How do you expect these two forces to interact in the long term?
Personally I'm expecting the Soulfire to change the Winter Knight mantle.
sapph42: When Dresden killed Aurora, her power flowed to the nearest vessel of Summer, which happened to be the presumably mortal Lily (the Summer Knight). If Dresden killed Maeve, would he become a Winter Lord, or are there rules in place mandating gender?
Jim: 3) There are rules in places of course. (On the other hand, Harry's the kind of guy that says, "That's what my captain keeps telling me.") But the real rule in play here would be a much simpler one: you can't fill a cup that is already full. You need an empty one. Or a really big one that isn't topped off.
The implication here is that if Harry were a cup, or vessel for Jobs/Mantles, then he is full to capacity, and can't take no more. We know that Lily got the Summer Lady mantle when she was the Summer Knight, so that alone isn't enough to mandate that Harry's cup is too full, so what Mantles does Harry wear/Job descriptions does he hold?
By the way, if I missed a job/title that could be considered taking up volume in Harry's "cup" please mention it for consideration in "the list"'Za lord.
There are so many inappropriate cup size jokes I could make here....
And seeing this makes me want to dust off my old giant theory skills, I don't think I've done any giant theories since the Yogg-Saron one on the old WoW Story forum and the Darkspawn as Bioweapons one.
i'm not sure that the winter mantle and the wardens mantel will get lumped into on mantel then demonreach and mab would have to choose harry sucsesor... will they feed and grow in to two changed mantles while being in one person while using soulfire i can get on board with that
You touch on some important points that I didn't address in my post.the way i see Demonreach and mab are in the same field of work so maybe they could be alies??? iwag that the island and the outergates touch
The thing is, if the two mantles merged, that means that Demonreach would fall into Winter's sphere of influence. Mab's comments to Demonreach at the end of GS, and Harry's command to Demonreach about interring her if she kills him at the end of CD strongly imply that the Wardenship is DEFINITELY not under Mab's purview as it stands now, whereas the Winter Knight Mantle is nothing but an extension of her own power that must be wielded by a mortal vessel.
Those two qualities are kinda exclusive, and that oil and water exclusion would have to be addressed for this WAG to work. One of the reasons why I think this might work out is that Winter didn't always have custodianship over the Outer Gates... Which is evidence that the Winter purview does change.
There are so many inappropriate cup size jokes I could make here....
And seeing this makes me want to dust off my old giant theory skills, I don't think I've done any giant theories since the Yogg-Saron one on the old WoW Story forum and the Darkspawn as Bioweapons one.
The Mantles do change over time (usually centuries). Vadderung said as much. How much do they change and how rapidly probably depends on what the being who is using the mantel is doing. I think Harry may be able to change the WK mantle some. He is really powerful, strong willed and stubborn.
Hmm... Not sure, but isn't there a WOJ saying how mortals can change the Fae, but they won't change on their own? Maybe in connection with Toot, but I could be wrong. Will look around later.
No free will ever? Or no free will to disobey when commanded? I don't know that it's possible to have intellect without will. Well, then again, most of us have to make decisions about what is true, and what isn't, or what to remember and forget - but a spirit of intellect is mostly just a talking library, right? A storehouse. Although, Bob seems to also understand what he knows... I'm getting over my head.
Well, I don't want to hand out too much outside the context of an actual story. But within the context of the Dresden books, Bob isn't, like, an actual mortal person.
Mortals are the ones who have free will, the ability to choose what they're doing, to choose between right and wrong. Without getting too thickly into the underlying philosophy, that's the thing that separates, for example, mankind from the angels--the angels didn't get the same kind of choice about their existance, and what they would do with it. Mortals get the chance to make all kinds of decisions, and can change their minds, well, at will. Other creatures, though they may look like people, don't get the same range of choices about who and what they will be.
Mab, for example, is Mab. She /can't/ show up and suddenly be merciful, generous, patient and kind. It would never so much as occur to her to do so, because it isn't a fundamental part of her nature, and she /can't/ choose to change it. She simply isn't capable. She doesn't have free will in the same way that people do. It's related to the difference between having a soul and not having a soul, as well. Without a soul, you aren't free to choose how you will shape that soul. You just stay what you are.
But that's getting way off the subject of Bob. I mean, don't you think that if he had totally free will, he'd be out of the skull all the time, hitching rides in people's heads on their way into strip bars or something? There's a reason he obeys Harry, and it's not purely because Harry offers him shelter from a gruesome demise. It's a part of who and what he is.
Another question: Does Bob know everything all the time, or just know when he is asked a question? Can he ask himself questions? (wouldn't that involve will?)
He doesn't know everything. He knows a LOT. There's a difference. He's been alive for centuries and worked with a lot of different wizards, and he remembers absolutely everything he is exposed to. He's an enormous source of information and practical experience, not a conduit to infinite knowledge. He's got limits. He can ask himself questions and attempt to extrapolate answers based upon what he knows, or by asking other spirits for answers, or by venturing out and seeking the answers himself, but he doesn't just pull knowledge out of nowhere. He just LIKES having it, and getting more of it. That's what he is. He's innocent (more or less) of the whole question of good and evil. His existance is focused on questions and answers, upon simply acquiring the knowledge, and that's that.
Which is not to say that he could never become anything more. Especially if he hangs around with mortals a lot. Mortals, in their own possession of free will, have a tendancy to influence beings who don't have it, in one way or another. I suppose it's entirely possible, for example, that too much association with mortals are what changed Aurora, former Summer Lady, and gave her a determination to destroy the natural order in an effort to change its very nature--for the better, true, but it would never even have occurred to any of the other Queens, Mothers or Lady that such a thing might be, until it had already happened. It isn't in their nature.
But perhaps I've said too much. I'll shut up now.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28481.msg1220859.html#msg1220859that [the bolded part]... doesn't sound like Nemesis.
As far as possible mantles go we are forgetting mouse. Ancient mai was shocked that harry had mouse, exclaiming why is he allowed to keep him. There is more going on with mouse than we have realised. I believe jim has even stated that mouse is more clued in than harry though i am paraphrasing there and may have done so incorrectly.i would think that harry was aloud to keep mouse was because mouse chose harry and i'd like to see any one take harry away from mouse
I have a feeling that Mantles (like magic) change slowly over time as the world around them (and the purpose that they serve) changes.i like the idea of the mantle changing with the host so if you have a bunch of weak will knight in a row the mantel would increse the desirse of the next knight maybe harry resisting the mantle with soul fire it will change more quickly but the mantle will always have a preditory instinct
I think that it is likely that Harry (and hopefully Molly as well) changes the mantle as he resists its influence.
I actually sort of interpret the overall story arc of the series as Harry being at the nexus of a changing of the guard in the supernatural community as a whole. Every institution that Harry involves himself with seems to be altered by him in some fashion and his 'modern' and 'mortal centric' sensibilities are both changing existing institutions (changing the self-image of the younger wardens and reshaping the social structure of the Little Folk being the most obvious examples) and creating new institutions (Baron Marcone, Paranet, BFS, etc.).
IMO, this is what Harry most has in common with the original Merlin - I think that he is at the center of reshaping the supernatural landscape (especially as it relates to mortals).
You touch on some important points that I didn't address in my post.
The thing is, if the two mantles merged, that means that Demonreach would fall into Winter's sphere of influence. Mab's comments to Demonreach at the end of GS, and Harry's command to Demonreach about interring her if she kills him at the end of CD strongly imply that the Wardenship is DEFINITELY not under Mab's purview as it stands now, whereas the Winter Knight Mantle is nothing but an extension of her own power that must be wielded by a mortal vessel.
Those two qualities are kinda exclusive, and that oil and water exclusion would have to be addressed for this WAG to work. One of the reasons why I think this might work out is that Winter didn't always have custodianship over the Outer Gates... Which is evidence that the Winter purview does change.
You touch on some important points that I didn't address in my post.
The thing is, if the two mantles merged, that means that Demonreach would fall into Winter's sphere of influence. Mab's comments to Demonreach at the end of GS, and Harry's command to Demonreach about interring her if she kills him at the end of CD strongly imply that the Wardenship is DEFINITELY not under Mab's purview as it stands now, whereas the Winter Knight Mantle is nothing but an extension of her own power that must be wielded by a mortal vessel.
Those two qualities are kinda exclusive, and that oil and water exclusion would have to be addressed for this WAG to work. One of the reasons why I think this might work out is that Winter didn't always have custodianship over the Outer Gates... Which is evidence that the Winter purview does change.
thinking about the gawaine/gwalchmai myth.. doi the knight sof the cross have a mantle of sorts of their own? it would explain why they can do things even without the swords
second, is it possible for someone to be both knight of winter and the cross at the same time?
(hello gwalchmai)
;D
"I'm not asking you to take up the mantle of a Knight," I said quietly. "I want to entrust it to you for this night, for this purpose. This sword was made to fight darkness, and there's going to be plenty to go around. Take it up. Just until my girl is safe."
Well, I don't want to hand out too much outside the context of an actual story. But within the context of the Dresden books, Bob isn't, like, an actual mortal person.
Mortals are the ones who have free will, the ability to choose what they're doing, to choose between right and wrong. Without getting too thickly into the underlying philosophy, that's the thing that separates, for example, mankind from the angels--the angels didn't get the same kind of choice about their existance, and what they would do with it. Mortals get the chance to make all kinds of decisions, and can change their minds, well, at will. Other creatures, though they may look like people, don't get the same range of choices about who and what they will be.
Mab, for example, is Mab. She /can't/ show up and suddenly be merciful, generous, patient and kind. It would never so much as occur to her to do so, because it isn't a fundamental part of her nature, and she /can't/ choose to change it. She simply isn't capable. She doesn't have free will in the same way that people do. It's related to the difference between having a soul and not having a soul, as well. Without a soul, you aren't free to choose how you will shape that soul. You just stay what you are.
thinking about the gawaine/gwalchmai myth.. doi the knight sof the cross have a mantle of sorts of their own? it would explain why they can do things even without the swordsHarry referred to "the mantle of a Knight of the Cross" in Small Favor. If nothing else, it's a "mantle" in terms of being a role/position/title of power and responsibility. I think everyone is putting way too much stock in this idea that a "mantle," as discussed in Cold Days specifically, is some kind of discrete thing, whether a metaphysical object of sorts, or some kind of quasi-sentient entity. Words mean things, and that's not quite what "mantle" means. I think the best way to consider it is as the relevant dictionary definition: an important role or responsibility that passes from one person to another. In the Dresden universe, we've seen many times that with great responsibility comes great power. That power can take different forms.
Quote from: Proven Guilty Chapter 39He gritted his teeth and shook his head. "Since last year... since the Erlking... I've had... intuitions, maybe? Maybe just instincts. I can feel things in the air better now than before. I think the Wild Hunt is coming toward us. I think a lot of things are coming toward us."A sense for the Wild Hunt and some general instincts + maybe better senses depending on how you read the feel things in the air line.
That's not quite true. On Halloween Mantles can be changed, but that is not the only time.
What other time are you talking about? Bob only mentioned Halloween as a time when a mantle can undergo change in its nature. Yes, the Winter Knight mantle can be handed off any any time of the year, but we are talking about changing the nature of the mantle & maybe permanently fusing it with the mantle of the Warden.
Yes, there might be other conjunctions where an immortal can be killed, such as the stone table, but changing the nature of a mantle might be limited to that particular date.
When Lily got the mantle of the Summer Lady it wasn't changed. The change I'm thinking of, is like Odin making the mantle of Santa Claus. One that didn't exist prior. That was more of a fundamental change, than just swapping vessels.
I suspect it depends on the nature of the mantle. if im even 10% right about how Mab's works, its allways changing as the database updates itself with new potential futures. lesser mantles may be static but anything that complex is either self referencing or downright self aware.
See the section where Harry's mantle gives him unhelpful advice on how to fight Fix, & how Harry points out that Slate killed the previous Summer Knight by shoving him down the stairs (thus, ignoring the mantle). The mantle doesn't learn, it's just an unthinking bunch of occasionally helpful instinctual commands. It is up to the Knight who holds them to choose to listen or ignore these imperatives.
Bob believed that the mantle could not be changed & from Harry's descriptions of past WKs, if it changes any, it must be a glacially slow process. Mab spent a lot of time energy getting Harry specifically. Maybe because she knew he was the sort whose Will, could ignore the less than productive qualities of the Winter Knight.
Mantles are a odd thing & I'm not entirely certain Mab has control over the nature of the Winter Knight. From the descriptions Harry gives, logic isn't its strong suit, & isn't exactly a reflection of Mab.
Plus, who is to say Mab had anything to do with the creation of the office. The Winter Knight could originally be a creation of Mother Winter & might even predate Mab. Mother Winter certainly seems like she might favor Knights who share Slate's disposition.
And frankly it sounds like the mantle pushes Harry in that direction.
Bob only mentioned Halloween as a time when a mantle can undergo change in its nature. Yes, the Winter Knight mantle can be handed off any any time of the year, but we are talking about changing the nature of the mantle & maybe permanently fusing it with the mantle of the Warden.
thats the WK mantle. when i said 'nature of the mantle' I meant well.. nature of the mantle. there is a wk mantle. there is a lady manlte. therefor it is very likely there is a queen and mother manlte.. and we allready know of the archive, odin , etc, etc....
of course the wk mantle is a violent idiot. its supposed to be :)
Depends on if that immortal mantle stasis extends to mantles held by mortals as well.
I don't know what you think this thread is about, but we are discussing changing the nature of Harry's mantle, there's nothing to specifically pertain to the nature of Mab's mantle. Plus, given that Mab is considered constant as the Northern Star & I think there's a WOJ that says some things just aren't in her nature.
So, I'm fairly confused by your post, since in the context of this thread you seem to suddenly argue that the WK mantle is a constantly evolving sort of thing, which doesn't really work.
thats the WK mantle. when i said 'nature of the mantle' I meant well.. nature of the mantle. there is a wk mantle. there is a lady manlte. therefor it is very likely there is a queen and mother manlte.. and we allready know of the archive, odin , etc, etc....
of course the wk mantle is a violent idiot. its supposed to be :)
second, is it possible for someone to be both knight of winter and the cross at the same time?As Mother Summer says: 'anything is possible'. I would like to think the Winter Knight could also wield a sword of the cross. After all Harry needs a sword of his own.
Duck, I think I somewhat follow you now, but I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say, or even what this thread is about.
First, all your talk of Mab's mantle seeing all possibilities & constantly reevaluating itself has nothing to do with nature. Nature, as I define it, are hard wired imperatives that the mantle pushes on the bearer. Mab's mantle pushes cool logic, Titania's pushes emotion.
Winter Knight, as you say, is that of a violent idiot.
But the point of this thread, is that Harry has other mantles, & at least immortals can change a mantle on Halloween with bits & pieces like this. So for Harry & subsequent Winter Knights, the imperative might not be that of a violent idiot.
In the case of Mab, if her nature were to be changed, she might become more emotional & not be as closely tied to the embodiment of what is Winter. To stop always thinking so logically & embrace other ways of thought.
That kind of change would require actively tinkering with her mantle & bringing in new parts.
Not only will Harry succeed in retaining who he is rather than the Winter Mantle taking that away from him, but his use of Soulfire while the Winter Knight will Reforge the
so what Mantles does Harry wear/Job descriptions does he hold?
- White Council Member (card carrying, the paperwork for his re-admittance has been filed)
- Vanilla Warden Regional Commander
- Sword of The Cross Custodian x2 (currently proxied out to Murph, his Robin)
- Host to some unidentified "parasite"
- Mortal Soulfire Wielder
- Starborn (Whatever that means)
- The Warden of Demonreach
- Winter Knight
and i think youre over simplyfing things a bit:More advanced Bob? Nah. I'd say it'd be a significantly less 'advanced', if by 'advanced' we're meaning intelligent/self-aware. Of course, depending on the Mantle in question, it may or may not be more powerful.
the mantles likely have more then one purpose. (mab's for example probably does waaay more then just make her logical.)
the WK, along with making a violent idiot, also has very strong reporductive instincts wired into it where sidhe ladies are concerned.
and I doubt the 'warden of DR' is a mantle at all, frankly. A 'mantle' is in essence, i suspect, a more advanced bob. a programmed knowledge system that can be passed from host to host; some are likely far more advanced then others. While harry gains some information from sharing DR's knowledge, there doesnt seem to be any instinctive programming built into it.
what i believe Mother Summer was saying is that the mantles learn from each bearer, and Harry can choose to change his in some ways if he has enough will.
the WK mantle may be a violent idiot now, but wanna bet that by the time Harry passes it on it wont be?
Where is this idea that Mab thinks always logically? We've seen, even in the most recent book, that Mab can let her decisions be made on an emotional basis. It's why she had Harry do the job, instead of herself.
what i believe Mother Summer was saying is that the mantles learn from each bearer, and Harry can choose to change his in some ways if he has enough will.
See the section where Harry's mantle gives him unhelpful advice on how to fight Fix, & how Harry points out that Slate killed the previous Summer Knight by shoving him down the stairs (thus, ignoring the mantle). The mantle doesn't learn, it's just an unthinking bunch of occasionally helpful instinctual commands. It is up to the Knight who holds them to choose to listen or ignore these imperatives.
Bob believed that the mantle could not be changed & from Harry's descriptions of past WKs, if it changes any, it must be a glacially slow process. Mab spent a lot of time energy getting Harry specifically. Maybe because she knew he was the sort whose Will, could ignore the less than productive qualities of the Winter Knight.
Mab, for example, is Mab. She /can't/ show up and suddenly be merciful, generous, patient and kind. It would never so much as occur to her to do so, because it isn't a fundamental part of her nature, and she /can't/ choose to change it. She simply isn't capable. She doesn't have free will in the same way that people do. It's related to the difference between having a soul and not having a soul, as well. Without a soul, you aren't free to choose how you will shape that soul. You just stay what you are.
More advanced Bob? Nah. I'd say it'd be a significantly less 'advanced', if by 'advanced' we're meaning intelligent/self-aware. Of course, depending on the Mantle in question, it may or may not be more powerful.
Being nearly or more advanced than Bob, I think would be less like a Mantle, and more something like the Fallen component of a Denarian.
In computer terms, Bob is an complete self-aware AI, a Mantle is more akin to smart or expert programing.
Are there any other powerful spirits in the world like Bob who could contend with his experience and council?
Indeed. > ;D
-Jim
What other time are you talking about? Bob only mentioned Halloween as a time when a mantle can undergo change in its nature. Yes, the Winter Knight mantle can be handed off any any time of the year, but we are talking about changing the nature of the mantle & maybe permanently fusing it with the mantle of the Warden.See my previous post concerning the nature of mantles.
Yes, there might be other conjunctions where an immortal can be killed, such as the stone table, but changing the nature of a mantle might be limited to that particular date.
When Lily got the mantle of the Summer Lady it wasn't changed. The change I'm thinking of, is like Odin making the mantle of Santa Claus. One that didn't exist prior. That was more of a fundamental change, than just swapping vessels.
Bob's personality isnt truly his, its reflection of his owner. Compare that to the archive ; who has a different but much larger database.I think it depends on what you're meaning by "more advanced" - if you mean "more power, more abilities, more capabilities, etc", then the Archive and the Mantle of the Winter Queen are "more advanced" than Bob.
then you go up the scale to what Mab 'knows' ..
I dont think weve seen enough of the WK mantle yet to tell what information it has accesss too so whether or not its 'more advanced' then Bob is open. The Archive is very likely so; Mab's mantle almost certainly so
I think it depends on what you're meaning by "more advanced" - if you mean "more power, more abilities, more capabilities, etc", then the Archive and the Mantle of the Winter Queen are "more advanced" than Bob.
If by "more advanced" we're speaking of self-awareness and active intelligence ... I don't think we can say that Mantles are "more advanced" than Bob. Bob is an independent entity (technically). A Mantle exists within a person, and from what we know, while it shapes a person and adds 'instincts' and preprogrammed responses to a variety of stimuli ... but it isn't sentient, it isn't self-aware (or if it is, it is barely so).
Also, I don't think I'd call The Archive a Mantle in the same sense that the Winter Knighthood or Ladyship is.
The Winter Knight is aware. At least as aware as he ever is ;)
finaly, i think the WK is aware, just at an animal level. the ladies are likely much more ware, then we go up the scale.
A big part of what defines such mantles is the authority and influence they grant the bearers.
This is more true for some than others, of course. For example, the mantle of the Merlin of the White Council grants immense power to the one who wears it. It doesn't, however, as far as we know, grant any magical boost.
something that covers, envelops, or conceals: the mantle of darkness.
the big problem for me is Jim is sometimes using definition three:
when Eb is talking about mantle, as in the warden of DR, hes talking about the title
when Odin talks about mantle, as in santa clause, hes talking about mask or disguise he wears, an alternate self
and I dont think its possible to 'forge' mantles one and two together. they are seperate things. ;)
I would sugest then the Term Title for definition two, and epithets or masks for definition three( which would be the propper religous term)
Athena had 74 titles, but only 14 epithets; that is entirely different names she was worshipped under, with different attributes.
Harry wore the grey mantle of the warden
Harry bore the Title of warden of Demon Reach
Harry is the epithet of the Winter Knight
and for last case, Id just call em powers
Harry wields the power of soulfire
Duck - I would suggest the term "Mask" for the second one. It's like a mask you use to disguise yourself (no one knew he was Odin while he wore it.)
An example of a title would be The Merlin, or the Za-Lord, Warden of the WC.
An example of a mantle would be Summer Lady, Winter Knight, WARDEN, (maybe GateKeeper, but I don't know if that comes with magical power or if it's just a title)
Well in my thinking, the Warden mantle might have a bit more going for it, than a normal position. Genius loci are spirit beings, and from the Darkhallow we know that Mantles are forged of similar stuff. Might explain why Mantles seem to have animus of their own.
Winter & Summer Mantles might be formed from genius loci, hence why they seem to reflect the seasons & nature. The Erlking King might be formed of dead hunter spirits.
All I'm saying that while Demonreach isn't exactly the same thing as the mantles of immortals, I don't think we can say that they are totally incompatible either.
yes, thats defintion three.
One: a garment,or cloak
Two: a formal title
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet
I was thinking more...
Zero: a garment,or cloak
One: a formal title
Two: a semi-aware power
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet
In that vernacular, You don't usually get 1 without 2. Or 0 without 1. sometimes you get 2 & 3 together.
Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are both 1 and 2. Za Lord is just 2. warden of the White Council is 0 and 1. Kris Kringle is 1, 2 & 3.
enh im going by the order of the definitions in the dictionary :)I was just trying to stick with my original numbering system :)
im not aware of 'mantle= power' beind used by anyone other then well, us. Does Jim even use 'mantle' for power in the books? Mehtinks we may be strecthing things here folks.I'm saying that 2 is a Butcher original. It is pretty much exactly what the Winter Knight power is.
;D
Another way to look at it is this... Think about the types of powers that could be transferred on Halloween. I think we can all realize that just raw magical potential could be transferred (whole or in part) between individuals. If that raw magical potential was tied up with being Santa Claus, then if you get enough of the bits you are essentialy Santa Claus. You are what you eat. The same could not be said of being VP of accounting for Intel. VP of accounting isn't the type of power that can be transfered on Halloween, therefore it falls under Definition 1 and not Definition 2.
I was just trying to stick with my original numbering system :)
I'm saying that 2 is a Butcher original. It is pretty much exactly what the Winter Knight power is.
Below is my inadequate long winded attempt to explain what I was trying to get at with definition 2.
I suspect WK is a mantle in the odin/ santa pov; it comes with more then a power, it has an identity, awareness and name of tis own.
that's why no matter who the winter lady, for example, is they become the winter lady. thats why they all look like twins, and given time call each other sister even tho they obivously are not.
WK is the same sort of thing ;)
Agreed. Which is my definition 2 :) Or at least what I ment it to be.
yes, buts its also your definition three, ya see :)
ok, where is Shecky?
YOOO HOOO GRAMMAR GOD WHERE ARE YOU ?!
I was thinking more...
Zero: a garment,or cloak
One: a formal title
Two: a semi-aware power
Three: an alternate identity, a mask, an epithet
In that vernacular, You don't usually get 1 without 2. Or 0 without 1. sometimes you get 2 & 3 together.
Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are both 1 and 2. Za Lord is just 2. warden of the White Council is 0 and 1. Kris Kringle is 1, 2 & 3.
Yeah, see, using your definitions, I think it's more like ....
Winter Knight, Lady, Queen, Mother are all One and Two.
Za Lord is only One
Warden of the WC is zero and One
WARDEN is only two
Kringle is definitly three and maybe two
Also, given that the mantles of the courts seem to try to change the wearer, they may be three as well but making the "mask" permanent.
I don't believe any mystical power (other than the same that any VP of Accounting has) is bestowed on the "wearer" of the Za Lord or Warden of the WC. I don't recall any power up Harry got with the grey cloak. Well other than authority, and while that is a power, it's not the kind of power that say the WK mantle gives. That's ACTUAL power.
Bob's personality isnt truly his, its reflection of his owner. Compare that to the archive ; who has a different but much larger database.
Bob a reflection of Harry's personality? I know that's mentioned multiple times but it just doesn't seem true to me. Where Bob is all sex fiend...interested in "boobs" and porn. Harry seems much too gentlemanly for that.
Bob a reflection of Harry's personality? I know that's mentioned multiple times but it just doesn't seem true to me. Where Bob is all sex fiend...interested in "boobs" and porn. Harry seems much too gentlemanly for that.
Why is Bob the way he is and will we find out why he's hated so by the Fey
Jim mentioned that Bob takes on some of the personality of his "master" so when he came to Harry. Harry was about 16 years old. Sooo that's why he's so smart alecky and into girls so much. As for the Fey comment mentioned we will find out in later books.
It's because he's a reflection of Harry at age 16.
ohhhh! It does make more sense then... but you'd think Bob would change to be more what Harry & Butters are like now...especially since he passed from Harry to Butters then back to Harry and then back to Butters. Unless the psyche of men stay as they are at 16 and some just over ride it as they age with some common sense.. :P
IIRC according to Bob it's because first impressions tend to stick.
IIRC according to Bob it's because first impressions tend to stick.
So Harry was into mass orgies, and is a ummm upper curves man?
So Harry was into mass orgies, and is a ummm upper curves man?