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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Mpol on December 17, 2017, 05:11:45 AM
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Just reading up on WoJ, great reading by the way.
It is mentioned by Jim we will see Faith again in an event that kicks off the final trilogy...
Just had a thought, what if Faith is Kumori? Could there be a valid connection between the two? Kumori is young... but quite powerful. How many years prior did Welcome To The Jungle happen before Dead Beat? 6, maybe 7? Would this make Faith still very young? And if it is Faith, why the name Kumori?
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Faith is one of the suspects for Kumori. Restoration of Faith occurred 2 to 3 years prior to SF. So, Faith would be almost 20 by the time of DB. My personal opinion is that Faith is Elaine. But, there are other theories....
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You mean kumori is Elaine.
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You mean kumori is Elaine.
Not your theory. There is no time travel in it.
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Raidem was proofreading my post. I meant Kumori is Elaine. Sorry, typing whilework-tired, sleep-deprived, and drinking wine does not make for accuracy. Thanks for autocorrect, Raidem.
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Not your theory. There is no time travel in it.
He was just pointing out a mistake, and was correct.
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He was just pointing out a mistake, and was correct.
Ah, I trust he will bring us his Kumori time travel theory later ;D
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Ah, I trust he will bring us his Kumori time travel theory later ;D
Actually the theory has been made, I believe. I don't know if he came up with it, or I came up with it, or someone else did.
I believe the theory was Kumori is Maggie from the future... It actually could make sense if she, or Harry (if he were Cowl) started playing around with time travel to alter the past to prevent something really bad from happening in the future. I think one of the things of evidence (I'm fuzzy on this and may be making it up in my own head) was that Cowl/Kumori repaired little Chicago from blowing Harry's head off, as that has never been explained.
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Actually the theory has been made, I believe. I don't know if he came up with it, or I came up with it, or someone else did.
I believe the theory was Kumori is Maggie from the future... It actually could make sense if she, or Harry (if he were Cowl) started playing around with time travel to alter the past to prevent something really bad from happening in the future. I think one of the things of evidence (I'm fuzzy on this and may be making it up in my own head) was that Cowl/Kumori repaired little Chicago from blowing Harry's head off, as that has never been explained.
:-)
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Nah, Kumori is actually Molly from an aborted timeline that never became Winter Lady. Instead she travelled back to Harry's youth to become his childhood Sweetheart Elaine, and following the events of DB travelled back even furthur, meeting Malcolm and becoming Maggie Sr.
Somehow.
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My time traveling angle with kumori is that she is Maggie Sr timehopping into different times, alternate realities with cowl. So, kumori would stumble upon in one of these forays a future that gives her hope, desire to turn against her master.
It also may be why her gem she left to Harry will have more relevance later. Harry once he starts his time and dimension hopping will be using the map of the nevernever to find important
Links that can increase his chance of success.
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Nah, Kumori is actually Molly from an aborted timeline that never became Winter Lady. Instead she travelled back to Harry's youth to become his childhood Sweetheart Elaine, and following the events of DB travelled back even furthur, meeting Malcolm and becoming Maggie Sr.
Somehow.
I alwyas saw Elaine as a more lithe, tall lady. Molly is written like. a built likr Charity character.
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Kumori is Lydia who is the time travelling daughter of time travelling Molly and time travelling Marcone.
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That is unlikely. Molly has better taste; that is why she favors Harry.
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Lydia was being sacrificed at the masquerade that cowl and kumori was attending.
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And that too. Thanks Raidem. :)
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Lydia was being sacrificed at the masquerade that cowl and kumori was attending.
That sucks being sacrificed by your time traveling self ;D
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Yeah, self-hatred is a terrible thing.
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That sucks being sacrificed by your time traveling self ;D
I'm not entertaining that idea in the slightest. However if time travel was going on, she had already experienced that situation, and had been saved. If she kept the time line in tact, she would know that she wasn't going to die, and therefor wasn't putting herself at risk. Actually she would be saving herself because if she prevented the event from happening she'd be altering the future, dramatically altering her future self.
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But that assumes a stable-time-loop is in effect, rather than a multiverse of Divergent Timelines like in the Dresdenverse
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Somewhere Raidem's ears are twitching and he senses that words "time travel" being used.
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But that assumes a stable-time-loop is in effect, rather than a multiverse of Divergent Timelines like in the Dresdenverse
1. Either an error on Jim's part or
2. You can alter time without creating an alternate reality.
On one hand you have realities splintering off from events, making time travel basically meaningless, and on the other you have the White Council against time travel, and evidence that you can alter the time line you're in.
I guess the situation can be that you alter the time you're in, while the original time line splinters off, and you aren't in that time line... Well you would be, but the one who altered the time wouldn't be?
(http://www.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/files/styles/xlarge/public/article_images/2015/01/mindblown-rs.gif)
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I need some temporal dramamine.
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You know, one of the biggest problems or at least one of the issues for my "Marcone is Harry and Murphy's son theory" is the durability of Marcone's birth in multiple alternate realities. They'd require that both Harry and Murphy survive in many different realities. And, that they have some relationship where they get it on and conceive of Marcone. And that, in some fashion involving time travel, Marcone is placed in a contemporary timeline of his parents. The Dresdenverse would then further allow for 'safe' paradoxes, contradictions that arise from event interactions between out of linear sequence actions made by father, son, mother. We do know though that Marcone and Harry often directly impact life/death of the other. Marcone even mentions poking Fate in the eye I think in Dead Beat when he helps save Harry from Corpsetaker after Gard had mentioned it was Harry's fate to die that day.
This theory about Marcone being descended from both Harry and Murphy has some but limited circumstantial evidence but it mainly exists as an artisticly desired plot point on my part.
As to the splinters, time loops, and divergent timelines, I think they can all be included in the Dresdenverse.
1) There is free will choice that causes changes in the timeline. Much evidence in the form of WOJ and spoilers about Mirror Mirror support this idea.
2) We know it takes lots of juice to change particular things per conservation of history in Cold Days, so that is the mechanism where stable time loops or an unbroken timeline would occur.
3) Again from Vadderung, we have evidence that suggest time travel can cause splintered timelines that arise from free willed choices with time travel in the mix. AKA, Harry goes back in time to kill his grandfather. This is time travel, check. This is free willed choice, check. This is paradox if Harry is successful, check. Then a branch at that moment spins off with his grandfather dying off right then and there so who knows what that branch looks like. We however do know mostly what the branch looks like where he is unsuccessful in killing off his grandfather. There might be some alterations though with his grandfather learning about his grandson coming back in time to off him and subsequent effects (feedback) of this knowledge may have back up the branch. There would like be some time loop'ish equation going on until a steady state equation would be reached.
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With time travel I assume just all logic is lost and the story is driven by narrative necessity and the rule of cool. You need a very good writer to pull this off, one who is able to manipulate the reader into thinking it can even make sense altogether.
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I agree. But I think he has to maintain the logic established in scifi literature regarding time travel. He will likely adapt tropes regarding time travel into his plots. He has to be consistent with his in book talking heads said to be knowledgeable about time, time travel and his woj's on topics regarding alternate realities, time travel, cosmic view, nature of time, free will, causal effects going off in every direction, etc.
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It seems that the best use of time travel is for Harry to move backward in time to one point specifically and then only for a limited time frame. For him to move to multiple points would seem to be too much like autocorrecting hanging plot points and story discrepancies.
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But see this can lead to an error where we think that is the only time travel takes place. I too like a simplistic view of Harry time traveling with least amount of absurdities at first glance. But this presupposes Harry is the only time traveler, or even the only person along with him on his time traveling mission. The meshing of these other actors, some at cross purposes should create the more complexities than Harry's limited engagement would suggest.
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The nly really good time travel film I’ve seen is Primer. There’s some serial on netflix that my husband puts on called Timless or Timelines or Timesomething. They have time machines and do all these goofy adventures, but the plot is so linear. They really don’t put any depth into it.
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Tmeless? Modifed to Timeless.
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Nah it's TM-less, aka Disney's worst nightmare.
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Disney is taking over all my favorite things. Pretty soon the only non PG-13 movies will be independants.
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Tmeless? Modifed to Timeless.
Yeah, Timless. It's a show about a universe with no Tims. Sort of like the universe with no shrimp. In the Timless universe, you can't even think the name, "Tim". The plot is about them finding a scrap of paper that fell through a dimensional portal with the name "Tim" on it and no one can read it or understand it. It was just a blank slip of paper at first, but then some special people could see something blurred across the scrap. Now, they are searching for answers.
This sounds like a hit show to me, so copyrighting this for sure! Wardenferry, you will be co-creator on the credits. We're going to be rich!
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You're going to have to add time travel to it and plots where sons and daughters live amongst their younger parents.
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You're going to have to add time travel to it and plots where sons and daughters live amongst their younger parents.
Putting you down as a producer for season 2. Time travel will be part of the first series cliffhanger.
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Just Tims with no female counterpart like Anns.
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Just Tims with no female counterpart like Anns.
Or, in their universe:
Just with no female counterpart like .
That doesn’t look like anything to me.
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I'm okay with it.
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Kumori also means cloudy or overcast. I can see how this could apply to an Enthralled Elaine.
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With Mirror Mirror introducing the possibility of alternate realities, and traveling between them, there is the possibility that Cowl, and Kumori are characters from an alternate timeline. For example a timeline where Harry's mother survived.
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With Mirror Mirror introducing the possibility of alternate realities, and traveling between them, there is the possibility that Cowl, and Kumori are characters from an alternate timeline. For example a timeline where Harry's mother survived.
So Cowl and Kumori are Harry's siblings? Kinda Ender's Game there ;)
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Doubt it but I really hope Harry gets some relevant info from the MM.
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If we’re entertaining ideas about them being from alternate universes, then maybe Dresden had it right; they are ringwraiths. Or, maybe Cowl is Saruman and Kumori is Galadriel (from an alternate alternate Tolkien universe). And, Sauron book 19 confirmed. It will be Dresden teamed up with Rosie Cotton and Tom Bombadil fighting orcs and Evil Frodo who has taken possession of the ring.
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Please, there's no way Tom would care enough to go out Orc hunting.
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So Cowl and Kumori are Harry's siblings? Kinda Ender's Game there ;)
Why would Cowl and Kumori be Harry's siblings from what I said?
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There did seem to be a suggestion that the Alpha's could pick up on the scent of Cowl and Kumori but that they didn't because Harry was throwing so much hellfire around. I think Billy said that they only scented Harry and the other scents were too mixed up.
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Please, there's no way Tom would care enough to go out Orc hunting.
This is alternate universe Tom. Old Man Willow killed Goldberry and he’s out for ent bloodsap! He’ll meet up with Rosie Cotton and Dresden in Brie (cheesy name change, I know) and, together, they will torture Butterburr for information about Evil Frodo. When they get to Rivendell, Dresden has a huge battle with Elrond, burning the place to the ground. An ent battle guard contingent will be there and Tomm will destroy them all, throwing the captain and his orc rider into the conflagration. Rosie defeats Bilbo in a rhyming contest and drowns him in a bathtub (just like in the bathtub murder sing Bilbo wrote).
I’ll stop there as I don’t want to spoil the whole book.
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Why would Cowl and Kumori be Harry's siblings from what I said?
This is called leaping to a conclusion :p
Harry's mom survives so has the possibility to have more siblings for Harry, who grow up to be Cowl and Kumori.
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This is called leaping to a conclusion :p
Harry's mom survives so has the possibility to have more siblings for Harry, who grow up to be Cowl and Kumori.
oh lol. What I was meaning is possibly that Kumori is Maggie... I think Kumori is almost 100% Faith, or Elaine but like to play around with the time travel/alternate reality possibility.
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You know, one of the biggest problems or at least one of the issues for my "Marcone is Harry and Murphy's son theory" is the durability of Marcone's birth in multiple alternate realities. They'd require that both Harry and Murphy survive in many different realities. And, that they have some relationship where they get it on and conceive of Marcone. And that, in some fashion involving time travel, Marcone is placed in a contemporary timeline of his parents. The Dresdenverse would then further allow for 'safe' paradoxes, contradictions that arise from event interactions between out of linear sequence actions made by father, son, mother. We do know though that Marcone and Harry often directly impact life/death of the other. Marcone even mentions poking Fate in the eye I think in Dead Beat when he helps save Harry from Corpsetaker after Gard had mentioned it was Harry's fate to die that day.
This theory about Marcone being descended from both Harry and Murphy has some but limited circumstantial evidence but it mainly exists as an artisticly desired plot point on my part.
As to the splinters, time loops, and divergent timelines, I think they can all be included in the Dresdenverse.
1) There is free will choice that causes changes in the timeline. Much evidence in the form of WOJ and spoilers about Mirror Mirror support this idea.
2) We know it takes lots of juice to change particular things per conservation of history in Cold Days, so that is the mechanism where stable time loops or an unbroken timeline would occur.
3) Again from Vadderung, we have evidence that suggest time travel can cause splintered timelines that arise from free willed choices with time travel in the mix. AKA, Harry goes back in time to kill his grandfather. This is time travel, check. This is free willed choice, check. This is paradox if Harry is successful, check. Then a branch at that moment spins off with his grandfather dying off right then and there so who knows what that branch looks like. We however do know mostly what the branch looks like where he is unsuccessful in killing off his grandfather. There might be some alterations though with his grandfather learning about his grandson coming back in time to off him and subsequent effects (feedback) of this knowledge may have back up the branch. There would like be some time loop'ish equation going on until a steady state equation would be reached.
this, this is just stupid. I think people have come up with more theories and placed them in this forum then JB has written total books. This is just flat out dumb. After reading this the forums need to die.
This is exactly the sort of comment which is unacceptable on this forum. Read the Precepts (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23096.0.html). We may be short before the shut down, but that is no excuse for rude behavior.
~Blaze, as Mod.
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Kumori also means cloudy or overcast. I can see how this could apply to an Enthralled Elaine.
please
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Please. Did I force you to read my crazy theory that I acknowledge has limited evidence to support, that is more to do of what I'd like than what will happen. Did we forumites compel you to come here to gather and join a community of rabid fans who share an obsession and then obsess about it in the form of wags of all sorts. Nope.
You are pitiful in striking out at this community in our moment of challenge, that of finding a new home. Your comments reveal your character.
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AKA, Harry goes back in time to kill his grandfather.
lol Vadderung said Harry would get his ass beat if he tried.... Harry thought this meant that Vadderung knew his secret, perhaps he also knows Harry does in fact go back in time, and does get a beat down by Eb. Now I'm hoping to see it.
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Or, Harry's progeny goes back in time to kill Harry. But yeah, I took it as verification that Vadderung has already seen a time traveling Harry so he knows Harry is capable of 'winning' in Cold Days. He has already done it once. :)
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I think mythological Odin could do divination.
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I think mythological Odin could do divination.
(http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/03/Odin-Cinemagraph.gif)
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I think mythological Odin could do divination.
He didn't need to. His wife, Frigg, could see the future. Odin personally traded an awful lot for knowledge and wisdom, so he could also make reasonably good predictions without needing magic.