ParanetOnline
Other Jimness => Cinder Spires Spoilers => Topic started by: alangerm on March 16, 2017, 05:00:46 PM
-
I know @stevef started a post like this in May 2016 (sorry if I've missed other posts like this). I just finished Codex Alera series after already reading Aeronaught's Windlass, and the similarities are striking:
1) as stevef mentioned, Alera warned of major changes in the atmosphere in response to Tavi's manipulation of the wind in First Lord's fury. This might explain the unusual environment of Cinder Spires
2) the cat-like race in Cinder Spires, the "Warriorborn", sound an awful lot like Marat, perhaps with their chala creatures being cats. Perhaps Kitai and Tavi's offspring grew into a half-human half-marat race that chose a cat as their totem/chala?
3) The spires could have been raised by earth crafters to escape something...
4) the terrifying creatures alluded to on the Cinder Spire's world's surface could be loose vord - the ones that were kept as pets by the steadholders who were under the Queen Vord's protection and spared in vord territory at the end of First Lord's fury.
5) the wax spiders = silk weavers; both are described similarly with teeth and venom. It makes me wonder wether the "real" story of the vord is that of the spiders; perhaps they are mores significant as the producers of the wax than even the queen, and perhaps they have adapted to serve and become somewhat symbiotic with humans by producing silk in the Cinder Spires world.
6) The vattery's that make the lift crystals in Cinder Spires - are they trapped wind furies or something similar? At the end of First Lord's fury, Tavi has those small fire-bombs produced by trapping fire furies in glass, and it is commented that this would usher in a new age of supremacy of non- or weak-crafters.
7) The language is similar; I can't remember if the exact term "bloody crows" is used in both, but certainly the cadence of the language continues throughout both Codex and Cinder.
8 ) the etherialists seem similar to water crafters in their prescience (something that Tavi also possessed) and their sensitivity, yet surprising power.
Anyone else notice other similarities?
Again, sorry if I've missed other posts on this. I was pretty excited when the pieces began to fit.
Jim Butcher, if you read this, thanks so much for all of the great books! I owe you my new-found love of running with audiobooks.
Cheers!
Alex
-
As far as I'm aware the spires are landed spacecraft or something similar. I believe this is a 3rd planet that he's created but it may also have races from earth or even alera.
-
There has not been any confirmation on what world the Cinder Spires is or whether it ties into Earth, Alera, or some other one. In fact, he's specifically avoided answering the question when it comes up in Q&A's, so the stink of it seems to be that it will be a plot relevant reveal.
Some of the theories Ive seen proposed are:
-It's a future post-apocalytic Alera, and crystal power is the evolution of Furycraft
-It's a future post-apocalytic Earth, and Crystal Power is the evolution of Magic
-It's an Alien World with Human Settlers from post-apocalytic Earth, and crystal Power is alien in origin
-It's an Alien World with Human Settlers from Alera (nobody has actually proposed this one that Ive seen, but I included it for symmetry.)
-It's [insert world name here], but entirely unrelated to Jim's other works, because this aint the Cosmere.
-The Silkweavers/Enemy are Vord
-The Silkweavers/Enemy are to Protoss as Vord are to Zerg (IE The Silkweavers are the galactic Enemy of the Vord).
-The Silkweavers are the Vord/zerg, and the Builders/Archangels are Protoss
-The Moon is made of cheese.
-
I don't have the book with me, and its been a while since I've read it, but in the scene where the main etherialist is trying to get drunk, the Olympian whose rooms they took comes in and the etherialist says something along the lines of, "He seems possessed by a great fury, which if you know your history is quite amusing." This is my favorite basis for an argument saying that this is Alera + some thousands of years.
-
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9b/fd/97/9bfd97e691f8ab0f5d620d673fcc1227.jpg)
-
I don't have the book with me, and its been a while since I've read it, but in the scene where the main etherialist is trying to get drunk, the Olympian whose rooms they took comes in and the etherialist says something along the lines of, "He seems possessed by a great fury, which if you know your history is quite amusing." This is my favorite basis for an argument saying that this is Alera + some thousands of years.
Unless it's a reference to classic "Furies" as relates to "Olympians" and a common greek root to both, hinting at Earth.
Culturally, I think there are a lot more similarities and easter egg style elements that point to Earth a lot more than Alera, or even Earth-by-way-of-Alera. It could all be simple convergent fantasy cultures rather than a setting relevant historic link, but there seem to be elements from several earth cultures in the various spires.
-
I don't have the book with me, and its been a while since I've read it, but in the scene where the main etherialist is trying to get drunk, the Olympian whose rooms they took comes in and the etherialist says something along the lines of, "He seems possessed by a great fury, which if you know your history is quite amusing." This is my favorite basis for an argument saying that this is Alera + some thousands of years.
While it is certainly conceivable, I see the Olympians being very Greek like, especially with all the dark wood and marble decor and laurel wreath emblem. The Pikers live on a peak and seem vaguely Celtic/Norse. Albion and Aurora seem analogous to England and Spain. If this were indeed Alera millennia later I would expect a lot more Latin and German influences. But it is intentionally a mystery so *shrug*
N
-
If I remember correctly, there had been a WOJ or video or something that said there was a possible link between the DV and Alera, even a possible bloodline link between Harry and Tavi. But that neither have links to the world of the Spires.
-
If I remember correctly, there had been a WOJ or video or something that said there was a possible link between the DV and Alera, even a possible bloodline link between Harry and Tavi. But that neither have links to the world of the Spires.
Hmmm, I very vaugley recall something along those lines, though I want to say it was delivered in more of a joking tone so folks didnt give too much weight to it. BUt the one I recall predated TAW entirely, so maybe theres a new one?
-
If I remember correctly, there had been a WOJ or video or something that said there was a possible link between the DV and Alera, even a possible bloodline link between Harry and Tavi. But that neither have links to the world of the Spires.
The problem with that would be the references to the Furies of Olympus, that's made.
-
The problem with that would be the references to the Furies of Olympus, that's made.
Meh, that reference is already being interpreted as either (or both) a reference to Alera as it is a reference of the classic Furies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erinyes)of actual Olympian myth. With those possibilities already established, that passage shouldn't stand in the way of much.
-
I'm 2/3rds the way through TAW, and I am just convinced that the Builders are earthcrafters, and the surface creatures are Vord of some sort. It makes sense from an Alaran perspective - They cannot defeat the Carnim Vord force, but they can build massive structures - archologies - that the Vord would find hard to penetrate and Alarans easy to defend.
That and before he started writing TAW, WoJ was that future Alera would be much more steam-punky.
He also said he probably wouldn't revisit Alera anytime soon. So this is just crack fan theory.
-
And I fall into the "human colony spacecraft" camp.
Food grown in vats.
Habble = habitation bubbles- square living areas inside a round bubble, one with a transluscent dome.
Ventilation, water, and waste tunnels and pipes.
The black horse inn had the 'horse' part referred to as a mythological animal.
I think that colonists from Earth landed there, only to find the combination of etheric energy and atmosphere caused rapid degradation of steel and iron. So they buried the colony ships on the tops of mountains and clad all the metal in some kind of ceramic composite, creating 'spire-stone'.
-
And I fall into the "human colony spacecraft" camp.
Food grown in vats.
Habble = habitation bubbles- square living areas inside a round bubble, one with a transluscent dome.
Ventilation, water, and waste tunnels and pipes.
The black horse inn had the 'horse' part referred to as a mythological animal.
I think that colonists from Earth landed there, only to find the combination of etheric energy and atmosphere caused rapid degradation of steel and iron. So they buried the colony ships on the tops of mountains and clad all the metal in some kind of ceramic composite, creating 'spire-stone'.
Fwiw, the spires vary widely in shape and design. I want to say that the WOJ mentioned that some were more integrated into the landscape than others (with Albion being on the less-landscape fitting end of the spectrum). That doesnt negate the theory of spacecraft at all, though it might offer clues to the circumstances (like an emergency colony evacuation as opposed to an organized Fleet.*
Lets chase it though, if they are colony ships and the builders were the human colonists of that time, what are the "Archangels" which are associated by theology and had been spotted recently as of the opening to CAW.
*Forgive me if we've already covered this, its been a while since i looked at this thread.
-
Lets chase it though, if they are colony ships and the builders were the human colonists of that time, what are the "Archangels" which are associated by theology and had been spotted recently as of the opening to CAW.
My first thought was that archangels were based off the stories of the first etherealists. After all, if there are crystals that make etheric energy into anti-gravity, then a skilled etherealist could conveivably fly on their own.
But characters do not seem to speak of the Builders with the same reverence they do of "Lord God Almighty" (and archangels by association). So that seems to me to discount that idea.
-
My first thought was that archangels were based off the stories of the first etherealists. After all, if there are crystals that make etheric energy into anti-gravity, then a skilled etherealist could conveivably fly on their own.
But characters do not seem to speak of the Builders with the same reverence they do of "Lord God Almighty" (and archangels by association). So that seems to me to discount that idea.
If that is the case, then we'd be talking about a semi-active Etherealist Faction, not just myth and Story. Per the Prologue "no less than four Fleet aeronauts have reported sightings of an Archangel, and swear they were neither drunk nor sleeping". And if we're talking a faction of Etherealists, then we are talking about a group with goals and motivations (albeit likely some damn CRAZY ones...)
-
I fall in the earth colony on foreign planet camp. The structures were designed to fit with the planet as part of the terra-forming plan. However the new planet and the terra-forming tech didn't mesh as planned, maybe the ether caused malfunctions, maybe the ether is a kinda of planet based consciousness, whatever; badness ensues and the colonists realize its gonna take more time than originally planned. However a space faring people would certainly be capable of maintaining orbit, perhaps with a majority of the crew in some type of stasis. I propose that the archangels are ships that leave either a mother ship or satellite and go planet side checking out the progress of the terra-forming. The humans are descendants of custodians that have forgotten their purpose or survivors that took shelter in the structures as the rest fled back to Heaven.
-
I don't like it, it doesn't pass the smell test.
Having a Spire Albion at all, much less putting it front and center in the story, essentially disqualifies the Aleran connection. It would very sloppy to reference things like Aurora, Olympia, or Albion in an Aleran context, considering that there is no earlier indication that earth mythology/religion exists in any form in Alera.