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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on December 09, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
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I was thinking that perhaps all of it's kind have been Nemfected. The reason why Goodman Grey pays the rent is much like Leah, he was rescued from his infection, but had to go into debt for it. If this is the case it could mean that Shagnasty or another of it's kind could be saved (maybe even by force?)... I think it would actually be pretty cool to see something so evil be saved and be on the side of good, and in Harry's debt.
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I was thinking that perhaps all of it's kind have been Nemfected. The reason why Goodman Grey pays the rent is much like Leah, he was rescued from his infection, but had to go into debt for it. If this is the case it could mean that Shagnasty or another of it's kind could be saved (maybe even by force?)... I think it would actually be pretty cool to see something so evil be saved and be on the side of good, and in Harry's debt.
Nemesis infection must be relatively rare otherwise that dagger wouldn't be such a big deal.
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Yeah, I think there isn't some blanket nemfection inherent in our realities entities. I think nemfection is a strategic creep factor instead.
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Yeah, I think there isn't some blanket nemfection inherent in our realities entities. I think nemfection is a strategic creep factor instead.
Well what about this. They were vulnerable to nemfection (unlike Angels) which resulted in something similar to an angel falling. Once it had happened, they were turned evil even though nemfection was no longer present.
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I could see immortal beings being tricked into accepting the influence of the nemesis. It allowed Maeve to go against her nature, and that might be valuable to such beings.
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I'd not say Nfected per say. They are simply from the negative spectrum of existence.
Demons, who in early books were on par with outsiders, the Unseelie, the Fallen, ect. all these things exist in the negative. Though the Fallen and angels in particular get divided most partially between 'soulfire' creation and 'hellfire' destruction. Some things like Grey pay rent for the staying here, some can't leave their own territory without incurring constant debt and beings like the Unseelie exist specifically in the balance between the two. They adhere to the Laws of reality, don't violate free will, observe lip service to the 3 powers of faith/hold your word Hope/do your Duty and Love/respect homestead laws, ect.
Those things who don't do these tend to end up on the dark side, and this is by and large probably why Odin is known for testing Hosts... and why they wanted Harry to violate Bianca's homestead.
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What about everyone whose name stats with the letter A is n-fected? I’ve always been suspicious of people name Anton. Also, Andi infected: confirmed. That explains why she can no longer use plates and can only write where goats have been.
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What if Nemesis is N-fected with Nemesis so that Nemesis can N-fect it's Nemeses?
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Nemesis infection must be relatively rare otherwise that dagger wouldn't be such a big deal.
I agree with this, but also about it being used strategically, hence all the effort to infect the guardians of the Gates, the Winter Court and the guardians of the guardians, the Summer Court.. Having said that it is quite plausible that Skin Walkers were infiltrated eons ago, since if I remember correctly in Native American folklore they weren't evil to begin with. Infesting them does make sense since with their shape shifting abilities they can go undetected just about anywhere.
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I agree with this, but also about it being used strategically, hence all the effort to infect the guardians of the Gates, the Winter Court and the guardians of the guardians, the Summer Court.. Having said that it is quite plausible that Skin Walkers were infiltrated eons ago, since if I remember correctly in Native American folklore they weren't evil to begin with. Infesting them does make sense since with their shape shifting abilities they can go undetected just about anywhere.
Not to mention I believe they are supposed to be messengers? Infiltrate the ones who connect mortals to much more powerful being's and you can do some good damage with minimal risk.
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The Dagger, a mortal made weapon of power on scale with Amoriacus, being in the hands of an immortal fae could be what's rare though.
One thing most all immortals we've encountered have either lacked or personified is soul, or any of it's derivatives(i.e. mortality, choice, creative magic, ect) The Dagger I think actually changed the... 'alloy' of Lea (based on the mantles being derivitives of angelic wholes) and gave her a bit of, if not soul 'lively' magic.
Directly when Harry is being saved he thinks he see's an angel in the smoke, with wings. He later discovers it was Lea who saved him though?
So why Did she Manifest wings? because using mortal magic through the knife changed the memories of love she acquired from Susan into part of herself. This is why she acts almost loving toward Harry in SK. Mortal influence gave immortal 'choice'/change.
And No, this isn't the only time this has happened, though one i'd like to point to directly is Lash. Harry basically imprinted a piece of his own make up onto her and she ended up killing herself, much as Harry later does as per Woj. Elaine nudged Aurora down her path over ten years of constant exposer, ect.
Mortal Madness Indeed.
This would mean all Humans are susceptible, but with freedom of will being a main part of them it can't really do more than whisper in their heads. Which if I might harken to my Lilith/Nemesis replaced Lucifer as the Adversary theory. Would literally give her the role(currently mind) we classically give to the father of lies as the whisperer. The shadow on everybodies shoulder, the dark mirror of ourselves...
*a description of Christ's action "removal of an evil force from your spiritual being present in all of humanity".
Al la Lucifer, Now Nemesis. Lucifer took all the negative's he worked with and made their own nitch in reality for(same way Mab did with the Ice Giant's).
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As Bob tells it, they were messengers of the Native American gods, but some decided to stay behind, and through time went dark. I don't know if maybe they were nemfected and able to deny the call to go, or if they had a measure of free-will and just decided.
Also, not all of the Amer-Ind gods were "good". It could be there are "good" Nagloshii out there, but we don't hear about them because they don't make the "news".
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As Bob tells it, they were messengers of the Native American gods, but some decided to stay behind, and through time went dark. I don't know if maybe they were nemfected and able to deny the call to go, or if they had a measure of free-will and just decided.
I'd find it really kind of disappointing if they were, tbh.
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Angels were messengers of God and some of them fell. Sometimes messengers don't get the message. :)
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You'd think if there is some blanket group out there that is known neglected then mab and other powers would be gladly taking them out.
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Hmmm... I don't want the Naagloshii to be under the influence of Nemesis. First of all, it makes little sense, second of all, it would make Dresdenverse a very, very, very boring place.
Guys, let's be a little open minded, allow other creatures to be asshats too. Seriously... how do people even get into a position, where they want to polarize world into only two sides. This isn't the US senate, people.
In the real world you can have plenty of groups do bad or good things for their own reasons. Not because they are part of this group, that group or the entirely different other group.
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Gotta consider, why the Naglooshi ended up in DR in at least a dozen then. We got the very British sounding guy everyone is willing to accept as Nefected but conceivably an actual mortal... but totally leave behind the signifigence of him saying he needs to be in their and why that is.
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Gotta consider, why the Naglooshi ended up in DR in at least a dozen then. We got the very British sounding guy everyone is willing to accept as Nefected but conceivably an actual mortal... but totally leave behind the signifigence of him saying he needs to be in their and why that is.
Because they are sadistic monsters who enjoy causing all kinds of pain and the Wardens are mortals? That would be enough of a reason for most people. Nobody ever said, that Demonreach was entirely impartial to all Insiders.
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Because they are sadistic monsters who enjoy causing all kinds of pain and the Wardens are mortals? That would be enough of a reason for most people. Nobody ever said, that Demonreach was entirely impartial to all Insiders.
You consider Naagloshi insiders? The whole can't exist outside of own domain without incurring debt and their descendant Grey's need to pay Rent, I'd peg them as none natural to the mortal plain or reality as a whole.
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You consider Naagloshi insiders? The whole can't exist outside of own domain without incurring debt and their descendant Grey's need to pay Rent, I'd peg them as none natural to the mortal plain or reality as a whole.
Of course I do. Naagloshii are messengers [ or their descedants ] of North American gods. The territory part comes with the mythology. They are most definitely not Outsiders. Fomors are insiders too. So are various other demons and deities.
If you think otherwise, maybe re-read the books again...?
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Of course I do. Naagloshii are messengers [ or their descedants ] of North American gods. The territory part comes with the mythology. They are most definitely not Outsiders. Fomors are insiders too. So are various other demons and deities.
If you think otherwise, maybe re-read the books again...?
Maybe hold the snark before I show you how it's done...?
Nemesis used to be a Greek Goddess. Now she's not, now she's what GK watches for at the gates. Yea, yea, Nemesis isn't... but she is, reread what Titania told Harry and why that would be, it's okay to call it The Adversary but Not Nemesis as, it will attract it's attention. The only known mechanism that works precisely that way is Naming things(heck we have a literal Greek example in Hades, who wears Mordite on his crown). No reason to make up a whole new mechanism when a known effect is applicable, nor would it necessarily be a stronger case..
Which would naturally lead to the rebuttal that Hades is part of reality, his spirit is true, in so much as it's still attached to it's original human memory of him.
Then we have MS's comment to MW that it's not 'her' world. The comparison of MW as the longest shadow and Lucifer as the deepest, the fact though both those things exist in human memory they are in fact both simply reflections of direct inside universe immortals. Lucifer in particular here, because in SmF his power is described as the anti version of what TWC promotes, the idea of freedom. This is not directly from any biblical sourcing I know of, this is his own spin and ergo directly relevant. Hell, even Mab is actually just the shadow of Titania, even though she has more purchase inside reality than any demon of an active religion as a story book character...
Moral of that rant is the division between 'outsider' and insider isn't so clear, and indeed Shaggy and co all have the same vein of negative attributions as Outsiders and even Blamps, who exist inside but are apparently effected heavily by Necromancy and the power of NOT.
Also, comparing Angels to Ghosts(as is obliquely done in GS) they scale to the same set of choices to make the same relevant change in reply. Angels can stay out of it and do only what they are meant to or they Fall. Ghosts can respect that same veil between the NN and reality or they too go completely batshit from it. Though the effects are different the causality is actually quite similar if not the same. Almost everything can be applied to this model I think..
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We got the very British sounding guy everyone is willing to accept as Nefected but conceivably an actual mortal... but totally leave behind the signifigence of him saying he needs to be in their and why that is.
Since when has everyone been willing to accept that guy as Nemfected? Last I heard, the prevailing wisdom was that he was the original Merlin and in there voluntarily.
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The whole can't exist outside of own domain without incurring debt and their descendant Grey's need to pay Rent,
Have we some evidence for Grey's Rent being a general skinwalker thing rather than specific to Grey in particular, who seems to be only part-skinwalker? The comparison that makes most sense to me there is the changelings in SK (and Sarissa in CD) making particular efforts to choose to be human or Faerie or indeed to defer choosing.
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Maybe hold the snark before I show you how it's done...?
Nemesis used to be a Greek Goddess. Now she's not, now she's what GK watches for at the gates. Yea, yea, Nemesis isn't... but she is, reread what Titania told Harry and why that would be, it's okay to call it The Adversary but Not Nemesis as, it will attract it's attention. The only known mechanism that works precisely that way is Naming things(heck we have a literal Greek example in Hades, who wears Mordite on his crown). No reason to make up a whole new mechanism when a known effect is applicable, nor would it necessarily be a stronger case..
Which would naturally lead to the rebuttal that Hades is part of reality, his spirit is true, in so much as it's still attached to it's original human memory of him.
Then we have MS's comment to MW that it's not 'her' world. The comparison of MW as the longest shadow and Lucifer as the deepest, the fact though both those things exist in human memory they are in fact both simply reflections of direct inside universe immortals. Lucifer in particular here, because in SmF his power is described as the anti version of what TWC promotes, the idea of freedom. This is not directly from any biblical sourcing I know of, this is his own spin and ergo directly relevant. Hell, even Mab is actually just the shadow of Titania, even though she has more purchase inside reality than any demon of an active religion as a story book character...
Moral of that rant is the division between 'outsider' and insider isn't so clear, and indeed Shaggy and co all have the same vein of negative attributions as Outsiders and even Blamps, who exist inside but are apparently effected heavily by Necromancy and the power of NOT.
Also, comparing Angels to Ghosts(as is obliquely done in GS) they scale to the same set of choices to make the same relevant change in reply. Angels can stay out of it and do only what they are meant to or they Fall. Ghosts can respect that same veil between the NN and reality or they too go completely batshit from it. Though the effects are different the causality is actually quite similar if not the same. Almost everything can be applied to this model I think..
Outsiders are beings from outside our reality. That's how they are always described.
And I'm fairly certain, that Nemesis isn't the greek goddess of retribution and just punishment. I'm farily certain, that it has something to do with modern english meaning of the world which is akin to "Enemy", "Adversary" or "Satan" ..
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Nemesis used to be a Greek Goddess. Now she's not, now she's what GK watches for at the gates.
I don't believe we have had it confirmed that the infiltrator Nemesis was literally the Greek goddess Nemesis, rather than another entity taking up that name (like the Lords of Outer Night pretending to be the Mayan gods).
Lucifer in particular here, because in SmF his power is described as the anti version of what TWC promotes, the idea of freedom.
I am now trying to remember which theology it is where Lucifer's revolt is prompted by being absolutely horrified that the WG would be so evil as to enable humans to make choices that would deny them Heaven.
Besides, TWG is all judgey. Lucifer loves and rewards everyone, no matter how bad. The bit in the Gospels about loving your enemies comes to mind.
Moral of that rant is the division between 'outsider' and insider isn't so clear, and indeed Shaggy and co all have the same vein of negative attributions as Outsiders and even Blamps, who exist inside but are apparently effected heavily by Necromancy and the power of NOT.
There's a connection between necromancy and Outsiders, beyond that free-willed humans interested in causing havoc mess about with them both and the White Council think both are a bad idea?
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Angels were messengers of God and some of them fell. Sometimes messengers don't get the message. :)
Depends on their motives.
(Never mind sacrificing your life for your friends, how great a love does it take to sacrifice eternity ?)
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the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh: While I enjoy your posts, I'd like to bring your attention to the existence of the *gasp* "modify" button.
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Since when has everyone been willing to accept that guy as Nemfected? Last I heard, the prevailing wisdom was that he was the original Merlin and in there voluntarily.
We know it wasn't OG Merlin because Jim said so. Unless you think him being deceptive he specifically tells Harry he needs to be in there. Granted that is a logical leap in reasoning there, but not an unfounded one since we have an Nfected meave seeking to break open the well. It's safe to assume they have allies or otherwise contained individuals in there for those reasons. The connection between DR and Outsiders is most outright stated by DR himself, when he names them Old Gods with capitalization in the book(unless i'm wildly misremembering something I thought before when I read it) vs Harry's proclamation in DB of the same manor towards the Outsiders as Old Gods and their servants.
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I don't believe we have had it confirmed that the infiltrator Nemesis was literally the Greek goddess Nemesis, rather than another entity taking up that name (like the Lords of Outer Night pretending to be the Mayan gods).
The red court as pretenders is Harry's wishfull thinking. Odin was quite clear about it. They used to be gods and were worshiped by a whole nation just like him.
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Have we some evidence for Grey's Rent being a general skinwalker thing rather than specific to Grey in particular, who seems to be only part-skinwalker? The comparison that makes most sense to me there is the changelings in SK (and Sarissa in CD) making particular efforts to choose to be human or Faerie or indeed to defer choosing.
Is it not a succinct enough parallel? Skinwalkers are drained constantly by being on foreign land on top of being already diminished by leaving. This is similar to Threshold rules, for a reason. They are violating the current Spiritus Mundi of earth, that which defines it's reality and set's it's cosmic rules apparently, TWC. They are in a very basic way incroaching on his home turf. Grey being part SW seems to have the same problem but he combats this by paying 'Rent'. Keeping his fluid mortal nature in positive spectrum, much like Kringle(the courts specifically and intentionally ride the balance so neither side wins out) himself with his gift giving. he gives more than he receives in return.
Again, this positive-negatve spectrum is found in everything, but being Outsider seems to imply having no positive connections to reality at all(which includes memetics in humans, though not always). It's why Warden became wardens, Wizards who violate the laws are actually in one way or another violating that same freedom of will, Warlocks and Necromancers don't use positive energy anymore, just as Fallen don't use soulfire, they use Hellfire. Everything exists on this spectrum, and humans are the perfect alloy of it all, and capable of rotating the composition too.
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I don't believe we have had it confirmed that the infiltrator Nemesis was literally the Greek goddess Nemesis, rather than another entity taking up that name (like the Lords of Outer Night pretending to be the Mayan gods).
Key point, when they stole the identity they changed the names too.
I am now trying to remember which theology it is where Lucifer's revolt is prompted by being absolutely horrified that the WG would be so evil as to enable humans to make choices that would deny them Heaven.[/quote]Which if you read is precisely my point there man... precisely my point...
Besides, TWG is all judgey. Lucifer loves and rewards everyone, no matter how bad. The bit in the Gospels about loving your enemies comes to mind.
The original testament was, and that is again already accounted for in my head, but before that, see above and remember this is an artistically licensed book, not the gospel.
There's a connection between necromancy and Outsiders, beyond that free-willed humans interested in causing havoc mess about with them both and the White Council think both are a bad idea?
Non sequitur? *shrugs* idk see what the line of though is here.
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Outsiders are beings from outside our reality. That's how they are always described.
And I'm fairly certain, that Nemesis isn't the greek goddess of retribution and just punishment. I'm farily certain, that it has something to do with modern english meaning of the world which is akin to "Enemy", "Adversary" or "Satan" ..
The Adversary was a heavenly role Lucifer occupied(has NO connotations to the Satan actually) mainly shown in the book of Job. His role as the Devil was after the fall.
Hence why you can say her role but not the name there.
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We know it wasn't OG Merlin because Jim said so.
OK, I'd not seen that one.
Granted that is a logical leap in reasoning there, but not an unfounded one since we have an Nfected meave seeking to break open the well. It's safe to assume they have allies or otherwise contained individuals in there for those reasons.
Or they just want to release evil stuff to cause chaos and act under cover of that chaos. No formal alliance necessary.
The connection between DR and Outsiders is most outright stated by DR himself, when he names them Old Gods with capitalization in the book(unless i'm wildly misremembering something I thought before when I read it) vs Harry's proclamation in DB of the same manor towards the Outsiders as Old Gods and their servants.
I think you are misremembering here.
IIRC, Old Gods is used in several places to refer to the polytheistic deities who are mostly in the NN and not affecting Earth any more, as by Harry in PG. The gods of the Outsiders are the Old Ones.
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Key point, when they stole the identity they changed the names too.
Remind me what you are referring to here,
I am now trying to remember which theology it is where Lucifer's revolt is prompted by being absolutely horrified that the WG would be so evil as to enable humans to make choices that would deny them Heaven.
Which if you read is precisely my point there man... precisely my point...
Your point was that being in favour of free will may not make TWG a good guy, and being against it may not make Lucifer evil, too ?
Non sequitur? *shrugs* idk see what the line of though is here.
The line of thought is, you drawing a connection from Outsiders to naagloshi to necromancy-powered Black Court vampires seems to me to be lumping three disparate things into one without evidence enough to do so.
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The red court as pretenders is Harry's wishfull thinking. Odin was quite clear about it. They used to be gods and were worshiped by a whole nation just like him.
We know from various sources (Harry in PG, the bassanid in "last Call") that the old gods mostly left Earth and the bassanid at least believes TWG had something to do with it.
Nothing prevents the original mayan gods being kicked out whenever that happened (which I think was most likely around the time of Christ, am I remembering the bassanid referring to about two thousand years correctly?) and the Red Court who replaced them having centuries to be worshipped as gods before the various relevant Mesoamerican cultures collapsed.
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We know from various sources (Harry in PG, the bassanid in "last Call") that the old gods mostly left Earth and the bassanid at least believes TWG had something to do with it.
Nothing prevents the original mayan gods being kicked out whenever that happened (which I think was most likely around the time of Christ, am I remembering the bassanid referring to about two thousand years correctly?) and the Red Court who replaced them having centuries to be worshipped as gods before the various relevant Mesoamerican cultures collapsed.
“What you must understand is that you face beings such as I in this battle.”
I frowned. “You mean . . . gods?”
“Mostly retired gods, at any rate,” Vadderung said. “Once, entire civilizations bowed to them. Now they are venerated by only a handful, the power of their blood spread out among thousands of offspring. But in the Lords of Outer Night, even the remnants of that power are more than you can face as you are.”
That seems quite clear and Vadderung should know.
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Remind me what you are referring to here,
Kulkan usurped identity from Quetzalcoatl. The blood sacrifice thing and the overtaking of cultures happened in the same cultural revolution, just as the Greeks did turning into the decadent Romans(probably not a coincidence we met Hades, not Pluto even though Pluto is a more recent mask). The newer names were what they became known under after a change had set in giving rise to a new identity(though you could argue it was vice versa, Frozen and all the kid friendly things haven't changed the Fae yet)
Your point was that being in favour of free will may not make TWG a good guy, and being against it may not make Lucifer evil, too ?
Point being TWG being a champion of goodwill and Lucifer's power described as unable to even have room for the concept of freedom is purely a DF creation, Jim's work. Giving it more meaning than borrowed aspects
The line of thought is, you drawing a connection from Outsiders to naagloshi to necromancy-powered Black Court vampires seems to me to be lumping three disparate things into one without evidence enough to do so.
Welcome to the C.I.A. Dr. Holmes. The evidence is all there already. I can continually point it out, though if the circumstances are agreed upon is an entirely other matter.
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The line of thought is, you drawing a connection from Outsiders to naagloshi to necromancy-powered Black Court vampires seems to me to be lumping three disparate things into one without evidence enough to do so.
Welcome to the C.I.A. Dr. Holmes. The evidence is all there already. I can continually point it out, though if the circumstances are agreed upon is an entirely other matter.
1. Sherlock Holmes was not a Dr. . Watson was the Dr. Also: The person Holmes' character was based upon was. Which is quite funny, since House was somewhat based upon Holmes.
2. Trying to push Outsiders, Naagloshii, possibly Reds and Blampires into one group is kinda silly. What is this? Scott Pilgrim vs. The World? It's perfectly fine to have multiple actors with their own agendas in this. Makes things a lot more interesting. If it ends up Harry vs. everyone else and he's also expected to win... well... the story would suck.
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I sometimes think that all the supernatural in our world got their power from the outsiders and the outsiders want it back.
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Welcome to the C.I.A. Dr. Holmes. The evidence is all there already. I can continually point it out, though if the circumstances are agreed upon is an entirely other matter.
1. Sherlock Holmes was not a Dr. . Watson was the Dr. Also: The person Holmes' character was based upon was. Which is quite funny, since House was somewhat based upon Holmes.
2. Trying to push Outsiders, Naagloshii, possibly Reds and Blampires into one group is kinda silly. What is this? Scott Pilgrim vs. The World? It's perfectly fine to have multiple actors with their own agendas in this. Makes things a lot more interesting. If it ends up Harry vs. everyone else and he's also expected to win... well... the story would suck.
SInce you can't seem to make comments refuting others without adding in biting retorts, i'm going to block you now, thanks guy. I mean hell, I think it's silly to refute someones theory or idea without seeing the base points of why they have it, but that's just me.
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If there is anything linking Outsiders, Naagloshii, and BCV; I would say it might be Dracul and scions.
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If there is anything linking Outsiders, Naagloshii, and BCV; I would say it might be Dracul and scions.
Or they just don’t like the status quo. That would be enough to work in the same direction.
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SInce you can't seem to make comments refuting others without adding in biting retorts, i'm going to block you now, thanks guy. I mean hell, I think it's silly to refute someones theory or idea without seeing the base points of why they have it, but that's just me.
Wow, someone reading Dresden Files doesn't like sarcasm in a discussion. Ah well. I think I'm going to throw a pity party that you blocked me :)
And I'm fairly certain that I wasn't refuting your theory. I was presenting my thoughts on said theory. And I said that I didn't like it, because it basically flattens the whole story. I like Dresden Files because it has it's complexity.
I'm guessing that it's not the whole Black Court. I'm guessing, that Mavra wanted the Word of Kemmler to protect her and hers from Outsiders.
As Mother Summer said:
“Winter and Summer are two opposing forces of our world,” she said. “But we are of our world. Here, that is all that matters. And showing respect to one’s elders is never unwise.”
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I think we all need to remember this is a polite and fun forum that allows all theories and speculation. Light-hearted snarkiness is great; but, texts that feel like personal attacks are nobody's friend. We shouldn't have to block people or throw pity parties. If something is said that cause anger then ignore it and move onto another thread; we have plenty that can be discussed. I am not a moderator or any kind of an authority figure; just a member wanting to discuss my favorite topic (me) and Butcher's work. Thank you.
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I think we all need to remember this is a polite and fun forum that allows all theories and speculation. Light-hearted snarkiness is great; but, texts that feel like personal attacks are nobody's friend. We shouldn't have to block people or throw pity parties. If something is said that cause anger then ignore it and move onto another thread; we have plenty that can be discussed. I am not a moderator or any kind of an authority figure; just a member wanting to discuss my favorite topic (me) and Butcher's work. Thank you.
That part with me throwing a pity party was just me being sarcastic :)
And I didn't mean to attack anyone and as far as I'm aware, I'm not formulating my posts like that. I simply enjoy a joke or some banter every once in a while. I would apologize, but in this case offense was taken, not given.
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What one person sees as a joke another person could see differently. We all have sensitive spots. I usually see apologies as more about courtesy and less about commitment.
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Hm... apology to me is admitting of a wrongdoing, accepting the responsibility and making reparations.
That is why I only apologize if I actually did something wrong. Jonas misreading my post and instead of trying to debate it out just blocked me... well, I see no action of mine that was wrong. I even used a fairly mild language in the post he was reacting to.
If an apology is just words, then it has no meaning. I am aware that the current society thinks lightly of such things, but I do not.
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I respect your opinion on the matter of apologies. I work customer service and it is a habit I have developed to reduce work stress.
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I respect your opinion on the matter of apologies. I work customer service and it is a habit I have developed to reduce work stress.
I work as an IT/software support guy [ though it looks like I'm going back to programming soon ]. Occasionally I talk to the customer. I tend to be polite, nice and all tied up with a pretty pink bow. I even help the customers with things outside of our scope if they ask me to, as long as it's not something too big. That doesn't mean that I don't realize that they misuse my service. I do it because: less hassle.
And... buy something squishy you can throw against the wall without breaking anything. Works like a charm to reduce stress. Or something you can kick around without causing damage.
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What one person sees as a joke another person could see differently. We all have sensitive spots. I usually see apologies as more about courtesy and less about commitment.
I've worked customer service too. I've seen so many empty apologizing in my life I don't personally care for it on the receiving end as more than a courtesy and try to rarely apologize myself. I'm probably not sorry, and if I am I may commit to doing something about it, but i'm not going to be courtly about it. At the most i'll acknowledge a mistake.
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That seems quite clear and Vadderung should know.
Yeah, putting two statements next to each other and leaving the listener to assume a possibly misleading degree of connection is not a confirmation.
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Yeah, putting two statements next to each other and leaving the listener to assume a possibly misleading degree of connection is not a confirmation.
How else can you interpret his statements without stretching them beyond recognition?
Beings such as Odin and worshipped. That is enough to make a god for me.