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Other Jimness => Cinder Spires Spoilers => Topic started by: Dina on October 22, 2015, 06:02:17 PM
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What are the scenes you liked the most? and the least? I can't decide one for the first but I am sure of the latter.
Like:
The prologue
Gwen with Kettle helping with the cristals.
Grimm watching Bridget carrying Benedict (and Rowl)
Master Ferus being attacked by 3 men.
(and about a hundred more!) :)
Don't like
The scenes preceding "Cavendish twitching a finger". Seriously, I understand we needed an excuse to see Cavendish power and why Spira was so wary of her but the excuse itself felt too forced for me. We were told that Aurorans officer are proud of being gentleman with the ladies and here we have a young officer who directly offends the woman who is having tea with his commander. He is being rude even after his commander has told him to leave the room. And he offended a lady, because Cavendish is a not so young woman with fine clothes who is having tea with Spira and protected by custodians. I think his behavior would have been rude in a pirate but was totally out of character in an Auroran officer.
(sorry, I was carried on)
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Personally, I interpreted that scene as "foolish green officers with his head full of self importance". Just because something is expected of people, doesn't mean that they follow. I do not remember the context of the scene (I'll have to re read the book), but if the officer felt like he was under pressure, stress at being in enemy territory could have made him rash.
From a Doyalist point of view, I am sure that the officer was to serve as a counter point to Cassie's similar and much more controlled, (and effective) disregard of Cavendish.
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From a Doyalist point of view, I am sure that the officer was to serve as a counter point to Cassie's similar and much more controlled, (and effective) disregard of Cavendish.
Uh...what is Doyalist? Who is Cassie? Disregard Cavendish is a foolish mistake.
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Doyalist is an out of universe for something to happen in the story (the term comes from Arthur Doyle who wrote Sherlock Holmes, and is oposite to the in universe reason as Watsonian Reason
Cassie is Ransom (the captain of the Mistshark. I couldn't recall the proper spelling of her first name, so I took a shortened version.
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I thought it could be related with Conan Doyle but I thought that would be "Doylist". Thanks for the info.
And it's Calliope, which is a very beautiful name I never use for her because I don't like her. I feel that she didn't deserves such a beautiful name :)
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All I knew was that she was named after a Muse.
As for my opinion of her, I feel like she could become a more likable character given time. We do not yet know what exactly set the divide between her and Grimm. I'm not saying that she is a nice person now, but the fact that she tried to get Grimm out of the way before hand does put some points in her favour. She's still better then Invalida.
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Who is Invalida? What an awful name!!!!!!
I am not saying Ransom is not nice, I just think she is a weak character that makes Grimm and Cavendish weaker and I just don't like her.
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That was a mispelliling on my part. I was thinking of Invidia from Codex Alera. I was remembering the name wrong because I was thinking of her being a "broken" character.
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Ah, all right. I have not read CA. Also, Invidia it's not a nice name either, as it sounds too much to "envidia" (envy)
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That does fit her.
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Loved:
Ferus and Folly
Captain Grimm as the cook
Rowl's perspective when dealing with other cats (Rowl's POV when dealing with humans less so)
Liked:
Cavendish as nearly as spooky as Mab
Gwen Lancasters bombasity and the trouble it caused
The arial combat was very well done
Did not like:
Not much
The pace seemed to slow here and there but maybe I'm too used to DF's rapid fire pace and a comparisson is unfair?
Super nitpicky but twice (I think) Jim said something to the effect of "This is the point in a story where you would expect "x" to happen, but this is not that story". Jim is too good of a writer to resort to explaining what kind of writer he isn't. Took me outside the book a bit. Like I said though, that's really nitpicky.
Great new adventure for me overall. Will reread it for sure ahead of Cinder Spires two. Also my first steampunk novel and I may just have to seek out some more. Great fun.
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Loved:
Ferus and Folly
Captain Grimm as the cook
Rowl's perspective when dealing with other cats (Rowl's POV when dealing with humans less so)
Liked:
Cavendish as nearly as spooky as Mab
Gwen Lancasters bombasity and the trouble it caused
The arial combat was very well done
Did not like:
Not much
The pace seemed to slow here and there but maybe I'm too used to DF's rapid fire pace and a comparisson is unfair?
Super nitpicky but twice (I think) Jim said something to the effect of "This is the point in a story where you would expect "x" to happen, but this is not that story". Jim is too good of a writer to resort to explaining what kind of writer he isn't. Took me outside the book a bit. Like I said though, that's really nitpicky.
Great new adventure for me overall. Will reread it for sure ahead of Cinder Spires two. Also my first steampunk novel and I may just have to seek out some more. Great fun.
But it is what a character with an understanding of narrative would say.
Too often our characters live in a world where nobody has any sense of story or genre awareness. It's fun to see characters acknowledge the conventions of storytelling versus our more postmodern trope refutation tastes.
As for liked.
Airships.
Cats, although the spurs were... Unnecesary and jarring.
Most of the story.
Dislikes.
Jim making better use of ether as a weatherish function than me.
The prologue up until the twist is revealed.
The strategic long term maladies of characters who would have killed the tension.
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The strategic long term maladies of characters who would have killed the tension.
Explain, please?
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Explain, please?
I'd venture to guess he means Ferrus becoming incapacitated at a dramatically appropriate moment and things like that.
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Ah, thank you. My only problem with that was that they wanted to recovered the things so they couldn't try and blow the Mistshark and Cavendish to Kingdom Come.
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But it is what a character with an understanding of narrative would say.
Too often our characters live in a world where nobody has any sense of story or genre awareness. It's fun to see characters acknowledge the conventions of storytelling versus our more postmodern trope refutation tastes.
A more than fair point Aminar and one that may have simply sailed over my head at the time. I'm suddenly at a loss, trying to recall if that was the characters inner monologue or the author perspective. (I read it as Jim's but could be wrong)
I had to think long and hard to find something for the "not like" portion of this particular thread and that was the nit I picked. Maybe on my reread in the future I wont think twice about it and flow right along with the story. It just felt a little like the book version of breaking the fourth wall to me at the time.
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A more than fair point Aminar and one that may have simply sailed over my head at the time. I'm suddenly at a loss, trying to recall if that was the characters inner monologue or the author perspective. (I read it as Jim's but could be wrong)
I had to think long and hard to find something for the "not like" portion of this particular thread and that was the nit I picked. Maybe on my reread in the future I wont think twice about it and flow right along with the story. It just felt a little like the book version of breaking the fourth wall to me at the time.
The books are pretty tight Third Person. Everything is character thought or observation, even if it isn't dialogue.
It does border on the fourth wall. Tv Tropes lists it as Genre Savvy.
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A more than fair point Aminar and one that may have simply sailed over my head at the time. I'm suddenly at a loss, trying to recall if that was the characters inner monologue or the author perspective. (I read it as Jim's but could be wrong)
I had to think long and hard to find something for the "not like" portion of this particular thread and that was the nit I picked. Maybe on my reread in the future I wont think twice about it and flow right along with the story. It just felt a little like the book version of breaking the fourth wall to me at the time.
One of those cases was when Bridget thought that a heroine will do such and such to try and save Folly. She decides that is not practical and that she is not a good fiction heroine. Then something happens and she does exactly that. I laughed so much (I think all the references where done in Bridget.'s mind I think that is because being a lonely teenager she loves to read/watch/whatever fiction works)
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One of those cases was when Bridget thought that a heroine will do such and such to try and save Folly. She decides that is not practical and that she is not a good fiction heroine. Then something happens and she does exactly that. I laughed so much (I think all the references where done in Bridget.'s mind I think that is because being a lonely teenager she loves to read/watch/whatever fiction works)
Both you and Aminar make a good case and this is what I get for being nitpicky. ;D You are also right about the humor, Jim's humor is constant throughout. It lead to many evenings of reading late into the night and possible "brain fog".
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I pretty much liked everything, except a few things:
I really didn't like that Bridget's second kidnapping happened without a fuss. I'd like to have seen something of a fight. It just felt so very unsatisfying.
We know Etherealists progressively grow more mad as they work with the powers. However, in the context of the book, the characters seem to remain at a static level of madness.
I somewhat feel this gives the Etherealists a bit too much power & wouldn't have minded that grand displays of power would be followed by either a temporary increase in madness, or some other drawback.
I mean, I don't see anything from stopping Lady Cavendish from pointing at every one of her enemies & getting people to claw their eyes out, just like Oprah handed out cars.
Gaunlet's overheat, but what stops an Ethrealist from just going overboard? We really were never shown.
Those are my two major issues. One I hope sees some self correction as the series goes on, the other is just a minor quibble.
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I pretty much liked everything, except a few things:
I really didn't like that Bridget's second kidnapping happened without a fuss. I'd like to have seen something of a fight. It just felt so very unsatisfying.
We know Etherealists progressively grow more mad as they work with the powers. However, in the context of the book, the characters seem to remain at a static level of madness.
I somewhat feel this gives the Etherealists a bit too much power & wouldn't have minded that grand displays of power would be followed by either a temporary increase in madness, or some other drawback.
I mean, I don't see anything from stopping Lady Cavendish from pointing at every one of her enemies & getting people to claw their eyes out, just like Oprah handed out cars.
Gaunlet's overheat, but what stops an Ethrealist from just going overboard? We really were never shown.
Those are my two major issues. One I hope sees some self correction as the series goes on, the other is just a minor quibble.
I thought the growing madness was a very gradual thing in general for etherealists. We did also see Folly nearly pass out after the lightning show with the silkweaver horde. I'd imagine there's a personal cost to channeling large amounts of energy into crystals.
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I thought the growing madness was a very gradual thing in general for etherealists. We did also see Folly nearly pass out after the lightning show with the silkweaver horde. I'd imagine there's a personal cost to channeling large amounts of energy into crystals.
Since we've only seen Folly collapse, I'm not certain to take that reaction as a given. Consider in the Alex Verus series, apprentices can get winded, but trained Mages have a nearly unlimited ability to call upon their magic.
Since we haven't seen the limits of Cavendish or Ferus, it could be the same here.
In the Alex Verus series, it's only Mage on Mage action for the most part. However, since Ethrealists have limited numbers, I'd like to see a bit more limitation on their power.
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Since we've only seen Folly collapse, I'm not certain to take that reaction as a given. Consider in the Alex Verus series, apprentices can get winded, but trained Mages have a nearly unlimited ability to call upon their magic.
Since we haven't seen the limits of Cavendish or Ferus, it could be the same here.
In the Alex Verus series, it's only Mage on Mage action for the most part. However, since Ethrealists have limited numbers, I'd like to see a bit more limitation on their power.
I wouldn't expect Jim to be hitting the full etherealists' limits in the first book of a series anyway. Overall Ferus and Cavendish didn't do much in the way of heavy lifting in this book. Ferus's shutdown of the Auroran assassins and Cavendish keeping up the reins on the silkweavers were the flashiest bits of power they threw. Folly's light show was a lot more intense.
One more thing towards the idea of a limited etherealist, the etherealists seem to need crystals to be effective. Ferus needed his staff, so he wasn't much help against the silkweaver matriarch only throwing the lighting crystals, and Folly needed her crystal jars to do most anything. Cavendish didn't seem to work directly with crystals, but the text kept referring to her large red crystal like it was more important than it might otherwise seem.
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I wouldn't expect Jim to be hitting the full etherealists' limits in the first book of a series anyway. Overall Ferus and Cavendish didn't do much in the way of heavy lifting in this book. Ferus's shutdown of the Auroran assassins and Cavendish keeping up the reins on the silkweavers were the flashiest bits of power they threw. Folly's light show was a lot more intense.
One more thing towards the idea of a limited etherealist, the etherealists seem to need crystals to be effective. Ferus needed his staff, so he wasn't much help against the silkweaver matriarch only throwing the lighting crystals, and Folly needed her crystal jars to do most anything. Cavendish didn't seem to work directly with crystals, but the text kept referring to her large red crystal like it was more important than it might otherwise seem.
Agreed, they seem to be dependent on a crystal to act as a focus. Especially if you consider how Folly described the process, it seems that the Crystals are still responsible for manipluating the energy, while the etherealist is somehow able to alter the grain patterns withint the crystals to temporarily alter their native function.
One thing though, I got the impression from Folly's encounter with it that The Enemy was the one controlling the silkweavers, not Cavendish directly.
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Agreed, they seem to be dependent on a crystal to act as a focus. Especially if you consider how Folly described the process, it seems that the Crystals are still responsible for manipluating the energy, while the etherealist is somehow able to alter the grain patterns withint the crystals to temporarily alter their native function.
One thing though, I got the impression from Folly's encounter with it that The Enemy was the one controlling the silkweavers, not Cavendish directly.
Yeah, I got the same impression about the crystal structure. As far as Cavendish, I don't think it's entirely clear who's doing the bulk of the puppeting for the silkweavers. Her preferred attacks seem to be mental anyway. I initially read it as the Enemy giving Cavendish a power boost and possibly "filling in" the holes incurred for the extra etherealist power.