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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: Elegast on November 24, 2012, 12:11:59 AM
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Ok, this is absolutely not a new theory, I just want to start a thread that can be used a reference. This is a work in progress, BTW.
Harry is Kemmler reborn
The Life and Works of Heinrich Kemmler
"Because that Kemmler was a certifiable nightmare," Bob said. "I mean, wow. He was sick, Harry. Evil."
That got my attention. Bob the skull was an air spirit, a being that existed in a world of knowledge without morality. He was fairly fuzzy on the whole good-evil conflict, and as a result he had only vague ideas of where lines got drawn. If Bob thought someone was evil, well… Kemmler must have really pushed the envelope.
"What'd he do?" I asked. "What made him so evil?"
"He was best known for World War One," Bob said.
"The whole thing?" I demanded.
"Mostly, yeah," Bob said. "There were about a hundred and fifty years of engineering built into it, and he had his fingers into all kinds of pies. He vanished at the end of hostilities and didn't show up again until he started animating mass graves during World War Two. Went on rampages out in Eastern Europe, where things were pretty much a nightmare even without his help. Nobody is sure how many people he killed."
"Stars and stones," I said. "Why would he do something like that?"
"A wild guess? He was freaky insane. Plus evil."
"You say 'was,'" I said. "Past tense?"
"Very," Bob said. "After what the guy did, the White Council hunted him down and wiped his dusty ass out in 1961."
"You mean the Wardens?"
"I mean the White Council," Bob said. "The Merlin, the whole Senior Council, the brute squad out of Archangel, the Wardens, and every wizard and ally the wizards could get their hands on."
I blinked. "For one man?"
"See above, regarding nightmare," Bob said. "Kemmler was a necromancer, Harry. Power over the dead. He had truck with demons, too, was buddies with most of the vampire Courts, every nasty in Europe, and some of the uglier faeries, too. Plus he had his own little cadre of baby Kemmlers to help him out. Apprentices. And thugs of every description."
"Damn," I said.
"Doubtless he was," Bob said. "They killed him pretty good. A bunch of times. He'd shown up again after the Wardens had killed him early in the nineteenth century, so they were real careful the second time. And good riddance to the psychotic bastard."
I blinked. "You knew him?"
"Didn't I ever tell you?" Bob asked. "He was my owner for about forty years."
I stared. "You worked with this monster?"
"I do what I do," Bob said proudly.
"How did Justin get you, then?"
"Justin DuMorne was a Warden, Harry, back at Kemmler's last stand. He pulled me out of the smoldering ruins of Kemmler's lab. Sort of like when you pulled me out of the smoldering ruins of Justin's lab when you killed him. Circle of life, like that Elton John song."
"Maybe," Bob said. "Council records stated that Kemmler had written three books; The Blood of Kemmler, The Mind of Kemmler, and The Heart of Kemmler."
"That you have little time," Mab said. She turned to face me again. "I must do what I might to preserve your life. Know this, mortal: Should Kemmler's heirs acquire the knowledge bound within the Word, they will be in a position to gather up such power as the world has not seen in many thousands of years."
"What? How?"
"Kemmler was"—Mab's eyes grew distant, as if in memory— "a madman. A monster. But brilliant. He learned how to bind to his will not only dead flesh, but shades—to rend them asunder and devour them to feed his own power. It was the secret of the strength that allowed him to defy all the White Council together."
Harry and necromancy
She might have been as long as a city bus, but Sue, despite her weight, moved with power and grace. As I'd called forth energy-charged ectoplasm to clothe the ancient bones, they had become covered in sheets of muscle and a hide of heavy, surprisingly supple quasi-flesh. She was dark grey, and there was a ripple pattern of black along her head, back, and flanks, almost like that of a jaguar. And once I had shaped the vessel, I had reached out and found the ancient spirit of the predator that had animated it in life.
Animals might not have the potential power of human remains. But the older the remains, the more magic can be drawn to fill them—and Sue was sixty-five million years old.
She had power. She had power in spades.
I found those spirits, reached out and touched them, one by one.
“Memorium,” I whispered. “Memoratum. Memortius.”
Energy rushed out of me. I shoved it out as fast as it would go, and I gave it to them. To the lost ones. The seduced, the betrayed, the homeless, the helpless. All the people the vampires had preyed on, through the years, all the dead I could reach. I reached out into the turmoil Bianca and her allies had created, and I gave those wandering shades power.
The house began to shake.
I gripped the wooden grain of my staff, recalling the feelings that had surged through me when I had summoned and bound the Lecters. I called on my memories one more time. I called up the ache of sore muscles after a hard workout, and the sheer physical joy of my body in motion during a run, walking down the street, sinking into a hot bath, swimming through cool water, stroking over the softness of another body beside mine. I thought of my favorite old T-shirt, a plain, black cotton one with 98% CHIMPANZEE written on the chest in white typeset letters. I thought of the creak of my old leather cowboy boots, the comfort of a good pair of jeans. The scent of a wood-smoked grill drifting into my nose when I was hungry, the way my mouth would water and my stomach would growl. I thought of my old Mickey Mouse alarm clock going off too early in the morning, and groaning out of bed to go to work. I remembered the smell of a favorite old book’s pages when I opened them again, and the smell of smoldering motor oil, a staple feature of my old Blue Beetle. I remembered the softness of Susan’s lips against mine. I remembered my daughter’s slight, warm weight in my arms, her exhausted body as limp as a rag doll’s. I remembered the way tears felt, sliding free of my eyes, the annoying blockage of congestion when I had a cold, and a thousand other things—little things, minor things, desperately important things.
You know. Life.
Then I did something fairly nutty, as I gathered the memory for what I was to attempt. I just uttered the spell in plain, old English. The energy seared through my thoughts in a way that would have been damaging to a living wizard, maybe fatal. It seemed appropriate to use it here, and I released whatever power I had left, clothing it in garments of memory, as I murmured the most basic of ideas, the foundation of words and of reality.
“Be.”
Given the way my life has typically progressed, I probably should have guessed that What Came Next was pain.
A whole lot of pain.
I tried to take a breath, and a searing burst of agony radiated out from my chest. I held off on the next breath for as long as I could, but eventually I couldn’t put it off anymore, and again fire spread across my chest.
I repeated that cycle for several moments, my entire reality consumed by the simple struggle to breathe and to avoid the pain. I was on the losing side of things, and if the pain didn’t exactly lessen, it did, eventually, become more bearable.
“Good,” whispered a dry, rasping voice. “Very good.”
I felt the rest of my body next. I was lying on something cool and contoured. It wasn’t precisely comfortable, but it wasn’t a torment, either. I clenched my fingers, but something was wrong with them. They barely moved. It was as though someone had replaced my bones and flesh with lead weights, heavy and inert, and my tendons and muscles were too weak to break the inertia. But I felt cool, damp earth crumbling beneath my fingertips.
“Doesn’t seem to bode well,” I mumbled. My tongue didn’t work right. My lips didn’t, either. The words came out a slushy mumble.
“Excellent,” rasped the voice. “I told you he had strength enough.”
Strange WOJ
Nah, the very foundations of the story worlds--their magic--are fundamentally incompatible. Potterverse magic is based largely upon the dictates of story drama. It's irrational, capricious, finicky, and generally doesn't make a lot of sense from any rational perspective. (Flick your wand like THIS not like THAT and say the word like THIS and not like THAT and it works.) Magic is a force unto itself, a law unto itself, and while it /does/ operate with absolute fidelity and consistency within the story world, it's beholden to no one.
Dresden universe magic is modeled more closely upon physics. Magic still has to pay attention to fundamental universal laws--such as "matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only rearranged." The energy for all those magical effects has to come from somewhere. There ain't no free lunch.
For instance, you could fly someone on a broom in the Dresden universe, but you'd have to be providing the same kind of kinetic energy you'd see from one of those James Bond rocket packs that they fly into the Superbowl from time to time--IE, a buttload. (Those packs are good for about twenty or twenty five seconds of flight, if I remember correctly, and that's it.) In the Potter universe, dozens of children who know next to nothing about magic can gad about on brooms in the afternoon for fun and recreation, and no one thinks anything of it. There's a foundational difference in the approach to how magic interacts with reality.
And yeah, Voldemort wouldn't have graduated high school in the Dresden universe. Once Tom Riddle started playing with the evil juju, someone in a grey cloak would have shown up to whack off his head and nipped him in the bud.
Unless, of course, someone more highly placed in the Council intervened on Riddle's behalf, and maybe gave the kid a little more guidance and maybe even a chance to choose a different path. Then, who knows.
Old Tom might up and do something else entirely with all that potentially-dark talent. >
Jim
Harry and the Kemmelrites
“I will make this offer exactly once, Dresden,” Evil Bob said quite calmly. He put his other hand on the staff, mirroring me, and I suddenly realized that if he wanted to, he could fling me considerably farther than he had Sir Stuart—assuming he didn’t just ram the staff straight back into my chest and out of my back.
I was suddenly unsure whether the spook squad could take Evil Bob even if they were all right there, Lecters, guardians, and all.
“What offer?” I asked him.
“A relationship,” he replied. “With me.”
Yeah. He actually said it like that.
“Um,” I said, narrowing my eyes. “Maybe you could clarify what you mean by a relationship. Because I’ve got to tell you, Bob, I’ve, uh . . . I’ve been hurt.”
The joke missed him completely. I was apparently snarking on the wrong frequency. “In the nature of an apprenticeship,” he said. “You have sound fundamental skills. You are practical. Your ambition is tempered by an understanding of your limits. You have the potential to be an excellent partner.”
“And I’m not flipping insane like the Corpsetaker,” I said.
“Hardly. But your insanities are more manageable,” Evil Bob said, “and you have few self-delusions.” He sniffed. “The Master never favored that creature, in any case. But he would have been interested in you.”
“You were able to manifest after all? Intriguing. You’ve a natural gift for darker magic, I think. My master would have snapped you up in an instant.”
Trivia
- Harry was born on Halloween, the day of the deads.
- most people who see Harry's soul are terrified, some of them even faint
- Harry and some of his allies (Uriel, Mab) have a proclivity for mass-murder
- Harry is a wizard of tremendous power (top thirty in raw strength in the whole world at minimum)
- Harry is one of the few wizards ever to come back from the deads
- Harry has mastered the Word of Kemmler in a few moments
- Justin knew Kemmler, at least as an ennemy (he stole Bob)
- Cowl, proficient in Kemmler's magic, may be Simon Petrovitch, Justin's master
- the Council is terrified of Harry, 'what he was meant to be'
- Demonreach accepted Harry as a Warden when he recieved a piece of Harry's soul. (semi-speculation based on WOJ). A position which had been vacant for some time...
- Harry is a natural leader
- Harry is Law-breaker
- Harry has a talent for dark magic
- Harry is a rebel
- Harry has started a world war
- It was implied in GS that Harry's soul would go to Hell
The Theory
Uriel’s smile blossomed again. “You’ve got it backward, Harry,” he said. “You are a soul. You have a body.”
Kemmler is well known for his multiple resurrections. If he followed Corpsetaker's playbook, it seems that necromancers simply move their souls between bodies, kicking out the soul that was there previously. There is no reason that it couldn't work on a single cell. As there is no brain, the memories are not transfered, but as Lea said, all memories are still in the soul.
Then we have to find a motivation. I see at least two:
Firstly, each time Kemmler came back he was crushed by the WC. With a new identity and a new life he would be at last free from council interference.
Secondly, he wanted to be an Outsiderbane. The power of outsiderbane is linked to the date of birth. So with this new birth he finally gained this rare and dangerous ability.
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The power of outsiderbane is linked to the date of birth. So with this new birth he finally gained this rare and dangerous ability.
Not quite, Elaine and Harry were born months apart and they both got to be Outsiderbanes (or at least have the potential to be).
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All you have is circumstantial evidence that has nothing to do with your theory and baseless conjecture. There isnt a single hard fact supporting your theory. This may sound harsh, but there isnt a kinder way to say it.
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All you have is circumstantial evidence that has nothing to do with your theory and baseless conjecture. There isnt a single hard fact supporting your theory. This may sound harsh, but there isnt a kinder way to say it.
You must be new here.
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All you have is circumstantial evidence that has nothing to do with your theory and baseless conjecture. There isnt a single hard fact supporting your theory. This may sound harsh, but there isnt a kinder way to say it.
That's absolutely true. And that's not /my/ theory. It has been discussed many times on other threads: see here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,31224.0.html) and in even older threads which were lost in the servor crash.
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Hmmm ... interesting in a TVTropes "Epileptic Trees" kind of way. I'm not buying yet, but you do bring up an interesting possibility.
The one problem I see is Uriel. I'm fairly certain that coming back in this manner would break "The Rules," and Uriel would have done his level best to reduce Kemmler to mage pate, provided he was in a position where the aforementioned Rules would allow him to do so. But since "the Rules" have not been explicitly spelled out, all I can do is call it a suspicion on my part.
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The one problem I see is Uriel. I'm fairly certain that coming back in this manner would break "The Rules," and Uriel would have done his level best to reduce Kemmler to mage pate, provided he was in a position where the aforementioned Rules would allow him to do so. But since "the Rules" have not been explicitly spelled out, all I can do is call it a suspicion on my part.
Actually, I believe that the Rules only apply to angels. If archangels started bossing around mere mortels, then there would be no free will, we would be slaves.
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Hmmm ... interesting in a TVTropes "Epileptic Trees" kind of way. I'm not buying yet, but you do bring up an interesting possibility.
This one is nice too: Chekhov's Armoury (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsArmoury). Quite relevant to the Dresden Files.
I'm a lazy writer.
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This one is nice too: Chekhov's Armoury (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsArmoury). Quite relevant to the Dresden Files.
I hope you're happy about killing the social lives of several lurkers (me, I was at TvTropes before this site).
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Actually, I believe that the Rules only apply to angels. If archangels started bossing around mere mortels, then there would be no free will, we would be slaves.
Hmmm ... I can agree that "the Rules" Uriel was speaking of apply to angels, but does that mean there are no "Rules" that apply to humans? Remember, Kemmler also had "truck with demons," so this goes beyond just normal interactions governed by human rules.
I'd bet Uriel had the power to enforce the "Once you're dead, youstay dead" with Kemmler if he wanted to/was allowed to. I don't see him being so willing to help Dresden if Dresden was Kemmler reborn.
Admittedly, it's all speculation (fun, but possibly useless). Like I said, I'm not buying ... yet. ;)
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I hope you're happy about killing the social lives of several lurkers (me, I was at TvTropes before this site).
I used to be on a forum where a warning was required for links to TVT. ;D
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Admittedly, it's all speculation (fun, but possibly useless). Like I said, I'm not buying ... yet. ;)
At this point neither do I. But it's far from being the most far-fetched theory ever discussed on this forum, and as Serack has started an effort to make references for all the major theories, I felt like doing one for this one.
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I noted a similarity between Harry and Kemmler back when Harry ends up eating the nightmare. He thereby gained back his power, plus more. I didn't think though that Harry is Kemmler reborn at the time. And, still don't. But I am interested in wondering what Harry was meant to be, at least from the perspective of all those White Council bigwigs who feared Harry and/or what he was meant to become.
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I noted a similarity between Harry and Kemmler back when Harry ends up eating the nightmare. He thereby gained back his power, plus more. I didn't think though that Harry is Kemmler reborn at the time. And, still don't. But I am interested in wondering what Harry was meant to be, at least from the perspective of all those White Council bigwigs who feared Harry and/or what he was meant to become.
This has always surprised me as an incredibly dark act, and no one really comments on it. I guess the fact that Bob is basically amoral doesn't really help Harry define where the lines should be when making decisions. Hell, he does at lease ONE questionable thing per book, and I don't think we really have perspective on it until after the fact, and sometimes it's like "oh yeah, whoops."
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meh, I thought that we already had this thread a few times. I really don't think that this is the case and we already have multiple WoJ saying that both Kemmler and Justin are D-E-D DEAD! I don't particularly trust Jim in certain plot points but I think that I will on this one.
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I noted a similarity between Harry and Kemmler back when Harry ends up eating the nightmare. He thereby gained back his power, plus more. I didn't think though that Harry is Kemmler reborn at the time. And, still don't. But I am interested in wondering what Harry was meant to be, at least from the perspective of all those White Council bigwigs who feared Harry and/or what he was meant to become.
Apparently if the senior council pooled their knowledge, they would have all the information about Harry's past. Seems like that would kind of undercut this theory before it gets much momentum. If the SC knew that Harry was Kemmler reborn, I think they'd have a more violent reaction.
Q: Given that so many creatures of the NeverNever know stuff about Harry – his mother, that Thomas is his brother, etc. – how can it be that the Senior Council doesn’t know?
A: They know. No one person on the SC knows everything about Harry, but between them all they could put it together. That is a group where having information is a means of power; they each have a lot of information but they don’t necessarily know who knows what.
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meh, I thought that we already had this thread a few times. I really don't think that this is the case and we already have multiple WoJ saying that both Kemmler and Justin are D-E-D DEAD! I don't particularly trust Jim in certain plot points but I think that I will on this one.
domino7: 2) How do you feel when people keep talking about Justin/Kemmler/Others as being not REALLY dead even after you've said that they're dead? Flattered that they think you're twisty and devious? Annoyed that they don't take a hint?
Jim: 2) Oh, man, /I/ wouldn't trust me, if I was reading me. I tell giant, complicated, long-term LIES for a living, man. People pay me to manipulate their emotions--to make them laugh and cry, to cheer for the good guys and to hate the bad guys. What kind of person /does/ that for a living? I'll tell you what kind: the shifty, devious, untrustworthy kind. Don't believe a word I say. And they're Dead.
But there are levels of Dead, obviously. So was Harry.
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Jim also just recently pointed out, in reference to that same point, that Harry was D-E-D Dead as well.
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Could someone explain D-E-D dead please? it is useed quite alot and the term isnt in the dictionary.
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Jim also just recently pointed out, in reference to that same point, that Harry was D-E-D Dead as well.
TheCuriousFan previously asked me to provide a link/quote to Jim saying that after I touted that WoJ. I couldn't find it though. Could you provide a link/quote?
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TheCuriousFan previously asked me to provide a link/quote to Jim saying that after I touted that WoJ. I couldn't find it though. Could you provide a link/quote?
domino7: 2) How do you feel when people keep talking about Justin/Kemmler/Others as being not REALLY dead even after you've said that they're dead? Flattered that they think you're twisty and devious? Annoyed that they don't take a hint?
Jim: 2) Oh, man, /I/ wouldn't trust me, if I was reading me. I tell giant, complicated, long-term LIES for a living, man. People pay me to manipulate their emotions--to make them laugh and cry, to cheer for the good guys and to hate the bad guys. What kind of person /does/ that for a living? I'll tell you what kind: the shifty, devious, untrustworthy kind. Don't believe a word I say. And they're Dead.
But there are levels of Dead, obviously. So was Harry.
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Wrong quote Dragoneyes, sorry. The one requested is several years old.
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Wrong quote Dragoneyes, sorry. The one requested is several years old.
That's cool. This is the one I was referring to.
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I don't really see it as Harry being a necromancer so much (though he clearly has ability with it) as it seems that Harry isn't really as limited by the 'barriers' between worlds/realities/magics as most wizards appear to be.
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The difference is "They are dead".
Harry was dead.
One is the present the other is the past.
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This has always surprised me as an incredibly dark act, and no one really comments on it.
I'm not seeing it. Kravos' ghost is a bunch of memories, no soul involved, and Kravos is a sorcerer, not a wizard, so all Harry gets from it is a handful of pre-charged spells which we never see him use again after the end of GP, so it seems logical that they are all used up; no long-term effect at all sfaict.
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meh, I thought that we already had this thread a few times. I really don't think that this is the case and we already have multiple WoJ saying that both Kemmler and Justin are D-E-D DEAD! I don't particularly trust Jim in certain plot points but I think that I will on this one.
I trusted that quite a bit more pre-having a whole book of Harry being dead than I do now.
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I repeat, could someone please explain what DED dead is?
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Not anywhere near the same as d-e-a-d Dead, apparently.
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I repeat, could someone please explain what DED dead is?
D-E-D dead is Jim emphasizing dead and being cute at the same time.
Okay, I just wanna say I finished reading Proven Guilty just a while ago and I have a real quick question before the serious interview: "Justin's behind everything, isn't he?"
Justin's dead...look, look...he's dead, he's dead.
Dead, dead?
Jim: He's dead!
Very dead?
Jim: D-E-D dead.
Are you ever gonna change your answer, dead?
Jim: Dead.
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Not anywhere near the same as d-e-a-d Dead, apparently.
Well, we don't know that, we have yet to see D-E-D dead people come back yet. (Harry was just plain old dead, yes?)
The D-E-D Dead quote is from when someone asked Jim about either Justin or Kemmler, and he responded that they were D-E-D dead. I don't know that he has gone on record as saying that Harry was D-E-D dead (or that it actually makes any kind of difference)
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I can’t buy that Harry is Kemmler reborn.
I can buy that Harry has a natural flare for necromancy that he has not yet admitted to himself.
If Harry was Kemmler, I think that Evil Bob would have recognized him as such and rather than the "Master would have liked you" lines, Evil Bob would have said something like “Master! Do you not know your true self? Let me help you remember… blah blah… then let’s plan WWIII… etc…”
Also Harry has been soul gazed by folks like Michael and Eb and met with approval. If Harry is Kemmler then Eb and Uriel’s team are all closet evil doers molding Harry waiting for him to remember his true self.
Also while being D.E.D. dead in GS, Harry had no I am Kemmler memory flash backs while thinking about and talking to Evil Bob and the Corpstaker. Yet when he first saw Karen he had a ton of unbidden Karen/Harry flash backs.
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Harry was only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead.
Every indication that we have is that Kemmler is all dead. And sure, we shouldn't completely trust Jim but so far he hasn't outright lied to us either.
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Harry was only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead.
Every indication that we have is that Kemmler is all dead. And sure, we shouldn't completely trust Jim but so far he hasn't outright lied to us either.
Would you agree that Corpstaker was all dead or mostly dead?
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I think that Corpstaker was only mostly dead. When Mort took her down Harry heard the south bound train. Every time that a spirit has disappeared we have just seen them fall apart and the memories pop out. The south bound train and angel of death are apparently for souls.
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I have to say shot in back of head is completely dead. Now in this series that does not bar you from making a come back it appears.
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Also Harry has been soul gazed by folks like Michael and Eb and met with approval. If Harry is Kemmler then Eb and Uriel’s team are all closet evil doers molding Harry waiting for him to remember his true self.
This. Further, I would hazard a guess that Uriel can see whatever information a soul-gaze transmits without actually entering a soul-gaze.
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I'm not seeing it. Kravos' ghost is a bunch of memories, no soul involved, and Kravos is a sorcerer, not a wizard, so all Harry gets from it is a handful of pre-charged spells which we never see him use again after the end of GP, so it seems logical that they are all used up; no long-term effect at all sfaict.
We are told that Kemmler used this exact technique of devouring spirits (not souls) as fuel for his own power, and the more powerful the spirits, the more power he gets from it; all in service to exposition of his evil insanity. Each time it is brought up, by Bob, by Mort, by the Wardens or other figures in reference to Kemmler, we are told that the spirits are scared of him, he devours them, or they feed his power. The ascension rite itself is fueled by eating spirits.
And we have no evidence that there is no long term effects, one way or the other. Should Harry have long term access to the spells just because he devoured the spirit? I have no idea, but that doesn't mean that extra boost has gone away, nor the mark of the spirit-Kravos. I am not saying you're wrong, but it just bugged me then, and topic brought it all back up.
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I'm not seeing it. Kravos' ghost is a bunch of memories, no soul involved, and Kravos is a sorcerer, not a wizard, so all Harry gets from it is a handful of pre-charged spells which we never see him use again after the end of GP, so it seems logical that they are all used up; no long-term effect at all sfaict.
The Nightmare was hoisted by his own
petard in the end: as he’d consumed Harry’s
power, Harry consumed him, entirely, regaining
his stolen talent…as well as Kravos’.
Between this and the comment about him having a lot more stains from black magic than from what he's done by the Loa back in DM I'd say he did keep the power.
Even though you dislike the rpg being used for quotes, I'd say Harry's probably a reliable source on the matter of whether or not he kept Kravos' power.
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Could someone explain D-E-D dead please? it is useed quite alot and the term isnt in the dictionary.
It is just emphasis I think. Screaming if you want to be less polite. You do these things if people are not listening.
It only tells you that the soul has left the body and not if it still has some options to get back or get another one. People never seem to ask Jim if someone is dead and departed. Moved on.
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I'm not seeing it. Kravos' ghost is a bunch of memories, no soul involved, and Kravos is a sorcerer, not a wizard, so all Harry gets from it is a handful of pre-charged spells which we never see him use again after the end of GP, so it seems logical that they are all used up; no long-term effect at all sfaict.
Yeah, but all of them are just a bunch of memories. Harry was an extremely rare case that still had his soul attached.
And on the d-e-d thing it's a cartoon reference I believe. Maybe the guy who hunted bugs bunny? He always spelled things out but spelled them wrong
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Yeah, but all of them are just a bunch of memories. Harry was an extremely rare case that still had his soul attached.
And on the d-e-d thing it's a cartoon reference I believe. Maybe the guy who hunted bugs bunny? He always spelled things out but spelled them wrong
Maybe rare but not extremely rare. Everything points to corpstaker as having a soul as well. Kemmler must have used the sa me trick as well.i think it is a path you can choose when you die in the dresdenverse. You might need knowledge, ability or opportunity but maybe not even that.
It could be the reason for ancestor worship. If your ancestors stay with the tribe and the tribe keeps remembering them they could be a source of spiritual power.
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We are told that Kemmler used this exact technique of devouring spirits (not souls) as fuel for his own power, and the more powerful the spirits, the more power he gets from it; all in service to exposition of his evil insanity.
We Also know that memories are important to ghosts. No more memories, no more ghost. When sir Stuart shot the ghost, he used memories as a bullet. And he got "energy" back from the remains of the ghost. If I recall correctly, Harry did something similar while being a ghost. The fact that you can do something similar does not make you Kemmler.
Besides, We have been speculating that Kemmler could jump bodies like Corpstaker. It seems far more likely that he jumped bodies before he died than that he somehow was reborn in another body without the memories, drive and desires. Simon for example was fighting him and could be one of the people he jumped into (his disappearance/death later being a great way for him to return to his old dealings). Then again this does not explain how Kemmler returned the first time. It would help a lot if we had more info on Kemmler (besides how he did it ;)). Things as, Did the returned Kemmler have the same body? Was he helped with his return? Were certain items important in the returning process? etc...
So I do not believe that Harry is Kemmler reborn. Evil Bob would have recognised Harry as being him. But you and others make a valid point that the darkness in Harry must be explained somehow.
D-E-D dead is Jim emphasizing dead and being cute at the same time.
I might be mistaken, but isn't "Dead, D-E-D Dead" also a movie quote?
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Between this and the comment about him having a lot more stains from black magic than from what he's done by the Loa back in DM I'd say he did keep the power.
Distinguishing the putative mark of Kravos from the independently confirmed mark of HWWB there seems kind of hard.
Even though you dislike the rpg being used for quotes, I'd say Harry's probably a reliable source on the matter of whether or not he kept Kravos' power.
If so, we've seen precious little allusion to it since.
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We Also know that memories are important to ghosts. No more memories, no more ghost. When sir Stuart shot the ghost, he used memories as a bullet. And he got "energy" back from the remains of the ghost. If I recall correctly, Harry did something similar while being a ghost. The fact that you can do something similar does not make you Kemmler.
No, the thing that makes you similar is the choice to do it.
So I do not believe that Harry is Kemmler reborn. Evil Bob would have recognised Harry as being him. But you and others make a valid point that the darkness in Harry must be explained somehow.
Yeah, I am also unconvinced, but I can definitely see the plausibility with this compendium. I think it might be worth while to index and categorize the dark things he's done, now that we have a clearer picture of the altercation with Justin and HWWB.
I must admit that I am a bit more like Bob when it comes to the good vs. evil lines-in-the-sand on a per book basis, and would have to re-read the books JUST to inventory the questionable actions I gloss over ordinarily.
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I might be mistaken, but isn't "Dead, D-E-D Dead" also a movie quote?
I know it was used in Robin Hood: Men in Tights (here's the specific scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqDH3wPoA9A)), but I don't know that that's the first usage.
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If so, we've seen precious little allusion to it since.
Perhaps he doesn't like talking about the time he ate someone alive?
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It occurs to me that in a few days, a certain White Council of Wizards may, in fact, have this exact same discussion.
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Perhaps he doesn't like talking about the time he ate someone alive?
Perhaps, but considering how open he is in the text about the effect lash has on him and how much he is looking out for her influence for several books, as well as several other things he does not like talking about to other in-universe people, I would have thought any long-term effect he had noticed from Kravos would have been mentioned.
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Apparently if the senior council pooled their knowledge, they would have all the information about Harry's past. Seems like that would kind of undercut this theory before it gets much momentum. If the SC knew that Harry was Kemmler reborn, I think they'd have a more violent reaction.
The Merlin tried to kill him at least two times, that seem to me a pretty violent reaction....
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OMG. I know it's a coincidence (nearly-WOJ), but:
Heinrich is a given name of Germanic origin and cognate of "Henry".
Harry is a male given name, the Middle English form of Henry.
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D-E-D dead is Jim emphasizing dead and being cute at the same time.
Here's the video where the quote comes from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DbsSGiGCmw
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I know it was used in Robin Hood: Men in Tights (here's the specific scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqDH3wPoA9A)), but I don't know that that's the first usage.
Thanks, It was really bugging me. I would NEVER have guessed that one...
EDIT: I just found out the first time it was used, was Grease 2...