PR: Harry is the “get back up” guy.
JB: He is. He is. And that was a very conscious choice in the beginning, too. I wanted a guy that I could beat up a lot. And it wasn't actually until about the fourth book in that a fan pointed out, “hey, you've done this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and he's taken all these injuries here. I'm a professional therapist, and he would take this much therapy to get back from this, and he would never recover from this..” and I'm like, “wow, you really have beaten him up a lot. You know, wizards must just be better at getting better than other people, I need to write that in. Hey, we'll tie that in with how long they live, and, okay, cool. That works. That's good.”
PR: I always think of that in terms of course correction. You get some feedback, or a Beta reader gives you...
JB: Absolutely.
PR: And then you're like, “oh, that's a really good point, I guess you can't have a million people living in a pre-industrial society, you know, everyone dies of dysentery.” So, how much of that do you tend to engage in as the series goes on, because you have a story and a story and a story, whereas I tend to do a huge block of story, and then there's a three-year gap, how much course direction would you say you do with the overall story in between books based on feedback?
JB: Considerable. I mean, when someone has a good point they have a good point, and I'm not a perfect person, so when someone will point something like that out, I'll go, “okay, how can I take this and how can I use it as part of the story, and either keep it the way it is and have a good reason for it to be that way, or else spin it, or fix it, or have somebody realize something new about the world that hasn't been brought out before. I mean, that's kind of the creative challenge is kind of “how to make this cooler and better?” and not, “how do I let this be a big hole in my story somewhere?” How to make it stronger, instead of less.
PR: And I think one of the great strengths of your writing is the reasonableness of it. Because sometimes you can tell somebody's patching a plot-hole, and it's just like they're putting a poster over the hole in the wall, but when you present one of these explanations, it's so smooth, and it makes such good, rational sense, that it seems like you built it in from the very beginning.
JB: Yes! Oh, I did. All of it. Word for word, I've got it all laid out. On a scroll.
It was an odd home, for Chicago—a white stucco number with a red tile roof that looked like it had been transplanted from Southern California.
Mortimer Lindquist seemed to have finally given in to the inevitable. I’d seen him with a bad toupee, and with an even worse comb-over, but this was the first time I’d seen him sporting a full-on Charles Xavier. The unbroken shine of his pate looked a lot better than the partial coverage. He’d lost weight, too, since the last I’d seen him. I mean, he wasn’t going to be modeling for Abercrombie & Fitch or anything, but he’d definitely dropped from self-destructively obese down to merely stout.
Mortimer Linquist had done pretty well for himself over the past couple years, and he'd moved out of the little california-import stucco ranch house he'd been in the last time I'd gone to visit him. Now he was working out of a converted duplex in Bucktown.
He was short, twenty of thirty pounds overweight, and had given up trying to conceal his receding hairline in favor of shaving his scalp completely bald.
Thank you for doing this Serack.
Some others I am aware of that might be on the list (mainly minor, and possibly have other explanations):
her [Ivy's] mother commited suicide irrc, does that mean that if she wouldn't have died, then ivy would have been
alive and her mother at the same time ?
wasn't it mentioned that when an archive is born, the previous one dies and powers/knowledge is passed on to the next generation ?
"How did you get this gig?"
"My mother passed it on to me," she replied. "As I was born, just as she received it when she was born."
"And your mother lets a mercenary drive you around?"
"Certainly not. My mother is dead, wizard." She frowned. "Not dead, technically. But all that she knew and was came into me. She becamse an empty cup. A persistant vegatative state." Her eyes grew a little wistful, distant. "She's free of it. But she certainly isn't alive in the most vital sense."
"I'm sorry," I said.
"I wouldn't know why. I know my mother. And all before her." She put a finger to her temple. "It's all in here."
"Normally, an Archive would have her own lifetime of experience to insulate her against all these other emotions and memories, a baseline to constrast against them."
I suddenly got it. "But Ivy doesn't."
"Ivy doesn't," Luccio agreed. "Her grandmother was killed in a freak accident, an automobile crash, I belive. Her mother was a seventeen-year-old girl who was in love, and pregnant. She hated her mother for dying and cursing her to carry the Archive when she wanted to have her own live-and she hated the child fo rhaving a lifetime of freedom ahead of her. Ivy's mother killed herself rather than carry the Archive."
I started feeling a little sick. "And Ivy knows it."
"She does. Knows it, feels it. She was born knowing exactly what her mother thought and felt about her."
"How could you know this about her..." I frowned, thinking. Then said, "Kincaid. The girl was in love with Kincaid."
"No," Luccio said. "But Kincaid was working for Ivy's grandmother at the time, and the girl confided in him."
Ivy (And Kincaid)
2009 Kansas City Q&A (http://www.archive.org/details/JimButcherTurnCoat) @51:20
Where did you get the idea for the Archive?
I knew I wanted to do "creepy little girl." Because creepy little girls are a great character. But then after I figured out what her powers were and how she would behave, I had to start working out the extended consequences of what that character would be like. Originally she was supposed to be "creepy little girl, ok but why does she get any respect. Ok she knows all this stuff, now she's creepy little girl who knows everything. That's bad. That's scary.
But then she was another character that was only supposed to show up for one book, but wound up being interesting enough and having enough of a vibe with Harry and his latent father impulses to be worth showing up again and again. So she's another one of those characters that sort of out grew what I originally cast her for.
2011 Marscon (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22558.msg1004817.html#msg1004817)
Uh, could Ivy…does the Archive read digital? Or is it only print?
Does the archive read digital, or is it only print? No, she gets it all. Uh, and…yeah, and nobody ever planned for the amount of information that has actually shown up in the past 20 years or so. Uh, so yeah, that’s not a good thing to be throwing on the…the little girl, don’t-have-any-insulation-against-everything-Archive. (Jim chuckles evilly) Like, totally bad timing for that, haha. Uh, I think Ivy would punch me in the nose too
[snip]Kincaid stuff[/snip]
Does Ivy know everything Bob knows?
Man, talk about an obscure question. Probably the vast majority of it, yeah, although Ivy's more oriented toward things that are happening on Earth, and Bob has sources all over. [messing with the microphone] So, I would say it's more an issue of, they have different fields of information available to them. They don't, like, have a comparable database.
So Ivy doesn't get what Bob gets as soon as Bob gets it?
No
- Harry's fifth floor office is on the fourth floor.
Needs expounding
I rarely use the elevator, even though I'm on the fifth floor.
“The explosives are on the fourth floor,” Martin said calmly, “placed all around your office.”
- Kemmler takedown in '45 vs. '61
Hmmm, I don't know the details of this. However Bob did say he was taken down multiple times, so the explenation must show that this doesn't explain it
Evil Bob had been the part of Bob the Skull, which had been in the service of this jerk named Kemmler, who had apparently been killed for good sometime during World War II.
"the White Council hunted him down and wiped out his dusty ass in 1961"
- 429B baker street (not sure if this counts as a discrepency).
huh?
"imported from 429-B Baker Street."
- Confused denarian body count.I actually had a post that did exactly this, but it was purged and I never backed it up :-[. I may recreate it. The jist of it is that you need to either:
I would chalk this up to general confusion... meh, if someone thinks it's important than they should write it up :)
- Minor practitioner body-count in WN (AKA "the Skavis only got 1").
Not familar with it
Is "imported from 429-B Baker Street."
Supposed to be a Sherlock Holmes reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/221B_Baker_Street)?
If so, you might have hosed your correction a little, since apparently it was 221B Baker Street (using googlefoo)
Molly's age can be explained by the fact that some of the early books got published in a different order than written. Priscellie covered this at one time IIRC.
Here is a possibility.
SK: Elaine says that Justin got to her the day she stayed home sick from school, which she says is about 2 weeks before Justin sends "That Demon" (HWWB) after Harry.
GS(click to show/hide)
What do you all think?
"Elaine. We were … both of us were orphans. We got adopted by the same man when we were ten."This was actually a pretty well-accepted fact, in my head, through the series. So there might be other references to it later on, but I wasn't able to find them anywhere.
I hadn’t really been interested in girls yet when I met Elaine. We’d both been twelve...And, also, he's twelve in the Justin flashback later on, when he's doing a magic spell for the first time:
I built up the spell again, slowly, slowly, focusing on it more intently than on anything I’d ever done in my life. And I was nearly thirteen, so that was really saying something.Plus, there's:
How old were Eb and Maggie Sr when they first manifested a talent?
Same age as Harry–around 12 or 13.
Don't have the books in front of me but I am pretty sure that when Harry shot Corpsetaker/Lucio's body in Dead Beat it was to her face while the description of the event in Proven Guilty was Harry shooting her in the back of the head.I am just re-reading DB and Harry says he shot her underneath her cheekbone and she didn't have time to release her Death Curse (then Morgan goes into beast mode and tries to change the number of limbs and heads on Harry's body).
SK Chapter 11:I actually had a post that did exactly this, but it was purged and I never backed it up :-[. I may recreate it. The jist of it is that you need to either:*Shrug.* I'll do it.
1) Assume that there were non-denarian goons at the Shedd.
2) Assume that the denarians brought "spare bodies" to the Shedd.
- Minor practitioner body-count in WN (AKA "the Skavis only got 1").There was a detailed thread on it (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32858.0.html) a couple of days ago, specifically for you. ;D
Not familar with it
"He was best known for World War One... There were about a hundred and fifty years of engineering built into it, and he had his fingers into all kinds of pies. He vanished at the end of hostilities and didn't show up again until he started animating mass graves during
World War Two. Went on rampages out in Eastern Europe, where things were pretty much a nightmare even without his help. Nobody is sure how many people he killed... After what the guy did, the White Council hunted him down and wiped his dusty ass out in 1961... They killed him pretty good. A bunch of times. He'd shown up again after the Wardens had killed him early in the nineteenth century, so they were real careful the second time. And good riddance to the psychotic bastard."
Kemmler had fought the entire White Council in an all-out war. Twice. They killed him seven times over the course of both wars, but it didn’t take until number seven... [he] had apparently been killed for good sometime during World War II.
*Shrug.* I'll do it.Twelve bodies. Eleven coins. The rest of the scene completely ignores the coin that Ivy stamped her foot on after she turned it to ash (Harry just picks her up and runs, leaving it there, I guess), though, so it's not unlikely that Jim forgot about it, or didn't add that little part in until later. For argument's sake, I guess the drowned body might just have been a minion... because, really, how likely is it that one of the uber-tough-and-durable Denarians would be drowned to death? Seriously.
- Urumviel (who is killed by Harry)
- One that Kincaid kills - Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (1/5)
- Another one that Kincaid kills- Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (2/5)
- Another Kincaid kill - Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen (3/5)
- One that Ivy took care of
- Shaggy-Feathers one that Kincaid kills (4/5)
- Obsidian statue one that Kincaid kills (5/5)
- One that Luccio killed (1/2)
- One that Luccio killed (2/2)
- One that Michael/Sanya killed (1/2)
- One that Michael/Sanya killed (2/2)
- Random drowned Denarian
There was a detailed thread on it a couple of days ago, specifically for you.
Thanks!Oh, wow.
As I recall, the issue is even worse if you assume that first guys Kincaid snipes (on screen) are not Varthiel/Ordiel/McKullen. The bodies are right there in front of Tessa, so it seems weird they'd feel the need to point it out.
Also, there's the revealing "Varthiel and Ordiel are down and McKullen is dead". Either McKullen is a "dangerous denarian" (hence using the host name), or that's the name of the goon.
Finally, there's that weird thing about Michael knowing a-priori how many denarians are dead, despite the fact he has the wrong number of bodies and coins. I suppose you could explain that one using "the boss said so".
I didn't even look at the part of the scene where Harry adds the coin from the drowned guy and one of the Kincaid-killed-them guys, without altering the final coin-count at all.
Oh, wow.
I didn't even look at the part of the scene where Harry adds the coin from the drowned guy and one of the Kincaid-killed-them guys, without altering the final coin-count at all.
Yeah, I'm not trying to rationalize this anymore. I'm just going to with my good friend Occam, throw my hands up in the air, and ask the Mighty Jim why he does this to me. ::)
He's so... not detail-oriented. It makes everything so stressful for those of us who make lists and are kinda OCD and tend to over-analyze wayyy too much. It's almost like he's just focusing on the story and plot and characters and silly things like that rather than the miniscule details that almost nobody actually ever catches until read-throughs or even really care about anyway because in all probability they completely lack any actual relevence.
*Sigh.*
I don't know if this is a discrepancy or I just missed something but the talk of weird counting made me think of it so I thought I would bring it up.
In Dead Beat, when Mort does the red ink trick to show where necromancy has been used around the city, Harry clearly lists out seven locations. Then both Mort and Harry say "six" (Harry then concludes that there are six Necromancers in town which I didn't get either but probably is a side issue). Why did both Mort and Harry say six when there when seven locations were just pointed out on the map? As I said, I don't know if it is a discrepancy or if I am just missing something but if I am just missing something please tell me because it is bugging the heck out of me.
I put my finger beside one of the larger red circles. "This is the Forensic Institute. One of them created a zombie there earlier tonight."Yeah, I'd say that the cemetery one is Mavra. But there's no reason for them to get a count of six when there are seven places.
Mort sat up and leaned forward over the map, his eyes glazed with fatigue. He pointed at another bloody dot. "That one. It's the Field Museum."
I traced my finger to another one. "This one is in a pretty tough neighborhood. I think it's an apartment building." I moved on to the next. "A cemetery. And what the hell, at O'Hare?"
Mort shook his head. "The ink's darker than the others. I think that means it's beneath the airport, in Undertown."
"Uh-huh," I said. "That makes sense. Two more. An alley down by Burnham Park, and a sidewalk on Wacker."
"Six," Mort said.
"Six," I agreed.
It's also interesting because this meeting in DB is also where the Mort's haircut discrepancies arose that Serack mentioned earlier. I bet someone could turn this into an awesome conspiracy theory.
I've proposed that there were three other necromancers running around in DB who didn't show up because time-travelling future Harry disposed of them (and had to do so once he found out they were there in order to make sure history happened the way he remembered it), if that counts.
Oh good, a discrepancy theory thread. I've been sitting on one for a while now that I didn't want to spend all on one thread post. It was pointed out to me by my IT Director at work (whom I have converted among many over to the Dresden Files ;)), and he caught it in his first read-through. In my read-through to write this I found another discrepancy (I'll list it after).
In Storm Front, Harry is apparently living in a time warp. (Most likely a typo.)
-Wednesday night, Victor Sells (AKA The Shadowman) uses a ritual curse to kill Jennifer Stanton and Tommy Tomm.
-Bunch of investigating Thursday thru Saturday...
-Late Saturday night, the demon frog attacks and Linda Randall is dead. Harry is called into the scene a short few hours later.
-After leaving the crime scene Harry takes a walk and gets attacked by Gimpy Lawrence and loses some hair. But on Ch16, page 207, "I sort of sagged when he stopped hitting me, and he threw me to the ground. We were at a well-lit gas station, just before midnight on a Friday night, and anything he did was in full view of any cars going by."
-Later in Ch18, Harry walks out of a ruined Varsity after confronting Marcone, "So I walked. It was pretty stupid, in retrospect, walking around Chicago late on a Saturday night."
The other thing I caught on the re-through:
Ch17 page 214-215, "Then I walked back into the parking lot to consider exactly what I had at my disposal. A bracelet on each wrist. A ring. My blasting rod. My staff."
No Mother's amulet? This is the only time in the book and series he has two shield bracelets. Maybe he needed the extra foci at such an early stage in his career?
Yeah, I'd say that the cemetery one is Mavra. But there's no reason for them to get a count of six when there are seven places.
One of the places is the forensic institute and Harry knew there was no necromancer there any longer.
How exactly can Harry rule out a different necromancer going there since he left ?
Maybe he can't, but why would another go there and also use necromancy?
Honestly, I always thought that method of IDing the # of necromancers was shoddy. I think too much emphasis was put on it in the blurb, and never really thought it was worth this much discussion.
Honestly, I always thought that method of IDing the # of necromancers was shoddy. I think too much emphasis was put on it in the blurb, and never really thought it was worth this much discussion.
Here's a possible solution worth considering about the location discrepancy of Harry's office that Knnn pointed out: the bombs were placed beneath Harry's office. This would still satisfy them being "around" his office if they placed them for the entire length and breadth pointing up.
Here's a possible solution worth considering about the location discrepancy of Harry's office that Knnn pointed out: the bombs were placed beneath Harry's office. This would still satisfy them being "around" his office if they placed them for the entire length and breadth pointing up.
Also, I feel like there is something off with the events concerning Lydia in GP, but I can't determine what that is.
It also says that the Rampire offices were on the ninth floor - five floors above Harry's office.
"white for protection"
"blue for defense"
..."white for purity"
I already said that on page 2-ish. :P
We haven't quite pinned down specifically what years these events take place, so let's say "Storm Front" and "Fool Moon" take place in the year 0, and every thing else is either BSF (Before Storm Front) or ASF (After Storm Front).
[/snip]
12 BSF: Molly Carpenter is born, according to WN and beyond. She's suddenly a year too old in WN, and the change is kept consistent for the subsequent stories.
(11 BSF: Molly Carpenter is born, according to DM and PG. She's suddenly a year too old in WN, and the change is kept consistent for the subsequent stories.)
"You're sixteen"
"Seventeen," she said, with sparks of indignation and another thick "s."
"Whatever," I said. "You're a juvenile. You should call your parents."
I stripped the glove off and held it up, in my fingers spread. It didn't look as horrific as it used to, but it was plenty ugly enough to make an impression on a nineteen-year-old girl. "This isn't a goddamn movie, Molly.
Molly's age can be explained by the fact that some of the early books got published in a different order than written. Priscellie covered this at one time IIRC.
You planned out the 20 books and apocalyptic trilogy for the books and how much have you changed now that you have gotten into it?
Not a lot. I changed around the events of Proven Guilty and Dead Beat because Proven Guilty, the part with Molly was originally going to come first and I told my editor, "This one is going to be a little quieter, a little bit more personal than the one before, it's going to be focusing a little bit more on just a couple of people and stuff that's important to Harry." and my editor says, "well, you know, that might not be a good idea for this one." And I'm like "What?" "You might want to have a story that's a little bit bigger" "What?" "You might want to have a story that's a little bit broader and thicker. Something that people can really get their teeth into. Something that's going to be a little heavier and have more weight." I'm like "Wait a minute are you saying I'm going into hard cover?" She's like "That's not what I'm saying... I didn't say that!" Cause it was a surprise for me I suppose. So then I said, "Ok we've gotta go with zombies and ghosts and animated T-Rex for that one then."
Another possible discrepancy is that in Storm Front, Harry feels hopeless because someone got a piece of his hair, yet in Changes, Binder simply shaves his head and dips in the lake, removing all chances of Harry tracking him.
One can get around this by saying that in SF the spell was powered by a lightning storm so maybe that had the ability to target better?
Or he could say he learned a little more after Storm Front from Bob about the rules surrounding hair connections...you know, while writes down his case files after every book. ;)
In the spirit of respect for Jim, and his fans, if you contribute to this reference, please try to do so in a manor that does just that, and that acknoledges that Jim has been able to do a great job of finding creative, cohesive ways to get such discrepancies to work quite well within the world he has created.
"I dropped the coin into the hole. I slipped a steel ring about three inches across around it. I muttered to myself and willed
energy into the ring. The whispering abruptly cut off.
I dumped two buckets of cement into the hole and smoothed it until it was level with the rest of my floor. After that, I
hurried out of the lab and shut the door behind me."
Underneath it lay a foot and a half or so of concrete, and then another heavy metal box, wrapped with its own little circle of wards and spells. Inside the box was a blackened silver coin.
bah.Done. I even found that WoJ I mentioned.
Did you just add all those quotes?
Could you add Ch 7 to the SK quote, ch 30 to the first GS quote, and ch 20 to the last GS quote?
Oh, and your post has been linked to in the OP now :)
This does a better job of following the spirit of this point in my OP than I was capable of while in the mindset of coming up with arguments
Thanks for doing such a great job of keeping our pontificating grounded. ;D
I was re-reading my copy of Dead Beat (Paperback) and on page 403, where Ramirez is telling Harry why he thought to Soulgaze Luccio, his name suddenly changes to Rodriguez...
Change in the details of Lasciel's Prison between when it was made in DM and a description of it in PG:I cant help but notice that others have failed to notice that pouring concrete onto the activated ring encased coin should have broken the circle.
It is possible that Harry dug up the coin with the purpose of reinforcing the prison, but the narration makes me think that he had left it alone ever since he first made it.
I cant help but notice that others have failed to notice that pouring concrete onto the activated ring encased coin should have broken the circle.
unless its been mentioned....
I cant help but notice that others have failed to notice that pouring concrete onto the activated ring encased coin should have broken the circle.
unless its been mentioned....
Another possible discrepancy is that in Storm Front, Harry feels hopeless because someone got a piece of his hair, yet in Changes, Binder simply shaves his head and dips in the lake, removing all chances of Harry tracking him.I'm doing a reread and I just got to this part, so I've some new insight to add here.
One can get around this by saying that in SF the spell was powered by a lightning storm so maybe that had the ability to target better?
??? But doesn't pulling out hair pretty much always take some of the root? How could it not?Hair tears as easily as anything else, You could yank on hair and end up just ripping it in half, rather than ripping it from the root.
I took off my coat and looked around the lab until I located my clawhammer. I picked it up.Found this while listening to the Blood Rites audio book.
Bob's voice gained a hurried, stammering edge. "And while I know that wasn't exactly the mission you
sent me out on, you have to admit that it was really quite a noble purpose that totally supported your
quest to preserve life."
I took a practice swing with the hammer. I took my duster off, folded it, laid it over the table, and tried
again. Much better. I fixed a murderous gaze on the skull on the shelf.
Being a natural born Floridian, the subtleties of layered winter clothing necessary for living in a place like Chicago are rather abstract to me, but it certainly looks like that sequence of events included some implausible redundancies.
I added a link to your post that goes like this:
The repeated coat removal coat removal (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32830.msg1650413.html#msg1650413)
Gates to the spirit world paid absolutely no attention to trivial things like geography - they obeyed laws of imagination, intention, patterned thought. Even if Cowl was back there, he wouldn't be able to open a gate to the same place as mine, because he didn't think like me, feel like me, or share my intent and purpose.
Heck, what about Harry's basement? You've got to assume that anyone stepping into the NN from there had to run into Lea's garden, otherwise what's the point? How about Corpsetaker's NN defences? If a portal opens to a different place depending on which wizard opens it, how can you ever have a single point of defence?
"Those of us who spend any amount of time walking the Ways tend to develop a certain
amount of camaraderie. We would have dinner every so often, compare notes of our walks."...
I feel like there are set doors and paths that can be used on a (semi)consistent basis. Which would explain how Harry's mother's ruby can impart that kind of knowledge. Gatekeeper alludes to something similar in CD:
That's why when Harry pops through a specific alley wall, he gets to Edinburgh. But, like you said, if he randomly opens a way then all bets are off. Also, I thought I remember reading in one of the books some character stating that the ways change over time? Maybe I'm misremembering or thinking of a different series.
- Murphy's P90 that fell into the lake gets found.It's the same P90 that Kincaid gave her in a box of chocolates...engraved plate and all. Its a little thing, but it bugs me everytime Murph uses that gun after Small Favor when she dropped it into the lake after Tessa lashes out at her.
I always thought she just got a new one. Does it still have the engraved plate?
-
It's the same P90 that Kincaid gave her in a box of chocolates...engraved plate and all. Its a little thing, but it bugs me everytime Murph uses that gun after Small Favor when she dropped it into the lake after Tessa lashes out at her.
I wish I knew how she got it back. In one short story, Harry talks about getting paid for finding something lost in the lake. It wasn't Murphy's gun, but I keep hoping for a line in some short story or book that explains how Murph got her P90 back....perhaps Harry found it for her since he's good at locating things.
It's probably just something that got lost in all the writing and editing...but I still wish Jim would give an explanation....it'd be kinda of cute...even though Harry was jealous of Kincaid he still found Murphy's P90 back out of the lake for her.
Maybe Kincaid got her the inside line on getting the good stuff rather than the civilian versions of stuff like this, so she wouldn't have had trouble replacing it her own self.
Wellll, no maybe about it. ;)
although she could/would replace it herself...unlikely she'd redo the engraving. She's a practical girl. I will pretend JB intended to tells us how Harry found it for her shortly after....but the editors deleted that part out of a story.. :-X
Jerry paused for a moment, and then said, "Dr. Ortega, welcome to the show. You have a reputation as one of the premier analysts of paranormal phenomena in the world. You have proven that a wide variety of so-called supernatural occurrences were actually clever hoaxes. Can you tell us a little about that?"
And purely for the sake of a complete reference, Larry Fowler's name changes to Jerry for one line in the scene in Death Masks, at least in my copy (its possible that they would have wanted to change this in later printings):
"We got adopted by the same man when we were ten.
"My fist time..." [/snip] It was maybe two weeks before Justin adopted me," I said. "I was in school and small. All elbows and ears. Hadn't hit my growth spurt yet, and it was spring
The memory of my first shielding lesson under Justin DuMorne wasn't a particularly sentimental one. "Baseballs."
Merciful God," Charity said, shaking her head. "How old were you?"
"Thirteen."
I broke the Iowa state high school long-jump record [/snip] I hadn't even gotten serious about puberty yet.
And I was nearly thirteen, so that was really saying something.
[/snip]
"Flickum bicus!"
I hadn't really been interested in girls yet when I met Elaine. We'd both been twelve, bright and stubborn"
How old were Eb and Maggie Sr when they first manifested a talent?
Same age as Harry–around 12 or 13.
I believe there was also a WoJ about the "Demonreach disintegration wall destroying Harry's amulet" problem in CD. I'll try and find it.
Rasins: I've got a couple of questions, the first one has to do with Harry’s amulet.
Jim: Okay, yes, Harry’s amulet, right.
Rasins: We saw it at the birthday party and never again….did it survive the circle on Demonreach?
Jim:Oh yes.
Rasins: Was it taken off and in his pocket?
Jim: I believe it was, it was with his gear right, he took it off and handed it to Michael and didn't I specifically mention it?
Rasins: You mentioned that he took his coat off but not the amulet.
Jim: Okay yeah, no but it had to have gone with the coat, although although if that wasn't written, that was an oversight during the editing process, which was a little rushed. I think the post-production on that was, from start to finish, I think it was 15 days, so there was a lot of back and forth and a lot of me not sleeping during the process.
*Audience laughter*
Here you go.
- Harry's fifth floor office is on the fourth floor.This is actually quite easy to explain if you assume Martin was British or from any Commonwealth nation initially or indeed if he was simply was educated in one of these countries.
Another possible discrepancy:
In Bombshells, Molly notes Justine using that "Little White Card" to rack up considerable expense buying clothes for the assault team, yet when Thomas hands her the card in Cold Days, she doesn't seem to recognize it.
Molly didn't use Justine's card herself, only saw Justine handling it. One possibility is that, in Bombshells Molly thought it was an ordinary credit card. In CD, she got to take a closer look and learned exactly what it was.
Thomas snorted and slipped a white plastic card out of his pocket. It was utterly unmarked except for a few stamped numbers and a magnetic strip. He flicked it across the table to Molly. “When you get your pizza, have them run that.”
Molly studied the card, back and front. “Is this a Diners Club card or something?”
Or, it's a mistake on JB'S part.
Maybe.
The problem is that it's not "path to Edinburgh", it's "a couple of steps from a path in the NN that happens to lead to one of the NN connections to the entrance to Edinburgh". This doesn't sound quote like a localized area.
Now maybe you can still argue that somehow the intent to get to Edinburgh is enough? That puts a lot of faith in the AI (for the lack of a better word) of spell to bring you exactly to where you desire. This seems a lot more subtle than what you usually get for instant, evocation-like spells.
Like I said. Maybe.
How about another example?
In White Night, Harry opens up a NN portal and Thomas just happens to be standing outside. Now maybe Thomas found one of those point where the NN touches, but how did Harry know exactly where to open the portal or which exact idea would bring Thomas? Again, you can argue that Harry happened to have Thomas in his mind, so the spell automatically figured out where a White Court vampire would end up yada, yada, but that seems way more advanced than what the text seems to be implying.
IIRC Harry said that Thomas should have been able to open the portal between the NeverNever because he had an emotional, though negative, connection to it. If Harry had somehow signaled Thomas who then opened the Portal, that might have made more sense. But maybe it was enough that Thomas knew where to go, where the portal would appear while Harry had an image in his mind of Thomas standing there waiting fir him.
IIRC Harry said that Thomas should have been able to open the portal between the NeverNever because he had an emotional, though negative, connection to it. If Harry had somehow signaled Thomas who then opened the Portal, that might have made more sense. But maybe it was enough that Thomas knew where to go, where the portal would appear while Harry had an image in his mind of Thomas standing there waiting fir him.
Or one of the place's many connections, connected to Thomas who had had a negative experience there. Harry opened a portal to "Thomas" for lack of a better word. Thomas was standing by to cross over using the same connection.
Yup, GP establishes that Thomas can open portals in certain places.
The timing had to be in Harry's control, so I guess he thought doing it himself would be easier/faster. Harry having an image of Thomas in mind means that you have to posit that the portal spell can also link to dynamic targets on the fly. That spell is now becoming *really* versatile.
You can still find enough wiggle room to make it all plausible, but...
Maybe.
But then why did Thomas have to go anywhere? Opening a portal to "Thomas" should work no matter where Thomas is standing in the Nevernever.
Then you have the implications. Why should it only work on Thomas? If Marcone was in the NN, would Harry be able to open a portal from Demonreach directly to Marcone? After all, he had similar traumatic experience there. How about opening a portal from the place on the island where Molly became the Winter Lady directly to Molly?
So, I had it backwards. Harry didn't have to do much. Thomas was the one who lead Marcone and Karrin and company to the exact spot where he knew the portal would appear.
Yes, I think so. That seems correct. At least based on my theory. Which is just a theory. They would have to be in the NN though for the protal to be created.
Well then, why couldn't Harry follow Peabody by opening a portal in the same place Peabody did and specify "I wanna follow Peabody"?
Personally I though Thomas's Wayfaring ability was less a matter of him opening portals directly to his target, and more that once he was in the NN he was able to sense where he needed to travel (in the NN) to be able to open a way back. Essentially his traumatic personal experience (or the locations that resonate with his Hunger, the other criteria he can use) acts as a link the Hunger can follow basically just like harry's tracking spells operate
Yeah, nothing states that Thomas can't open a portal anywhere. As far as I know doesn't know where in the NN he will end up. Only that, once inside he can find his way back out.
Thomas also refers to it as crossing over--he might not be able to open a full-blown rift capable of transporting more than one or two people at a time. I wouldn't be surprised if he was limited to just transitioning himself and maybe one or two people he's in physical contact with, without a "portal" opening at all.
"Thomas," I said. "He's a vampire, and they have the ability to cross into the Nevernever at certain places."
"What kind of places?" Molly asked.
"Places that are, ah," I said, "important to them. Relevant to them in a particular way."
"Places of lust, you mean," Molly said.
I coughed and ate more cereal. "Yeah. And places where significant things have happened to them. In Thomas's case, he was nearly sacrificed by a cult of porn-star sorceresses in those caves a few years a—"
"I'm sorry," Molly said, interrupting. "But it sounded like you said 'cult of porn-star sorceresses.'"
"Yeah," I said.
"Oh," she said, giving me a skeptical look. "Sorry, then. Keep going."
"Anyway. He nearly died there, so I knew he could find it again. He led Marcone and Murphy there, and they were camped out, waiting for me to open a gate."
Sounds about right. Though Im still curious if he could open a way to that strip club because it was a place of Lust, or because it was Club Zero and thus was where he met Justine.I don't think Thomas would refer to Club Zero as a "gentleman's club" and "one of the finest in town." Not with anything like a straight face, anyway.
I don't think Thomas would refer to Club Zero as a "gentleman's club" and "one of the finest in town." Not with anything like a straight face, anyway.
I don't think Thomas would refer to Club Zero as a "gentleman's club" and "one of the finest in town." Not with anything like a straight face, anyway.Keep in mind this was way before BR, when he was still playing the Clueless Fop. And Michael's description was a "fleshpit" and a "A house of sin!" And from a certain perspective Club Zero is the finest in town, in the sense that it is the pinnacle of its particular purpose.
Keep in mind this was way before BR, when he was still playing the Clueless Fop. And Michael's description was a "fleshpit" and a "A house of sin!" And from a certain perspective Club Zero is the finest in town, in the sense that it is the pinnacle of its particular purpose.Michael would probably have described any strip club as a fleshpit and a house of sin. And Thomas would be hard pressed to misrepresent just what Club Zero was when Michael was right there with him. Club Zero is kind of, well, obvious, and there's no way even Thomas could call it a "gentleman's club."
Michael would probably have described any strip club as a fleshpit and a house of sin. And Thomas would be hard pressed to misrepresent just what Club Zero was when Michael was right there with him. Club Zero is kind of, well, obvious, and there's no way even Thomas could call it a "gentleman's club."And thats the crux of it: Catholic raised Michael would see any such club as an extreme of sin, while White Court raised Thomas in on the other extreme of the spectrum, and by his families standards it is just another fetish club (if an exclusive one). I dont think there would be any "misrepresenting", just differing definitions and/or degrees of familiarity.
The only reason I would say it might be Club Zero is because you are otherwise granting what appears to be a *lot* of power to White Court vampire. Consider that every major city has numerous "houses of sin", and for a White Court vampire to be able to detect a portal to any of those means practically instant transportation to any city in the world -- *way* better than anything the White Council apparently has.
Heck, Chichen Itza has a small town/village maybe 2 miles away (Pisté) that includes multiple hotels (catering to tourists) -- I'd expect "massage services" to be available. There is also an actual city (Valladolid) is 20 miles away. Sure it's further away than the 5 miles Harry gets to, but there is a direct road to CI from either of those places. This means you can commandeer a vehicle -- can always circle around once you get close.
So why didn't Harry ask for Thomas to find the portal?
And thats the crux of it: Catholic raised Michael would see any such club as an extreme of sin, while White Court raised Thomas in on the other extreme of the spectrum, and by his families standards it is just another fetish club (if an exclusive one). I dont think there would be any "misrepresenting", just differing definitions and/or degrees of familiarity.An exclusive fetish club is pretty far from what anyone would consider a "gentleman's club," even the White Court's. It just doesn't fit what you would describe as one, and besides, Thomas's family's standards aren't really his standards. Also, it just doesn't make sense for Thomas to bring Michael to Club Zero. He's trying to stay on Michael's good side, or at least on his 'don't smite me' side--bringing Michael into what is basically a feeding ground for the White Court is just a bad idea.
The only reason I would say it might be Club Zero is because you are otherwise granting what appears to be a *lot* of power to White Court vampire. Consider that every major city has numerous "houses of sin", and for a White Court vampire to be able to detect a portal to any of those means practically instant transportation to any city in the world -- *way* better than anything the White Council apparently has.Thomas says he can cross over into places close to his heart, and Harry says he can find the Deeps because of what happened to Thomas personally. So, presumably, he is limited to strip clubs and such that he has personally been to and is associated with.
Another note/ thought.
In Cold Days Bob does the whole movie thing with Merlin and the formation of the island.
What if wasn't just across multiple times - what if the discrepancy is on Bob's part and it was across time and dimensions --multiple overlapping dimensions.
Interesting, although I wouldn't call that a discrepancy... I don't see where it contradicts anything. Maybe you could start your own topic on it. Or include it in the knnn's recent discussion about discrepancies and the MM book.which thread is that one? eh figured it was borderline cause if the vid showed him showing himself in time but was in fact parallel realities.. anyways. just point me to the other thread..
Another note/ thought.If Im not mistaken Bob himself speculated at that point that it was Built in 4 dimansions, and most likely built in 5 or more (which means multiple/parallel dimension by normal Sci-fi parlance) but that it was difficult to tell that sort of thing without actually entering a 5th dimansional state and measuring them. So yes it seems likely, but I dont see a contraction...?
In Cold Days Bob does the whole movie thing with Merlin and the formation of the island.
What if wasn't just across multiple times - what if the discrepancy is on Bob's part and it was across time and dimensions --multiple overlapping dimensions.
“Merlin didn’t build the prison five times,” Bob said. “He built it once. In five different times. All at the same time.”
I felt my brows knit. “Uh. He was in the same place, doing the same thing, in five different times at once?”
“Exactly.”
“That does not make any sense,” I said.
“Look, a mortal jail is built in three dimensions, right? Merlin built this one in four, and probably in several more, though you can’t really tell whether or not he built it in a given dimension until you go there and measure it, and the act of measuring it will change it, but the point is: This is really advanced stuff.”
It has to be someplace Thomas has visited before, regularly and is familiar with. Or someplace, like the deeps, that he holds a strong emotional connection to.Just wanted to add, Thomas met Justine at Club Zero so that would put that place on a strong emotional connection.
Just wanted to add, Thomas met Justine at Club Zero so that would put that place on a strong emotional connection.
I cant help but notice that others have failed to notice that pouring concrete onto the activated ring encased coin should have broken the circle.
Inanimate matter penetrating an empowered circle can only break it if the individual who applies that matter wills it to do so. We saw that way back in the first book's introduction of magic circles, when Harry empowered the faerie trap, then laid leaves and twigs over it so Toot-toot wouldn't see it. So long as Harry doesn't will the twigs and leaves, or the wet cement, to disrupt a circle, he can dump stuff on it all day long without a problem.Close but not quite. The person doesnt have to consciously Will it, they just have to have Free Will to do it. So Toot or Bob cannot break the circle (which is why Bob was able to toss harry a potion through a circle in SF. However if he accidentally knocks something over the circle that is, in Uriel's words, "A Fair Ball." That is supposedly one of the most common amateur mistakes young summoners make, and why harry always so careful cleans the area around the circle before he attempts summoning. Its also apparently why Cats are so common as pets for practitioners, because for reasons unknown they can freely cross Circles without disrupting them.
Close but not quite. The person doesnt have to consciously Will it, they just have to have Free Will to do it. So Toot or Bob cannot break the circle (which is why Bob was able to toss harry a potion through a circle in SF). However if he accidentally knocks something over the circle that is, in Uriel's words, "A Fair Ball." That is supposedly one of the most common amateur mistakes young summoners make, and why harry always so careful cleans the area around the circle before he attempts summoning.
Yeah, I'd say that the cemetery one is Mavra. But there's no reason for them to get a count of six when there are seven places.
Certainly. Kemmler stuff, take two:
Those two accounts seem fairly different, don't you think? I mean, I wouldn't consider 1961 as being even close to "during" WW2, as has been pointed out.
Incidentally, does anyone know what happened to Harry's shield bracelet or rings in Changes? He's not wearing them at the end, but I don't recall him ever mentioning them being destroyed or lost.Bottom of the lake?
If he had the rings, he wouldn't of carved the extra runes in his staff.I don't think the bear buckle is a real loose end; Harry just didn't want to use the buckle again, because when it wore off that first and only time he used it, it made him crash harder than he'd anticipated, leaving him in a very vulnerable position. It simply wasn't worth it. I know that Jim's mentioned this before; he's also mentioned that - from a writer's standpoint - he didn't really want to be leaning on the buckle, because it could easily become a deus ex machina. I'm fairly certain that it was a conscious decision not to use it again, rather than a discrepancy.
I guess we won't see the rings again till mirror, mirror - where hopefully we find out the fates of little chicago, the bear buckle, the rings, and the sword cane.
dangit, apparently I didn't hit post when I wrote it earlier, but...
While going through Skin Game I missed this minor disparity:
at the beginning of Chapter 20 of Small Favor, Harry asks Michael how Murphy is doing after getting hit by a ball from a shotgun blast and Michael differs to Charity's wisdom since she is the one with "medical training"
In Chapter 20 of Skin Game, Michael explains that he is able to diagnose a "radial fracture" of Harry's arm because of his training as a Corpsman while in the service.
True. I missed that! Though it's possible that his medical training isn't as extensive as hers. Where did she get hers from? She's not a doctor. And he must not have been a Dr. in the service either, since no one calls him by the title. Maybe his knowledge is limited to more common battlefield injuries?
A Corpsman, if serving with the Marines, is the equivalent of an Army Medic.That was a gunshot, which can have internal "nicks" and whatnot, small-scale damage that cant be seen. A "Radial Fracture" is essentially just a fancy way to say broken forearm (ie a break of the Raduis bone). Theoretically /I/ could diagnose that, even if Id be too squeamish to try and set it.
Being able to diagnose a "radial fracture" without an x-ray seems to me to be at odds with not being able to judge the severity of Murphy's injury in Small Favor.