Who will the swords be given to is another one that pops up or gets referenced in DM, PG and SmF.
Will this get stickied to the board and be routinely updated as the series progresses? Because that would make it easier for people to make new theories.
Like while editing in some threads for Storm Front, I started thinking how the times Jim has invested ink into revealing some of the Persephonie thread happen to be in the book 5, 10 schedule...
DM and WN, iirc, which is 5 and 9 rather than 5 and 10.
Helen Becket
Also, I cant find the reference section, where is it?
Also, I'm not certain what your criteria are for separating various threads/arcs
This has the potential to be a pretty epic thread and a great resource for theorycrafting.
Here's my contribution:
Fool Moon:
- The Alphas
- Tera West
- MacFinn (the loup-garou)
- Harry having apprentices or mentoring other practitioners (Kim Delaney) (Not really a plot thread per se, but it sets up Molly later)
- Marcone
- Hendricks? (Not sure when he's introduced or what books he's relevant in)
- FBI Agents
- Full Moon Garage lycanthropes
- Murphy and Special Investigations
- Susan (add to Storm Front as well)
- Public notice of the supernatural (Susan's footage on the news, which then disappears)
Storm Front.
Heart explosion spell that Sells uses is the same as the Red Court spell in Changes.
Fool Moon, the last paragraph is talking about there being a monster who set everything up paving the way for the future Black Council.
Tera West is barely mentioned in SK, and per Jim is supposed to show up again, but hasn't yet (although it's a big theory of mine that she is Fitz's mom). I am going to define this as not "Series Spanning." Same with the Loup Garou, and Full Moon Garage (I considered this one, but it's really just a recycled prop, not a thread).Doesnt Harry officially morph "TWaS:RCT" (What does that stand for anyway?) into Black Council at the end of the book where Articus Tor gets torched (Cant remember the name of the book off the top of my head right now)? If so, then any conspirosy theories before that book are TWaS:RCT theories.
Hendrix is almost an appendage of Marcone's character, so I don't know that I will list him separately.
I think I will blanket this under "This was a setup: running Conspiracy Theory, AKA TWaS:RCT" which I will start in FM.
Edit: By the way, would someone please help me identify every book where "TWaS:RCT" is mentioned before it morphs into "Black Council: Running Conspiracy Theory" (BC:RCT)?
Rather than considering the smaller number patterns, which gets awkward due to the way some of the categories tend to blur together, I'm sticking with the "Book #1-10, plus 10" pattern. It doesn't work with Storm Front or Fool Moon, but it seems to work fairly well for the three books after that.
Book #3: All about ghosts, and one ghost in particular, the Nightmare. Harry generates a ghost himself.
Book #13: All about ghosts, and Harry himself is one for all but the final chapter.
Book #4: All about the fae, even called Summer Knight.
Book #14: Apparently all about the fae, and was almost called Winter Knight.
Book #5: We get introduced to the Denarians, and they figure most prominently in the story.
Book #15: We've been told that this will be the next time we see the Denarians.
Following this pattern, we get:
Book #6: Mostly about the White Court, especially the inner politics of said Court.
Book #16: Will the White Court figure prominently in the story? Maybe things with Lara come to a head?
Book 2 - a major character who is cursed with a supernatural condition later in life (Finn)
Book 12 - major character who is cursed with a supernatural condition later in life (Susan)
That's very weak however.
Book #6: Mostly about the White Court, especially the inner politics of said Court.
Book #16: Will the White Court figure prominently in the story? Maybe things with Lara come to a head?
Audience member: I was wondering, are we going to learn anything more about the White Court anytime soon? And can a human becomes a White Court vampire?
Jim: Are we going to hear any any more about the White Court anytime soon? can a human becomes a White Court vampire? The answer to that is we will probably find out more about them not in the next book but the one after or maybe the one after that. As far as humans becoming one, no, you gotta be born that way. (points) Right here, blue shirt.
I'm pretty sure that Butters was named, or at least mentioned before DB, but Grave Peril seems to only mention that the bones in the fire appeared to be warped to inhuman contortions in the heat without mentioning the medical examiner that came to conclusions about them not being human.
I want to move on to other issues, so if anyone can pinpoint some details on his initial, pre DB intro I'd appreciate it.
Butters was in Death Masks with the body of the guy who got caught by the Denarians, tortured and infected with literally every disease in the books.
No time now, but Elaine first gets mentioned in Book 2 by Harry's inner jerk. There's quite a discussion about it, actually. So I would move her appearance to that book.
Are you sure she hadn't been mentioned in SF as a regret he has to live with?
I'm often good with all these kinds of details, but ATM I'm juggling a LOT of them :)
She was mentioned as probably being alive by his subconscious since the Wardens never found a second set of bones at Justin's house, Harry denies the possibility.
Are you sure she hadn't ALSO been mentioned in SF as a regret he has to live with?
I'm often good with all these kinds of details, but ATM I'm juggling a LOT of them :)
"by his subconcious" implies to me that you are referring to events in FM. I'm asking about narration in SF. Hmmm, leme clarify...
True, I'd have to do a real long search through my copy of Storm Front to find a quote like that, I don't have the e-books.
True, I'd have to do a real long search through my copy of Storm Front to find a quote like that, I don't have the e-books.
I think there's an allusion to having killed his first love in SF, in or around the chapter where Harry meets Susan in Mac's, but Elaine is not named there.
Wow, awesome effort Serack.
I'd like to propose a revision to the "Morgan's animosity" in the Storm Front section. That's actually just a subset of possibly the single most important theme we've seen so far - Harry's different moral outlook than the Wouncil.
Harry, Eb, LtW and Rashid all believe in the possibility of rehabilitation for young wizards that have made one or two mistakes. This puts them directly in conflict with the views of other members of the Wouncil, notably the Merlin and Morgan. Harry goes even further than Eb and actually expresses the belief that the Wouncil has a responsibility to identify and educate young talent regarding the Laws of Magic before they have a chance to become warlocks.
This theme is introduced in SF with Harry's background and directly reoccurs in PG with the story of Molly and appears to be a major theme of GS (both Molly and the sorcerer's gang). It's also explored in Dead Beat with Harry's use of necromancy and in the characters of Cowl and Kumori. It's hinted that Maggie Sr. shared Harry's opinion that the Wouncil is shirking its responsibilities toward minor talents, which means this theme may reoccur when the mystery surrounding Harry's mother is explained (it's potentially what drove her to the Fae and/or Black Council). Harry's differences in opinion are what cause him to let Elaine go free in SK, it's partially responsibility for his involvement in WN, and it's what encourages him to help set up the Paranet so the minor talents can protect themselves where the Wouncil has failed. Finally, the answer as to whether Harry is right regarding the ability to rehabilitate emerging Warlocks is rooted in another core theme of the book - free will.
I'd write it like this:
Harry v. White Council
- Rehabilitation of Warlocks
- White Council's responsibilities toward new and/or minor talents
- Morgan's animosity toward Harry
- Morality of necromancy
*fishes for comments/compliments on the formatting*I know you've put a lot of work into this already, and I'm not sure how painful it would be do change, but in the end, this kind of thing might be more readable if it was organized from the other direction. Have a large plotline as a main bullet point; then put the details from each of the books where that plot was extended. For example
All these sub bullets make the formatting a little tedious... I origionally wanted the book bullets to be numbered, but It appears that adding the horizontal line code between them broke that.
Edit: It appears that keeping the books bulleted retains the lack of spacing between the book and it's sub bullets though... Remove the bullets for the books and they get a significant dead space added there.
I know you've put a lot of work into this already, and I'm not sure how painful it would be do change, but in the end, this kind of thing might be more readable if it was organized from the other direction. Have a large plotline as a main bullet point; then put the details from each of the books where that plot was extended. For exampleI like the merits of my current system enough to stick with it (Plus the amount of effort and momentum it already has). This is a pretty good idea, however it would have to be done very carefully to avoid it bloating into "The Exaustive Topic of Every Theory Possible Through the Ages"
White Council Vampire War
Storm Front
Grave Peril
- Harry uses the sunshine hankie on Bianca, causing her to lose control and kill her assistant
- Bianca teams up with Mavra
- more stuff...
[/l][/l]
- Harry starts vampire war by saving susan
etc...
In order to keep it from getting quite so bulky, each of the plot lines could be done inside a spoiler type tag so people could just look at the one they are interested in.[/q]
[/list]
I had been a miserable failure in relationships, ever since my first love went sour. I mean, a lot of teenage guys fail in their first relationships.
Not many of them murder the girl involved.
I shied away from that line of thought, lest it bring up too many old memories.
I've checked, there is.
Just a few points I thought might be worth including,
Blood Rites:
-Mavra burns Harry's Hand. (A minor point with almost no long lasting implications beyond forcing Harry to beef up his shield.)
Dead Beat:
-Wizard healing/longevity are introduced.
-Both Evil Bob and Grevane refer to necromancy as "The True Magic". It is different enough from normal magic that it stains the user. Grevane (and Ulsharavas from DM) can sense it in Harry. Harry can sense it in Cowl.
Not sure if any of those are Thread worthy, just a couple observations.
Is there any way I can vote for/request that you remove the individual spoiler tags and just put one big one in the subject line?
I really enjoy this topic, but it's annoying to have to do that every time I check for updates.
(Yes, I'm lazy)
Book #4: All about the fae, even called Summer Knight.
Book #14: Apparently all about the fae, and was almost called Winter Knight.
Dead Beat:
-Wizard healing/longevity are introduced.
-Both Evil Bob and Grevane refer to necromancy as "The True Magic". It is different enough from normal magic that it stains the user. Grevane (and Ulsharavas from DM) can sense it in Harry. Harry can sense it in Cowl.
Is there any way I can vote for/request that you remove the individual spoiler tags and just put one big one in the subject line?
I really enjoy this topic, but it's annoying to have to do that every time I check for updates.
(Yes, I'm lazy)
Edit due to too many posts: Got it, Serack, thanks. :)
I'm thinking of labling this thread "Harry Fights for Rehabilitation & Empowerment" (HFfR&E)
The Hand burn is significant. I've been tossing around how to include it, but the thing is, I have already written up a great reference about Harry's Power Ups (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26613.0.html), that does a great job of emphasizing the significance of that event... I think I might add a reference to that topic near the top of this reference and let it serve as the reference for any events that touch on Harry's power as a thread in and of itself.
*snip*I've come to the same conclusions based on the hints/explanations we've been given.
This is all conjecture on my part, though, put together from the various pieces of information in the books. I don't have any solid evidence that things work exactly this way, except that this description seems to fit with all of the information we've been given over the course of the series.
When did Harry first start having /significant/ headaches? SmF?
He had them in SmF, yes, but the headaches in SmF didn't start until after he got kicked in the face and had his nose broken. The book didn't open up with him having headaches. Turn Coat did open up that way, though, mentioning that the headaches had been continuing for the past several months. But I think it's important to note that there seems to have been something like a year and a half between SmF and TC-- SmF takes place in November of 8 ASF and TC takes place in the summer of 10 ASF-- so "the past several months" wouldn't seem to come close to covering that amount of time. This, to me, suggests that the headaches in TC are unrelated to the headaches in SmF.
At a guess, the sequence of events seems to have been: the SmF headaches got better, Harry's nose healed, and a year or so passed. Then, several months before Turn Coat, Harry started getting headaches again, migraines, with no apparent cause. Many people, myself included, believe these were probably the Ice Cream Headaches of Paradox.
I thought the quacker had tied them to a similar headache associated with Mab's Memory mod involving his fire magic, thus tying them to the "tarp" over LC.
I thought the quacker had tied them to a similar headache associated with Mab's Memory mod involving his fire magic, thus tying them to the "tarp" over LC.
I don't remember much about the "tarp over LC" idea. It always seemed kinda flimsy to me, seemingly based entirely on a lack of mention in Changes, rather than the mention of any specific evidence.
Harry did have sharp, piercing headaches whenever he tried to remember his blasting rod in SmF, but those weren't continuous things. They seemed to happen whenever his thoughts got too close to the subject of fire magic, which Mab had blocked from his mind. They weren't an always-on thing, and they passed without Harry even really noticing them, except to think, "Wtf??"-- at least, up until Michael brought it to his attention, and then he collapsed.
But those headaches didn't leave him lying on the couch with a migraine on and off for months, the way he was at the beginning of Turn Coat. For a memory-mod headache to do that, from the example shown in SmF, Harry would have to be constantly reminded of something he'd been forced to forget. Otherwise the headache would pass and he'd move on to thinking about something else, the way he did in SmF-- at least, if the example of the fire magic block in Small Favor is indicative of how those kinds of headaches work. It doesn't seem like Little Chicago would be something which would demand his attention frequently enough to account for the migraines in TC.
Aside from that, I don't remember anything about the tarp/memory-mod theory. Someone else will have to describe it, if you want to add stuff in about it.
Stone Table