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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Serack on November 30, 2012, 08:53:08 PM

Title: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on November 30, 2012, 08:53:08 PM

Time for another reference topic.  Over and over there are moments in the story where there is kind of a pause in the story and someone talks to Harry and he doesn't really understand a dern thing.  I want to collect all these pieces of dialog and snippets that contain potential portent into one place.

Some of these are rather long and I am not comfortable copying down pages and pages of text, so I might just give cliff notes and source chapters.  Others are just a few sentences so I'll include them in their entirety with their source chapter cited too...

Everything will be in spoiler tags for the purpose of condensing the topic, not necessarily to hide spoilers.

Examples of things I am looking for are the Third Eye Junkie raving about HHWB's shadow, Chauncy's summons, some of Harry's chats with Id Harry, all the times Nic waxes eloquently with Harry, Harry's chat with his father in the dream...  I'm thinking of adding anything that talks about his parents, although those might belong in a different reference...  Maybe I'll cleave em off for that later...

I'll be reserving the first 2 responses for spillover material

Any help getting the actual material, or making suggestions for things that belong here is appreciated.  I don't have too much trouble finding stuff like this of course, but it does take effort for me to type it out (My typing skills are mediocre, but I do touch type)

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"Wizard!" he trumpeted.  "Wizard!  I see you!  I see you, wizard!  I see the things that follow, those who walk before and HE Who Walks Behind!  They come, they come for you!"

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He died in his sleep one night.  An aneurysm, the doctors said.  I found him, cold, smiling.  Maybe he'd been dreaming of Mother when he went...

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"Indeed," Chauncy agreed.  "Your mother was a most direct and willful woman.  Her loss was a great sadness to allof us."
..."You . . . you knew my mother?  You knew Margret Gwendolyn Dresden?"
Chauncy regardded me without expression or emotion.  "Many in the underworld were. . . Famliar with her, Harry Blackstone Dresden, thoughunder a different name.  Her coming ws awaited with great anticipation, but the Dark Prince lost her, in the end."
"What do you mean?  What are you talking about?"
Chauncy's eyes gleamed with avarice.  "Didn't you know about your mother's past, Mr. Dresden?  A pitty that we didn't have this conversation sooner.  You might have added it into the bargain we made.  Of course, if you would liek to forfeit another name, to know all aobut your mother's past, her..." his voice twisted with distaste, "redemption, and the unnatural deaths of both your mother and father, I am certain we can work something out."
...
"I can show them to you, Harry Blackstone Dresde, as they really are," Chaunzaggoroth assured me, his voice dulcet.  "You've never seen your mother's face.  I can give that to you.  You've never heard her voice.  I can let youhear that as well.  You know nothing of what sort of peope your parents were - or if you have any other family out there.  Family, Harry Blackstone Dresden.  Blood.  Every bit as tormented and alone as you are ..."

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Chauncy smiled, a rather intimidating expression. "MacFinn is a member of an ancient family line from an island known as Ireland. His family has a notable history. Sometime in the murky past, legend would have it, the man known as Saint Patrick cursed his ancestor to become a ravening beast at every full moon. The curse came with two addenda. First, that it would be hereditary, passing down to someone new each and every generation. And second, that the cursed line of the family would never, ever die out, lasting until the end of days."

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Cliff Notes:
Don't beat yourself up so much over not doing more to stop the Loup-Garu rampage
Be more forthcoming with Murphy, ask her out
Why don't you trust Susan?  I think it's because of Elaine
Elaine's alive and you know it.  You won't heal and trust again until you face that.
Some detective work
Marcone may be a threat since you didn't take his job offer
Other immediate threats
"That reminds me, right.  Your mother-"

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"No," Denton said, white showing all around the grey irises of his eyes.  "No, wizard."  He raised his gun.  "I don't believe in hell.  I won't let you."

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"Fire," she wispered.  "Wind.  I see dark things and a dark war.  I see my death coming for me, out of the spirit world.  And I see you at the middle of it all.  You're the beginning, the end, of it.  You're the one who can make the path go different ways."

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The very beginning of the chapter, The dream is long with lots of disjointed details about his torture at the hands of Lea before he dueld Justin, and some details about winning his duel

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"You would give your own life in place of theirs?" she asked, her tone incredulous.
"Yes."
"Why?"
"Because no one else can do this.  They need me.  I owe it to them."
"Owe them your life," Lea Mused.  "You are mad, Harry Dresden.  Perhaps it comes of your mother."
I frowned.  "What's that supposed to mean?"
Lea shrugged.  "She spoke as you do.  Near the end."

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You are stained," she said.  "I can feel black magic on you."
"It's a long story," I said.  "But mostly it isn't mine."
"Some of it is."
..."Yah.  I've made a bad call or two."
...
[requests an honest answer to one question in exchange for info]
..."Why do you do what you do?" ... "I mean always," she answered.  "Why are you a wizard?  Why do you present yourself openly?  Why do you help other mortals as you do?"
"Uh," I said.  I stood up and paced over to my table.  "What else would I do?"
"Precisely," the doll said...  "You could be doing many other things.  You could be sequestered and studying.  You could be using your skills for material gain and living in wealth.  Even in your profession as an investigator, you could do more to avoid confrontation than you do.  But instead you consign yourself to a poor home, an dingy office,,, and the danger of facing all maner of mortal and supernatural foe.  Why?" 
...
"Well," I said.  "I guess I wanted to do something to help people.  Something I was good at."
"Is that why?"  she asked.
[long internal probing about the trouble he gets into]
"I don't know," I said finally.  "I guess I never thought about it all that much."
... "Don't you think you should?"

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Opening of chapter:
"A woman who seemed familiar but whom I did not recognize shook her head and drew  her hand from left to right.  The dream-scenery faded to black in the wake of her motion.  She turned to me, dark eyes intent and said, "You need to rest."

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"Little Maggie's youngest.  You've grown up to be a man of considerable strengths."
[buncha thoughts about his parents including remembering a picture of his parents, his mother very pregnant, in front of the Lincoln Memorial.]
[comments about how he (nic) tried to keep Harry out of things, it was hard to waylay an angelic messenger. "so why'd you do it?"]
"I have a fond memory or two of your mother.  It cost me little to attempt it.  So why not?"
"That's the second time you've mentioned her,"  I said.
"Yes.  I respected her.  Which is quite unusual for me."
"You respected her so much you snatched me and brought me here.  I see."
[ye ole' join up or die]
"Do you actually think you could convince me to join up with you?"
"Yes," he said.  "I know you."
"Do not."
"Do too," he replied.  "I know more about you than you do yourself."
"Such as?"
"Such as why you chose this kind of life for yourself.  To appoint yourself protector of mortal kind, and to make yourself the enemy of any who do them harm.  To live outcast from your own kind, laughed at and mocked by most mortals.  Living in a hovel, barely scraping by.  Spurning welath and fame.  Why do you do it?"
"I'm a disciple of the Tao of Peter Parker, obviously," I said.
... "It is all you will allow yourself, and I know why."
"All right.  Why?"
"Because you are ruled by fear.  You are afraid, Dresden."
I said, "Of what?"
"Of what you could be if you ever let yourself stray from the right-hand path," Nicodemus said.  "Of the power you could use.  You've thought about what it might be like to bend the world to your will.  The things you could have.  The people.  Some part of you has considered and found join in the idea of using your abilities to take what youw ish.  And you are afraid of that joy.  So you drive yourself toward martyrdom instead."
[after struggling to deny it] "Everyone has thoughts like that sometimes."
"No," Nicodemus said, "they don't.  Most people never consider such actions.  It never crosses their minds.  The average mortal would have no sure way of taking that kind of power.  But for you, it's different.  You may pretend you are like them.  But you are not."..."You don't want to see what you are, so you have very few pictures of yourself.  No mirrors, either."  ...  "I used to be much as you are now.  You are trapped.  You are lying to yourself.  You pretend to be like any other mortal because you are too terrified to admit that you aren't.

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The Council knew that you were the son of Margret LeFay.  They knew that she was one of the wizards who had turned the Council's own laws against it.  She was guilty of violating the First Law, among others, and she had... unsavory associations with various entities of dubious reputation.  The Wardens were under orders to arrest her on sight.  She'd have been tried and executed in moments when she was brought before the Council."

I was told she died in childbirth," I said.
"She did," Ebenezer confirmed.  "I don't know why, but for some reason she turned away from her previous associates - including Justin DuMorne.  After that, nowhere was safe for her.  She ran from her former allies and from the Wardens for perhaps two years.  And she ran from me.  I had my orders regarding her as well."

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"She met your father.  A man.  A mortal, without powers, without influence, without resources.  But a man with a good soul, like few I have ever seen.  I believe that she fell in love with him.

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"Love is patient. Love is kind. Love always forgives, trusts, supports, and endures. Love never fails. When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love."

"And the greatest of these is love," I finished. "That's from the Bible."

"First Corinthians, chapter thirteen," Thomas confirmed.

Quote from: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 07:36:10 PM

When Thomas quotes the bible verse regarding the weakness of the Wampires, he says:
I looked around and confirmed (as much as I can) that those [bolded] bits are not actually in any of the common translations of the Bible, so I think they are more foreshadowing.   Which would make the Faith/Hope/Love bit a fairly strong indication of the significance of the Swords, come BAT time.

(Whether it is on the same Bat Channel is still unknown   ;))

Edit:  Since the final book of the BAT is supposed to be "Empty Night," I think Quantus' comments couple nicely with the fact that the Wampire explicative of choice is "Empty Night" to imply that they have some important hidden task (Like Mab is in charge of the Outer Gates) that will be crucial for the BAT ^-Serack

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Cliffnotes Version: 

• Mab shows Harry how Marcone got abducted.
• Quote

  She tilted her head to one side and stared at me.  “One day, wizard, you will kneel at my feet and ask me to bestow the mantle upon you.”
  “But not today.”
  “No,” Mab said.  “Today you repay me a favor.  Just as I said you would.”

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Quote

“Have you not seen the signs around you?”  Nicodemus asked.  “Beings acting against their natures?  Creatures behaving in ways that they should not?  The old conventions and customs being cast aside?”
I narrowed my eyes at him.  “You’re talking about the Black Council.”
He tilted his head slightly to one side.  Then his mouth twitched at a corner and he nodded his head very slightly.  “They move in shadows, manipulate puppets.  Some of them may be on your Council, yes.  As good a name as any.”

…(Harry reveals the hellfire at the attack on Arctis Tor)…

Quote

I turned to face him and sighed.  “I think you’re probably full of crap.  But okay, I’ll bite.  What long term issues?”
“Those surrounding the activities of your Black Council,” Nicodemus said.  “Are you certain you saw evidence of Hellfire in use at the site of the attack on Arctis Tor?”

…

Quote

..."Interesting.  Then the only question is if the contamination is among standing members of our Order or..."  He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow.
I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins.  "Someone in the Church," I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.

...

Quote

“Would you believe me if I told you that you and I might have a great many common interests in the future?”

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Quote

“Why,” I asked him.  “Why would Summer want Marcone taken by the Denarians?  Why would Summer want the Archive under their control?”
The gruff only stared at me for a long moment, but when he spoke I could have sworn that his voice sounded pensive.  Maybe even troubled.  “It is not my place to know such things—or to ask.”

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“Tessa and Rosanna,” I said quietly.  “They got their collection of thugs back.  They bailed at just the right moment to ruin your plans, too.”
“Deceitful bitches,” Nicodemus murmured.  “One of them is our own Judas; I was sure of it.”
I lifted my eyebrows.  “What?”
“That’s why I let them handle the more, shall we say, memorable aspects of the Archive’s initiation to our world,” Nicodemus said.  “I suppose now that the child is free, she’ll have some rather unpleasant associations with those two.”
“And you’re telling me this why?”
He shrugged a shoulder.  “It’s somewhat ironic, Dresden, that I can talk to you about this particular aspect of family business.  You’re the only one that I’m sure hasn’t gone over to this new force—this Black Council of yours.”

…(Nicodemus tells the Shadow to restrain Harry)…

Quote

“Dresden, I truly regret this necessity, but time is growing short.  I must act, and your talents could prove useful.  You’ll see.  Once we’ve cleared some of these well-intentioned idiots out of our way…”

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Quote

“You gotta think that maybe there’s a matter of balance, here,” he said.  “Maybe one archangel invested his strength in this situation overtly and immediately.  Maybe another one was just quieter about it.  Thinking long-term.  Maybe he already gave you a hand.”

…

Quote

Mab’s head moved slightly with the words, but it was Grimalkin’s mewling voice that actually spoke.  “The Prince of the Host is all pomp and ceremony, and when he moves it is with the thunder of the wings of an army of seraphim, the crash of drums, and the clamor of horns.  The Trumpeter never walks quietly when he can appear in a chorus of light.  The Demon Binder takes tasks upon his own shoulders and solves his problems with his own hands.  But the Watchman…” Mab smiled.  “Of all the archangels, I like him the most.  He is the quiet one.  The subtle one.  The one least known.  And by far the most dangerous.”

…

Quote

“Why?” I demanded.  “Why did you want the Denarians stopped?  Why send the hobs to kill the Archive?  Why recruit me to save the Archive and Marcone in the event that the hobs failed?”
Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me.  “Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition.  That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted.  And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home.”
“The Black Council attack on Arctis Tor,” I said.  “One of them used Hellfire.”
“Mab showed me her snow-white teeth.  “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day.  The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”
I frowned and thought of the silver hand that had batted the fallen angel and his master sorceries around as if he’d been a stuffed practice dummy.  “Thorned Namshiel.”
Mab’s eyes flashed with sudden, cold fury and frost literally formed over every surface of the chapel, including upon my own eyelashes.

…
Date with Luccio

Quote

“The Sight,” she replied calmly.  “Every wizard develops some measure of precognizance as he matures.  It sounds to me as if yours has begun to stir, and has recognized a place that may be of significance to you in the future.”

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"You take after your mother." [said by the gatekeeper]
I blinked.  "you knew her?"
"Those of use who spend any amount of time walking the Ways tend to delelop a certain amount of camaraderie.  We would have dinner every so often, compare notes of our walks.  And there were several of us who were friends of Ebenezar who... took it upon ourselves to watch over her."

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["Vadderung" Ch. 21]He tilted his head and looked at me.  "Wizard... you have been dead and returned.  It has marked you.  It has opened doors and paths that you do not yet know exist, and attracted the attention of beings who formerly would never have taken notice of your insignificance."

[The Gatekeeper, Ch 34:]I know something of the responsibilities you've chosen to take up," he said, "to say nothing of the problems you've created for yourself that you haven't found out about yet."
[/snip]
"You've danced about in the shadows at the edge of life now, young man.  That's no small thing, to go into those shadows and come back again - you've no idea the kind of attention you've attracted."

Title: Re: Portentous dialogues
Post by: Serack on November 30, 2012, 08:53:37 PM

reserved

Title: Re: Portentous dialogues
Post by: Serack on November 30, 2012, 08:54:01 PM

reserved

Title: Re: Portentous dialogues
Post by: Cenphx on November 30, 2012, 08:57:20 PM

Sometimes I think we all are sharing the same brain. I was just gonna ask if there were any other prophecy-esque statements like the ThreeEye junkie's that we should revisit. Do you want only the examples here or do you also want the discussions about what they might mean in light of CD information?  Also, is there some way to just pull my ThreeEye Junkie thread over here?

Title: Re: Portentous dialogues
Post by: Serack on November 30, 2012, 09:15:10 PM

Quote from: Cenphx on November 30, 2012, 08:57:20 PM

Sometimes I think we all are sharing the same brain. I was just gonna ask if there were any other prophecy-esque statements like the ThreeEye junkie's that we should revisit. Do you want only the examples here or do you also want the discussions about what they might mean in light of CD information?  Also, is there some way to just pull my ThreeEye Junkie thread over here?

That kinda got me thinking this way.

For now I want this to be a raw data dump honestly.  I'd like to keep the theorizing elsewhere for now.  If we can manage to keep this as a data dump, that means I can move it to the DFRC that much faster, but discussion means it belongs here.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: DRFacts on December 01, 2012, 12:07:19 AM

Does that spirit he contact to get the rest of the prophecy about him dying have anything interesting?

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on December 01, 2012, 01:51:13 AM

Quote from: DRFacts on December 01, 2012, 12:07:19 AM

Does that spirit he contact to get the rest of the prophecy about him dying have anything interesting?

I'm still only halfway through SK, but that's one of the ones I intend to hit.  ATM, I am mostly just going through my e-book bookmarks and highlights.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 07:36:10 PM

When Thomas quotes the bible verse regarding the weakness of the Wampires, he says:

Quote from: Blood Rites

"Love is patient. Love is kind. Love always forgives, trusts, supports, and endures. Love never fails. When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love."

"And the greatest of these is love," I finished. "That's from the Bible."

"First Corinthians, chapter thirteen," Thomas confirmed.

I looked around and confirmed (as much as I can) that those bits are not actually in any of the common translations of the Bible, so I think they are more foreshadowing.   Which would make the Faith/Hope/Love bit a fairly strong indication of the significance of the Swords, come BAT time.



(Whether it is on the same Bat Channel is still unknown   ;))

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 07:55:02 PM

The Loup Garou Curse:

Quote from: Fool Moon Ch 11

Chauncy smiled, a rather intimidating expression. "MacFinn is a member of an ancient family line from an island known as Ireland. His family has a notable history. Sometime in the murky past, legend would have it, the man known as Saint Patrick cursed his ancestor to become a ravening beast at every full moon. The curse came with two addenda. First, that it would be hereditary, passing down to someone new each and every generation. And second, that the cursed line of the family would never, ever die out, lasting until the end of days."

It always seemed an odd thing for a Saint to do.  And it is somehow guaranteed to last until the Apocalypse.  Perhaps that means the presence of a giant nigh-immortal, magic immune wolfen killing machine will somehow be necessary in those Days. 

One possibility is that it will be needed to kill Odin, playing the role of Fenrir according to common accounts of the Ragnarok prophesy. 

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:06:54 PM

Quote from: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 07:36:10 PM

When Thomas quotes the bible verse regarding the weakness of the Wampires, he says:

Quote

"Love is patient. Love is kind. Love always forgives, trusts, supports, and endures. Love never fails. When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love."

"And the greatest of these is love," I finished. "That's from the Bible."

"First Corinthians, chapter thirteen," Thomas confirmed.

I looked around and confirmed (as much as I can) that those bits are not actually in any of the common translations of the Bible, so I think they are more foreshadowing.

I thought we concluded it was a weird mash-up of Corinthians 13:4-13, the Necronomicon, and Genesis 1:1.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Second Aristh on December 03, 2012, 08:09:21 PM

Nicodemus hints pretty heavily about

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Nemesis

in his conversation with Harry in Ch.29 of SmF.  Is that more or less what you're looking for Serack, or would you prefer to focus on slightly more nebulous conversations?

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on December 03, 2012, 08:12:45 PM

Quote from: Second Aristh on December 03, 2012, 08:09:21 PM

Nicodemus hints pretty heavily about

(click to show/hide)

Nemesis

in his conversation with Harry in Ch.29 of SmF.  Is that more or less what you're looking for Serack, or would you prefer to focus on slightly more nebulous conversations?

Oh that's certainly one that I will be including in this reference.  It was one of the preemenent ones on my mind when I created it.  It's a time consumer though and I'm doing it in blocks.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:14:27 PM

If you want to portion out the books, we can multi-thread this...  (you could then copy-paste to the OP).

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Second Aristh on December 03, 2012, 08:15:04 PM

Quote from: Serack on December 03, 2012, 08:12:45 PM

Oh that's certainly one that I will be including in this reference.  It was one of the preemenent ones on my mind when I created it.  It's a time consumer though and I'm doing it in blocks.

Okay, if you'd like to delegate some of the work out, I'm more than happy to take SmF.  I'll let you get a little ahead so I can match formats.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on December 03, 2012, 08:17:52 PM

Quote from: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:14:27 PM

If you want to portion out the books, we can multi-thread this...  (you could then copy-paste to the OP).

Anyone can post their own copies of excerpts in a response to this topic and I (or another curator *looks significantly at knnn*) can paste them into the proper cronology of the OP.

I actually skipped the parts of the chauncy discussion that directly related to the FM case, but Quantus did a pretty good job of pointing out that might not have been a good idea.

Edit:  And I just edited it into the OP.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:20:00 PM

Quote from: Serack on December 03, 2012, 08:17:52 PM

Anyone can post their own copies of excerpts in a response to this topic and I (or another curator *looks significantly at knnn*) can paste them into the proper cronology of the OP.

Challenge accepted!  ;D

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 08:50:38 PM

Quote from: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:06:54 PM

I looked around and confirmed (as much as I can) that those bits are not actually in any of the common translations of the Bible, so I think they are more foreshadowing.


I thought we concluded it was a weird mash-up of Corinthians 13:4-13, the Necronomicon, and Genesis 1:1.

I see where you posted that theory, but the thread as a whole devolved into a discussion of the nature of the Wampire weaknesses and Faith in general, and never really made any conclusions on the original topic.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:54:13 PM

Quote from: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 08:50:38 PM

I see where you posted that theory, but the thread as a whole devolved into a discussion of the nature of the Wampire weaknesses and Faith in general, and never really made any conclusions on the original topic.

Fair enough.  I suppose that even if the quotes are all there, the fact that Thomas quotes em all together means that someone in the White Court has a really unique Bible lying around.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 08:56:59 PM

Quote from: knnn on December 03, 2012, 08:54:13 PM

Fair enough.  I suppose that even if the quotes are all there, the fact that Thomas quotes em all together means that someone in the White Court has a really unique Bible lying around.

And the Necronomicon does exist in world.  IN fact, it was mentioned in the same book, as something the White Council had published to de-power some rituals it contained.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: ImpishMortal on December 03, 2012, 10:05:56 PM

Serack, might you also consider adding Patterns to the title of this thread? There seem to be many patterns of significance, be they in-verse or of the meta variety.

So far, we have the Denarians recurring every five books and a few others that escape me. Although I think with Cold Days Jim has established that in another seven books, we'll have a book taking place on Halloween. How fitting would that be to kick off the end?

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Quantus on December 03, 2012, 10:13:08 PM

Quote from: ImpishMortal on December 03, 2012, 10:05:56 PM

Serack, might you also consider adding Patterns to the title of this thread? There seem to be many patterns of significance, be they in-verse or of the meta variety.

So far, we have the Denarians recurring every five books and a few others that escape me. Although I think with Cold Days Jim has established that in another seven books, we'll have a book taking place on Halloween. How fitting would that be to kick off the end?

The patterns Ive heard mentioned are that the Nickleheads show up every 5 books, Vampires feature every 3, and that elaine was supposed to show every 5 books after the fourth (ie 4, 9, 14, etc, but Cold days broke that pattern so it doesnt seem to fit anymore).

There is also technically the whole Tarot theory, but Jim claims he has way too much to keep track of to worry about that level of abstraction, and that its an instance of people reading into things after the fact the way english teachers love to do.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Cenphx on December 03, 2012, 10:17:52 PM

What about the scene where the woman's hand Harry felt in SF which seemed to help turn him from dark magic outside Victor Sells' house? I know that there are different theories as to who that was, but given that Harry's mother was a possibility, do you want to include it and similar scenes?

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Second Aristh on December 03, 2012, 10:28:15 PM

Here is what I have so far for SmF.  I left out some of the ones that seemed to pertain purely to SmF, but if needed I can add them in later.  I tried to pay particular attention to things that faeries said because of their truth restriction.

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Cliffnotes Version: 

• Mab shows Harry how Marcone got abducted.
• Quote

  She tilted her head to one side and stared at me.  “One day, wizard, you will kneel at my feet and ask me to bestow the mantle upon you.”
  “But not today.”
  “No,” Mab said.  “Today you repay me a favor.  Just as I said you would.”

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Quote

“Have you not seen the signs around you?”  Nicodemus asked.  “Beings acting against their natures?  Creatures behaving in ways that they should not?  The old conventions and customs being cast aside?”
I narrowed my eyes at him.  “You’re talking about the Black Council.”
He tilted his head slightly to one side.  Then his mouth twitched at a corner and he nodded his head very slightly.  “They move in shadows, manipulate puppets.  Some of them may be on your Council, yes.  As good a name as any.”

…(Harry reveals the hellfire at the attack on Arctis Tor)…

Quote

I turned to face him and sighed.  “I think you’re probably full of crap.  But okay, I’ll bite.  What long term issues?”
“Those surrounding the activities of your Black Council,” Nicodemus said.  “Are you certain you saw evidence of Hellfire in use at the site of the attack on Arctis Tor?”

…

Quote

..."Interesting.  Then the only question is if the contamination is among standing members of our Order or..."  He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow.
I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins.  "Someone in the Church," I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.

...

Quote

“Would you believe me if I told you that you and I might have a great many common interests in the future?”

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Quote

“Why,” I asked him.  “Why would Summer want Marcone taken by the Denarians?  Why would Summer want the Archive under their control?”
The gruff only stared at me for a long moment, but when he spoke I could have sworn that his voice sounded pensive.  Maybe even troubled.  “It is not my place to know such things—or to ask.”

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Quote

“Tessa and Rosanna,” I said quietly.  “They got their collection of thugs back.  They bailed at just the right moment to ruin your plans, too.”
“Deceitful bitches,” Nicodemus murmured.  “One of them is our own Judas; I was sure of it.”
I lifted my eyebrows.  “What?”
“That’s why I let them handle the more, shall we say, memorable aspects of the Archive’s initiation to our world,” Nicodemus said.  “I suppose now that the child is free, she’ll have some rather unpleasant associations with those two.”
“And you’re telling me this why?”
He shrugged a shoulder.  “It’s somewhat ironic, Dresden, that I can talk to you about this particular aspect of family business.  You’re the only one that I’m sure hasn’t gone over to this new force—this Black Council of yours.”

…(Nicodemus tells the Shadow to restrain Harry)…

Quote

“Dresden, I truly regret this necessity, but time is growing short.  I must act, and your talents could prove useful.  You’ll see.  Once we’ve cleared some of these well-intentioned idiots out of our way…”

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Quote

“You gotta think that maybe there’s a matter of balance, here,” he said.  “Maybe one archangel invested his strength in this situation overtly and immediately.  Maybe another one was just quieter about it.  Thinking long-term.  Maybe he already gave you a hand.”

…

Quote

Mab’s head moved slightly with the words, but it was Grimalkin’s mewling voice that actually spoke.  “The Prince of the Host is all pomp and ceremony, and when he moves it is with the thunder of the wings of an army of seraphim, the crash of drums, and the clamor of horns.  The Trumpeter never walks quietly when he can appear in a chorus of light.  The Demon Binder takes tasks upon his own shoulders and solves his problems with his own hands.  But the Watchman…” Mab smiled.  “Of all the archangels, I like him the most.  He is the quiet one.  The subtle one.  The one least known.  And by far the most dangerous.”

…

Quote

“Why?” I demanded.  “Why did you want the Denarians stopped?  Why send the hobs to kill the Archive?  Why recruit me to save the Archive and Marcone in the event that the hobs failed?”
Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me.  “Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition.  That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted.  And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home.”
“The Black Council attack on Arctis Tor,” I said.  “One of them used Hellfire.”
“Mab showed me her snow-white teeth.  “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day.  The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”
I frowned and thought of the silver hand that had batted the fallen angel and his master sorceries around as if he’d been a stuffed practice dummy.  “Thorned Namshiel.”
Mab’s eyes flashed with sudden, cold fury and frost literally formed over every surface of the chapel, including upon my own eyelashes.

…
Date with Luccio

Quote

“The Sight,” she replied calmly.  “Every wizard develops some measure of precognizance as he matures.  It sounds to me as if yours has begun to stir, and has recognized a place that may be of significance to you in the future.”

Edited to more closely match formatting and condense everything into a book tag for easy cut and paste.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Cenphx on December 03, 2012, 10:39:47 PM

@Second Aristh--your earlier post made me want to read the scene from SmF again. There's one line you left out which seems like its foreshadowing the next book and might be referencing nemesis. After Nicodemus asks Harry if he is sure Hellfire was used at Arctis Tor, Nic starts this exchange: " 'Interesting. Then the only question is if the contamination is among the standing members of our Order or...' He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow. I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins. 'Someone in the church,' I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.". Then Nic taunts Harry that they may shortly be on the same side...

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Silkki on December 03, 2012, 10:44:36 PM

(click to show/hide)

"-- but I’m just as vulnerable as everybody else.”
"I frowned at that thought. As vulnerable as everybody else. Something nagged at me from beneath the surface of my conscious calculations, but I couldn’t poke it into visibility. Yet."

I think this makes a nice pairing with Nic in DB.

"You don't want to see what you are,--  You are lying to yourself.  You pretend to be like any other mortal because you are too terrified to admit that you aren't."

I know this is not place for discussion, but if you want to link those two together, feel free : )

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Elegast on December 03, 2012, 10:45:33 PM

Quote

“Mab showed me her snow-white teeth.  “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day.  The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”

What a quote!

May I redirect this conversation toward this thread (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,35401.0.html)?  ;)

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Second Aristh on December 03, 2012, 11:06:20 PM

Quote from: Cenphx on December 03, 2012, 10:39:47 PM

@Second Aristh--your earlier post made me want to read the scene from SmF again. There's one line you left out which seems like its foreshadowing the next book and might be referencing nemesis. After Nicodemus asks Harry if he is sure Hellfire was used at Arctis Tor, Nic starts this exchange: " 'Interesting. Then the only question is if the contamination is among the standing members of our Order or...' He let the thought trail off and glanced at me, lifting an eyebrow. I followed the logic to the only other people in possession of any of the coins. 'Someone in the church,' I whispered, with a sick feeling in my stomach.". Then Nic taunts Harry that they may shortly be on the same side...

Added

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Elegast on December 08, 2012, 09:43:34 PM

Quote from: Serack on April 16, 2012, 01:33:06 PM

Here is a post I made last year that covers very similar things to yours.

---

So through the course of the series, during the narrative, Harry has mentioned (insert rediculiously stupid thing to do "A"), and later in the series he inevitably ends up doing "A" or some derivative thereof. 

I thought I'd like to make a list of these "Premonitions" that have happened through the course of the story, and try to come up with another list of potential things that might be premonitions of things that will happen later. 


Fufilled premonitions

• SF: Santa is a pretty powerful fae, summoning him and trapping him in a circle would take some pretty big brass ones*
      DB: Harry summons the Erlking, the Summer counterpart to Winter's Santa, and traps him in a circle
• GP:  (Susan, when Harry had trouble saying "I love you") "I'm going to get you to start talking if it kills you."
      GP:  Harry brings Susan back from Half Rampire bloodlust and brakes Lea's memory stealing spell by saying "I love you" and within minutes dies and has to be necessitated by Susan.
• GP: "So would killing every vampire on the planet. What's your point?"
      Changes: Well, you know
• SK: Harry sees Ebenezer enter White Council politics to save his former apprentice's neck and thinks it's a bad move on Eb's part
      PG: Harry enters into the White Council political fray to save his future apprentice's neck
• SK: Harry turns down Maeve's offer to pay for information by sleeping with Jenny Greenteeth because (amongst other reasons) he'd never be OK with leaving the child that would result with monsters/fae and for others to raise. 
      DM & Changes:  Harry has a child that ends up being raised by someone else without his knowledge, and it gets taken by monsters
• SK: Mab offers Harry a job as Winter Knight
      Changes: Harry becomes the WK
• PG: "You mean I'd have to die?"
      Changes: Well, you know

Potential Premonitions

• DM: Nichodemus offers Harry a position as a Denarian
• WK: "Who knows, you might make me into a saint.  Or as close to one as I could get, anyway."
• WK: "Defeat the whole damn White Court now.  Worry about taking on Hell later."
• SmF: "Even assuming I was stupid enough to go anywhere with you for an hour, much less a week, I saw how you treated Cassius.  I'm not real eager to slide my nameplate onto his office door"
• Changes:  On what people value in a home:  "I'd rather have my extra meaning come from an ancient burial ground under the swimming pool or from knowing that I built it with my own hands or something." (Ch. 24)
• Changes: "I'd have to kill a lot of people outright, if I wanted to use the Darkhallow."

Premonitions involving other characters
SmF:  Harry:  “Yeah. You’re a saint.”
“One day,” Nicodemus said. “One day.”

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on December 09, 2012, 01:57:50 PM

Man, I thought I had saved the original version of that in the DFRC.

Especially since it's one of the posts saved on my hard drive.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on June 12, 2013, 04:02:37 PM

Bump, apparently I let this fall off the back of my todo pile.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Serack on July 01, 2013, 02:17:22 PM

Update:

I added the BR quote from Corinthian's mentioned by earlier responses, as well as some passages from Eb. about his parents.

Added some quotes from Cold Days.  One pertaining to his mother, and 2 about his dalliances with death bringing some attention to Harry that he might not like.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: vietnamabc on November 06, 2014, 01:45:03 PM

Quote from: Serack on November 30, 2012, 08:53:08 PM

(click to show/hide)

"Love is patient. Love is kind. Love always forgives, trusts, supports, and endures. Love never fails. When every star in the heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more on the face of the deep, three things will endure: faith, hope, and love."

"And the greatest of these is love," I finished. "That's from the Bible."

"First Corinthians, chapter thirteen," Thomas confirmed.

[/spoiler]

Is it possible the Conrinthians talks about the three swords? So maybe at the end of BAT, only the three swords will be what remains against entropy?

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Tami Seven on November 06, 2014, 02:42:10 PM

There are some in Skin Games as well, but I can't  quote them. Like Michael  and Harry conversation  near the end.

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: frankcesca on November 07, 2014, 10:42:53 AM

Quote from: vietnamabc on November 06, 2014, 01:45:03 PM

Is it possible the Conrinthians talks about the three swords? So maybe at the end of BAT, only the three swords will be what remains against entropy?

Or against Empty Night? Interesting, but tough to support considering that I thought Harry'd be involved, and don't see him wielding a Sword...

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Quantus on November 11, 2014, 07:17:35 PM

Quote from: vietnamabc on November 06, 2014, 01:45:03 PM

Is it possible the Conrinthians talks about the three swords? So maybe at the end of BAT, only the three swords will be what remains against entropy?

Im pretty well convinced it is indeed talking about the Swords/Knights, and that the "Stars falling from the sky" bit is a reference to Empty Night, which based on what the Mothers said in CD (and the fact that it's the title of the Final Dresden novel) it refers to the Outsider's getting In.  We brought this up here a few posts back, which had links to the original thread discussing the idea. 

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: dspringer1 on March 27, 2015, 05:01:51 PM

I remember some other quotes, but do not have the books in front of me.

1) I thought Rasheed made some comment "it is not yet time for you to stand against the council...." that I thought was interesting.

2) Lash's comments in white knight, just before she sacrafices herself.  Ofthen thought a reference to starborn or harry's powers vs outsiders.

3) I thought some of the words of Mother Winter and Summer were interesting in CD or summer knight. 

4)  and some of the comments of demonreach were cryptic and might be interesting. 

Title: Re: Dialogues with Portents and Parents
Post by: Sharlee on April 26, 2015, 05:22:12 PM

How about Harry's dream-conversation with Malcolm by the campfire in Dead Beat?  Malcolm lists a whole bunch of events that await his son, and death is right in the middle of them, in keeping with Changes's position about halfway through the series.