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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: pcpoet on September 28, 2017, 06:33:19 AM

Title: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: pcpoet on September 28, 2017, 06:33:19 AM
was reading small favors and I think I pinpointed the conception bonnie.

in Small favors Dresden  is researching the attack on him and the carpenter children. In the book  Dresden as narrator to his  story and comments on Bob and the romance novels that he reads. I believe it is  at the point that Dresden speculates on the possibility that bob would want to have a family and children that bonnie is conceived .

Jim butcher then inserts into the story Dresden finding a Calvin and hobs story book on the  basement floor.  The type of stuff that is easily dismissed by us the reader but is as important as the Angel Uriel or Bob the janitor leaving a copy of JR tokens The tail of two towers at the hospital for Dresden to find. The comic book is about a little kid and his imaginary friend hobs a tiger and some times stuffed toy.

Later on at the end of the book we discover that Dresden has come to the conclusion that Lucifer actually interfered helping  the Denarians .   I think that lashiel was suppose reassert control of Dresden but  because Lucifer had  involved himself it allowed Uriel to act upon what was going to happen.

 So instead of lashiel gaining control and freezing Dresden when commanded to  by  nicodemus we have the conception of bonnie. Who is actually the mixing of spirits from Bob and lashiels shadow to  creating another spirit of intellect or possibly even a baby angel.  At the end of the book  Euriel tells Dresden while being bob the janitor that he helped Dresden  ih the fight by altering in an equal way cosmicly speaking to the help that Lucifer gave out.   He also said he took the long view of his help.  That is when he dsapears and Dresden fids an old copy of JR Tolkens “Two towers”.
It isat this point dresdens head starts to hurt as he acts as the surrogate wound for BOBs and Lashiels child.

Remember also that bob realy does not have a personalty of his own. Bob takes his personality from who ever has his skull. If Dresden had not speculated about children and family for bob. Euriel would not of been able to effect lashiels reassertion of control on Dresden by combining bobs spirit and lashiels shadow.

I think  when bob asked harry to carve him a emrgencie home it was because Bob knew about bonnie.
I think when mab nade a deal with bonnie it was to keep the natureof her existence a secret in exchange for heeping to keep harry alive.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Con on September 28, 2017, 06:57:53 AM
Nice foreshadowing. I'd forgotten about Harry speculating Bob might want to concieve, but I think it was just an example of Harry's subconscious trying to get Harry to consider the idea as he was already pregnant.

ID Harry confirms Bonnea's conception was the act of love taking a bullet for Harry psychicly and that Harry able to play the guitar perfectly was a symptom of Bonnea's presence.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: pcpoet on September 28, 2017, 07:28:40 AM
harry being able to play the gutar was the seed but I still think that it was Uriel intervening that allowed this to take place. Dresden's mind was heeling and if lash had remained lash when nicodemus commanded her to stop Dresden as lashiels shadow she would f had to listen. I am convinced that Uriel played a visit to bob and intervened with bob. the act of thinking aout children and bob allowed for the interaction
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: jonas on September 28, 2017, 07:34:22 AM
Nice foreshadowing. I'd forgotten about Harry speculating Bob might want to concieve, but I think it was just an example of Harry's subconscious trying to get Harry to consider the idea as he was already pregnant.

ID Harry confirms Bonnea's conception was the act of love taking a bullet for Harry psychicly and that Harry able to play the guitar perfectly was a symptom of Bonnea's presence.
Query and statement, Q: is Bonie uh... Soulfilled vs Bob? He's an intellect spirit sure, but different origins wthi her's being mortal and angelic.

S: the idea for the song post death mirrors a voyager episode
(click to show/hide)
Star Trek actually has a few elements drawn here towards great story making, then again, We have a literal Mirror Mirror book to follow.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: jonas on September 28, 2017, 07:36:58 AM
harry being able to play the gutar was the seed but I still think that it was Uriel intervening that allowed this to take place. Dresden's mind was heeling and if lash had remained lash when nicodemus commanded her to stop Dresden as lashiels shadow she would f had to listen. I am convinced that Uriel played a visit to bob and intervened with bob. the act of thinking aout children and bob allowed for the interaction
Lash was gone when Nic *tried* to command her in SmF. Bonie was growing, but no where near complete.
Does make me wonder if the Blastijg Rod theft wasn't added by bonie back then too. To give her cover from Bob's sight.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Froklsnt on September 28, 2017, 12:58:04 PM
Fascinating idea, but I don't think it's the moment of conception, as Con stated above. Harry's guitar playing at the end of White Night is after Lash died, but clearly shows another presence in his head almost immediately after her death. But it seems safe to assume that Jim was deliberately foreshadowing, and that perhaps Bonnie helped put that idea into Harry's head, as a way to prepare him / make her presence known.

Actually, I think Id Harry is a better candidate for putting that thought in Harry's mind. Id Harry knows all about Bonnie, and it's well established that he's responsible for a lot of Harry's intuition. Even if conscious Harry didn't get it at the time, it was a good way to prime him.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: dspringer1 on September 28, 2017, 03:25:01 PM
The act of creation was at the point where Harry was held fast by the will of the Outsiders in the Grotto and Lash sacrificed herself to allow him to act.  It was her one act of selfless love -- and thus the spark of creation in this matter.  Whether Uriel helped or not is irrelevant in my mind.  She choose. 
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Snark Knight on September 28, 2017, 03:26:11 PM
and if lash had remained lash when nicodemus commanded her to stop Dresden as lashiels shadow she would f had to listen.

I don't agree with that. Lash didn't have to obey anyone by the end - she literally could not have chosen to take the bullet for Harry if she wasn't capable of defying the purposes of the original Fallen by that point.

Besides which, with the Fallen acting at cross-purposes as often as cooperating, how would Nic have had command authority over another Fallen's shadow? He expected to be obeyed because as far as he was concerned, the shadow was still trying to turn Harry - essentially, he figured the shadow would go along with his plan to paralyze Harry and carry him away because it would help her agenda. It's not that he has a compulsion over all shadows, it's that he was banking Lasciel still had a compulsion over Lash.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: khadgar4606 on September 29, 2017, 08:08:10 AM
correct me if i wrong but did lash said healing from the wound but takes time so my theory is lash is still in the harrys mind but way to deep that no one knows where she is except bonnie which she move to new home
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Kindler on October 02, 2017, 03:07:27 PM
correct me if i wrong but did lash said healing from the wound but takes time so my theory is lash is still in the harrys mind but way to deep that no one knows where she is except bonnie which she move to new home

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that after White Night, Lash withdrew deep into Harry's brain to recover from her nonfatal wounds? Wasn't this disproved by Bonnie's birth? I was under the impression that she was created because Lash was destroyed, and that the sacrifice (meaning terminal) was a necessary part of her conception.

Tangential but related to the thread topic: how did Bob miss Bonnie's presence? He gives Harry an examination at the end of Small Favor and remarks that bits of his soul are missing from using Soulfire. Shouldn't he have seen another entity growing in his head? Especially if she's like Bob, and kind of tuned into the same wavelength?
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Froklsnt on October 02, 2017, 07:19:40 PM
Tangential but related to the thread topic: how did Bob miss Bonnie's presence? He gives Harry an examination at the end of Small Favor and remarks that bits of his soul are missing from using Soulfire. Shouldn't he have seen another entity growing in his head? Especially if she's like Bob, and kind of tuned into the same wavelength?

There is pretty good evidence that Mab had messed with Bob's head in SmF as well as Harry's. Or at least that Bob was playing along with Mab. There's an excellent theory somewhere on the forum which makes a very compelling case that Mab masked Harry's memory of Little Chicago just like she did with his blasting rod. The key bit of evidence is that both are described as being under tarps when Harry tries to recall / interacts with them. Harry was down in his lab beating himself senseless over how he could find Thomas, and never thinks to try Little Chicago. And Bob was there helping him. and never suggests it. That to me suggests either that Bob got his mind messed with too, or at least that he's in on it, like his conversation with Thomas in Backup.

There's a second possibility too. Harry got "ice picks" to the temples when he interacts with Mouse in the same period. Mouse also could have found Thomas (This is confirmed by Mouse later on). In both cases, Harry's mind has been altered to keep him from finding Thomas without having to go to Demonreach. The rationale goes that Mab wanted to get the Harry and the island acquainted for things down the road.  But "ice picks" is the telltale sign most associated with Bonnie. Perhaps Bonnie was already working with Mab back then. Or maybe Id Harry already was, he was wearing that snowflake lapel pin by the next time we saw him (albiet after Harry becomes the WK).

So, if some combination of Bob, Id Harry and Bonnie have been compelled by / bargained with Mab to keep Bonnie's presence secret, that would explain why Bob doesn't remark on her. Either she's actively hiding, perhaps with Id Harry's help, or Bob is willfully choosing not to comment on her presence. Or some combination of all three.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: jonas on October 02, 2017, 09:48:52 PM
I theorize Bonnie helped with taking the blasting rod in exchange for Mab helping her hide. Harry's headaches and pains are in virtually the same spots with similar icepick descriptions for both.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Tami Seven on October 03, 2017, 04:08:04 AM
The act of creation was at the point where Harry was held fast by the will of the Outsiders in the Grotto and Lash sacrificed herself to allow him to act.  It was her one act of selfless love -- and thus the spark of creation in this matter.  Whether Uriel helped or not is irrelevant in my mind.  She choose.

I would agree that Lasciel's sacrifice was the moment it happened.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: peregrine on October 03, 2017, 04:42:10 AM
Ditto.

Possibly it's tied into it, that in doing what she did, she Chose her own destruction, in the same way that an angel going against its purpose Chooses to fall then and there.  That if she had elected to do what she did, even without the brain damage, she'd have been destroyed because of how radical a change it would be to her Nature.

Or possibly not.  You can justify a lot under the aegis of "need to keep the host alive so he can be turned later."  Plus, her Nature, such as it was, was imprinted on the malleable surface that was Harry's psyche, so it obviously wasn't as immutable as the true and proper Lasciel.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Kindler on October 03, 2017, 12:52:06 PM
There is pretty good evidence that Mab had messed with Bob's head in SmF as well as Harry's. Or at least that Bob was playing along with Mab. There's an excellent theory somewhere on the forum which makes a very compelling case that Mab masked Harry's memory of Little Chicago just like she did with his blasting rod. The key bit of evidence is that both are described as being under tarps when Harry tries to recall / interacts with them. Harry was down in his lab beating himself senseless over how he could find Thomas, and never thinks to try Little Chicago. And Bob was there helping him. and never suggests it. That to me suggests either that Bob got his mind messed with too, or at least that he's in on it, like his conversation with Thomas in Backup.

There's a second possibility too. Harry got "ice picks" to the temples when he interacts with Mouse in the same period. Mouse also could have found Thomas (This is confirmed by Mouse later on). In both cases, Harry's mind has been altered to keep him from finding Thomas without having to go to Demonreach. The rationale goes that Mab wanted to get the Harry and the island acquainted for things down the road.  But "ice picks" is the telltale sign most associated with Bonnie. Perhaps Bonnie was already working with Mab back then. Or maybe Id Harry already was, he was wearing that snowflake lapel pin by the next time we saw him (albiet after Harry becomes the WK).

So, if some combination of Bob, Id Harry and Bonnie have been compelled by / bargained with Mab to keep Bonnie's presence secret, that would explain why Bob doesn't remark on her. Either she's actively hiding, perhaps with Id Harry's help, or Bob is willfully choosing not to comment on her presence. Or some combination of all three.

Harry isn't looking for Thomas in Small Favor because he's off pretending to be Harry most of the time; he's looking for him in the next book, Turn Coat. Harry uses Little Chicago shortly after Mab messes with his head, to send the Gruffs on the wild goose chase with Mister's help, so I don't think they could've removed that. What led him to the island was Nicodemus setting the meet there.

There's no real need to use Little Chicago in Turn Coat; Harry finds out that Thomas is missing, gets the lead from Vince Graver, follows it directly to the lawyer, soulgazes her, finds out that the White Court was involved, and heads to see Lara with Luccio. That's when the Skinwalker tells him that he's got Thomas, and gives him all the contact information he needs to set a meeting later on. He mentions that it would be near impossible to find the skinwalker with magic as a handwave, and has Lara try to trace the cell phone instead. Meanwhile, Harry's balancing dealing with Morgan and keeping him alive while finding the traitor. Little Chicago would just have taken him valuable time (I recall it taking him something like an hour or two to get ready to use it each time) when he's got other stuff to do.

I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but that the motivation and means behind it is sketchy, in my opinion.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Froklsnt on October 03, 2017, 05:09:23 PM
Harry isn't looking for Thomas in Small Favor because he's off pretending to be Harry most of the time; he's looking for him in the next book, Turn Coat. Harry uses Little Chicago shortly after Mab messes with his head, to send the Gruffs on the wild goose chase with Mister's help, so I don't think they could've removed that. What led him to the island was Nicodemus setting the meet there.

There's no real need to use Little Chicago in Turn Coat; Harry finds out that Thomas is missing, gets the lead from Vince Graver, follows it directly to the lawyer, soulgazes her, finds out that the White Court was involved, and heads to see Lara with Luccio. That's when the Skinwalker tells him that he's got Thomas, and gives him all the contact information he needs to set a meeting later on. He mentions that it would be near impossible to find the skinwalker with magic as a handwave, and has Lara try to trace the cell phone instead. Meanwhile, Harry's balancing dealing with Morgan and keeping him alive while finding the traitor. Little Chicago would just have taken him valuable time (I recall it taking him something like an hour or two to get ready to use it each time) when he's got other stuff to do.

I'm not saying it's totally impossible, but that the motivation and means behind it is sketchy, in my opinion.

I was incorrect about the timeline of events, yes. The original theory I was referencing is by Ms Duck, has a "Strong Evidence" label on theories list, and can be found in post 2 here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452190.html#msg1452190).

Quote from: Ms Duck
Small Favor
     
 Now this is where life gets interesting. Mab outright (she admits it) takes Harry’s blasting rod and then makes him forget she took it. What she leaves behind is the image of a tarp, and a splitting headache. SF 212:
Quote
 
Quote
“pain stabbed into my head, ice picks plunging into both temples. I flinched and doubled over. Blasting rod. Familiar words.  I fought to summon an image of what went with the words, but I could not find anything. I knew the memory associated with those words, but try as I might, I couldn’t drag it out. It was like a shape covered by some heavy tarp…”
   The second thing that happens in this book is Harry meets the isle for the first time.   There is also a small in-joke here; when researching gruff, harry find a Calvin and Hobbes book. For the non fans, the last strip of the comic had Calvin ( the too bright smart alleck) and Hobbes ( his wiser but snarky and horny friend only he can talk too) head off into a eternal winter wonderland of snow, magic, and snow goons. (yes, Mab left him a book)(that has a beware of Hobbes in joke)
 
Turn Coat and the two clue bats:

The first clue is on page 211   
After Thomas is taken, Harry searched for him magically, but never uses or mentions Little Chicago. (although damaged in WN, it is fixed by this time, note SJ).. all he describes is:
Quote
Quote
“a long table in the center of the room is covered by a canvas tarp.
.   
  Now it is important that not only does he not mention it ( he does in every other book, whether he uses it or not, he is very proud of it.) but Bob does not mention it either.    And almost the very first thing he mentions in the books is his splitting blinding headache.

The second clue is on page 215   
  Mouse come over to talk to him, gets Harrys attention, and then when Harry bends down, harry gets a second blinding headache, and loses his train of thought. This is important because it is shown later that Mouse could have found Thomas, and he certainly believed he was a match for shaggy, or at least that harry and he together were.So someone covered the table, removed the memory from Harry and Bob, and gave Harry a headache just in time to prevent him from rescuing Thomas.   

 Why would Mab do this?
  Two possible reasons: First, she believes Harry and Mouse were not a match for shaggy, or she needed Harry to bond with Demonreach for another later purpose, and Thomas being in trouble was the goad she used to get harry to do something this drastic.


The clue bats she is referring to are a WoJ about two hidden clues in TC:
Quote from: Jim Butcher, Forum Post: Turn Coat Book Discussion *MAJOR SPOILERS*
The clue bat is a tough thing to guesstimate.  I mean, I hit y'all with at least two other major things in this book that no one seems to have picked up on at all, so far. :)



What is relevant to our specific discussion here is that Bob was in the room with Harry, helping him go through tracking spells in the lab, trying to find Thomas, immediately after he learned of his capture by Shagnasty:

Quote from: Cold Days - Chapter 29
Two hours and a half a dozen attempted tracking spell later, I snarled and slapped a stack of notepads off a corner of a table in my sub-basement laboratory. They thwacked against a wall beneath Bob the Skulls's shelf, and fell to the concrete floor. "It was to be expected." Bob the Skull said very quietly.

So he did put time into trying to find Thomas with magic, but neglected to use his single most valuable tool for this sort of problem. He doesn't even mention it as an option, or even acknowledge its existence while running down a description of the room. Ms Duck points out how out of character that is, Harry is immensely proud of LC and name drops in every other book it exists in. And it is just as odd that Bob doesn't suggest using it, it's had quite a few successful outings by now. So why not?

Restating my theory with the proper timing, I think Mab has influenced / made a deal with Bob, Bonnie, and/or Id Harry by this point, agreeing to nudge Harry toward Demonreach in exchange for hiding Bonnie's existence from Harry for now. And if Bob was in on Bonnie's existence, it paints his request for a backup vessel in a whole other light, doesn't it?

One more stray piece of evidence, Harry's intuition (aka Id Harry) is the one that comes up with the idea to take Morgan to Demonreach, after brainstorming with Murphy in TC Chapter 34.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Kindler on October 04, 2017, 01:14:56 PM
...snip...

Ah, okay, with the full context it makes a bit more sense. I thought the theory was that Mab had done this in Turn Coat, even though she didn't show up in it. I'm in the middle of my reread of the series, and am just at the point in Turn Coat that Binder shows up, so I'll keep this in mind more as I finish.

Does he even mention Little Chicago in Changes or beyond? During Changes, he mentions the new summoning ring, but I don't remember specifically if he describes the giant model in the middle of the room. After Changes, he laments the loss of a lot of his stuff, but I can't recall if he brings that up specifically. In fact, given the amount of energy it contained, wasn't that in danger of exploding with all the fire? If he'd stopped maintaining it to the point that the power drained out over time, that would indicate that this is correct—that Mab took the memories from he and Bob and never returned them.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Froklsnt on October 04, 2017, 04:57:35 PM
Does he even mention Little Chicago in Changes or beyond? During Changes, he mentions the new summoning ring, but I don't remember specifically if he describes the giant model in the middle of the room. After Changes, he laments the loss of a lot of his stuff, but I can't recall if he brings that up specifically. In fact, given the amount of energy it contained, wasn't that in danger of exploding with all the fire? If he'd stopped maintaining it to the point that the power drained out over time, that would indicate that this is correct—that Mab took the memories from he and Bob and never returned them.

I just checked, and Harry does in fact note Little Chicago in his run-down of the lab in Changes, right before the FBI chases him out. So it wasn't deleted from his mind permanently. I like the thought that the magic on it degraded during that time, preventing a huge boom during the fire. We've got precedent for that kinda thing not being an issue though. In SmF, Harry comments that the Denarian's circle to contain the Archive could have "blown the top off of Demonreach" if something had gone wrong during set up, but he's able to smash it to bits with no such explosion. Apparently, for whatever reason, the energy of a working does not release quite so violently when it's being unmade, compared to when it's being built and not yet stable.

Let us not forget the text Jim spends after Harry's talk with Mab at the end SmF, where he ponders whether or not Mab just took something else from him:
Quote from: Small Favor - Chapter 46
I spent a little while poking at my memory, and trying to see if there were any if there were any holes in it that hadn't been there before. Then I spent a while more wondering if I'd be able to tell if she had taken something else. "Jesus Christ" I breathed.

Jim wouldn't spend text on this without paying it off. In his own words, he's too lazy. But it can't actually have happened right then, because LC gets mentioned in the short stories in between SmF and TC. There are a couple ways to explain this. Either Id Harry / Bonnie did it without Mab's direct intervention during TC, or Mab did it at some point around TC and took the memory of the entire encounter along with the memory of LC.

Mab getting to Bob is no problem, she had free access to the lab whenever she wanted, since Lea was a Sidhe-sicle during this period. What I would need to listen back for is if Molly presents a problem to this theory, if she was in the lab at all during TC, and was in a position to somehow bring LC up with Harry. The lab is only in one scene in the whole book I believe, so I'd guess not, but I'm unsure.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Kindler on October 04, 2017, 05:22:35 PM
I just checked, and Harry does in fact note Little Chicago in his run-down of the lab in Changes, right before the FBI chases him out. So it wasn't deleted from his mind permanently. I like the thought that the magic on it degraded during that time, preventing a huge boom during the fire. We've got precedent for that kinda thing not being an issue though. In SmF, Harry comments that the Denarian's circle to contain the Archive could have "blown the top off of Demonreach" if something had gone wrong during set up, but he's able to smash it to bits with no such explosion. Apparently, for whatever reason, the energy of a working does not release quite so violently when it's being unmade, compared to when it's being built and not yet stable.

I'm mostly thinking about the duel at the end of White Night, when Ramirez cuts through the enchanted bracer with his Warden sword. That releases the energy spectacularly violently. I couldn't imagine Little Chicago has less; Harry mentions pouring energy into it nightly for something like a month. My question is basically whether or not fire is different enough from a Warden's enchantment-unbinding blade that something similar wouldn't happen. I view the circle on Demonreach as something qualitatively different, closer to a ritual, while Little Chicago is an enchanted artifact with an energy reservoir.

Quote
Let us not forget the text Jim spends after Harry's talk with Mab at the end SmF, where he ponders whether or not Mab just took something else from him:
Jim wouldn't spend text on this without paying it off. In his own words, he's too lazy. But it can't actually have happened right then, because LC gets mentioned in the short stories in between SmF and TC. There are a couple ways to explain this. Either Id Harry / Bonnie did it without Mab's direct intervention during TC, or Mab did it at some point around TC and took the memory of the entire encounter along with the memory of LC.

I'm still not sure why this would happen in Turn Coat without Mab's direction. Bonnie would have to not only be aware of the situation, but be able to steer Harry toward Demonreach. Why would Bonnie even want to do that, assuming she had the ability to do it at all? It just seems like she's limiting Harry's options and putting him (and herself, by extension) in further danger, and I don't see the gain behind it, unless Mab (or Uriel, or someone) is cluing her into the whole situation, which I don't see happening.

Quote
Mab getting to Bob is no problem, she had free access to the lab whenever she wanted, since Lea was a Sidhe-sicle during this period. What I would need to listen back for is if Molly presents a problem to this theory, if she was in the lab at all during TC, and was in a position to somehow bring LC up with Harry. The lab is only in one scene in the whole book I believe, so I'd guess not, but I'm unsure.

Molly mentions that she was checking on her potions when Morgan attacked her the first time, but evidently didn't make it to the lab before Mouse sat on her. I haven't noticed her going down there at all thus far, but I'll keep it in mind during my reread.

I'm just not sure when Mab would've done this to him during Turn Coat. I haven't found any time that's unaccounted for yet. The only thing that makes sense is the nascent Bonnie's complicity, but that would require motive.

Heh. Maybe Molly messed with his head.

Doesn't Harry mention having a headache in Ghost Story, then insisting that he's allowed to have headaches anyway? Maybe that was another memory gap he stumbled upon that carried over to his soul walkabout.
Title: Re: bonies conception is in the book small favors
Post by: Froklsnt on October 04, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
Heh. Maybe Molly messed with his head.

Doesn't Harry mention having a headache in Ghost Story, then insisting that he's allowed to have headaches anyway? Maybe that was another memory gap he stumbled upon that carried over to his soul walkabout.

Fun idea, I'll look for that on my next through GS.

I'm still not sure why this would happen in Turn Coat without Mab's direction. Bonnie would have to not only be aware of the situation, but be able to steer Harry toward Demonreach. Why would Bonnie even want to do that, assuming she had the ability to do it at all? It just seems like she's limiting Harry's options and putting him (and herself, by extension) in further danger, and I don't see the gain behind it, unless Mab (or Uriel, or someone) is cluing her into the whole situation, which I don't see happening.

I'm just not sure when Mab would've done this to him during Turn Coat. I haven't found any time that's unaccounted for yet. The only thing that makes sense is the nascent Bonnie's complicity, but that would require motive.

As we talk through this more, I think Id Harry makes a much better culprit than Bonnie. Molly admits to having met with Id Harry when she was in his head getting Bonnie out at the end of SG, so it seems entirely possible to me that Mab could have met with him any of several times she was in Harry's head....

In fact, let me grow this one more step into full blown WAG territory. I think this idea just wandered too far afield from the original purpose of this thread, I'm going to start a new one.