Q: Can you tell us a little more about the black staff?
A: The staff keeps Eb from going crazy, mostly. Also, the White Council stole it from someone. And they really want it back.
But youve only guessed the name of one of her masks not our most powerful name.
How long has the White Council had the Blackstaff?
Look for Celtic Lore around 1065 ad.
“It is her way,” Mother Summer said, smiling. “She rarely leaves our cottage anymore. She lost her walking stick.Here is the description of the Blackstaff:
Ebenezar McCoy extended his left hand and spoke another word, and darkness swirled from the shadows and condensed into a staff of dark, twisted wood, unmarked by any kind of carving whatsoever.
Athropos! Skuld! Mother Winter, I summon thee!
Atropos or Aisa was the oldest of the Three Fates, and was known as the "inflexible" or "inevitable." It was Atropos who chose the mechanism of death and ended the life of each mortal by cutting their thread with her "abhorred shears."Skuld:
Skuld (the name possibly means "debt" or "future")[1] is a Norn in Norse mythology. Along with Urðr (Old Norse "fate"[2]) and Verðandi (possibly "happening" or "present"[3]), Skuld makes up a trio of Norns that are described as deciding the fates of people.
"An unmaking, boy. I am the unmaker, the destroyer. It is what I am. Bound within those threads is the power to undo any enchantment done. Touch the cloth to that which must be undone. Unravel the threads. It will be so."
I knelt in front of Mother Winter's rocking chair. I couldn't see her, even from here. Even her feet were covered by layers of dark cloth. But on her lap rested a pair of knitting needles, and a simple square of cloth, trailing thick threads of grey, undyed wool. Mother Winter reached down with her withered hands, and took up a pair of rusted shears. She cut the trailing threads and passed me the cloth.
I was casting everything I had done, everything I believed, everything I had chosen everything I was against the will of an ancient being of darkness, terror, and malice, a fundamental power of the world.
going to talk to Mother Winter was about half an inch shy of trying to call up Lucifer, or maybe Death itself (if there was such a being no one was really sure)
Then he swept the Blackstaff from left to right, murmured a word, and ripped the life from a hundred men.From left to right, that's the how you use a scythe.
They just . . . died.
There was absolutely nothing to mark their deaths. No sign of pain. No struggle. No convulsion of muscles. No reaction at all. One moment they were firing wildly down at us—and the next, they simply—
Dropped.
Dead.
The old man turned to the other wall, and I saw two or three of the brighter soldiers throw their guns down and run. I don’t know if they made it, but the old man swept the Blackstaff through the air again, and the gunmen on that side of the field dropped dead where they stood.
My godmother watched it happen, and bounced and clapped her hands some more, as delighted as a child at the circus.
I stared for a second, shocked. Ebenezar had just shattered the First Law of Magic: Thou shalt not kill. He had used magic to directly end the life of another human being—nearly two hundred times. I mean, yes, I had known what his office allowed him to do. . . . But there was a big difference between appreciating a fact and seeing that terrible truth in motion.
The Blackstaff itself pulsed and shimmered with shadowy power, and I got the sudden sense that the thing was alive, that it knew its purpose and wanted nothing more than to be used, as often and as spectacularly as possible.
Does the blackstaff have any powers that relate to the dead?
Other than making people dead? Really, that's kind of the point [Crowd Laughs] Really but the staff itself what it really does is it keeps Eb sane while he's doing insane things. Lucky him, he gets to deal with a hideously guilty conscious and nightmares later, but that's better than later being like *Muahahahahahahahaha* Which is sort of the other option if your going to go around using magic like that.
The Blackstaff itself pulsed and shimmered with shadowy power, and I got the sudden sense that the thing was alive, that it knew its purpose and wanted nothing more than to be used, as often and as spectacularly as possible.
I also saw veins of venomous black begin to ooze their way over the old man’s hand, reaching up slowly, spreading to his wrist. He grimaced and held his left forearm with his right hand for a moment, then looked over his shoulder and said, “All right!”
That was when I realized a couple of things.
The silver energy construct that had gripped the Denarian was gone.
And I couldn’t feel my right hand.
I looked down in a panic, but found that it was still there, at least, flopping loosely at the end of my arm. I couldn’t feel anything below my wrist. My fingers were slightly curled and didn’t respond when I told them to move.
The farthest grey figure, tall and lean, lifted his staff. I saw light gleam off of metal at one end of the staff, and then green lightning enfolded the length of wood as he thrust the metal end into the ground. He took the staff back—but the twisting length of green lightning stayed. He drove the staff down again about six feet away, and again lightning sheathed it. Then he removed the staff, reversed his grip on it, and with a sweep of his arm drew another shaft of lightning between the two upright columns of electricity, bridging the gap.
According to the Heimskringla, Harald Hardrada flew a raven banner called Landøyðan or "Land-waster"; whether this was the same banner as that flown by Sigurd of Northumbria is unclear. In a conversation between Harald and King Sweyn II of Denmark,
Sveinn asked Haraldr which of his possessions of his he valued most highly. He answered that it was his banner (merki), Landøyðan. Thereupon Sveinn asked what virtue it had to be accounted so valuable. Haraldr replied that it was prophesied that victory would be his before whom this banner was borne; and added that this had been the case ever since he had obtained it. Thereupon Sveinn said, "I shall believe that your flag has this virtue if you fight three battles with King Magnús, your kinsman, and are victorious in all."[29]
Years later, during Harald's invasion of England, Harald fought a pitched battle against two English earls outside York. Harald's Saga relates that when King Haraldr saw that the battle array of the English had come down along the ditch right opposite them, he had the trumpets blown and sharply urged his men to the attack, raising his banner called Landøyðan. And there so strong an attack was made by him that nothing held against it.[30]
Harald's army flew the banner at the Battle of Stamford Bridge, where it was carried by a warrior named Frírek. After Harald was struck by an arrow and killed, his army fought fiercely for possession of the banner, and some of them went berserk in their frenzy to secure the flag. In the end the "magic" of the banner failed, and the bulk of the Norwegian army was slaughtered, with only a few escaping to their ships.[31]
According to the Orkneyinga Saga, it was made for Sigurd the Stout by his mother, a völva or sorceress. She told him that the banner would "bring victory to the man it's carried before, but death to the one who carries it."
I also saw veins of venomous black begin to ooze their way over the old man’s hand, reaching up slowly, spreading to his wrist. He grimaced and held his left forearm with his right hand for a moment, then looked over his shoulder and said, “All right!”
A tattered-looking raven crouched on a nearby branch, its bead-black eyes gleaming.
"Cheery," Elaine said.
"Yeah. Very Baskerville." The carriage started up again, and I looked back to see it vanishing into the mist. "Okay. Where to now?"
At my words the raven let out a croaking caw. It shook itself, bits of moldy feather drifting down, and then beat its wings a few times and settled on another branch, almost out of sight.
"Harry," Elaine said.
"Yeah?"
"If you make any corny joke using the word 'nevermore,' I'm going to punch you. Do you understand me?"
"Never more," I confirmed. Elaine rolled her eyes. Then we both started off after the raven.
It led us through the cloudy landscape, flitting silently from tree to tree. We trudged behind it until more trees began to rise in the mist ahead of us, thickening. The ground grew softer, the air more wet, cloying. The raven let out another caw, then vanished into the trees and out of sight.
The lights turned out to be a pair of lit windows in a cottage that stood by itself on a slight rise of ground. Stone obelisks the size of coffins, some fallen and cracked and others still upright, stood scattered in loose rings around the mound. The raven rested on one of them, its beady eyes gleaming. It let out another croaking sound and flew through an open window of the cottage
A raven or crow is more than affiliated with death or a symbol thereof; its considered a psychopomp or a being which helps guide the way between the land of the living and the land of the dead.
Regarding the Raven Banner angle, consider the Stormcrow Banner that appears in the Codex Alera. In that case, it isn't directly tied to a Celtic legendary object, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't a deliberate callback. At a minimum, this should establish that JB is familiar with the right legends.
I'm going to keep this somewhat indirect to avoid CA spoilers, but one of the Imperial military symbols on banners is an eagle. At a significant point, one of those banners ends up getting blasted by a gout of flame that chars the threads of the eagle, making the bird-shape all black. The legion associated with that banner decides the banner is lucky and refuses to repair it, and they are given the name "the Stormcrows."
Crows/ravens are a major symbolic element of death (possibly the biggest one) in CA, and they appear in considerable numbers over any battlefield. It's noted at one point that you can predict how major/bloody a particular battle will be by the size of the murder that appears in the skies. Also, "crows" is a common expletive used in the series. In context, adopting "Stormcrows" as your legion nickname is approximately as ballsy as picking "Legion of Death."
The place was all one room. The floor was wooden, though the boards looked weathe Red and dry. Shelves stood against the stone walls. A loom rested in the far corner, near the fireplace, a spinning wheel beside it. Before the fireplace sat a rocking chair, occupied, squeaking as it moved. A figure sat in it, shrouded in a shawl, a hood, as though someone had animated a bundle of blankets and cloth. On the hearth above the fireplace sat several sets of teeth, more or less human-sized. One looked simple enough, all white and even. The next was rotted-looking, with chipped incisors and a broken molar. The next set had all pointed teeth, stained with bits of rusty brown and what looked like rotten bits of flesh stuck between them. The last was made out of some kind of silvery metal, shining like a sword.
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
I knelt in front of Mother Winter's rocking chair. I couldn't see her, even from here. Even her feet were covered by layers of dark cloth. But on her lap rested a pair of knitting needles, and a simple square of cloth, trailing thick threads of grey, undyed wool. Mother Winter reached down with her withered hands, and took up a pair of rusted shears. She cut the trailing threads and passed me the cloth.
She has spent too much time with mortals," Mother Winter continued, withered lips peeled back from iron teeth as the sparks from her cleaver's edge lept higher."
What kind of Fairy can handle rusty shears and has iron false teeth?
Any kind of iron gets under my skin, it seems to disagree with the Winter Knights bundle of awesome.
The only thing I dispute is that Eb using the blackstaff to kill people could have just been him using his normal wizard magic.
What kind of Fairy can handle rusty shears and has iron false teeth?
Regarding the Raven Banner angle, consider the Stormcrow Banner that appears in the Codex Alera. In that case, it isn't directly tied to a Celtic legendary object, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't a deliberate callback. At a minimum, this should establish that JB is familiar with the right legends.
On a related note, "look for Celtic lore around 1065 AD"? Could that be related to Titania's comment that she has not spoken to Mab since "before Hastings"? Perhaps there was a significant amount of Faerie Queen family drama around that time, and the loss of Mother Winter's walking stick/Raven Banner/Blackstaff was tied up in the conflict. (For added insanity, I don't think we know exactly when the former Mother Summer retired....)
Once I have devoured your flesh, and your mantle with it, I will bestow it upon someone worthier of the name. I should never have given it to Mab.Her knight was stupid enough to lose her stick, she was so disgusted by those mortals she subcontracted the whole thing to Mab.
A raven or crow is more than affiliated with death or a symbol thereof; its considered a psychopomp or a being which helps guide the way between the land of the living and the land of the dead. Which makes it interesting that Harry saw the crow two different times on his way to MW's house in SK.
Then we both started off after the raven.
Her knight was stupid enough to lose her stick, she was so disgusted by those mortals she subcontracted the whole thing to Mab.
Possible, but note the WoJ concerning the Blackstaff--"Also, the White Council stole it from someone. And they really want it back." Assuming that Mother Winter was the original owner of the Blackstaff, this does not necessarily say that the White Council stole it from her, just that they stole it from the immediately-preceding owner, who may or may not have been Mother Winter.
You do present a good argument for MW not being Fae in some sense, or for the office of Winter's Eldest being like the office of Knight (in that Harry can handle iron, he only has problems if it penetrates his skin).I feel it should be said that the knights have to be mortals, that's the point, that is why Harry can handle Iron. If the mantle of Mother Winter had been passed to a mortal, say to a changeling then that person would have gotten transformed into a fey
I feel it should be said that the knights have to be mortals, that's the point, that is why Harry can handle Iron. If the mantle of Mother Winter had been passed to a mortal, say to a changeling then that person would have gotten transformed into a fey(click to show/hide)
Odin was not transformed into a fae (his entire office is in stainless steel...). That's because he was a god in the first place. If Mother Winter is Death, there is no reason she became a faerie.but is he an actual member of the fae court the way Mab and Mother Winter are?
but is he an actual member of the fae court the way Mab and Mother Winter are?
Odin probably gains the Fae's weakness to iron only when he dons the mantle of Kringle. I think he also actually becomes a Fae at that time.
If he had, wouldn't getting smacked with the Winchester have burned/poisoned him?
Was the part of the Winchester that he got smacked with made of mostly iron? I know nothing about guns...
I don't have my copy handy, so I don't remember if Kringle got smacked with the stock or the barrel. (The stock would be wood, the barrel steel--and the stock may or may not have a steel butt-plate on it as well, depending upon the model.)He never actually gets hit with the gun, Harry uses it to block he sword and when he is on top of him holds it like a club, but he doesn't hit him with it. [Cold Days, 404]
He never actually gets hit with the gun, Harry uses it to block he sword and when he is on top of him holds it like a club, but he doesn't hit him with it. [Cold Days, 404]
Ahah! So the question of whether or not Kringle suffers from contact with Bane is still unanswered.I just want to ask his, but is Kringle a mantle, like the Knight of Winter/Summer, or is it just a mask for Odin when he feels like it?
Thanks for the quote and clarification. :)
I just want to ask his, but is Kringle a mantle, like the Knight of Winter/Summer, or is it just a mask for Odin when he feels like it?
That is an extremely good question.
My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Kringle is a mask, not a mantle. If someone were to manage to kill Odin, then the mask of Kringle might become a Mantle, but as of right now, it's simply a mask.
Each of the immortals seem to add a mantle that has current relevance in order to maintain power in opposition to the Oblivian War. Ivy is the enemy of all of them, odd that she is a signatory to the accords...
So it is highly likely Mother Winter's lost walking stick is now known as the Blackstaff. So what would Harry do if Eb were to die (In battle or murdered) and Harry picked up the staff. Would he accept the post of the new Blackstaff; assuming it was offered to him, or would he return Mother Winter's walking stick to her?
With the first option Harry gets to break all the laws of magic and do everything he despises without going insane. The second option puts the staff back in the hands of a being that thinks that Mab is too soft.
That is an extremely good question.
My guess (and it is just a guess) is that Kringle is a mask, not a mantle. If someone were to manage to kill Odin, then the mask of Kringle might become a Mantle, but as of right now, it's simply a mask.
Dudesan: You've described Santa Claus as being the Winter King. What does that title mean? Do Winter and Summer each have a trinity of Father/King/Prince, like they do with Mother/Queen/Lady? Is the King necessarily the consort of the Queen? If so, will we be seeing Oberon at some point?
Jim: 5) The Faerie realms just aren't that structured. It's more accurate to say that he is /a/ Winter King. Or even more accurately, that he is a free Wyld Fae who is of a power level that is on par with Mab's and happens to neighbor her sphere of influence, and finds it simpler to show up to family dinners during the holidays and make polite than to start staking out boundaries and establishing treaties.
Oberon... well, the guy kind of wound up between Mab and Titania in one of those romantic triangle things, back around Shakespeare's day. He didn't make it.
Hmmm ... is the complete oblivion of all non-mortals part of the goal of the Oblivion War? I thought they were only after the nasty things that preyed on humanity.
So it is highly likely Mother Winter's lost walking stick is now known as the Blackstaff. So what would Harry do if Eb were to die (In battle or murdered) and Harry picked up the staff. Would he accept the post of the new Blackstaff; assuming it was offered to him, or would he return Mother Winter's walking stick to her?
With the first option Harry gets to break all the laws of magic and do everything he despises without going insane. The second option puts the staff back in the hands of a being that thinks that Mab is too soft.
The place was all one room. The floor was wooden, though the boards looked weathe Red and dry. Shelves stood against the stone walls. A loom rested in the far corner, near the fireplace, a spinning wheel beside it. Before the fireplace sat a rocking chair, occupied, squeaking as it moved. A figure sat in it, shrouded in a shawl, a hood, as though someone had animated a bundle of blankets and cloth. On the hearth above the fireplace sat several sets of teeth, more or less human-sized. One looked simple enough, all white and even. The next was rotted-looking, with chipped incisors and a broken molar. The next set had all pointed teeth, stained with bits of rusty brown and what looked like rotten bits of flesh stuck between them. The last was made out of some kind of silvery metal, shining like a sword.
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
So what is Mother Winter true identity? What's particularly annoying is the 'our' name, meaning the name should fit for both mothers.
Several possibilities come to mind: Isis, some Indu or sumerian goddess, or even the WG. For me it's unlikely: Jim said he may not use indu deities, and I doubt that the mothers are mere deities. And there is absolutely nothing pointing to Isis for instance, or the WG. They seem to be force of nature (Mother Summer "it's not your" world), beyond good and evil:
In Germanic folklore as established by Jacob Grimm, Frau Holda or Holle is the supernatural matron of spinning, childbirth and domestic animals, and is also associated with winter, witches and the Wild Hunt. Her name is cognate with Scandinavian beings known as the Huldra and the völva Huld
(...)
While governing domestic chores, Holda is also strongly associated with the outside wilderness, wild animals and places remote from man. Frau Holda's festival is in the middle of winter, the time when humans retreat indoors from the cold;
Oh, I think I've solved the four sets of teeth problem:
- iron teeth = sword
- rotted-looking = plague
- pointed teeth = wild beast
- simple enough, all white and even = famine
So you are essentially saying that MW's false teeth are her various mantles as the 4 riders of the apocalypse?
So you are essentially saying that MW's false teeth are her various mantles as the 4 riders of the apocalypse?
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
So it is highly likely Mother Winter's lost walking stick is now known as the Blackstaff. So what would Harry do if Eb were to die (In battle or murdered) and Harry picked up the staff. Would he accept the post of the new Blackstaff; assuming it was offered to him, or would he return Mother Winter's walking stick to her?
With the first option Harry gets to break all the laws of magic and do everything he despises without going insane. The second option puts the staff back in the hands of a being that thinks that Mab is too soft.
What if keeping the Blackstaff also enables him to similarly resist the influences of being the Winter Knight (and perhaps Lash?).
It would enable him to wield all the various powers he's picked up without falling prey to the Dark Side.
No. MW is Death.
There are four horsemen of the apocalypse:
- Conquest
- War
- Death
- Famine
No matter how hard you try, there is no way you can match each set of teeth with one rider.
But if MW is Death, then she's one of the rider. And those riders are described in the book of the Revelations: here is the description of Death:
According to the Bible, Death has four ways to kill mortals during the Apocalypse: sword, famine, plague and wild beast. Try to match with the set of teeth, and you'll see it fits perfectly.
Well, at least according to one interpretation, the four riders are War, Death, Pestilence, Famine.
Thus, you get:
- iron teeth = War
- rotted-looking = Pestilence
- pointed teeth = Death (ok, that one is a little far-fetched - beast is better)
- simple enough, all white and even = Famine
I hear what you are saying, but the notion of MW switching using her false teeth as the different mantles sounds soooo awesome. ;)
That is, just because Odin was wearing a Kringle mask on Halloween, could mean it was a blatant disguise, not that that is one of his jobs.
Vadderung laughed again. He had a hearty laugh, like Santa Claus must have had when he was young and playing football.gives me the impression he's really Kringle.
With regards to Odin's Kringle mask.
I'm not sure but wasn't it said near the beginning of the book that some of the powerful beings that run around mucking it up on Halloween wear masks disguising them as beings they aren't?
That is, just because Odin was wearing a Kringle mask on Halloween, could mean it was a blatant disguise, not that that is one of his jobs.
I'm not convinced, and I'd have to reread some of CD to be more sure, but I think it is possible that some of you guys might have the wrong idea here.
I'm not sure where to fit it into any theories, but something that really sticks out to me with Mother Winter has stuck out in more than one spot:
What kind of Fairy can handle rusty shears and has iron false teeth?
With regards to Odin's Kringle mask.
I'm not sure but wasn't it said near the beginning of the book that some of the powerful beings that run around mucking it up on Halloween wear masks disguising them as beings they aren't?
That is, just because Odin was wearing a Kringle mask on Halloween, could mean it was a blatant disguise, not that that is one of his jobs.
I'm not convinced, and I'd have to reread some of CD to be more sure, but I think it is possible that some of you guys might have the wrong idea here.
I hear what you are saying, but the notion of MW switching using her false teeth as the different mantles sounds soooo awesome. ;)I agree that does sound awesome, and the idea of her as some aspect of death, or at least some how the inspiration for mortals to create this avitar of death does sound awesome. However while the name of Death does fit for MW, it's not even close for MS and she did say 'our' so the name has to fit both, and just saying life and death are two different things is both a cop out, and two DIFFERENT names.
Kringle did make a comment that lots of immortals run around wearing other masks or mantles on Halloween night if that's what you're after (and Bob made a comment about how masks on Halloween for mortals mean that immortals can't be sure that it's not another immortal under the mask).I'm still not convinced that the mask of kringle isn't just that, a mask that Odin wears sometimes. Maybe he oly ever interacts with Fae as kringle so as to be involved, but not intruding, that would fit with the WoJ about how the King of Winter being a wlyd fae that just interacts without staking territory. He has a certain power that he brings to it (thus granting him respect from the fae), he doesn't get involved with their power struggles (cuz he's mostly retired god, so he don't give a ****), he is undeniably related some how to winter in one way or another, hell for all we know waaaaaaaaaaaay back when he and Mab were actually related back before he and she both became what they are now. I mean hell maybe he's her Daddy or something (think about it, can you imagine the man who would survive getting down with Mother Iron Teeth?).
However while the name of Death does fit for MW, it's not even close for MS and she did say 'our' so the name has to fit both, and just saying life and death are two different things is both a cop out, and two DIFFERENT names.
Definition of life
noun (plural lives /līvz/)
the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death
Definition of death
noun
the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism:
No. MW is Death.
There are four horsemen of the apocalypse:
- Conquest
- War
- Death
- Famine
No matter how hard you try, there is no way you can match each set of teeth with one rider.
But if MW is Death, then she's one of the rider. And those riders are described in the book of the Revelations: here is the description of Death:
According to the Bible, Death has four ways to kill mortals during the Apocalypse: sword, famine, plague and wild beast. Try to match with the set of teeth, and you'll see it fits perfectly.
but don't confuse the Horsemen with the ways to kill.
Personally, I think Death ate Mother Winter, and took MW's mantle. Thus limiting himself, but still able to handle iron (and such). So I think the person who currently has the mantle of MW isn't fae, isn't (necessarily) human, but IS death. Maybe something (race-wise) different, like a dragon. (No, I'm not saying MW is a dragon.)
Normally I lurk, but when I saw this, and I read about Mother Winter's false teeth I was instantly reminded of Baba Yaga who according to some legends has iron false teeth.
http://www.oldrussia.net/baba.html
Elegast,
I'm with you on nearly every piece of this, but I had a different take on the Blackstaff.
My mind took:
MW's missing walking stick,
WOJ on the Blackstaff preventing insanity,
Outsiders/Nemesis' tendency to cause insanity,
Winter's current purpose (defending against Outsiders), and
[I forgot who]'s theory that the Laws of Magic exist to prevent Outsiders from gaining influence...
...and cooked up the FrankenWAGTM that the Blackstaff is specifically a defense against Outsiders' ability to exploit openings made by violations of the Laws of Magic (among other things).
If this is the case, I doubt anyone on the WC knows MW's walking stick's true purpose (i.e. allowing Death itself to walk freely among the Outsiders without being vulnerable to their corruption), save maybe for Rashid. If Rashid had ever confronted Eb about returning the Blackstaff, that could explain the apparent breakdown in trust between them that Eb refers to in PG*.
*Also, in a rare double-whammy post, I don't believe that Eb created the Grey Council sometime between PG and TC in response to his conversation with Harry at the end of PG, as others have posted elsewhere. At the very beginning of PG, Eb tells Harry he's already begun organizing a group of people he trusts- I think the GC predates Harry telling Eb about the BC theory.
Lastly, if Mother Winter is Death, does that make Mother Summer Taxes?
I don't think MS is Death, not really she might be part of the aspect of death for mortals, or she could be a goddess (or as near as a pure force of nature can be) of death like the Fate was, but I'm not convinced she's Death. I mean if she was wouldn't she have to move around a lot?
I also have to agree with the Gaia hypothesis. Having the Summer Lady as Clothos would unbalance Summer and Winter.
Gaia has two sides--light and dark, life and death. Or, as Ian Anderson sings (slightly adjusted as necessary for this case), "he who made kittens put snakes in the grass."
That's... a really great idea! And it made me realize something that should have been obvious: if Knnn's theory (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,35138.msg1677801.html#msg1677801) that that the Laws of Magic exist to prevent Outsiders from gaining influence, then Harry, who has a special immunity to Outsider mental attacks, may be able to violate the Laws without becoming mad! A living Blackstaff!
I don't think MS is Death, not really she might be part of the aspect of death for mortals, or she could be a goddess (or as near as a pure force of nature can be) of death like the Fate was, but I'm not convinced she's Death. I mean if she was wouldn't she have to move around a lot? She lost her walking stick but that hasn't harmed her purpose at all, nor limited her from it.
Though a fun fact the stories (IIRC) of the fates in Norse Myth were they were all blind and the three of them shared one eye given/taken/bargained from Odin. Which would be another link to winter for Odin. He and MS could have had a fight and well....cleaver...though you'd think it would be on display somewhere in the cottage...
Possible, but I don't think so: Rashid was already alive (he took down the mad Arab around 700 AD) when the WC stole the Blackstaff (1065 AD).
What's the reference for that latter date ? Titania not having spoken to Mab since before the Battle of Hastings (1066) might well connect, there.
I don't think MS is Death, not really she might be part of the aspect of death for mortals, or she could be a goddess (or as near as a pure force of nature can be) of death like the Fate was, but I'm not convinced she's Death.
In Germanic folklore as established by Jacob Grimm,[1] Frau Holda or Holle is the supernatural matron of spinning, childbirth and domestic animals, and is also associated with winter, witches and the Wild Hunt.
Spinning
Frau Holda is matron of all of women's domestic chores, but none so much as spinning, an activity with strong magical connotations and links to the other world
Winter
While governing domestic chores, Holda is also strongly associated with the outside wilderness, wild animals and places remote from man. Frau Holda's festival is in the middle of winter, the time when humans retreat indoors from the cold; it may be of significance that the Twelve Days of Christmas were originally the Zwölften ("the Twelve"), which like the same period in the Celtic calendar were an intercalary period during which the dead were thought to roam abroad.[6] Holda seems to personify the weather that transforms the land, for when it snows, it is said that Holda is shaking out her feather pillows; fog is smoke from her fire, and thunder is heard when she reels her flax. Holda traditionally appears in either of two forms: that of a snaggle-toothed, crooked-nosed old woman, or a shining youthful maiden clothed in white. As the maiden in white, her garments resemble the gleaming white of a fresh mantle of snow.
Protectress of children
While Holda is generally described as unmarried, and has no children of her own, she is the protectress of children, the kind spirit who would rock a child's cradle when its nurse fell asleep. She is said to own a sacred pool, through which the souls of newborn children enter the world
As Water-Holda
Many pools, wells or fountains are associated with the water-holda (roughly translated) throughout Germany. She haunts lakes and fountains and is seen as a fair White Lady bathing in the water and disappearing, a trait in which she resembles Nerthus. Like Nerthus, she too drives about in a wagon, sometimes requiring the help of a peasant to repair it. When he carves a new linchpin for her, she pays him with the cast-off wood chips which turn into gold if he is wise enough to take them. Young women would sometimes bathe in the icy Alpine pools in the hopes of becoming healthy fertile mothers.
Leader of the Wild Hunt
In German legend, Holda held her court within the Hörselberg, and from this mountain would issue the Wild Hunt, with her at its head. The faithful Eckhart was said to sit at the base of the mountain warning travellers to return whence they came; he also rode ahead of the Wild Hunt warning people to seek shelter from the coming storm. While Holda in northern Germany is described as leading a procession of the dead, her close counterpart in southern Germany, Perchta, is described as being surrounded by the souls of unborn children, or children who died before they were baptised. This points to Holda's dual role as protectress of souls both entering and leaving this world.
Matron of witches
Holda's connection to the spirit world through the magic of spinning and weaving has associated her with witchcraft in Catholic German folklore. She was considered to ride with witches on distaffs, which closely resemble the brooms that witches are thought to ride. Likewise, Holda was often identified with Diana in old church documents. As early as the beginning of the eleventh century she appears to have been known as the leader of women and female nocturnal spirits, which "in common parlance are called Hulden from Holda". These women would leave their houses in spirit, going "out through closed doors in the silence of the night, leaving their sleeping husbands behind". They would travel vast distances through the sky, to great feasts, or to battles amongst the clouds
I don't think so. She probably has intellectus for all matters related to death, so in a sense she's there, but no need to come in person. Arthropos (one of her name), did her job with her shears without leaving her home.
The office of each of the queens is a mantle, just like the winter knight, Mab was once mortal before she ascended through a rite similar to the dark hallow as per WOJ, so, I am sure, is Mw. She is also Baba Yaga of the iron teeth and cleaver, she is also Atropos and Skuld, who was the original and what powers are innate to her? Unknown, but I think we have WOJ that the last ice age was the transition of the old Mother S to the current one, so that dates her somewhat...
Each of the immortals seem to add a mantle that has current relevance in order to maintain power in opposition to the Oblivian War. Ivy is the enemy of all of them, odd that she is a signatory to the accords...
How is Ivy an enemy of the Fae? Every word ever written is distilled in her mind, her Archive. If anything the Fae should have a string of bodyguards keeping track of her at all times, she's the last failsafe from them being cut off from the mortal world. If she's the enemy to anyone it's the Venators, the only way they can ever truly end the Oblivion War is if ALL mortal knowldge of the beings they want to banish is gone, and it will still be there as long as the Archive exists.
You're right. The 'our' problem is really difficult. I would point that deadly plagues grow stronger near MS, and that MW says that death gives value to life, so it's not totally impossible. It's also the old Ying-Yang dichotomie after all.
And about two different names:
So I may be stretching the facts, but I'm not completely hallucinating... ;D
Nope, recent WOJ says that Ivy is the leader of the Oblivion War. She keeps track of all the names of different monsters/gods etc and if there has been no recordings of them over 1000 years she deletes the info from her internal database. She just doesn't let anyone know this about her.
DF Spoilers / Re: Ivy and the Obllivion War
« on: November 19, 2012, 04:40:42 AM »
I'm pretty sure this will never make it into the actual Dresden Files, since Harry has no idea the Oblivion War is happening, along with everyone else. So I'll share it here. :)
The Archive was constructed /for/ the Oblivion War. Specifically.
Yes, the Archive (and Ivy, the two aren't really divisible) know about these forgotten beings. The Archive is in essence the keeper of the dead, where they are concerned. Once the archive believes one of them has been consigned to oblivion, she holds on to the memory of that being briefly, for another thousand years or so, watching for any mention of that being in print in an effort to make sure that she is the /last/ person alive who remembers whichever hideous entity has been consigned.
And once the safety period has elapsed, and the Archive is confident that no one else remembers, she deletes the memory from the Archive. Bad guy, /gone/.
She also tries to keep track of the enemy players in the Oblivion War via watching for communications and so on. When she finds a trace of them, somewhere, she lets a cell of operatives (like Lara and Thomas) know what's up, through a blind drop, and sends them off to handle the problem.
The Oblivion War is a huge, /slow/ thing. Stuff happens every few decades, at most. That's why the Archive was created--to be an immortal awareness, something that could track and intelligently direct responses to the enemy in a war happening on an almost geological scale.
All that other stuff she says the Archive is for? Smoke and mirrors. :)
Kincaid, by the way, has no idea that the Oblivion War exists. It isn't like Ivy explains this stuff. She just gives orders. :)
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,34801.msg1663694.html#msg1663694