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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Belial666 on June 26, 2014, 03:14:15 AM

Title: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Belial666 on June 26, 2014, 03:14:15 AM
I've always seen Recovery as really weak compared to the other physical powers. For example, Inhuman Recovery allows you to get rid of 2 stress worth of consequence, once per scene, for a supplemental action. Inhuman Toughness effectively reduces stress by 1 from every attack and gives you 2 extra stress boxes that could hold a 5 and 6 stress hit AND it takes no action to use. Inhuman Speed increases your chance to dodge attacks by 30% at least, and gives you an equally better chance to do Athletics maneuvers, and makes you faster, and gives you combat mobility without penalties, and gives you a stealth bonus. The differences become more pronounced at higher levels of ability. Thus, I decided to make a rewrite of the Recovery powers;

[-2] Inhuman Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Fast Recovery: once per exchange you may heal 1 physical stress, emptying your first stress box or moving a higher-level filled stress mark one step to the left. Alternatively, once per 2 exchanges you may heal a mild physical consequence.
Improved Endurance: you recover faster than normal. You may miss a few days of sleep without negative effects, and higher-level consequences recover as if they were one step less severe.

[-4] Supernatural Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Rapid Recovery: once per exchange you may heal 2 physical stress, emptying your first or second stress box or moving a higher-level filled stress mark two steps to the left. Alternatively, once per exchange you may heal a mild physical consequence.
Supernatural Endurance: you recover much faster than normal. You may miss a couple weeks of sleep without negative effects, and higher-level consequences recover as if they were two steps less severe.

[-6] Mythic Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Extreme Recovery: once per exchange you may heal 3 physical stress, emptying your first, second or third stress box or moving a higher-level filled stress mark three steps to the left. Alternatively, once per exchange you may heal two mild physical consequences.
Extreme Endurance: you recover at fantastic speeds. You never get tired or exhausted, and all consequences except extreme recover by the beginning of the next scene.

[-8] Legendary Recovery
Musts: relevant high concept
Skills Affected: none
Effects:
Instantaneous Recovery: you recover from any physical stress immediately after each blow. Unless a blow deals consequences or takes you out, don't bother noting it down.
Boundless Endurance: you never get tired or exhausted, not even from hostile or magical effects that would force you to be so. At the end of each exchange, you may recover from a physical consequence other than extreme. At the end of each scene, you may recover from an extreme physical consequence, including death. The only way you can be stopped is total bodily destruction (merely tearing you to pieces won't cut it) or exposure to lasting damage or force (such as being impaled or crushed by falling boulders and the source of harm not removed for a prolonged time)
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: PirateJack on June 26, 2014, 03:52:00 AM
The Recovery powers aren't weak, they're just not designed for combat situations.

Recovery powers are meant to be used over the course of a few battles, gradually whittling the enemy down while you heal and are ready to fight before their consequences are healed.

I mean, Supernatural Recovery gives you the ability to get rid of everything but an extreme consequence the scene after you take them. So while regular folks are still suffering from the Concussion (Moderate Physical Consequence) you inflicted on them, you're fully healed up and ready for round two. If you take up the harassment angle, you're able to stay awake for a lot longer than they are as well. So it'd go Fight Scene - Recovery Scene - Fight - Recovery - Fight (Exhausted Enemy) - Recovery - Fight (Oh God Make It Stop) - Recovery, and so on.

It's a pretty effective way of modelling the Dresden Files in general, actually. Harry never goes into the climactic boss scene without a few consequences, mostly accrued because of various mooks that have managed to ninja star him into submission.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on June 26, 2014, 04:33:33 AM
You think Recovery is underpowered?

This is a joke, right?
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on June 26, 2014, 05:49:08 AM
Recovery is one of those powers that are much better on PCs than NPCs. That said, this isn't necessarily something that must be fixed, unlike the inverse situation.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Taran on June 26, 2014, 12:56:15 PM
I take recovery before toughness when it comes down to a choice between the two
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Wordmaker on June 26, 2014, 02:36:18 PM
I find recovery powers much more broadly useful than toughness. Toughness has such a brief utility, while recovery means you're always back in the fight before anybody else. This is especially useful if you run a big climactic battle as a sequence of separate conflicts. Doing so makes each stage of the battle a different scene, so if you have recovery powers, you have a distinct advantage.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Mr. Death on June 26, 2014, 04:52:00 PM
For once I'm in total agreement with Sanctaphrax. Recovery is extremely useful in a textual and metatextual sense. Even the lowest level means anything but Extreme consequences go away within a session, and at high levels Severe consequences are gone instantly -- a shotgun blast to the chest has healed up almost before you even hit the floor.

And on a metatext level, it means the player is going to go all out more; I have one player who used to spend the lion's share of his fate points avoiding hits, then he took a recovery power and he's letting himself get hammered left and right because he knows he'll be fine soon enough anyway.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Belial666 on June 26, 2014, 05:40:08 PM
Eh? Toughness powers and Speed Powers could absorb way more stress per fight than Recovery powers. Here's a rather extreme example of three combatants;

Combatant A has Mythic Recovery, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant B has Mythic Speed, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant C has Mythic Toughness, superb athletics and OOOO(OOOOOO) armor 3 stress.

Over the course of an average campaign against multiple enemies they are attacked by, in separate fights;
a) 20x weapon 2 attack +3 thugs using pistols.
b) 10x weapon 5 attack +5 inhumanly strong warrior using a sword.
c) 4x weapon 8 attack +8 wizard with a spell.

Combatant A takes 4 hits in fight a, enters fight b fully recovered and takes 5 hits he has to use all his consequences on to survive, enters fight c fully recovered and dies at the third or fourth wizard spell unless he takes an extreme.
Combatant B is never hit in fight a, is never hit in fight B if he uses a maneuver or two, and has 50% chance to survive in fight c.
Combatant C ignores all hits from fight a, tanks the hits from fight b easily, and tanks the hits from fight c easily.



As you can see, the ability of Recovery powers to enter each fight fully healed is pretty much shared between the three defensive abilities in the game. Given a fight where a guy with recovery won't die, another guy with the same level of speed won't be hit enough to take consequences and a guy with toughness will tank the hits without taking consequences better than either speed or recovery.

So, how exactly is Recovery better for multiple subsequent fights?
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: bobjob on June 26, 2014, 05:42:44 PM
Recovery powers are FP generators. Take a few consequences, get a few FPs, and clear out the consequences in a scene or two (depending on the level you buy).

Then when you get to that really tough fight, cash in your FPs to help avoid hits so you're not taken out as easily.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Taran on June 26, 2014, 05:45:00 PM
Recovery powers are FP generators. Take a few consequences, get a few FPs, and clear out the consequences in a scene or two (depending on the level you buy).

Then when you get to that really tough fight, cash in your FPs to help avoid hits so you're not taken out as easily.

You only gain those FP's if you concede the conflict, though.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Belial666 on June 26, 2014, 05:46:46 PM
Yep. And if you lose a conflict to the typical dark powers in the Dresdenverse...
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Mr. Death on June 26, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
Eh? Toughness powers and Speed Powers could absorb way more stress per fight than Recovery powers. Here's a rather extreme example of three combatants;

Combatant A has Mythic Recovery, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant B has Mythic Speed, superb athletics and OOOO stress.
Combatant C has Mythic Toughness, superb athletics and OOOO(OOOOOO) armor 3 stress.

Over the course of an average campaign against multiple enemies they are attacked by, in separate fights;
a) 20x weapon 2 attack +3 thugs using pistols.
b) 10x weapon 5 attack +5 inhumanly strong warrior using a sword.
c) 4x weapon 8 attack +8 wizard with a spell.

Combatant A takes 4 hits in fight a, enters fight b fully recovered and takes 5 hits he has to use all his consequences on to survive, enters fight c fully recovered and dies at the third or fourth wizard spell unless he takes an extreme.
Combatant B is never hit in fight a, is never hit in fight B if he uses a maneuver or two, and has 50% chance to survive in fight c.
Combatant C ignores all hits from fight a, tanks the hits from fight b easily, and tanks the hits from fight c easily.



As you can see, the ability of Recovery powers to enter each fight fully healed is pretty much shared between the three defensive abilities in the game. Given a fight where a guy with recovery won't die, another guy with the same level of speed won't be hit enough to take consequences and a guy with toughness will tank the hits without taking consequences better than either speed or recovery.

So, how exactly is Recovery better for multiple subsequent fights?
I have a problem with these scenarios, starting with their implausibility.

The first two scenarios, generally speaking, are just not going to happen. I've never had a conflict where one character took 20 or 10 attacks unless it was an absurdly tough boss, with good defenses, at least Supernatural Toughness and, most importantly, the players hadn't figured out their weakness.

There's also the ability to recover from mild consequences mid-fight. The guy with Recovery, in fact, has 6 consequences he can use up before Extreme, 7 if he has high Endurance. And if Character B is making maneuvers, presumably so is the Recovery guy.

It's also discounting play styles in such a way as to weight the examples toward the guys with speed and toughness. An enemy wizard who's up against someone with Mythic Toughness will find and use his weakness if it's even remotely possible (or, just as likely, use three of his four spells as maneuvers to boost one last big one).
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: bobjob on June 26, 2014, 06:14:55 PM
You only gain those FP's if you concede the conflict, though.

True, and how often does Harry get beaten up and have to concede? Now that he's got a Recovery power, he's got a lot more staying power in the long run because it frees up consequences quicker. When you finally get to the logical end game of a story, he's got plenty of FPs to toss around and consequence slots that are free because they've healed quicker over the course of the story.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Wordmaker on June 26, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
It's way more fun to concede several times over the course of a story arc, and save the smackdown for the finalé!
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: bobjob on June 26, 2014, 06:41:09 PM
It's way more fun to concede several times over the course of a story arc, and save the smackdown for the finalé!

Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on June 26, 2014, 07:14:53 PM
Belial, your example is misleading for three major reasons.

First, it assumes Recovery guy and Speed guy aren't wearing armour. They should really be wearing armour.

Second, it's all about a large number of attacks. When you're faced with a lot of trash attacks, Speed is awesome and Recovery is weak. When you're faced with a single ridiculous alpha-strike, Recovery is awesome and Speed is weak. Toughness is always pretty good.

Third, it uses Mythics. Recovery is kinda front-loaded...from nothing to Inhuman is huge, but from Supernatural to Mythic is a bit underwhelming. If I was gonna monkey with Recovery, I'd focus on the Mythic tier.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: narphoenix on June 26, 2014, 07:16:36 PM
For once I'm in total agreement with Sanctaphrax.

Oh great, now I have to worry about Armageddon. Thanks a lot. Anyone know any nearby predicted end of the world dates?

 ;D
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Belial666 on June 26, 2014, 10:44:14 PM
@Large numbers of attacks:
The first combat is against a group of thugs. 6 thugs which can be taken out with 1 attack each, more or less. About 20 attacks is pretty much how it ends up.
The second combat is against a duo of mid-power guys that could be taken out in about 3 attacks each. 9-10 attacks by the time you win is pretty much how it ends up.
The fourth combat with the wizard is how many offensive spells the NPC wizard would have available for offense.
Several fights in the books are way bigger and uglier than that as far as opponent numbers go.

@maneuvers;
The guy with the speed is assumed to succeed in the maneuvers he needs because he rolls athletics at Legendary. The other guys will not be successful all of the time. And if you spend an exchange for 1 maneuver you might not succeed in, more numerous opponents can do the same - and they get more chances to succeed.

@alpha strike;
You can't alpha-strike a speedster. He goes first. He can take as many turns as he wants moving 3 zones and around a corner and then doing an athletics-related maneuver at his Legendary athletics. He'll be committing to the attack only when he has you "Outflanked", "Outmaneuvered", and when he's "In Perfect Balance", has a "Running Start" and he's "Attacking From Behind", so either his first defense is a whopping +18 and you'll miss or his first attack will be sufficiently boosted to hit you with a couple consequences.

@no armor:
If you want an armor that would work vs all attack types and doesn't get destroyed after stopping a few blows, you need either Toughness or an Item of Power that happens to be armor. Normal armor won't work in all cases and it can easily be broken.
That said, normal armor only skews the results in comparison to toughness.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on June 26, 2014, 10:52:43 PM
I'm not saying the attack number is unrealistic, just that it gives the wrong idea of how good the Powers in question are.

And yes, you can't get universal armour. But you can get pretty broad armour. And if you don't have Toughness, you really should.

As for the going first and maneuvering plan, there are four issues with it. The first is that the other guy can maneuver too. So you really aren't profiting that much, tag-wise. You might even fall behind, if you're out-numbered or out-skilled. The second is that you won't always have a convenient corner available. Even when you do, the other guy might be able to hit you through it. The third is that you won't always go first. There are always ambushes and landmines and other such things. And the fourth is that if you hoard your tags too long, they go away. So it's a situational plan at best.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Wordmaker on June 27, 2014, 07:10:53 AM
I don't know if this has been considered, but as regards whether to pick Recovery powers or Toughness, etc, not every character concept suits Toughness, just like not every character concept suits Recovery. Sometimes the choice is more than mechanical benefit.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on June 27, 2014, 09:01:04 AM
I don't know if this has been considered, but as regards whether to pick Recovery powers or Toughness, etc, not every character concept suits Toughness, just like not every character concept suits Recovery. Sometimes the choice is more than mechanical benefit.

Actually, that's what it all boils down to. Game balance is ultimately done with the intention that no one be penalised for roleplay choices when building their characters.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Wordmaker on June 27, 2014, 10:06:23 AM
Fate is one of the few systems I know where, even though characters will have different strengths and weaknesses, it's very hard to build a character that's penalised for roleplay-related character creation choices. There are just so many ways to tackle a given challenge or threat within the rules, that focusing on combat ability can leave every problem looking like a nail.

Even so, some abilities are simply "better" mechanically than others. Channeling (Fire) is frequently a solid bet if you want strong offensive abilities, because fire hurts most things. But it doesn't fit every character.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Belial666 on June 27, 2014, 10:58:53 AM
Actually, it's still pretty easy for roleplaying to penalize character ability. Prime example is the early Harry Dresden; his high conviction but low discipline coupled with his total lack of diplomacy amounted for 90% of all problems in his early carreer. All his problems that this caused were very entertaining to read in a book, in which they were part of the plot. They would have been far less entertaining and more frustrating to play in a game though.

Think of it this way; a purely roleplaying drawback in the game warrants a Fate Point every time it comes up. Having poor discipline so that your spells are only Power/Control 4 whereas a different build would have given you Power/Control 7-8 doesn't warrant a Fate Point - even though the skill choice in the first place was a roleplaying issue.

That's why mechanical equivalence of choices in character creation must exist.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Wordmaker on June 27, 2014, 11:10:49 AM
If you find you've got a shortcoming in your skills or abilities, take an aspect that reflects it as part of your nature, and self-compel so that you do get Fate Points for them. Low Discipline and high Conviction? Give yourself the aspect "Loose Cannon, Fully Loaded" and let rip. No Rapport to speak of? Take "Social Bulldozer" and cause all kinds of problems when tact and civility are called for.

Maybe I'm unusual in this, but the kind of rollercoaster ride that Harry goes through in the books is exactly what I want from a game. Whether as a player or a GM, seeing the PCs always at an advantage gets really dull.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on June 27, 2014, 01:14:23 PM
But Harry has Listening and First Lawbreaker, both of which he basically never uses. He doesn't get to self-Compel a WASTED ONE REFRESH ON LISTENING Aspect, he just has one less Refresh.

And he'd get more out of Great Lore and Good Endurance than he does out of Good Lore and Great Endurance. But his skills are what they are.

That's what gimping yourself in DFRPG looks like. It's not as bad as gimping yourself in some other systems, I'm happy to say.

Low Discipline and high Conviction? Give yourself the aspect "Loose Cannon, Fully Loaded" and let rip.

You'd be better off doing this with high Discipline. After all, Discipline is important for doing damage. And it's not like self-controlled people can't be loose cannons.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: PatchR on June 27, 2014, 01:30:56 PM
Harry actually concedes ... a lot. He runs away, everytime he runs from a fight? It's a concession. When he passes out, and wakes up a prisoner? That's a concession. When he passes out, out of combat, it's a compel on his consequences.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Taran on June 27, 2014, 01:33:19 PM
Harry actually concedes ... a lot. He runs away, everytime he runs from a fight? It's a concession. When he passes out, and wakes up a prisoner? That's a concession. When he passes out, out of combat, it's a compel on his consequences.

hmmm...maybe I need to be tougher on my players....:D
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Wordmaker on June 27, 2014, 01:43:27 PM
But Harry has Listening and First Lawbreaker, both of which he basically never uses. He doesn't get to self-Compel a WASTED ONE REFRESH ON LISTENING Aspect, he just has one less Refresh.

And he'd get more out of Great Lore and Good Endurance than he does out of Good Lore and Great Endurance. But his skills are what they are.

Of course, I'm just giving examples of ways to turn apparent weaknesses in a character build into a narrative-building part of the character.

I mean when you get right down to it, there's almost no reason anyone would want to take a Lawbreaker stunt, unless you're planning to go all-out in breaking that particular law. Though even with that, the more you take it, the more you have to change your aspects to reflect its effect on you. So it's clearly in keeping with the spirit of the rules to take aspects that reflect how your skills and stunts/powers define your character.

You'd be better off doing this with high Discipline. After all, Discipline is important for doing damage. And it's not like self-controlled people can't be loose cannons.

Certainly! It's all up to the player. It all adds to the character and their own personal story. A self-controlled loose cannon can be someone who has utterly rational and carefully-planned reasons for breaking the rules. A very nice twist on the typical "maverick cop" stereotype.

Harry actually concedes ... a lot. He runs away, everytime he runs from a fight? It's a concession. When he passes out, and wakes up a prisoner? That's a concession. When he passes out, out of combat, it's a compel on his consequences.

Yep, this exactly! I try to encourage my players to focus on their aspects over their abilities. Aspects are far more important for seeing how the story goes.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Mr. Death on June 27, 2014, 02:20:21 PM
But Harry has Listening and First Lawbreaker, both of which he basically never uses. He doesn't get to self-Compel a WASTED ONE REFRESH ON LISTENING Aspect, he just has one less Refresh.
I wouldn't say he never uses them. He Listens all the time, especially in the early books. He uses it in Skin Game.

As for First Lawbreaker, I'd have to read it again, but is the +1 bonus specific to breaking the law again, or to attacking with intent to kill? Because Harry does the latter all the time, and a loose interpretation would let him use that bonus frequently.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Taran on June 27, 2014, 02:34:34 PM
As for First Lawbreaker, I'd have to read it again, but is the +1 bonus specific to breaking the law again, or to attacking with intent to kill? Because Harry does the latter all the time, and a loose interpretation would let him use that bonus frequently.

This is how I GM Lawbreaker:

You can use it ANY time you like against whomever you like.  The caveat is if you Take Someone Out, the victim suffers the full effects of the Law-breaking spell.

Example:  If you have the Lawbreaker Power that gives +1 to kill, and you Take Someone out whilst using it, they die.  You may not dictate the outcome of the attack as "they are now unconscious".

Then the player gets to choose when/where they use the bonus and they are accepting the risk of breaking the law again.  It puts the Onus on the player.

Edit:  Sorry...that last comment is very off-topic.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on June 27, 2014, 03:22:12 PM
I wouldn't say he never uses them. He Listens all the time, especially in the early books. He uses it in Skin Game.

As for First Lawbreaker, I'd have to read it again, but is the +1 bonus specific to breaking the law again, or to attacking with intent to kill? Because Harry does the latter all the time, and a loose interpretation would let him use that bonus frequently.

I can't speak for Skin Game (still trying to find a copy), but I once went through a list of all the times he actually used Listening throughout the entire series and got 4, maybe 5 occasions. Given the actual number of times he used it, he would have been much better off keeping one fate point in reserve to get it as a temporary power.

RAW, only specific to breaking the law again. Though IME this is frequently houseruled.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Cadd on June 27, 2014, 09:09:03 PM
I can't speak for Skin Game (still trying to find a copy), but I once went through a list of all the times he actually used Listening throughout the entire series and got 4, maybe 5 occasions. Given the actual number of times he used it, he would have been much better off keeping one fate point in reserve to get it as a temporary power.

RAW, only specific to breaking the law again. Though IME this is frequently houseruled.

4 or 5 times in the books total?!? I haven't counted, but I get the impression of it occurring in something like two thirds of the books...
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on June 28, 2014, 02:29:46 AM
4 or 5 times in the books total?!? I haven't counted, but I get the impression of it occurring in something like two thirds of the books...

Yup. I suppose I might have missed one or two where he didn't explicitly state he was Listening but was using it, but basically he seldom uses that power - there are many books where it just doesn't come up. And when it does he just uses it for a not particularly important situation then it's never brought up again for the rest of the book.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on June 28, 2014, 10:40:19 PM
I counted 6 (including Skin Game), but that's still less than half.  Hell, Harry generates enough compels to not even need to keep that FP in reserve.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Cadd on June 30, 2014, 11:12:43 PM
Using a quick word-search through the e-books of Storm Front to Changes the only books without explicit Listening among those are Grave Peril and Small Favor. Most of the books have multiple occasions, with Dead Beat in the lead so far with 6 separate scenes. (Of course not every time yields any results)
I'm fairly confident there's no Listening in Ghost Story, and unsure about Cold Days. Skin Game has one time.

That leaves at the most 4 out of 15 books without Listening, and at least 23 total uses. I though "4 or 5" times felt really low...
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: narphoenix on June 30, 2014, 11:19:38 PM
Cold Days has Listening when Harry was trying to track Fix on the island when the most was up, before he used intellectus.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Cadd on June 30, 2014, 11:40:12 PM
Cold Days has Listening when Harry was trying to track Fix on the island when the most was up, before he used intellectus.
Ah! Forgot that one! Haven't gotten to a word search of the last  three books yet.
That makes it 12/15 books featuring Listening.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: PatchR on July 01, 2014, 12:44:27 AM
I applaud Cadd and narphoenix for their research
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 01, 2014, 01:16:40 AM
Does anyone have a list? I don't remember him using it much, but honestly I don't remember the series half as well as I remember Your Story.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on July 01, 2014, 01:21:34 AM
Storm Front: IIRC, Listening was introduced here, though I;m not sure how.
Summer Knight: When he speaks to Rashid in the theatre where the Council assembled
Turn Coat: When he eavesdrops on the Merlin and Listens-to-Wind
Cold Days: As stated above.
Skin Game: Apparently he used it again here.

That's all I can remember for now.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Cadd on July 01, 2014, 04:10:17 PM
In doing the quick research I made a list, but it's in swedish so I'll have to translate it ;) I'll get it up later today!

Edit: And here it is! Just the novels, and one or two of these might be debatable if he's Listening or just eavsdropping. Also note that some of these moments he essentially gets nothing from it.

SF: Before the meeting w Bianca, eavesdropping on the guards; (debatable if Listening or not) outside his office, when Murphy's been stung; (as above) at Sells lakehouse - 1-3 times
FM: In the warehouse when he first sees the Alphas; in the Full Moon Garage (first visit); On McFinn's grounds before he's arrested; Right after he's entered Marcones estate - 4 times
GP: - 0 times
SK: at Reuel's appartment; at Reuel's funeral; outside WalMart when he's getting the car - 3 times
DM: At the harbor (by the Etranger); the Carpenter house (before meeting Molly in the treehouse); at the auction ball - 3 times
BR: Inari on the phone w papa Raith; the attack on Mavra's Scurge - 2 times
DB: at Georgia's place after the "fight" with Cowl; at the Field Museum (Bartlesby's office); Li Xian & Corpsetaker at the Forensic Institute; Corpsetaker at Bock's; before leaving the appartment after the zombie attack; Field Museum when looking for the Word - 6 times
PG: at Pell's theatre - 1 time
WN: Thomas' appartment (the guard and the cop); Raith Deeps (Vitto/Madrigal) - 2 times
SmF: - 0 times
TC: in LaFortiers chambers (Merlin/LtW) - 1 time
C: after running in to the Rampire in the jungle - 1 time
GS: - 0 times
CD: just for a moment in the fight with Fix, before consulting Intellectus - 1 time
(click to show/hide)
- 2 times

For a total of 27-29 times, spread over 12 of the 15 novels. Doing the short stories will be another time ;)
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on July 03, 2014, 03:32:34 PM
Only just saw it, sorry; edits don't show in the new replies function.  :(

Anyway, that list seems off to me. Did you count only those moments where it was explicitly shown that Dresden used Listening, as in his (probably supernatural) ability, or every instance that just said he was listening carefully?
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Cadd on July 03, 2014, 10:13:26 PM
Apart from the second and third time in SF which are both unclear all of those are absolutely explicit occasions of Listening, either with capital letter in the middle of a sentence or the standard description of "tuning out the other senses", or often both.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: gojj on July 03, 2014, 10:26:01 PM
Hey guys, this has strayed pretty far from what the topic of the discussion was supposed to be about, just saying.
Title: Re: Fixing Recovery powers.
Post by: Locnil on July 04, 2014, 04:30:20 AM
Ah. Alright, then.