ParanetOnline

Other Jimness => Cinder Spires Spoilers => Topic started by: mtcady on October 07, 2015, 06:28:30 PM

Title: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: mtcady on October 07, 2015, 06:28:30 PM

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So, in the scene where Albion is describing Spire Albion he says it is 10,000 feet tall and 2 miles wide, with 250 habbles, with 236(?) populated. The math seems to work out as the spire being a huge cube, somewhat shorter than it is wide.  That also works out to 40 feet per habble, although it would be a indeterminate amount less depending on how much spire stone is between levels. 

Using an average population density of 1000 people per square mile (because it is close to numbers for large cities and it makes the math easy) that would give us a population for spire Albion with the upper limit of a million

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Second Aristh on October 07, 2015, 11:57:53 PM

That 10,000 seems a bit low for 250 habbles if Habble Landing can be taken as an average height level. 

If we take the standard fifty feet height of a level like it says in Ch.25 to be the average height of a habble (not to mention that Habble Morning's atrium soars up two hundred feet which would have to be borrowed from other levels), then the Spire is at least 250*50=12,500 feet high in empty space alone.  That doesn't even consider the extra height of having floors between each level.  It also requires having lower habbles at or below Mist level.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Mith on October 08, 2015, 12:09:20 AM

One can take the difference in units used (feet and miles) to imply that they are more approximations of the actual dimensions.  As such, I would read the 10, 00 feet to be a rough order of magnitude to give a range between 10,000 and    15,000 feet.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: mtcady on October 08, 2015, 03:22:48 PM

Either way,  the word spire  (in my mind anyway) conjures up an image of something tall and relatively thin in comparison to its height. the given dimensions, even if they are only approximations, make spire Albion sound rather stumpy

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Mar10 on October 20, 2015, 07:14:23 PM

The word Spire, in my mind, also speaks to something more 'roundish' that 'cubish'.  10,000 ft is still WAY tall though.  Either way, it is totally not what I original thought it would be.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: aikidoka on October 21, 2015, 05:27:20 PM

10,000 ft. tall and 2 miles wide would make it wider than it is tall, which isn't very spire-like.  Unless it is 2 miles wide at the base and progressively narrower as it rises above the ground.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Maredudd on October 21, 2015, 08:26:34 PM

Well, the "Cone Albion" just doesn't sound right . . .  :D

Or the "Cube Albion" for that matter . . .  ;D

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Vinnypop on October 21, 2015, 10:10:32 PM

These to me sound like Arcologies These Theoretical structures are designed to place a large population in a vertical structure rather then spreading it out horizontal. Also note that if you assume 1000 people per square mile your not accounting for production centers, food vats and the complex ventilation systems described in the book. all of that has to fit in the 2 mile width. I also get the impression that they are walking on "open" streets. meaning that the space is set up to mimic being out side despite the fact there is a ceiling.  I'd wager that only about 75% of the Spire's Volume is usable for habitaion.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: raidem on November 05, 2015, 06:07:01 PM

Jim has said it is rather similar to a Borg cube. So per him, not very spiralish.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Tsunami on November 12, 2015, 02:56:47 PM

I think the population should be much higher...

So a habble is 2 miles by 2 miles.
That's about 3.2km by 3.2km.
That brings us to 10.24 km²

Let's assume that 1/3rd is actual living space. (that's a complete fabrication on my part based on nothing.)
That would bring us to ca. 3.41km² of living space.
3.41km² = 3410000m²
Let's assume 9m² or rather 10m² (for easy math) of space per person. Close, but not too close quarters. (a little lower that what is deemed minimum appropriate living space by social services in Germany.)

341000 habitants per habble

a habble would then have a population density of 341000 / 10,24 = 33300 people/km²

Which would be higher than Paris with around 21000 ppl/km² but less than paris' highest density districy which has about 42000 ppl/km²

We probably need to cut the number of inhabitants down a bit to account for the fact that you probably can't have more that 2 or maybe three story buildings in the habbles.

So let's just cut the number of inhabitants in half.

That would bring us to roughly 170000 people per habble and about 17000 ppl/km²

which would then lead to a theoretical maximum population of
...
250 habbles * 170000 people
…
42.500.000 people per spire.

Sound's like a Borg-Cube to me.

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: Ulfgeir on November 12, 2015, 11:02:06 PM

Quote from: Tsunami on November 12, 2015, 02:56:47 PM

I think the population should be much higher...

So a habble is 2 miles by 2 miles.
That's about 3.2km by 3.2km.
That brings us to 10.24 km²

Let's assume that 1/3rd is actual living space. (that's a complete fabrication on my part based on nothing.)
That would bring us to ca. 3.41km² of living space.
3.41km² = 3410000m²
Let's assume 9m² or rather 10m² (for easy math) of space per person. Close, but not too close quarters. (a little lower that what is deemed minimum appropriate living space by social services in Germany.)

341000 habitants per habble

a habble would then have a population density of 341000 / 10,24 = 33300 people/km²

Which would be higher than Paris with around 21000 ppl/km² but less than paris' highest density districy which has about 42000 ppl/km²

We probably need to cut the number of inhabitants down a bit to account for the fact that you probably can't have more that 2 or maybe three story buildings in the habbles.

So let's just cut the number of inhabitants in half.

That would bring us to roughly 170000 people per habble and about 17000 ppl/km²

which would then lead to a theoretical maximum population of
...
250 habbles * 170000 people
…
42.500.000 people per spire.

Sound's like a Borg-Cube to me.

Or a very small city in the Warhammer 40K-universe...

/Ulfgeir

Title: Re: Spire dimensions and populations
Post by: kazimmoinuddin on November 22, 2015, 03:19:42 AM

I am wondering just how far down the spire reaches. Such a huge construction likely needs a lot of reinforcement in it foundations. The spire is an archology, a common version is an underground environment.

I have found nine names of spires so far, but who knows how many more there are. From a a description from folly, the ether lines are influenced by the spires as they act as sinks drawing energy to feed the spires systems, but what else do the spires use this power from. If you think about it, spires are a form of pseudo crystal which channels the power.
 Only ships have power cores, I wonder if something could've set up so that spires act as power cores allowing devices powered but them can be shared amongsth the common population. Electricity for all.