from mister and mouse and Bob some of the strongest ministarborn.
It is easy to confuse cause and result if you are too obsessed with time travel. Harry is so powerful because of his association with MSTR
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All that is of course assuming a property of the Starborn that nobody in the know about the Starborn has ever alluded to in any manner, and for which there has been no evidence or suggestion of the possibility in the books.
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All that is of course assuming a property of the Starborn that nobody in the know about the Starborn has ever alluded to in any manner, and for which there has been no evidence or suggestion of the possibility in the books.
No worry. It will all be explained in the prequel brought to us by the time traveling future Jim Butcher to be read before the series started. You have read it, you will remember later.
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Her worth certainly but that has nothing to do with being starborn. We have no clues about that. Nothing special about her time or place of birth for example.
Not really. The choice was thirteen years ago but after that both worlds went their own way and the people on both worlds are different peoples with different histories. Mirror Mirror is more like traveling to alternative worlds, not time travel as such.
Multiverse. in a multiverse space and tiem are directly related and worlds are in parallel the closer they are to each other in results. ergo any space travel is immediately time travel. (oh, and yea, there will be years of time travel) Sorry, except... i'm not ;D
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"I see this" as your perspective does not absolve you from needing to support it. And no, it's a negative statement, since I am arguing against what you affirmed, and have yet to provide any evidence to back up aside from her being the daughter of Michael and Charity. So it's not really legalese lol You made the statement "Molly is Starborn." Back it up. Until you do, I get to default to "No she isn't."
I see this as an effect of Molly being starborn.
YOU said "Molly isn't starborn" quit trying to split Hairs because I really don't care to prove anything to people who do that.
Your default is unprovable, your attitude is untenable and overall your wrong anyway i'm just not going to bother with someone who thinks this way.
I set a provisional, you set an affirmative negative as a reply. You don't understand debating, good bye.
(ohhh and Mollly is a Starborn ;) have a swell day)
*the method of inferring a cause by studying the direct effects is kinda the basis of theory. the proof is sheerly in the results. i.e. Molly Gainsaying Fae nature itself.
Once again, this is exactly how we do not behave here. If you can not make your point without a "you" statement regarding the thoughts of fellow forum members, you have not made a point, you have made an attack.
Go read the precepts, people.
Blaze, as Mod.
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It does seem though that the wild hunt wanted Harry to lead it for a time. Kringle, or erlking, go so far as to imply that whatever he uses his power to do will grace the wild hunt. He overthrew sharkface mental assault and granted starborn resistance to the wild hunt. I believe it was this quality that erlking and kringle wanted to bestow upon the hunt. It gave them more resistance and attack against outsiders.
Another point, vadderung continually suggests to Harry that he has allies. Much of it is that he doesn't have to go solo and take risks that would be very bad/stupid without them. A side note, not necessarily related to starborn, in amber a mortal without powers that walks in the shadows with Merlin, a amberite/chaosian, can be empowered by their proximity to this person while they engage in these magical endeavors. This means that over time Murphy will acquire magical abilities via travel in the nevernever and arctis tor, exposure to wild hunt, exposure to other magical energies, fights with supernatural creatures, etc.
I don't think that Molly is a starborn herself. I could see though that she is being empowered by Harry starborn power. And that she is empowering others in a limited fashioned.
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I like the bit about mister being starborn and that he bestows it on Harry via proximity :)
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Keep it civil y'all. If you can't respect another poster's perspective, stop posting.
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I agree with Jonas on the nature of travel between parallel worlds and time travel. I think they are in a multiverse of parallel worlds that occur in past, present, and future.
Mirror mirror is a present to present situation, but the overall structure is one that allows other combinations. This is where it is partly correct to say time travel is involved as it is a present, present, case to mirror parallel world.
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So if I can parse the word salad you threw up there, and skipping past the ad hominem attacks, your evidence to support Molly being a Starborn is that she could go against Fae nature? The Fae nature that she could go against because she's a Starborn?
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The same fae nature that let Maeve ignore her job for more than a century?
Who said that what Molly said was against her fae nature?
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My strongest argument against Molly being starborn is the rarity of their appearance. My strongest argument for her being starborn is that the author has spent alot of time building her significance.
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Harry being a Starborn appears to have gained the interest of several supernatural factions, all of them wanting to recruit him or destroy him.
Molly only seems to have gained the interest of the Winter Court, and the interest that the Fomor show later is because she was actively fighting them.
Being significant doesn't mean she's a starborn. Her significance is from being Harry's apprentice, then being a wizard, then being the Winter Lady.
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Everyone in the books is important enough without being starborn--even Harry (though his effect on events may or may not be a direct result of his starborn nature).
If you wanted to sell me on the idea that being around and fighting alongside Harry has made them greater than they were (without specifically becoming starborn in some fashion, miniature or otherwise), then I'd agree. It's the same as with Tavi in the Codex Alera; he inspired his Legions by surviving things he shouldn't have, by using what he had to devastating effect, and by preserving the lives of those around him as best he could. As a result, the First Aleran became better, pound for pound, than any of the other legions we see (training and combat experience obviously playing a role here).
Dresden doesn't have a legion; he has friends. He inspires them, and leads them to be more than they were. He shares wisdom, knowledge, and experience with them. As a result, many of the events play out in such a way that their impact is far greater on the grand scale than they would be without Harry.
Also, don't forget that Fae fealty rules might apply; by bringing his friends with him, they become his tools, like the Alphas in Summer Knight. As such, when one of them changes events in such a way that indicates starborn-ness, it's more an extension of Harry than anyone else individually. Murphy killing Maeve is only possible because the starborn brings her there, for example; ditto for Molly's ascension.
Also, unless and until we see literally anyone other than Harry command power over Outsiders (without the use of a ritual designed to summon them)—the one trait we know for a fact that starborn have—as far as I'm concerned, Harry is the only one in canon.
WOJ implies Elaine is one, but I'll believe it when I see it. As far as I can tell, she's not been much of a fulcrum for any events, except for betraying Aurora at a critical moment.
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Remember Mab calling Bonnie a parasite? The literal interpretation is not necessary. Even worse I think the Sidhe can say anything as long as there is at least one interpretation of their words that is true.
Bonnie was a parasite, by the dictionary definition. Mab's statement was literally true.